Was at the range this afternoon, since we had a break for a day from the rain.... and was zeroing a new scope on my Ruger 77/17...

after zeroing it with the standard 17 gr V Max, I also tested points of impact and accuracy at 100 yds with several different types of 17 HMR ammo I had...

First of all, don't waste your time on the 20 grain TNT bullet.. evidently that is intended for hand guns... a blind kid with a sling shot could have gotten better groups at 100 yds than my Ruger did...

point of impact of 20 grain bullets ( several types) was pretty much the same as the 17 gr V Max at 100 yds... both bullet weights giving groups that could be covered by a quarter...

The last one I tried, from both Hornady and Winchester manufacture, was the 15.5 grain NTX bullet, which is a lead free bullet... Point of impact was about 1/2 an inch or less to the left of the 17 and 20 grain bullets...

but the group size of both the Hornady and Winchester ammo was HALF that of the 17 grain V Max....and don't know the reason, but the Winchester lead free is actually cheaper at my local store than the regular 17 V Max loads from Winchester, which run less than they charge for Hornady branded ammo...

the Win 15.5 NTX load was $10.79 per box of 50... Hornady and CCI usually charge more for the lead free bullets...

so thought I'd pass this along to my fellow campfire members... see if your results are any different...

same results occurred in my Marlin.... and my NEF single shot will shoot ANY HMR ammo more accurate than any of the bolt actions I have had... so it doesn't count...

My CZ likes the Hornady 20 gr HP and the CCI 16 gr "Green" ammo the best. It will shoot them an inch or under at 100 yards, while the 17 gr stuff opens up to 2 or 3 inches. This is my second CZ as the first one had a headspace problem, was retunred to CZ and they replaced it with the one I currently have. The first one shot the 17 gr Hornady ammo very well and did not like the 20 gr...go figure.

I haven;t tried and 15.5 gr NTX round.

Hornady

Seafire: Years ago (spring of 2,003!) I tested different brands of 17 HMR ammo in my then brand new Ruger 77/17 V/T.
The Remington ammo (17 grain Accu-Tip) was THE more accurate in my Rifle (by just a tad/skosh). And I used that ammo exclusively up until 2,011 when Remington ammo became MORE expensive and harder to find and I chose to switch to the Hornady 17 grain V-Max's - as they were much easier to find on the retail market and also quite accurate in my now 3 guns in 17 HMR caliber.
I have, along the way, tried various ammunition made by Browning, C.C.I., Winchester and Federal if I recall correctly - and in various grain weights and bullet styles - I have not yet (but will!) try those Winchester 15.5 grainers you tried.
My NEF 17 HMR is also surprisingly accurate for as humble (cheap!) a Rilfe as it is!
My Ruger 77/17 V/T has shot test groups (5 shots at 100 yards!) as small as .502" - and that is simply outstanding accuracy for a rimfire of ANY caliber or of ANY manufacture!
Have you tried the Winchester 15.5 grainer on Varmints or small game as yet?
Come on spring.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

While a lot of people believe CCI, Federal, Hornady or Remington ammo is most accurate in their .17 HMR, all those "brands" are made by CCI, using the same powder, cases, and bullets. The only difference, for instance, in the Remington "Accu-Tip" and the Hornady "V-Max" bullets is the color of the plastic tip, since both are Hornady V-Maxes. Consequently any difference in accuracy is due to the lot-to-lot differences typical in rimfire ammunition--which means the next time you buy a certain "brand" among those four because it shot better, you'll probably get a different manufacturing lot, which may or may not be as accurate.

Winchester does make their own .17 HMR ammo, so any difference in accuracy may be valid--though it's still rimfire ammo, and tiny variations in manufacturing can result in accuracy changes.

