First trip: I figured with all the noise I was making re ordering a Vudoo, I'd post a couple of pics. While the 6 groups of 5 shots each at 50 yards of Center X are a bit disappointing, before I start trying different ammo, I will do these things first: lighten the TT trigger, use a more solid rear rest and better focus on the fundamentals.

Second range trip:
-Adjusted the TT Diamond Trigger down

-Check all screws: action and scope rail

-Replaced scope with a Leupold Mark 5 HD 3.6-18x44

-Cleaned barrel

-Used a more rigid rear rest and braced bipod

-Focus on fundamentals

Overall, a little better, maybe. Seems like the first groups at the beginning of each row/far left is where I'm doing something noticeably wrong. The second and third group in each row are better. Still not smiling. I'll keep at it.

Nice. Which rear bag is that?

It's a wedge bag from Triad Tactical.

I see several GLARING tells. Hint.

Firstly,lose the bipod and shoot a soft front rest,as a rifle critique of inherent virtue. Hint.

Second,parallax is screaming at you. Hint.

Lastly,at 50yrds every (1 MPH) of wind not detected,is greater than a .1" horizontal shift.

Re-lastly,any/all Reupolds would haveta' REALLY fhuqking impress me in zero retention and tracking,before a critique of said rifle. To date...they don't make one. Hint.

Start at the fhuqking start and thank me later.

Should add,mine are both Bart' spouts,but pards happily drive ACE,with multiple chambers in the fray(all Vudoo twisted up).

Hint...................

J Scott and (dare I say/ask)Little twig, is the Voodoo subject to most rimfires needs in that it takes 100 to 200 rounds through a brand new rifle before it settles in? I was under the impression the VooDoo’s were lapped and ready to rock and roll. If that is the case then perhaps the issues are some of the talking points brought up a couple threads above.

A better day at the range. 3rd trip and a total of 185 rounds down the tube.
-Watched SHLowlight videos (again) on fundamentals like: shooting hand grip/pulling rearward into shoulder pocket, gripping the rear bag, loading the bipod/don't jump, trigger control, staying with the shot and finally, consistency. Additionally, I used a different target which my aging eyes prefer.
-My 6x5 target is attached-circles are 1/2". Row 2 column 1-one got away from me high because I let off the bag too soon and didn't stay with the shot. Still plenty of fundamental work to do, trying different ammo and lots, perhaps a new scope, I'll say it again, fundamentals, etc. But one things for certain, I'm beginning to smile.

Stick, I was hoping you would chime in. Thanks and will do.

Jim-I always look at the man in the mirror first. And sure enough, it's the same guy behind the trigger

Looks a bunch better J Scott!

Vudoo's are just too much fun aren't they?

I turned my buddies 10 yo son loose with mine last week and after he rang steel at 330 yards a couple times he yells out "we are SO doing this again!"

Reminds me, I need to build that kid a KYL rack.

If groups ain't round...things are SCREAMING "mechanical".

POA/POI will not shift,with parallax nailed.

What reticle are you gunning(I'm assuming Duplex)? A 10x MQ would settle alotta mechanicals down.

'Tis AMAZING,what a scope swap away from Reupold,does to an equation.(grin) Hint.

Thank me later.

Hint.

Laughing!.....................

Vudoo ever do a 75 moa rail?

Getting tired of the chin weld the Burris rings require.

Stick-Fine Duplex and you've led me to water

Higbean-thank you. One thing I like about my "Terrain" stock is the raised, M40'ish cheek comb. I'll probably sell it though to buy the real thing via McMillan.

For $2,500 +, I would expect just one clean hole at 25 yards!

I would too, but I've never shot it at 25 yards. So far, only 50 yards.

25 yards?

So keep your Chipmunk and stfu.

'bean,

I'm unaware of a Vudoo rail approaching 75 MOA,though I'd certainly buy a few. Hint.(grin)

I should call Bob in the AM and hit him up,like my 75 MOA Annie 54 product run.

