I'm thinking I need a bolt action 22lr. This would be used for squirrel hunting and plinking. The three in the title are leading the list currently and in the order I am considering them, which is largely based on price. So, please give me your opinion as to which and why.

Thanks in advance

Savage ? lot of features in this one.....have one & shoots great

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MARKIIFVSR

Of the three listed....CZ.

CZ. Walnut

CZ American.....walnut

Of those three, the CZ 455 in the American version.

Depends on how low you want to mount your scope.

So that if fits comfortably. On centerfires lows or mediums generally work just fine.

I will say, I'm a bit surprised on the suggestions. I've not handled a 455 or T1X, so that may answer the question for me.

You should take the suggestions with a grain of salt. No one outside of folks who were at the Shot show has had an opportunity to handle the Tikka T1x much less shoot it, so the replies are more emotional than factual. The CZ is known to be a generally good shooter and has been around for a long time, but I suspect that the Tikka will give it a run for its money.

drover

If driven by price the Ruger American, plain old rifle will shoot as well as any other Ruger, minus the fashion statement. I consider this a very advanced design. The action and bedding are top notch. The magazine too, cannot beat that for 10 shots with a flush mount. Easy scope mount with 60 degree bolt lift and weaver base. It is not rambo cool. Ruger offers that too.

The old discontinued cz 452 should edge out the Ruger by shooting perhaps, at most, 1/4 inch smaller 5 shot group size at 50 yards. Infact, I see about 1/2 the much difference. The 455 are not getting quite the same review as the 452. The 455 in an American stock, has a beautiful classic stock with old school bolt action.

The Tikka will be more money and I dont know what possible gain you would see. No experience equates to pure guess work. I dont need one.

The Savage and Marlin bolt actions are very old primitive (as in low cost) simple bolt designs that date back to a time when rimfires were cheap kids guns. In terms of pure accuracy, that is all in the barrel and my old marlin micro groove was as accuarate as my cz. The difference? I wore out the Marlin, I could not wear out a cz in 3 lifetimes. Just my opinion.

I've an older 452 and a Ruger American Predator.

Ruger trigger is better, just as accurate with most ammo, cheaper mags that work great, comes with better mounting system, and over all just a smoother piece of equipment. That said, I do like the CZ as well. Yo Dave makes a bad trigger better, but I'd not call it great.

Also have a Tikka Tx1 coming. Bet I'll like it better than the other two.

I just went with a SS 455, based on the avaialbilty of aftermarket stuff that appeals to me like the DIP triggerguard and mount, plus nice walnut at a very reasonable price.

Was going for a .17 at first, but switched to the .22.

Order this one from Darrik and never look back.

https://shop.whittakerguns.com/product/ss-3039

I ordered one in 22Mag. I took it to the range for the first time a few days ago. It was windy and I still turned in some decent groups. Definitely squirrel accurate. Most rimfires need some breaking in to do their best. This one will likely be close to an MOA gun when it gets broken in and I find its favorite ammo. You can spend almost double on one of those foreign made guns and it might shoot marginally better.

In .22 mag I would agree with that due to the near universal .22 mag chamber and bore specs throughout the world.

In a .22 LR - not so much.

The European rifles though, have tighter bore and chamber specs in 22LR. They seem to shoot a wider variety of .22 LR ammo better than American guns. The Euro made .22 magnum and 17 HMR guns dont seem to have near the accuracy advantage over American rifles due to having the same bore and chamber specs

CZ 452, I own more than 10 of them. Best value in rimfires. Theres nothing like blued steel and walnut, so i stay away from plastic stocks most of the time. BUT the new Tikka T1X will probably change that. Not a big Ruger fan.

I'd bet money that the T1x is going to do to rimfires what the T3 did to centerfires.

Doubtful.......

I have owned several Sako p72/ m78 Finnscout and P94 Finnfire rifles during the last 35 years..NONE of them shot any better than the CZ 452 sporters I have owned. I have not heard nor seen reports of Sako Finnfire or Quad accuracy being any better than the CZs either.. Good accuracy, but not some magic "match grade accuracy in a sporter" that everyone seems to want. As a matter of fact the older Sakos I owned outshot the later guns by a bit...And they were certainly better made.

