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Posted By: DigitalDan BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 05/07/20
Many moons ago I had occasion to purchase a couple of boxes each of Dynamit Nobel BB and CB caps. They have seen little use although a few squirrel and armadillos have met their end with this ammo. I have talked a bit about my use of CCI CB Shorts in my battle with pigs, but one of the things that puzzled me was the report of the "Caps" was louder than the shorts.

Having grown weary of life in prison, along with the rest of America, I went out to the backyard range with the Chrono and a small supply of ammo just to find out what these little things actually do. I was shooting on the 20 yard line with a bag rest. The numbers surprised me and made me smile a bit too. CCI advertises 710 fps for their CB ammo by the way.

CCI CB Shorts - 10 shots
Hi - 907
Lo -798
Avg - 845
Group - .47"

Dynamit Nobel CB Caps - 6 shots
Hi - 1016
Lo - 894
Avg - 952
Group - .57"

Dynamit Nobel BB Caps - 5 shots
Hi - 924
Lo - 897
Avg - 908
Group - 1"

FYI, the CB caps bullets mic .222" in diameter while the BB caps mic at .220". I'm surprised they shoot as well as they do. Don't be mislead by the "6mm" on the can, it is a measure of the case length, not caliber.

Many folks are not conversant with the terminology of "caps", so I'll toss a picture of them. CB caps are on the left, BB's on the right. I ASSUME most know what a short looks like. The ammo is still available from a number of sources but today's prices are absurd. I paid around $6/box of 150 back around 1985. Today's prices run around $60-70 for the same box, or 40-48 cents per round. Curiously enough, I have an ancient but very capable Zimmerstutzen rifle of .177 caliber and ammo for that is still reasonable at about $30/100.

[Linked Image from images.gunsinternational.com]
Posted By: 700LH Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 05/07/20
Using a rifle?
Whats the projectile weight of the German ammo?

Thanks for the CCI actual FPS
T/C Contender w/20” barrel, short match chamber. As I recall the BB cap weighs 17 gr they say, but I can’t verify that. My guess for the conical is about 20.
Posted By: rem141r Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 05/07/20
i have a box of those cb caps that have been in my family since at least the 60's. i remember shooting a couple when i was a kid and they've sat since.
They'll still shoot. Note of caution however, clean the bore after doing so. Something in the primer mix is corrosive.
Posted By: tjm10025 Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 05/08/20

Dunno what it is, but over the years I've had a number of .22 rifles that were accurate with LR ammo, but none of them would shoot CB shorts (or longs), worth a damn.
Posted By: shaman Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 05/08/20
I used to use CB caps on the chipmunks out at the woodpile. They were quieter than an air rifle and used to knock the snot out of the lil rats.
CB shorts are good cat medicine from a Win 67 or 69. Quiet and very accurate.
Originally Posted by tjm10025

Dunno what it is, but over the years I've had a number of .22 rifles that were accurate with LR ammo, but none of them would shoot CB shorts (or longs), worth a damn.



Had a Rem 572 years back that was very precise with CB shorts, but otherwise my experience mirrors yours. Shorts generally fare poorly with a LR chamber. Longs....have been pretty much worthless in my experience. If you missed it, I was shooting with a short match chambered barrel.
Posted By: gunzo Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 05/08/20
I like those doggone things. Have used Aguila Colibri & super colibri as well.

But I've not done any real accuracy testing. If I hit leaves in the fall or weeds in the spring on my 25 yard berm I'm happy.
Originally Posted by CrowRifle
CB shorts are good cat medicine from a Win 67 or 69. Quiet and very accurate.

I've killed a few cats with the RWS conical version in my younger days. I shot a cat at approximately 50 yds one time, my longest kill, and it dropped in its track. I still can't believe that kill. I used to buy ammo at the corner drug store when I was about 12 years old, the good ole days.
Thanks for taking the time to report on the CB velocities.