Gale +P+ winds now and a Monsoon to boot,so I may be by the phone...give or fhuqking take......................



6mm,

For $2500,you'd need (6) Co-signers and a Lien Holder. Congratulations?!?

Though it's called "two days of wages" in these parts. Hint.

Bless your Whining Brokedicktitude for trying.

Hint.

LAUGHING!...................




'Scott,

I'm unfamiliar with Faux MacaMillions in general and FauxBoe's in particular,especially Terrains.(grin)





The ergo's are KILLER.

Drop the front stud,shoot a soft front rest and swap scopes...then thank me later.

Hint.

Just saying..........................(grin)

Yeah right Stinky. Show us a paycheck stub or shut the f u c k up.

OK then, a fuzzy hole.

Golly, y'all tore in to 6mm. Ouch.

Stick, so I see you've "heard" of the Terrain-nice collection. Ocular or side focus on 10x MQ?

Personally,I prefer rear parallax.



Poor poor(literally) 6mm tears herself up,due the countless WELL founded Insecurities and the fact that besides being a CLUELESS Fhuqk,that she just happens to be a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit to boot. Hint.



Bless her heart for crying.

Hint.

LAUGHING!....................

Thanks, Stick. I have just enough change leftover in my Roi-Tan box to buy one. I see you and 6mm have already met.

Got mine setup in a McMillan classic to mirror most of my hunting rigs closer and it wears a 10x MQ or 4-14 SHV F1 depending. Mine shoots the SK Standard Plus about like the Center X so I shoot the SK mostly. Now that the Q El Camino arrived, having even more fun with it.

'Scott,

There are multiple 10x MQ's on The Sample List and I've bought piles of them there. Hint.

I'd not linger.



6mm is DESPERATE to "live" vicariously,so she likes to limp along behind with her Brokedick Whine and gawk at all the wares and opportunities well beyond her. Pretty fhuqking funny actually!(grin)

Bless her heart for crying.

Hint.

LAUGHING!....................






'388,

I've been in Chrome Mode,but am transitioning to a more balanced Cast & Blast and my Old Glory Classic Vudoo will certainly be in tow.

LOVE that thing........................

"'Scott,

There are multiple 10x MQ's on The Sample List and I've bought piles of them there. Hint.

I'd not linger"

In transit. ETA is Friday.

They generally ship fast. You'll reduce Agg's,due the reticle alone...as they are easy to hold HARD.

Spill your guts on the findings......................

Will do.

Stick, you think they would do one of those Vudoo things with a pretty wood stock? I know you're stashing a couple of nice stocks around somewhere for yours when no one is looking....

Of course, I guess I could just slum a Remington SA stock on one? Hmmmmm..... I can see this costing me some (more) money.....

Bob

Bob,

They are Gun People and I think they are into most anything,that makes at least a little sense. Certainly a BIG part of the appeal,is the S/A 700 footprint commonality and all that goes along with that,which certainly includes handles.

A McMillan Walnut Gelcoat Classic handle in a 18" Specter contour,prolly wouldn't suck.

These things are for REAL and purty words do no fhuqking justice at all...you just gotta drive one,to appreciate how amazing the platform is.

Hint.......................

gif hoster

Bob

I had the same question.

They work with a gentleman who can make you a wood version...very high end.

It was something I considered, but knowing how I was going to use it steered me to the Grayboe.

Well, they have a 60 moa rail now.

Not enough to wanna jump but close.

@Certifiable-those 2 photos are simply incredible. Thank you very much for sharing.

This is mine as it sits now. Accuracy seems unaffected by the suppressor. Firing pin dropping is only noise you hear now. Its too much fun.

@30338-Nice...Specter contour?

McM Classic?

Quiet .22's are the coolest.