Calif. Hunter: I have NEVER owned a CZ Rifle and for personal reasons can not safely own one.
But I have at least 20 friends and fellow Varmint Hunters who do own them.
I admire their accuracy and reliability but as in all firearm lines they are NOT perfect - I have two friends who had to return their rimfire CZ's to the manufacture for replacement.
One was returned two years ago becuase of a horrifically scarred barrel (internally) - my retired gunsmith friend who bought this Rifle has a Hawkeye Borescope. The 17 MachII heavy barreled CZ he bought was brand new and had a completely pitted and scarred barrel - my friend deduced that the barrel had been blued and either not plugged properly or not cleaned properly after bluing (or both things!) he did not even shoot the Rifle before returning it.
He bought it "mail-order" style.
CZ promptly REPLACED the Rifle for him though!
Sadly they had quit making Rifles in 17 MachII and gave him his choice of ANY rimfire CZ they still made.
My friend chose a 17 HMR for replacement.
By the way he already had a CZ heavy barrel Rifle in the 17 MachII caliber and he was so thrilled with the accuracy of that Rifle he wanted another.
I saw him shoot a group (5 shots at 100 yards!) measuring just under 1/3 of an inch with his first CZ 17 MachII!
To this day that is the best group I have ever seen made with a rimfire Rifle at 100 yards.
Anyway we were sad to see that second CZ had been sent out of the factory with such a glaring deficiency!
I forget the particulars on my other friends CZ but it was replaced with another 17 HMR that more than made him happy.
No one is perfect and that goes for firearms manufactures as well I guess.
That 16 grain C.C.I. ammo is another offering I have not tried as yet.
Every Rifle is an individual "they say"!
And yours is different from my firends CZ 17's as most all of them use the Hornady 17 grainers for excellent accuracy!
Yep, you are EXACTLY right when you say "go figure".
Enjoy your CZ.
I often wish I could safely own one.
They are cool little guns.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Seafire John,
I'm pretty new to the HMR, and my only rifle in .17 HMR is a Ruger 96. It took me a while to find one ($350 ) My "need" for one was to clear the diggers off my property, without undue sharing of the projectiles with my neighbors. It was a noble and wholly worthwhile thought process. But alas, as it turns out, a Marlin 57M in 22 magnum facilitated their extinction before I could locate my preference in a .17. No neighbors braying about tinkling on the roof, so I guess we're good.

Marty and I slayed desert bunnies this winter with various rifles, but the little .17 HMR in the Ruger lever action platform is THE TICKET for busting running Jacks! Whew!

Like most gun cranks, I've used jackrabbits as testing medium for all of my small caliber rifles with great elation and glee. I speak only for myself and not the bunnies on that topic!!
A custom .17 Ackley Hornet I built years ago on an Anschutz action absolutely murdered small animals, with body parts such as ears and legs normally finding their way off the poor critters as often as not. But, as my affinity for lever actions blossomed around a wonderful Savage 99 in .375 Winchester, which I still own by the way, the sleek little .17 bolt gun went looking for greener pastures full of pups.
Many other 224 centerfires came and went for the purposes of general fauna mayhem, with the Sako Vixen Fireball finding a permanent and unshakable place in the desert gun stable. But it mostly sees coyote duty.

The .17 HMR ammo available to me locally was the CCI 17 gr V-Max. I don't remember the group size while sighting in initially, but I remember thinking I could do a bunny in the eye or surrounding tissue at 80 yards, no problemo. Perhaps I should try some of this super duper ammo mentioned in this thread and see what they old lever gun will really do...

One things for sure, while diminutive in stature, the HMR is ginormous in fun value, outsized in effectiveness, and downright practical in close proximity work, which so many find themselves concerned with nowadays. I look forward to testing more of the variety of ammo available, if I can convince myself my little Ruger 96 package needs improving on. I could benefit from a scope upgrade in the future, perhaps I should start there in the accuracy quest.

I would love to check out a Ruger 96 in .17HMR. My Win 9422M sure surprised me with its accuracy,out-shooting my bolt guns by a large margin.

Varmint Guy - I really want my CZ to shoot the 17 gr Hornady ammo - it is easier to find and usually less expensive, plus I can usually borrow some from my buddies while out in the field if I run short. Not so many people shoot the 20 gr Hornady HPs...but the rifle just loves the 20 gr - dramatically. As in 1/3 or less of the groups I get with the 17 gr ammo.

My "very old" Marlin 17V (first production batch, most likely) shoots the Hornady 17Vmax load like it as made for it (it WAS!), I've even squeaked out a .25" group with it, once! but normally, it's a .6" load.
I also have a CZ 455 (unlike VG, I AM smart enough to master another safety type) which favors the 20gr. Hornady load, but not by much.
I previously had an "early batch" Savage 93R17 that shot EVERYTHING well (3/4"), but I had a buddy without an HMR so I gifted it to him.