My Grandfather's early 1960s Marlin bolt action feeds CB shorts or CB longs perfectly from its detachable magazine. I use it to occasionally shoot at coyotes behind the corrals when they hang around. At least 20 years ago I was sitting in a chair sipping my morning coffee when a coyote showed up. It dropped instantly to the shot. Turns out it was hit just behind the ear. I ranged it at 92 yds. Not bad for iron sights with a basic notched elevation adjustment. Several others were lung shot to run and die within 100 yds. Those CBs are quite effective.
Posted By: rifletom Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 05/24/20
Some years ago, I shot at a opossum with my sons Red Ryder B.B. gun. Damn thing just hissed. Out came my 39A with a .22 short CB. No more hissing. Blew that sucker clean off the fence. Have a few hundred left and DD is correct; damn things are expensive. But, loads of fun. Have a good Memorial Day weekend!
Posted By: 1minute Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 05/24/20
Digital:

Always glad to see data. Thanks,
Originally Posted by gunzo
I like those doggone things. Have used Aguila Colibri & super colibri as well.

But I've not done any real accuracy testing. If I hit leaves in the fall or weeds in the spring on my 25 yard berm I'm happy.



Hell, you sound like me. But small leaves, very small.
Posted By: Pappy348 Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 05/25/20
For some reason, any short cartridges I tried were terrible in two revolvers, but good enough for indoor practice in a couple of semi-pistols and a 14" Contender. I think I'll stick with my Crosman for such stuff unless I score a deal on a barrel like Dan has.
Posted By: stevelyn Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 05/26/20
Originally Posted by OldRooster
Originally Posted by gunzo
I like those doggone things. Have used Aguila Colibri & super colibri as well.

But I've not done any real accuracy testing. If I hit leaves in the fall or weeds in the spring on my 25 yard berm I'm happy.



Hell, you sound like me. But small leaves, very small.



I shoot banana slugs in my backyard out the window with Colibris.

I have both CB longs and shorts, but prefer Quiet .22 when things need quietly whacked harder. The Both CB versions have 29gr bullets at 710fps. The Quiet .22s have 40gr bullets at the same velocity. The noise levels are about the same.
Posted By: hookeye Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 05/26/20
CBs...........Varmints (many) sleep in the soil of one past residence.

Spot em going under outbuilding.
Go dig a hole.

Sit by the deck w rifle w CBs.
Max D was 25 yards.

Bing a coon or chuck in the noggin (shots usually 10 yards) and it worked very well.

Remington bricks of CB shorts used to be 15 bucks back then.
Saw the thread and it prompted me to did through some old stuff!

Back when I lived in Kansas in the mid-90's, I responded to an ad in the newspaper for some rifles and fishing gear and met a real neat older gentleman who was selling some older things that his kids were not interested in. He was an engineer working in the Kansas City area in the WWII era and had a pretty good job for the time. He loved target shooting and fishing and had kept many of his old "treasures" for years afterwards. I ended up buying an old, original Remington 513-T from him as well as his old fly tying kit, complete w/ wood box and supplies including vise and old feathers still in their original packaging. I also bought his handmade wood fishing box, several old baitcasting reels, and his collection of home-made wood lures that he had made and painted himself. Just as neat were all of the old supplies that he still had including old glass eyes, metal spinners for the lures, hooks, and old wood spooled colorful thead for rod wrapping, etc. Finally, he also had all of the original order forms and invoices from the ?Wilmarth Tackle Company, IIRC, where he puchased it from in the early 30's. I'll have to post a pic of some of that stuff next time I pull it out!

To get to the end of my story, after I had paid him the ~200 bucks he wanted for all of it, he informed me that there was a little bit of ammo for the .22 that I should just go ahead and take...