Jscott... thanks man

Hig.. dafuq is going on up north boss

303338.. sweet looking rifle. Would still like to try a NF one day but don’t think it will do anything I need that a FF won’t at a fraction of the cost

You boys keep up with these pics and we might nudge stick into tryin one of them vudoos after all....

Someone's gotta stay grounded and direct traffic. While I'm sure them there Vudoo's rate the billing,I just don't see it happening,for me. Please don't tease me any more.

Especially when I already have a DooDoo!......................(grin)

Yep, Specter at 18".

Stock is Mcmillan classic. Stick inspired build there. Good advice as usual.

Back at it today. Looks like I"m stuck in the mud, not much change if any. I like the SS 10x42 MQ scope-easy view. Hope to shoot off of a front bag soon to see if there's a difference compared to the bipod.

Have you tried other top end Target loads?

Lapua Center-X Ammo is fine stuff ,but your rifle is an individual just like amy other and is going to have ammo preferences. It might shock you what it shoots the best.

You are getting down to a level of accuracy where that really matters. Even lot numbers of the same loads do.

Looks to me like you are solidly around .6 MOA from a bipod in some wind.. Pretty darn good.

And yes- getting a benchmark level of accuracy off of bags on calm day would help clarify any questions about your bipod technique.

Not yet, but plan to do so. Thanks for your response.

Looking better Scott

I'm not a fan of bipods..have a few, don't use em. Bags or a mechanical rest is my preference.

Looks to me by the shift in POI you either have a parallax issue, wind or it's bipod/technique.

I rarely see folks verify parallax and it will make a big difference.

Ammo wise I've had good success with Federal UM22 (out of production) , Norma TAC and Match, Center X and Midas +.

I always shoot 10-20 foulers between each brand to settle things down.


Solid move going SWFA. You wont regret it.

Mechanically,I see improvement(round groups).

I hate bipods,for more than a "few" reasons.

Hint..............

Yep, spent the time getting reticle focused and verifying parallax. The 10x MQ is like the rest of them, the numeral indicators are just that-once I adjusted parallax for my eyes, here's where the "indicators" landed-see pic. It's unanimous, the bipod is the next variable for me to eliminate in my accuracy equation and if needed, ammo change.

OK, here's my $.02, FWIW. When I read your OP, I just shook my head. I've seen it before, repeatedly.

What I am going to say assumes that you want to wring out the ultimate that your Vudoo is capable of, not necessarily just good enough for the shooting you plan to do.

Pay close attention to what Stick has told you.

Lose, meaning set aside, that "tactical" orientation which is most of what the Vudoo is about. (I live in "Vudootown") Case in point, the bipod. You'll eventually come back to it. That's OK.

"Go to school" on .22 benchrest. Yeah, we know, you aren't interested in what anal mostly geezers do at 50 yards, but those folks are absolutely uncompromising in their pursuit of accuracy, and their equipment and techniques are proven. They've BTDT.

Get a good pedestal rest and bags. That doesn't have to be a $600 Sinclair or $1000+ SEB, but it needs to be rock solid, and the bags need to fit. Not one of those one-piece "sleds". There are good sales and used stuff if you're patient and shop around. Benchresters are always trading off and buying new schit. The contact between rifle and bags must be uniform and the rifle must move absolutely uniformly from shot-to-shot. Hint: .22s do recoil and the bullet is a long time down the bore. A cheap expedient is a baggie between bags and stock. When I discovered that, my groups shrank. These days I like the bags with the slick silver stuff. For the same reason, your hold must also be uniform. For example, varying cheek pressure will kill your groups, mostly laterally. You may find that your rifle performs better with firm pressure or maybe little to none. You have to experiment. Bottom line is that .22s are absolutely unforgiving of lack of uniformity when it comes to optimal accuracy. Hint: precision air rifles are even worse, but for the same reasons.

Note that I haven't said anything about your rifle and scope. That won't be where to look for significant improvement, at this point.

