Anyone have some? Care to tell about them?

Same species, different sizes. The burros usually apply to mexican/spanish donkeys. Usually less than 13 hds. Donkeys get up there to 16 hands if you are talking mammoth jack stock. Donkeys/burros take more patience in training. More so than a mule that takes more patience than a horse.

Their stubbornness is not really being stubborn. Just being smart as they have a high degree of self preservation. They balk at about anything until they know it won't hurt them.

They thrive on affection, but are hell on wheels if abused. Make darn good watch dogs. They are territorial and will kill small animals if they can catch them. They can live on about any type of forage. The herds of feral burros in the Southwest are known to survive winters by going back and eating their own droppings when grass is not available.They can't stand too much prosperity and will get overly fat if left on their own out on good pasture.

If you don't mind a little noise, they are fun to have around but do get noisey braying. Jacks even more so. Seems like jacks can smell a mare or jenny in heat 2 miles away. I had a neighbor here that had two minis. Cute, but noisey as all get out. Another neighbor across the valley spent over $15,000 in court fees suing her. She probably spent the same defending them. End results, she got to keep them until they died.City folks moving out here cause all kinds of trouble.

Those little mexican burros are darn stout, and make good mules. Usually identifiable by the dark colored cross on their withers and stripe down their back.

I have 13 &1/2hand saddle mule out of one that has no quit in him and had a mini team about 40 inches tall that packed and I used to pull wagons and sleighs with them.

We had pack burros, or donkeys at the Phill Mount Scout Ranch back in 59.

I had a Boy Scout troop in Albuquerque. This was back in the 60's . There was another Boy Scout camp near Cuba, New Mexico.They would lend the burros out to scout troops. I would take three of them and pack the boys food and tents in on them to the Rio Las Vacas in the San Pedro Parks Wilderness area.

They were spoiled rotten and had learned to lay down with packs every 100 yards or so.Then you had to unpack them, get them up,repack and repeat every 100 yards. They did this about three times with me.The next tine, I sent the boys on ahead with the other adult. Once they were out of sight, I went behind each one and gave it a swift kick in the butt until it stood up. It solved that problem and they never laid down again with me.

Back then,you could buy those burros for $15-$20 and they ate almost nothing, which is why Boy Scout ranches had them.

Here is that little team, mules not donkeys though.



They could pull that medium sized hitch wagon as good as that big mule.

My neighbor in Albuquerque had medium size jenny donkey. Probably about 14hds. He kept her in the apple orchard to keep kids out.She would sneak up behind you and bite you. It sure hurt because she got me once. Mothers would call and complain about the donkey biting their kids and leaving teeth marks. Once he explained the donkey was in a fenced enclosure and the kids had to climb the fence to get in. They didn't say much after that.

He borrowed one of my saw buck pack saddles and packed the tubular frame of the body of a Cessna 150 out of the Pecos Wilderness on that one donkey. About 5-6 foot on stuck out each end of the donkey. It broke my pack saddle tree, but he said the only trouble he had was staying far enough way so she could not bite him.

If you want some fun reading, try Mule Tracks: The Last of the Story, By Howard Copenhaver, or The Mule Tamer series I,II, and III by John G.Horst

When I turned 60, I knew I'd need to be looking for some kind of pack animals before long to extend my elk hunting years. I don't have room for horses. I looked into donkeys but all I could find was mini's. They're too short legged to pack much of anything. I ended up with llamas but I still think a couple good standard sized donkeys would have been better for my needs.

Probably so, but many folks don't have the patience or smarts to work donkeys.

That little team I posted were 44 inches and I packed 100 pounds on them. I am sure a smaller donkey could do the same.

The only thing I've found that donkeys are good at, is halter breaking calves. Tie a haltered calf to donkey neck rope and when you untie them after a few days, they are damn sure broke to lead.....

When I bought my 1st llamas, we were at the lady's place looking at them. She also had 3 donkeys, 2 jennies and a jack. The jack was in a corral across a driveway from the pasture with the jennies. While we were there, he got an urge for some jennie nookie. We watched him go through a wood corral fence and a barbed and woven wire fence. From what I've read, he was just being a normal jack. They're nuts.

There is fellow about five miles form me that has a string of a pack and saddle donkeys. He sure enough packs and rides them with success and could put a lot of pact strings to shame comparing them. He usually gets them from the donkeys/burros that BLM sells and has them going in a year. He has made a darn good business in making and selling all kinds of tack and gear, and specializes in saddles for them. He makes some of the best panniers I ever seen and used. Mountain Ridge Gear is the name.

Breaking calves,colts, mules to lead can sure enough be done , and they make good sheep, cattle protectors. CPW is trying them out to protect cattle against wolves in Northern Colorado. I don't know how much success they are having though. They can be used and are good for a lot of other tasks.

Around the world, they are used more than mules and horses in the poorer countries. Here in Colorado, they were the animal of choice for tours up to Cripple Creek and Pikes Peak in the mid and late 1800's. Most of the prospectors during the gold rush days used them instead of horses and mules. In the days of equine use before tractors, there were more mules in the U.S. than horses and they were all made by breeding donkeys/burros to mares.

Most know about the cartoon character Peanuts. Charles Shultz was the creator. His daughter Merideth Hodges lives around Loveland, Colorado. She came to Colorado back in the 60's with a few good jennies and a jack from her mother's ranch in California. She built a business with them breeding quality mares for mules and selling off spring from the jenneys. A fellow has to dig into his pockets real deep in his pockets to pay the stud fee from one her jacks and darn sure more for one of her mules. If a fellow don't think they are good for much, he/she ought to watch Merideth in a dressage class with one of her jacks.