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

He gave me one box of the Winchester 22 C.B. caps, two boxes of the B.B. caps, and an intact full brick of the B.B. caps. I've done a little bit of research and it looks like they were made in 1945 or 1946 right after the War. I've shot a few of the B.B. caps. They are definitely "minute of squirrel" at 25-30 yards and make very little noise from my old Remington 513-S! I have never opened or messed with the full brick of B.B.s... figured a collector might be interested in those someday. Pictured is a Super Colibri for comparison. The Winchester B.B. cap sure looks more like a conical design to me. Fun stuff.
You and me might be the only people on the planet that own a 513S and T model. laugh
I actually sold the 513T about 20 years ago and bought another "S" when it turned up. I've actually had 3 of the sporters over the years. I sold one of those that had a Lyman Alaska in a Stith mount a few years back as well. Now I have my "shooter" that has been drilled and tapped for a side mount that has never hindered it's performance AND a real nice late grooved specimen that I have yet to shoot! They are far and away my favorite .22s and would probably never pass one up that came along for a decent price!

I'd probably appreciate the "T" more now with it's peep sight now that my eyes are not what they used to be!
The old 513S I have had a barrel replacement and the Model T isn't quite stock either, but rather is in an Olympic match configuration. Doesn't matter, they both shoot lights out.

Footnote of sorts, I have killed quite a few critters, mostly squirrel with the BB caps and a small number with the CB caps. For reasons not entirely clear all the BB caps killed cleanly with one shot, but the CB caps, well, about half the squirrel required a second shot. No idea why. Have whacked a number of possum and 'coons with the BB Caps also, one shot and flop.
Posted By: PatB Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 06/06/20
DD, was the short match chambered TC barrel a custom job or did TC offer it at one time?

I'd love to find one!
Pat, I ordered it from their custom shop back around '99. Fox Ridge was their brand as I recall.
Posted By: PatB Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 06/09/20
Thanks Dan..

I guess I'll stick to CB longs in a LR chamber.. I'm sure not as accurate as your set up but still quite acceptable
Posted By: JB in SC Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 06/25/20
I don’t know how many of those CB’s I shot in my Stevens 15-B, several hundred I guess.

Have a couple of bricks each of the WW and CCI CB longs will last me the rest of my life.
Posted By: hookeye Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 06/26/20
LGS has a bunch of new Rem subsonic w the CBee name
Long rifle HP.
I won't be buying anymore CB's from here on out. I used to shoot them quite a bit until I discovered the CCI quiet .22 LR's will shoot bug holes at 30 yards and make about the same amount of noise.
Posted By: ConradCA Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 07/02/20
Check out CB longs as they will fit the chamber of a 22 LR better.
I have an old Remington #6 boys rifle. What is the lowest powered stuff I can buy in .22 to shoot? It is a bit fragile but I was told I should be able to shoot it with the low powered stuff. TIA DD. Rustyzipper.
Probably CCI Quiet. I wouldn’t be afraid to shoot SV LR ammo.
I used CBs for years to kill trapped critters. Also used to make a trip every spring to shoot muskrats. Makes me want to find some and go for a walk.
Posted By: Dinny Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 07/03/20
These last two years I have shot more than 500 CCI CB Longs, 200 Aguila Colibris, 100 CCI Quiets and Quiet HPs, and recently started using the CCI 22 Quiet Autos. While the Autos do cycle a Ruger 10-22 and S&W Victory they are much louder than CB Longs. I believe that as projectile weight increases so does the powder charge.

Thanks, Dinny
Posted By: JB in SC Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 07/04/20
The Remington CBee 22 Long and Short made quite a few years back seemed quieter than the current WW or CCI versions.
Posted By: Clarkm Re: BB, CB caps vs. CB Shorts - 07/12/20
I paid $500 for a 1946 Rem 513T about 3 years ago, but have not shot it.

I have killed a lot of animals with CB shorts. IIRC, there is 0.4 gr powder in both CB short and CB long, so they make the same noise, but CB shorts are higher velocity. [Due to the higher peak pressure and higher expansion ratio from a shorter cartridge]

Lately I have been using a Benjamin BTN292WX Trail Nitro Piston 2 Air Rifle with Scope, 0.22-Calibre.
For $220 it comes with a screw on suppressor.

With Hades Diablo pellets, the stopping power is there.
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