Once you've done enough serious testing at 50 yards, STOP. Take a deep breath and contemplate that 50 yards is seldom indicative of what your outfit will do at 100 yards, let alone beyond. Many a shooter has been vexed to find that groups at longer range are not proportional to the 50 yard results. 50 yards is a good starting point, but you really have to test at the longer ranges to learn what ammo is optimal. At least it's fun!

Wind. Did I mention wind? Look at a .22 benchrest match and you'll see a forest of colorful wind flags, each shooter deploying several. Shooting well in the wind separates the winners from also-rans. Go to school on it, learn to shoot the wind. Top shooters love the wind, it gives them an edge. Others fear it. Learn to love it. You'll never really know what your rifle and ammo will do until you can remove as much of the wind factor as possible. Absent a tunnel you can't eliminate it, just have to learn to compensate.

A personal note, OK a brag. I shoot local .22 benchrest in Factory class with my CZ American, and my groups are pretty close to the ones you have posted. I won the annual aggregate a couple of years ago. I can't beat the high scores in Unlimited with my lowly CZ sporter, but I usually shoot in the middle of the Unlimited pack. Point being, it's not just the equipment. You and your Vudoo can do better!

Good shooting, and have a fun trip.

Paul

Solid advise, Paul, Very well stated and very much appreciated. You've provided me pointers that I should re-visit and visit. And yes, I still have my old Sinclair front rest from a years back-pre Brownells. I really like what you said re: wind-that got my attention the most. I believe I've underestimated it's effect on .22 rimfire at 50 yards. Gotta love CZ's and congrats on your accomplishments with yours. Again, many thanks.

You're very welcome. Obviously, I just offered a few high points.

Another "wind story". A few years ago .22 benchrest was included in our annual state sport Games. Several shooters got bitten by the benchrest bug, and ran out and bought Anschutz .22 target rifles. For the most part, they didn't buy scopes that were of the same level as their rifles, but that's another story and there has been a learning curve. At the time most didn't realize that Anschutz isn't a go-to brand for serious benchrest, but that too is another story, having to do with the learning curve.

Anyhow, with that as background, I was on the range one day and a guy was shooting his brand new Anschutz and frustrated with his groups. His 50 yard vertical was little more that a bullet diameter but his horizontal was around 3/4". So he's going on about that angle adjustment of the Anschutz trigger, wondering if he should move it. Meanwhile, I'm watching the wind, and noting that it is light but shifting from side to side. The poor guy was oblivious. In the years since then that whole group has learned a lot, but a lot of them still underestimate the importance of wind. BTW, if you search online there are some nice little "clock" charts showing the effects of wind speed and direction on bullet impact, nice to print out and take to the range for reference.

You're on the right track. Keep having fun.

Paul

Paul, thank you for your post. That is some solid advice and I appreciate it.

A little thing, by way of example.

Yesterday I had RSO duty at our range. I watched a very experienced BR shooter coaching a relative newbie. The newer guy asked about the peg at the front of the front rest, the forearm stop, and why the other guy pushed his rifle against the stop, then moved it back a smidge. The experienced shooter explained that he shoots his .22 with a bit of shoulder pressure on the butt, and he doesn't want the rifle stressed by being "sandwiched" front and back. I never thought of that, and I can't say whether it matters or how much, but it makes sense. I do know that it's important to reposition your stock in exactly the same place after each shot. Something as simple as a piece of tape on your stock works. Not all shooters use a forearm stop, I don't.

Optimal accuracy is about reducing variation, from whatever source. No variation, all the bullets go through the same hole. Simple, right?

Just like the OP, Mr. Scott. Everybody has to have their own goals, and decide how anal they are willing to be, how much of their money, time, and effort the accuracy chase is worth, while recognizing that there are diminishing returns.

My opening comment in my original response was not intended to be a put down, but came from having watched many shooters spinning their wheels, and going down rabbit holes chasing better accuracy, That's what I mean about "going to school", studying the issue and going about it systematically.