My bet is the Tikka fanboys wlll be very satisfied with the T1x as a trainer for their Centerfires..But- if you are expecting them to markedly outshoot CZs or many other rimfire rifles already on the market -then good luck with that...:) If Sako could not do it with $1,000 rifles, then selling them for $499 and putting "Tikka" on them won't make them shoot any better. And, hopefully they will eject cases better than a Sako m85...;)

I am going to buy at least a 22LR version and run it through its paces to compare it in honest terms with other rifles in that class.
But I am not going to descend into to making silly predictions about its future without having shot one.

Yes I doubt that too
Apparently they have the same action profile as the T3 and that is just way too much extra steel for a rimfire action.
Also they use the T3 stock and it is too clubby for a centre fire, let alone a rimfire.

Hmmmm......🤔

Maybe I'll have to retract that. That 455 is a sharp looking rifle.

That probably explains why those that have experience have found that the CZs have shot marginally better. And that's what I opined in my post. Does that marginal difference matter in the OPs application?

Back tracking a bit here, my opinion comes from limited personal experience but a lot of reading on forums like this and others. Working on the law of averages here. CZs are more likely to shoot a larger variety of ammo accurately. Once you find the right ammo for your Predator, the accuracy differences are likely to be inconsequential for what most people use their rifles for most of the time. You are much more likely to have quality control issues with your Rugers. It used to pain me to say that, but that's the business model Ruger has chosen, so they get to live with it. Ruger customer service is the best in the industry. The Predator will cost about $200 less. The Predator magazine is the best of the bunch. The flush fit is nice both in appearance and function. The CZ safety matters to some and not others. Some people like buying from companies that are very active in supporting 2A.

We are talking hunting rifles here. Of course they will be used for casual target shooting, but based on what I have read, Tikkas can't be more accurate than CZs. There's just not any room left for improvement. Maybe a tenth of an inch. What real world difference would that make in a hunting rifle.

I'd love to see a 10 gun (from each manufacturer) test between Marlin, Savage, Ruger, CZ and the new Tikka. I'd like to see 10 different loads used in each gun. 5 shot groups at 50.

I agree. When my CZ lands, I'll wring it out with the collection of ammo I've got on hand. If it's a good one, I'll know it's worth proceeding with the upgrades, trigger, triggerguard, maybe some walnut. All in, that'd put the total at about $800 for a really nice all-steel .22, about what a 77/22 costs, and a lot less than some of the high-end stuff.

If it's not a shooter, then I'll have spent $400 on a stainless plinker.

if

Not really. .

One very real advantage to the interchangeable barrel system in the m455 rifles is that if you want better accuracy ,you can always upgrade to a drop in Lilja etc. Should you decide to sell the gun, you could actually probably part the rifle out and still get your money back..:)

Chances are though, if you at least try some mid grade standard velocity ammo like SK Standard etc in the rifle you will find it is a shooter. Every CZ I have owned has been caoable of consistent sub MOA accuracy with the Wolf Target/Sk Standard load. Some also like RWS, Fiocchi and CCI standard vel as well.

I think you will be pleased.

That's what I did with my 452.
Fortunately it's a tack driver. The worst ammo I could find (WW) still shot MOA. CCI's are half that and match ammo is pretty much one hole at 50yrds.

I spent $369 for the rifle + $80 for an RB trigger + $150 for bottom metal + $10 for a metal magazine end cap so I have a little under $600 in it.

I wouldn't sell it for twice that amount.

Or just buy an Anschutz.

Had a 455 (and a 453) before. The 455 was only so-so with both the mag and LR barrels. The 453 was awesome, but the bolt and trigger positions weren't comfortable for me so when I got the hots for a SS 77/22 RSI I sold it. Bad move. Love the little Ruger, but it only shoots about as well as the 455 did, which is to say okay.

Hoping for the best this time. Not sure I can bring myself to spring for a $400 barrel.

in a sporter, that won't solve anything.... Trust me.