Giving a friend a gun... Now that's a true sportsman

My NEF shoots Hornady 17grain Vmax into 1" or less for 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Good enough for me so I have not tried other loads.

not a "me to" scenario... but back in the old days of pre Rem Marlin, I bought a Heavy Barrel 22 Mag Marlin.... the accuracy in this thing really really sucked....

so I took the stock off of it, and boxed the barrel and action up along with a few targets and sent it back to Marlin...

They called me up a week later and told me that they were going to replace the rifle... I responded that I had picked up a new replacement already that was a Marlin and it was as accurate as I could expect...

so I didn't need that rifle back... but if they could, I'd be happy to work out a price to have it converted or given a 17 HMR barrel.. there was a handicapped woman who was a friend of my wife, who loved to shoot and she would give anything for a 17 HMR... so I told them I'd like to pay them for a new 17 barrel on the action, so I could give it to Kathy...

evidently they were impressed with that gesture... I received the gun back in a week... not only was there a heavy 17 caliber barrel on it, they had put a custom laminate stock on it ( I had kept the old stock, just to save on shipping cost and be able to fit the action and barrel in a shorter box, instead of having to go find a larger one)...

They also supplied a set of Weaver Stainless rings for it, and then had sent me a copy photo of the targets they had tuned the rifle for....

I was taken aback by such a quick turn around, along with all the extra work they had done for me...

there was no bill in the box... so I called them up and asked how much did I owe them for all the extra work....

to my surprise, they told me that they were so impressed with my generosity to someone wanting a rifle, so I was willing to pay to have that one fixed up so I could give it to a handicapped person....

so they gave it a 'select' hand picked barrel, put a custom non factory available stock on it and tossed in the rings...

and then told me there was no charge and to give it to Kathy with their blessings and compliments.....

what a class bunch of guys! too bad they were sold to Remington...

So Roy.. in the near future you interested in taking a Klamath Safari, and go over and start the season early?

I can call a few ranches and get an idea when they will be out and running... early March is time for the first of them to start coming out...

as far as ammo, BiMart has been a real good source of ammo for me lately for the 17...it has had that lower cost Winchester ammo in stock as of late...picked up several boxes of that 15.5 gr NTX ammo for $10.79 a box...

they have also had the 20 grain HPs, and 17 V Max in stock over there under the Winchester and Hornady boxes...

John, PM me. I am obligated pretty heavy for the next few weekends due to family birthdays, church man camp (bring guns!), and mushroom hunting the last weekend of the month. Then bear season starts sometime in April. You get a spring bear tag? Got plenty of time to get a bear if I want, so could go in April... Weekdays are no problem until I start working hot and heavy....

Thanks, but he's a heckuva good guy, and he's done the same for me, a time or two, also. We swap a lot of shooting stuff back and forth between us.

I was talking to a line worker from CCI and he also stated, as did Mule Deer, the only difference between any plastic tipped HMR ammo was the letter on the rim and the color of the tip.
I used ALOT of the game point CCI. It works well even at 2375.
I have lots of Hornady too, but I got a whole crap load of the game point, cheap.
As in real cheap, from a "friend".

Jim?

Darrel.






Thanks for asking.

Hornady is the most accurate in my 17 HMR's because it is the only brand i use , never tried the others .

My Anschutz 1717 Clsssic shoots tightest groups (.2") with CCI 17 gr. HMR TNT ammo. This round uses a 17 gr. Speer TNT HP bullet, not a plastic tipped projectile.

This gun will shoot polymer tipped rounds into half inch or better, just not quarter inch. Winchester Supreme grouped tighter than CCI manufactured tipped ammo, regardless of the color of the box.

My Annie evidently doesn't like plastic...

DF

You can't copy this unless you own an Annie. Only owners can use the word Annie. Yea, if your Annie is shooting .5" then it has to be the ammo. Just say'n

Winchester

DF,

How many bullets per group?

The reason I ask is on the first near-windless day I shot my CZ 452 back in 2003, the initial group at 100 yards was with the 17-grain CCI/Speer TNT load, and measured .24"--but was only 3 shots.

That impressed me, but the next group was shot with the 17 V-Max Hornady load, and the first 4 went into exactly half an inch, with the 5th shot a "flier" to make the final group 3/4".