As for me, I'm not a dedicated BR shooter. I'm not interested in pursuing the ultimate in accuracy, although I respect and learn from those who do. I could afford better stuff, but I just enjoy getting the best from my "working class" guns like my CZ, and making the top dogs sweat a bit as I nip at their heels!

One thing more that bears repeating. Don't be overconfident about your scope, and don't put blind faith in a brand. If accuracy falls off, especially suddenly, check your scope. Best test is an immediate swap. Yesterday I watched another shooter as his 36X target scope took a dump. The brand debate rages here on the Optics forum.

Paul

Stick is right on ditching the bipod, and get a rear bag that the shoulder pad is past the pad (doesnt’ hook it).

The rifle needs to be in a “natural aim” or “neutral aim” - meaning when you release the pressure from the rifle with you hands it shouldn’t move... if it does you and or the bags and bi-pod are putting energy into it and if that isn’t done exactly the same way every time it will move where the impact occurs.

Addendum.

When the guy's scope failed, I watched while another shooter loaned him a scope, and the two worked feverishly for over an hour and through a box or more of match .22s (Center X) trying to get it zeroed.

While I watched, they slipped mounts on and off and cranked away on their wrenches. Meanwhile, I'm thinking stresses!

Point is, learn to mount a scope properly or find someone who is competent to do it. It doesn't take a degree in mechanical engineering or special tools, but you do have to have a sense of geometry and be able to visualize potential sources of stress.

Poorly mounted scopes are a major source of vexing accuracy problems, and many a shooter is oblivious. As Stick would say, Hint.

Paul

Tougher wind today and yes, the Sinclair front rest took some more of me out of the equation. I'm smiling...for now.

Looks like you are definitely getting somewhere. For a windy day that is some pretty good shooting....

Bob

Do you need to clean it all that often? I've got Bill Calfee's book (The Art of Rimfire Accuracy) and he mentions the build up of a lead ring at the start of the rifling that is supposed to aid accuracy, at least for a while until it eventually will adversly affect it and need to be removed. I don't have an accurate 22 yet (in he process of getting an Anschutz 1710) but have seen the lead ring in other 22s, not that it seemed to make a difference to the ones I saw it in but they weren't top of the line shooters.

You're fortunate to have Calfee's book. That seems to be the bible of .22 rimfire accuracy. I've never read it. Of course you have to get past his unique writing style, which for me is like fingernails on a blackboard, as I recall from reading his stuff in Precision Shooting magazine.

I pretty much do what mauserand9mm cites, following what Lilja recommends on their website. Very light cleaning of the bore, and considerable attention to the leade area. I use a good quality but worn .22 bronze pistol brush on a non-rotating rod in the chamber area, per Lilja, and others. This assumes a decent quality barrel; sewer pipes require a different approach.

I hate leading, and it's always better to prevent it, or at least stay on top of it, than having to get it out of your barrel later.

That assumes that you're not shooting Thunderbolts out of your Vudoo, Cooper, Anschutz, etc., are you? Don't laugh, I've seen it, and more than once.

Paul

More good stuff.
Paul, you can be my coach, any day.

Just a suggestion, the Harris bipod is not your friend when it comes to shooting good groups. The Harris seems to add some degree of bounce that you do not experience with the Atlas bipod.

Myself and about six to eight others have been shooting long range 22LR matches throughout the spring/summer/fall for the past two years with targets out to 300-yards. Shooting prone off of a shooting mat with a rubberized front section, the Harris bipod can be "loaded" with shoulder pressure and the bounce factor seems to be minimized, the Atlas doesn't seem to need the preloading. However, when shooting off bare concrete the Harris rest slides and the bounce is there.

I also have a BR-50 Cooper benchrest rifle (no longer a competitive rifle in BR circles) and it is much easier to shoot off of a Bald Eagle front rest than any bipod.

Lots of good info in this thread...

Bill Calfee's book is still available on Amazon.

