A friend of mine shot my CZ452 American and really liked it. Today I got a text from him and he is wanting to purchase his first gun. His budget is limited to $2-300.
I have mentioned of course the CZ 452/455. I know he will not change barrels ever, so a 452 makes more sense (though harder to get). He is also not a loony yet, so I think a trainer may be the best best as far as staying with CZ. No plans for competing or hunting, just plain plinking and fun.
I have heard really good things about the Mark II, Ruger Rimfires, Marlin... as fun as it is to spend someone else's money, maxing out at $300 doesn't give a lot of options for a new CZ. Specially if looking to get scope and rings.
Am I wrong to think a Savage MarkII will get him in the game?

An American.



Travis

CZ American or RAR?

Sorry. The Ruger.

I would vote CZ but finding one at that price could take a while.




Travis

Yes, that's my concern...
On the bright side I got my DIP 25MOA rail and some 30mm Weaver QD meds on the mail this week.

Will put 6MQ atop my maple stocked 452 this weekend hopefully.

Pablo,

Tell him to go get a Ruger American Rimfire. A Compact model # 8306 (threaded for a suppressor), 12.5" LOP, with a fixed 8x Leupold Scope, shot into 3/8" @ 50 yards across the hood of my tractor about a month ago, using CCI Standard Velocity 40 RN.

I think my LGS was asking $299.00 for the rifle.

The full size is Model # 8305 and has a 13.75" length of pull, more suitable for grown ups.

Adjustable trigger, uses 10/22 magazines, fiber-optic sights, and two buttstock options, one for iron sight use and the other is slightly raised for scope use.

Ed

Getting ready for the "Enemy At The Gates" match?

Ed

Ed, you're going to make me buy one of those!!!!
Re: Enemy at the gates (Stalingrad)
We shot it at 50m fixed distance, prone, no support, no slings, etc.
Doubt you need repeatable clicks and 25MOA rail for that, although it shouldn't hurt. However, we can add some variety and make a field course at different undisclaimed distances between say 12m-100m, sort of a military silhouette instead of a chick/ram/turkey/hog one

BTW, spoke with my friend and he would prefer a CZ, despite me saying that the RAR would still be very functional, maybe he is becoming a loonie? I guess accurate guns that look pretty will do that to you.

Whittaker Guns has the CZ 452 American in stock for $369.99, They had a special run of them but it appears they are selling so if he really wants one he should act fast, I have seen used ones selling for more than that.

drover

The 452's are fine rifles, but the Ruger Americans are pretty good too. Whatever suits the budget and is available!

Here's another vote for the RAR Compact. I really like the rotary feed magazine and the
light weight at about 6 1/4lbs.

Yes, yes I am. Derek needs it.

I was practicing the Enemy At The Gates with random distances when I shot that 3/8" group, sighting in that rifle. No knob twirling, just Kentucky windage and guesstimating holdover out to 110yds on those little IPSC scale silhouettes.
I'm almost ready!

Ed

Earl,

Is that the rifle you used to kill the squirrel in the picture in the background?

Ed

John,

Sponxx is one of those fortunate sons who found one of the maple stocked 452's... Yes, I'm envious as it shoots as good as it looks.

Ed

Maybe have him shoot a ruger 10/22 too since that is in his price range.

Nobody mentioned any Savages....inexpensive enough that he could have enough money to buy a scope, too.

I wish! Would be NICE if they were that size. Wouldn't it? Then even I could make head shots again.

Had a couple of CZs myself and agree they're great, but they have a couple of ergonomic issues for me in th field. My 77/22 is much better in that regard, but you can't get one for $300 in any condition. The American has a tang safety and multiple stock options, plus the adjustable trigger. Irons available too. Can't see how you could do better for the money.

Don't need another .22, but if they ever make it in stainless, I'm getting one for sure.

Maybe I'll get one anyway.

I love the Ruger RAR, especially the compact version. I also bought a Savage with the Accu Trigger and put a Leupold 4x rimfire (that cost as much as the rifle) on it just before the RAR was introduced, and that gun is no slouch, either. My wife took over the Savage and is pleased as punch, even though I'd buy her any .22 she wants.

I just came back in from shooting some 22 lr, the rifles used were a CZ 452 American and a Ruger American Rimfire. Both rifles had 3x9 scopes and I used three different hunting ammo in both of them (since they are both gopher hunting rifles I could not see any point in using match grade ammo). The CZ consistently shot better groups than the RAR. Yes, I realize these are samples of one, but the main difference is that the CZ just feels more solid. The CZ trigger, with a Yo Dave kit in it, feels better to me than the RAR with the safety shoe but overall the CZ trigger just feels better - it is hard to explain beyond that. The RAR trigger has had a spring change and is set at 1-3/4 lbs, the same weight as the CZ.

To me the CZ seems to be a better built rifle overall and I can understand why your friend is attracted to it over the RAR. The CZ feels more like an adult sized rifle whereas the RAR feels more like a child's rifle.