Haven't shot another paper group with the 17 TNT load since then, though have killed quite a few varmints with it. I have far more faith in 5-shot groups as a real measure of a rifle's accuracy than 3-shot anymore, but also know benchrest shooters use hollow-point bullets instead of plastic-tips!

Anything with a 17 grain plastic tip bullet.

I find that the Anschutz, Marlins, Savages, and GM barreled Savage are pretty insensitive to ammo brand/lot changes, while the Ruger 10/22 Magnum conversions seems to be VERY lot sensitive.

Not required to shoot unleaded, yet, and have .22 Magnums to shoot anything I'd probably want to shoot with a 20 grain 17 HMR bullet.

Unlike the 17HM2, Eley never made 17HMR, so there wasn't anything to miss when it was gone.

Jeff

When the 17's came out in the 90s,I jumped on the 17 bandwagon also.

After shooting several yotes with it, I sold it to a buddy. Went back shooting them with the 22mag. It did a better job.

Yea, the first time I took out the HMR.17 hunting, it worked good on little squirrels but when I shot a big jack rabbit it took two shots to get him to drop, the first shot he just shook his big ears at me so when I looked at the shots were about a inch apart... I then purchased the .22 mag and been happy ever since.

Yea, that's my feeling. The 17 is too destructive on the small critters and not enough "smack" for the larger critters. But you know, it takes a lot of shooting/killing to prove this to some people. Here again, I am just reporting real world experience, lots of it.

There is one use for a 17 I can think of. If, and I mean if, you are the kind that is hell bent on shooting crows in a relatively populated rural area. Sending a 17gr or 20gr up in the air is not as bad.

Before somebody say's something. The 17's ricochet just as bad as a 22mag's. They all ricochet.

Yea, and I like eating the squirrels I shoot, so unless you do head shots its a waste.

The 17HMR came out when Hodgdon introduced Lil'gun powder to the public and ammo manufactures. It was now capable to design a cartridge with the desirable specifications and keep the pressures where they needed it using a rimfire case. That's when the CCI Velocitor came out also. Now the Velocitor is a great cartridge.

Three, of course.

Why mess up a good group with four or five shots...

DF

Well, yeah!

But then, why mess up a perfect group with more than one shot?

I hear ya.

But when ya got three almost touching, just hard to touch off another.

Just too purdy to mess up...

DF

Of course!

Tell him Hi for me!

To update this thread, here's a photo of my Annie 1717 and the CCI TNT three shot 100 yd. group.

DF

Gee! I only measured the first 3-shot 100-yard group out of my CZ to two places and it was .24". Maybe we'll have to have a shoot-off someday....

Ha!

That would be fun. Five shot groups...?

DF

Sure.

Aggregate of multiple loads?

My Annie doesn't like some of the plastic tipped .17's. It liked the Winchester Supreme (.340") not so much the Hornady stuff, some groups going 3/4" to 1".

So, unless we have a still Louisiana day and a windy Montana day, this Annie and I could get multiple load aggregate embarrasssed...

DF

I had the same experience out of my Annies and now cannot find the TNT. Sold both Annies but willing to try one again. Have a CZ.

I shot some CCI vmax ammo today out of my CZ 17hmr and it shot lights out. I have not been able to find any consistent 17hmr ammo. Thought that the TNT was probably the best available. Did not expect this box to shoot as well as it did. I thought the gun was not capable of how it shot today. Shot 10 5 shot groups @ 50y that were all good with nary a flier. One group was a ragged hole. Largest was probably .4 ctc.

Every CZ bore I've look at thru the Hawkeye is visually comparable to aftermarket tubes. The lands seem to be tapered sorta like a Broughton 5C or similar, not 90* sharp edges like most bores. And, there are NO machine marks at all, super slick.

I've heard some good stuff about CZ rimfire accuracy and was wondering how a top CZ would stack up against a 54 series Annie, or equivalent .22 WMR/.17 HMR.

DF

I have owned a 455 CZ 22lr and it did not shoot as well as my 2 54 action Anschutz sporters. I did not try a bunch of ammo but with same ammo it shot about .2" larger groups than my Annie sporters. I owned a 64 and 54 17hmr Anschutz. Neither shot any better than my CZ. Once again I did not do an exhaustive ammo trial on any of them. Bought a 64 action Anschutz for a buddy and it shot amazingly with vmax ammo. Trying to figure out how to get that gun back gracefully.