CraigD-thank you. The group I posted yesterday was off of my old Sinclair rest. Groups improved somewhat b/c of it's stability and it was that stability that helped me see/realize the little things I need to correct with my technique. Which as we know, little things can be huge things when shooting rimfire. Consistency comes to mind for me Again, thank you.

Thanks to CraigD for sharing his experience and explaining the issues with the bipod better than I did with my suggestion to set aside the bipod during initial testing to establish optimal accuracy. Obviously a good bipod and using it correctly are essential to practical long range shooting.

Good to know that Bill Calfee's book is available, at a price. The Amazon reviews of the book are interesting. Seems to come down to how much of Bill's "I'm an ol' country boy" BS the reader is willing to sift through to get to the golden nuggets that he offers in his book. If I were closer to the beginning of my shooting journey rather than winding down, I'd sure get it. Come to think of it I should ask my son. He's an accuracy looney, and I wouldn't be surprised if he has it.

Paul

Paul39 said to go to school on .22 Benchrest; truer words were never spoken! Many folks think shooting off of a benchrest with an adjustable forend rest and a good rear bag is a guarantee for shooting small groups. Well, it isn't as easy as it looks! Absolute concentration to details (uniformity) is essential. Yes, a competitive rifle and GOOD ammo is a big part of the equation, but without the uniformity (good bench technique), the group just isn't what you expected.

There have been lots of really good tips given on this thread, if we could only remember them once we are on the range. I have a state of the art 6mm PPC light varmint class rifle. I think that shooting it is lots easier than my .22 LR benchrest rifle - probably due to the weight of the gun and what wind does to the .22 slug.

In bluebird weather it is just a trigger pulling contest and 50-yard groups with the .22 is seemingly only limited by your ammo. My BR-50 Cooper will shoot groups in the mid to low teens with a good lot of Eley Ten-X. However, once that wind starts to blow and shift, then it's the guys that have learned to read and shoot in the wind that can still shoot small groups.

J Scott - Enjoy that rifle! Learning and improving is the name of the game!

Craig

My son confirmed that he has Bill Calfee's book. He lives in another state, but I should borrow it and read it some time.

Perhaps it'll inspire me to get more serious about benchrest, but that could prove costly!

Paul

Maybe, but what else do you have to spend money on? (that is this much fun)

Just a thought on ammo, try some Pistol King (who cares what they call it, it shoots pretty good in some rifles). I have three CZ Scout rifles (a 452 and two 455s), and at 50 yards, they'll shoot right behind your rifle, all three of them, and an autoloading 512 that is right there with them with good ammo. Mine like Geco Semi-Auto, which I was able to buy for less than $30/brick.It's been discontinued, or renamed RWS Semi-Auto, take your pick, but it's been good to me. One outfit closed it out at $139/ CASE, but I missed out on that.

I know a guy who shot rimfire benchrest and was pretty good at it (he won the Nationals a few years back). He gave up on rimfire because "chasing good ammo lots" was too much hassle and cost too much. He found it much easier to do well with centerfire..

Everything you said was 100% accurate, but don't forget follow-thru with rimfire. It's important, too!

I must say, this thread has been a great read. Lots of good info and feedback. Enjoy the journey to same hole groups. Kinda reminds me of trying to achieve a perfect golf game. Lots of variables, techniques and equipment to experiment with. It’s maddening, addicting, but fun as hell!

I agree. Lots of knowledge on display and posters have been very helpful. I continue to be impressed with the people here.

For those of you that are Snipershide member's, go look at the most recent 6x5's in the Rimfire section. There is not a damn thing wrong with a Harris bipod. It's all I have ever used and my groups are pretty small at 50, 100 and 200. Could it improve with a front rest? maybe. But I will keep on with the Harris for now. If it ain't broke!

I will also admit that all of those targets that I entered were shot on days that called for little to no wind and were shot in the first couple of hours of daylight.
Wind is you biggest enemy in rimfire when shooting groups.

My username is the same as it is here.