Do you know what MOA actually means? That means 1" at 100 yards (or half inch at 50)..

Based on your statement above, you claim that your m452 CZ will shoot .5" groups at 50yards with its WORST ammo...and half that (1/4") at 50 with CCI Standard velocity....

And match ammo even "better"?.

Yes...I know exactly what MOA means and I meant exactly what I said.

Bad experience? Or they dont shoot any better for what they cost? Haha

I have to question this also. You never know, with guns, but; these results are misleading to others as what to expect from a CZ, any CZ. I do see 1/2" at 50 yards with a CZ 453 and CCI Std. BUT! There are always a few outliers and an honest calculation is over 1 moa. I get pretty much the same result with my Anschutz 1416 (sporter wt gun). Both rifles improve a tad and become more consistent with RWS. For me, to shoot 1/4" groups requires I use my Match 54 (hvy wt position gun). I am too cheap to buy mega buck ammo to see if I can hold that as a average.

This is an interesting read. Ammo tested with arguably best of the best, even crazy accurate and expensive rifles will shoot 2moa with the worse ammo. This is an honest 1/2 moa rifle with eley and lapua ammo. The ammo is a limiting factor with any rimfire rifle:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...imfire-ammo-tests-accuratereloading-com/

I think it's possible that some lots of cheaper ammo end up being more consistent than expected, just by chance, which would explain some of the results people get. There's also some pure baloney that gets posted here and elsewhere, but nobody appointed me Truth Detector, so I don't worry about it one way or the other. Only results I'm concerned with are the ones I get. Since I really started paying attention to this stuff, I've found a few brands and types of ammo that tend to shoot well in good rifles, good enough for the hunting and practicing I do. Those are the ones I keep an eye out for. Occasionally (like the other day) I'll see a bargain on something and take a chance, but I stay away from bulk packs and obvious crap ammo. During the first panic, I did pick up some bulk Federal and Winchester, just in case. The Winchester is pretty good, but the Federal has been pretty spotty, both in accuracy and reliability. I'm trying to burn this stuff up in practice, and gave a couple boxes of the Winny away, but it's slow going, since I don't generally practice for long, and don't "plink".

When the CZ lands, I'll try my goto RWS SSHP, SV, MiniMags, and Aguila Match. That should give me a good idea of how it's going to go. I checked some posts on RFC, and it's definitely a mixed bag; from guys who've sent theirs back to CZ in disgust, to ones who are ecstatic. I'll use my Bushnell 4-12 AO airgun scope to start, and decide on the permanent one later.

JFC........will it make you bitches feel better if I add "on average" to my post?
I think everyone knows that rimfire ammo tends to be inconsistent and that the more you pay the less inconsistent it is but that doesn't mean that the rifle isn't capable.

PS.....1/4" groups at 50yrds isn't really that remarkable.

Quarter inch groups at fifty yards is quite a bit above average I'd say. Some may turn up their nose at it, but I'd be plenty pleased with it. Course a bench rest for my 22's usually consists of a block of wood or a cinder block or the back of a chair or a hood of a truck.
I'm happy hitting what I'm shooting at, and targets more often than not are bigger than a quarter inch. I guess I'm easily amused.

With a Cooper JSR, cheseschutz worked 54, cz455 Trainer, Annie 64 in a manners, and a Ruger predator in the safe....my 14 yo takes the Predator first pick every time. And with eley ammo it likes she cleans house in the backyard steel wars. It may sound like a fat chick in corduroy shuckin shells but it shoots boringly well.

MMM, the bullshit meter just hit 10/10
You don't really expect anyone to believe that crap do you?

1/4" groups at 50 suck.

1/4" groups for a mass produced sporter rifle is pretty dang good IMO.

LMAO

I wish I could coax my guns into sucking that badly.

Purging one of each from the shelves of your dealer may be the only logical thing to do.