My advice to him would be to save a few more dollars and get what he really wants. If he chooses not to the RAR is certainly a decent option but I doubt that he will ever be as happy with it as he would be with the CZ. I believe that Whittakers will do lay-aways so that may appeal to him if money is tight.

drover

Hoser - that little tidbit just cost me some $

It is money well spent.

drover

Savages are potentially accurate, but put one next to a CZ and you'll always go Czech. Even at $150 more.

Yep, just bite the bullet and come off with a measly $70 more for the CZ 452. If he doesn't get one now, he will wish he had just spent a bit more now and got what he really wanted.


Honestly, if $70 is really that big of a deal to him, he doesn't need a rifle at all. He can't afford one.

Seems strange to plop down $300 for a Ruger American that can't outshoot a Marlin 60.

I agree that the Ruger American is a nice rifle with a very nice trigger, but the accuracy reports I've seen aren't that impressive.

that's interesting, most reviews/reports i've seen and heard have been much the opposite. i don't doubt some bad reports out there, but its been more of the exception than the norm from where i have seen. hope it is not a wide spread issue.

I ordered a RAR and all of a sudden whitikers came out with the 452s and I bought one because of the reputation and the enablers here pointed me at it.

Just went through scope mounting and trying a few loads, but its obvious the cz is the better gun. The RAR does a good job too, but it doesnt compare sxs. I'll say I dont care for the feel of the ruger trigger.

Save up for a cz if he can still buy one. I'm almoste
tempted to sell all my 22's except the cz and keep the RAR for farm truck duty.

I was just reading Jeff Quin's review of the 22lr American. He tried a lot of different ammo and the accuracy was nothing to get excited about. I can shoot 1" 50yd groups all day with a 4X power simmons cheapo scope and CCI minimags with my Marlin 60.

I like the American, but I'm afraid it is like the 10/22 accuracy-wise.

i went and read his review, http://gunblast.com/Ruger-American22.htm and i am surprised with some of the group sizes, especially with the mini mags. i wonder if he really allowed the barrel to get seasoned with each brand prior to shooting for group sizes.

If he was shooting those groups like he was shooting on the video, it's no wonder he didn't get great accuracy.

On the list of ammo tested, I counted six brands which gave 1" or less @ 50 yards and a couple of those really close to 1/2".

I would not call that an inaccurate gun.

Mine (the Compact version) loves CCI Standard velocity Solids. The very first day I shot a 3/8" group at 50 yards and proceeded to shoot a group at 100 that was just over an inch.

That feat is repeatable, but only when I do my part.

Late last week I spoke with the owner of the LGS where I got mine and he had another happy customer come back in and said that he too was getting ~1/2" groups at 50 yards and just over an inch at 100yards with his Compact.

I need to pick up some honest-to-God match ammo and wring it out, take pictures, and post them.

Don't get me wrong, if Sponxx were to leave his Maple stocked CZ 452 lying around it might disappear...

Ed

O
Not wrong at all, sounds like a Mark II would be an excellent choice.

My feeling, as well. For the money, you get very good accuracy AND you can afford a scope. Sometimes a limited budget really IS limited. It is very easy to keep inching up and exceeding that 300 by a couple hundred. Really and for true, including a scope, I don't see another option.

Guys,

I just looked at a CZ452 Ultra Lux yesterday. Vendor does internet sales as well as a store front. On his website, the rifle was $407. In the store it was $457 although he said he would honor the internet price.

The only CZ's in the $300 range are the CZ455 Americans with the plastic stocks. And they're still at $350

Good luck in what ever choice you make.

I did buy 5 of these last year- They were $169. They've been good little rifles.

http://www.jgsales.com/zastava-cz99-bolt-action-rifle,-22lr,-22-barrel,-yugo-import-by-cai,-new.-p-62934.html


I've seen good and bad postings on the web about them. All 5 of the rifles I bought are great little shooters. Especially at $169

I suggest a cz American because it has a stock suitable for use with a scope and a barrel lenght less excessive than the trainer/lux/ulux group of guns. The trainer/lux/ultra lux all have long barrels with iron sights. The stocks have excess drop in the butt stock designed for using iron sights. 99% of rimfire shooters want a scope. That is the American, only cz option for a normal size adult. (the varmint is a heavy specialty gun)

I dont like the 455 as much, but a proper 455 is better than a mis fit 452. I would prefer a Ruger to a 455, But I am not the Op's friend. I have a 453 which is a superb firearm but those are history now.

I suggest a cz because that is what the op said his friend wants. So; he may need to show some decipine and character and work and save his money. A new concept for some these days. Or borrow to get a gun from Whitakers which are probably all sold out by now.

For the cz gun nut a 452 scope can be restocked. The 452 scout also has too much drop in the comb. And the stock is too short.

A gun stock should fit. A first gun should fit.

The cz99 are zastava and a very poor gun compared to the check cz or ruger American. Those 99's are fine for what they are and might be a good project. Most important is cheap price. There is always/always a market for cheap. That is not a bad thing either. It is just not a quality cz alternative - IMHO.

Whittakers is still showing them in stock on their website. I just picked mine up on Tuesday...