The CZ accuracy standard is 1" at 50 yards with Eley target ammo. I know as I sent mine back since I could not get groups under 1" at 50 yards with target ammo that I use in my other rimfire rifles. I tried TAC22, TAC match, Wolf target, SK+, Remington Match, and Remington Ultra match). CZ was able to get groups just under 1" with Eley Tenex. I spoke with the gunsmith at CZ, he said they use the best available ammo for accuracy testing. I was really hoping for better accuracy with SK+ or Wolf but that was not the case with my 455. Others have had better luck with the accuracy. I will be interested in acquiring a Tikka 22 when they come out with one in stainless.

I'd say search out a CZ-452 American on gb or wait for the Tikka T1x to show up. I've got a half dozen CZ-452 rimfires and they all will shoot .5" 5 shot groups@50yds fairly routinely if I'm on that day. there is always the nut behind the trigger to worry about. that all said I will purchase a Tikka T1x threaded if they make one with a 16" barrel seeing as I'm already a Tikka centerfire nut the transition seems natural. but, y'all folks pre ordering the T1x please post up your individual experiences.

Couple of my buddies went CZ .22s for some local KNY Matches. Another buddy shoots a RAR-P .22 lr. My Savage FV-SR shoots better than all four of them. Unless you’re going all the way to an Annie, I’d look at the Savage Mark II series.

Savage rimfires are always a good bet.

Try some Eley Subsonic...you might be surprised!

I have a CZ 455 Varmint - shoots amazing with Federal Target Match (cheap bulk pack stuff). 1/2" 5 shot groups at 50 yards on a nice day are common - 1/4" on occasion but not often enough to say it shoots that way all the time.

The specs on the FV-SR surprised me. Thought it'd be heavier. With it's price point it appears to be a close competitor to the RAR predator and in the price range I'm most interested. Might see if I can lay my hands on each this weekend. Thanks for all the input.

the normal stock on the salvage FVs is quite blocky, especially in the grip area. i prefer the ones with the boyds tacticool stock. i will say that my FV is quite a shooter with CCI SV.

correction, mine is the BV

FV-SR has the cheap plastic stock. It’s servicable, but often required some type of additional cheekpiece.

I think I paid under $200 for mine. It’s had the crap kicked out of it, and I don’t think I’ve ever cleaned it. But it shot a 3/4” 10-shot group the other day at 75 yards with CCI-SVs.

An accurate .22 bolt gun, with a pic rail on top, is about the ultimate tool for testing LR optics that I’ve found. In just a couple hours, and for under $50 in ammo.... you can reef a couple lifetimes worth of twists on a turret, and any RTZ/tracking issues will make themselves obvious rather quickly.

You guys shooting with iron's or glass? I bought my son a CZ 452 Scout when he was 12 and that thing shoots! It does have a Mini 4x28 Bushnell on, so that helps. I'm eyeing a CZ 455"Training Rifle". Damn good reviews and I LIKE that long barrel for hitting empty cans with out in the desert. $338.00 at Bud's.

Dog- The stock shape is why I'd like to handle one before buying. Looks like it might be a bit lower than I'd prefer. Guess I could use to $50 I save over the Predator for a purse for it.

You can also go to a Boyd’s for $100ish. They have several models that fit the FV-SR.

Nothing wrong with a taco either... it’s a $200 rimfire, it’s not like you’re drilling holes in a Mickey... or trying to impress your friends with gorgeous claro walnut.

Or find yourself a nice used CZ 452 American.

Of your 3 listed choices I would buy a CZ 455 stainless but like everyone else I have zero experience with the Tikka T1x, (I expect it will be very good) ....the Ruger would be a very distant 3rd choice for Me......Good luck...Hb

CZ has good customer support!

Tikka has none at all and is very up-front in telling you so usually in a rude manor.

That factor alone would make be buy the CZ ---------------or maybe something else too, other then Tikka.

Do you have experience with Tikka non-customer service? I have heard nightmares about it. Enough so that while I recognize their products are very good and very unlikely to need customer service, I just cannot abide a company that won't stand by what they sell.

Haven't heard those drama stories.....more like Maytag repairman.

I have experienced Beretta CS with a Sako 85 that would eject a spent case straight up into My scope..After talking to a Beretta CS agent I sent the rifle back (on My dime) I got My rifle back a month later with a note stating the rifle was in spec and needed no repair....Lmao!!.....Hb

Actually my experience was excellent. They put a new screw in the mail asap free of charge and were very pleasant on the phone.

I am a full time gunsmith, so other then my custom builds, most of what comes to my shop are the broken guns and the ones that are not working up to snuff. So it makes sense I am going to see the problems far more than most. Like doctors, we don't see all the healthy ones!

I have had 4 different customers come to me with broken bolts from the Tikka center-fires. The bolt handle is dovetailed into the bolt body. All 4 had the same defect. The rear of the bolt broke off, right through the treads so there was no way to repair them.

Not the bolt handles. The bolt BODIES was broken!

Tikka was called and in every instance their answer is the same.

Too bad!

No repair available. No replacement of the bolt. No new gun. NOTHING!

And then they had the nerve to want to sell the owners a new gun at FULL RETAIL.

Having them send a new screw is no big deal. 6X48 screws are available from Brownells by the dozens. And my guess is that's what they have, so those kind of things are easy for them and cost them next to nothing. But broken bolts are a big deal. And they tell you on the phone it's nothing they will cover, and they have no warranty at all, and it's just your tough luck.

Now major problems may or may not cross over into the other guns they make. If a gun is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong such a policy is of no importance. But many other companies make guns too and have good customer service, and their guns don't seem to break, so from my viewpoint I have to ask why you would take a chance? This is a problem with business policies.

Ruger had NO written warranties either expressed of implied. That keeps them safer in the world full of crooked lawyers. But they have a POLICY within the company that they take care of you, and they do have excellent customer service, just no written policy about it. Tikka has no warranted and NO service when 4 of their BOLTS have broken. I see that as a policy problem and I warn everyone that comes into my shop or into any of the 4 Gun Shops I do gunsmithing for, that if you buy a Tikka and if it has any major problems I can't get it fixed for them free. It's going to cost them again. In the 4 cases above there was nothing we could do at all. Those guns had to be thrown into the dumpster.

All 4 customers DID BUY NEW GUNS! None of them bought another Tikka. Or ever will!

If you want to pay the money and take the chance it's ok with me. It costs me nothing, but my morals cause me to post these warnings to all who read them. There was nothing I could do for them, but there is something I can do for all of you, and that's to tell you what I have seen.

"I have a Tikka and it's been perfect" is what I hear all the time.

All 4 of these customers could have said the exact same thing, one day before their guns broke.

Wouldn't mind seeing pics of that.

Thank you for that info. I've been tempted several time to buy a Tikka but always found another brand I liked better.

I am cured of the temptation now for sure. Customer service and warranty are not important until you need them. I won't deal with companies like you describe.

I just find it interesting that out of all the Tikkas around the fire, that nobody's heard of this before. And one guy has seen it 4 times.


Remington bolt handles are another story.

I read about the Tikka bolt problem several years ago. Don’t think it was on this site, though.

I would like to see some pictures also, I cannot imagine how it could be done without using a large hammer.

drover

I found the thread:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498856
The fellow who posted the picture said they wanted new rifle price to fix it, as well.

Pictures from same:

Something ain't stirring the kool-aid.....

Tikkas have a Two year warrantee. If it breaks on the 731st day after you bought it , you are phuucked.

Smoke another bowl.

Wow! That is some pitiful service.......Hb

I can't believe tikka wouldn't fix it that is crazy

Tikka and Sako are owned by Beretta, and Beretta USA has a horrible reputation for arrogance and ignoring the heathen, unwashed masses. Not so much around the world, just the Beretta USA gang.

Some years ago, Beretta released some "seconds" (cosmetic blemishes) (they had a proof stamp different from 'first run' guns). There was no announcement about this policy, ever. When a reader from American Handgunner magazine bought one and had troubles, Beretta would NOT service them, period. That told me a lot.but talking to a Beretta rep at the NRA Show in 2008 told me even more. Arrogant MFers.