Anything to, a mule can see it's back feet?

I am not sure they can actually see, while walking straight ahead, but their eyes are set wider apart than a horse's so they have wider peripheral vision.

Very rarely do they put any foot down without knowing exactly where to put it. Hence being sure footed.

They are also very accurate in terms of hitting what they kick at, and they can kick with any of their four feet. If one really means to kick you, they won't miss.

I trim mine at times using a carbide wheel on a grinder. Especially in the summer when the hooves are dry and very hard. Then I finish off with a rasp.One time I was working a front hoof and the grinder must have broken off a small piece of hoof. It hit the other front leg. With me still holding the one front foot up, the mule kicked the grinder out of my hand with his back foot.

I met the fella from Mountain Ridge Gear the year we went to Vegas for the NFR. He had a booth at the cowboy Christmas show in the convention center. Seems like a nice guy. I bought a cantle bag he makes.

Eric doesn't just SEEM like a nice guy, he genuinely IS a nice guy. Proud to call him friend.

Ditto on that. When a guy can take a wild BLM burro and turn it into a trusted pack animal, it says a lot about him.You can tell a lot about a guy by how he treats/interacts with animals. Besides that, he makes darn good tack and equipment. All of U.S. made materials

Some years ago I heard a short talk by a BLM official about the horse and burro adoption program. He said there's a lot of misunderstanding about these animals - like the lady who showed up with a halter and a bundle of carrots to pick up her new pet burro.

I have several neighbors that run angus. Each of them keep a donkey in with the herd to protect the calves from coyotes. The donkeys are very protective of the calves and will chase coyotes out of the pasture when they see them.

There's a guy in our church who used to do a lot of elk hunting until the calendar caught up with him. He bought a gorgeous black mule for packing - all 17 hands of it. When I saw it I told my wife that he wouldn't have it long. It would take a forklift to load an elk on a mule higher than his head. That's exactly what happened. He packed 1 elk and decided that 15 hands was a lot more workable.

My neighbor had an 18 hand, all black Molly mule. He named her Oprah! He stood 6'4", 290 and when he'd climb aboard to ride her, he looked small!

I had the same trouble with a 15 hd one. I traded her for a 13 hd one. Sure was a lot better. I had a couple 16 hd Tennessee Walker mules too. Same thing. Now I ride 13&1/2 hd one.

Many people, new to mules, make the mistake that they need a mule as big as the horse they were use to when a smaller mule can do the same work.

Here is a good book on mules by Walter Rickell. It's titled The Misunderstood Mule. Rickell was a friend of mine. He owned and rode saddle mules and had a couple of pack mules he used in the Sierra for deer hunting. He also wrote gun articles for a couple of the gun magazines.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154356766629?hash=item23f06157a5:g:pzgAAOSwvVxgO9Fd&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoMv9IwOPNeEfEh07va%2FPQlFqVtfVWy11K%2BNsqBdIFDhD0Zj0nlEpxgXbmSunlYqAgTb82zfgXTugKwQTWfcPhBULV8joBslyxSi%2Bvm0VPB5n61qRKg49dTFqzM00mKE38f5XKrkQ7JtD0LewRVk5N9Hpsf44IuRNAQffB3LrhAsnJqFFEtybyJ4CQvLZPxxQsYUfJQfUOQlKPyt1lbyBQxw%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6i0sv6ZYQ

L.W.

In my defense, Don, I only spoke with the gent about 20 minutes.

Glad my first impression is correct.

The only thing I know is that, on one elk hunt, the outfitter had mules. They were giants — I don’t know how many hands, but big. It seemed their withers were level with my eyes although I’m sure they weren’t that tall. I’m six feet tall.

My first thought was, “oh Lord, what have I gotten myself into..”. It was the smoothest, most sure footed ride I ever experienced. Didn’t try to bite me, buck me off, or jump over small obstacles like some horses I’ve ridden had.

There are a whole lot of folks that once they started riding a mule, never went back to horses.

Here is 16+hd Tennessee Walker mule I raised and rode years ago. Super smooth but covered a lot of country fast.



This one was only15 hds, but tough as nails. Mama was a Haflinger.



Her sister.



As I aged, gravity and old bones got the better of me and I down sized.These are the size I like now. 13&1/2 h under saddle and 13 hand packer before I had to give elk hunting up. I still get out and ride the dun mule when I can.

Nice looking mules. I worked as a guide in the Bob Marshal one fall. The outfitter Had a mix of horses and mules. All were good stock

and easy to work with but I preferred the mules.

Good mares and good jacks make good mules.The better disposition in the mare and the jack, the better disposition in the mule and that is darn important in a mule. Even more important when breeding donkeys.

Knew a gent who crossed a jenny with an Arabian.
Calm, well mannered and Arabian stamina. Melvin was awesome!

David was a farrier, a trainer and a hell of a calf roper!
The problem was, David had a bay mare mule that he roped off of!
Those old hard core quarter horse guys got madder than hell when David walked off with the pot! LOL!

I never liked Arabian mules. Too smart and that warm blood came out every once in awhile. I had the hardest, roughest ride of my life on a bucking Arabian mule.

Back in the 70's early 80's a lot of horse competitions barred mules because of they beat horses for the blue ribbons.A person will see some really good roping mules at the Bishop Mule Days every year over Memorial Day weekend.

Just for the record....
In ancient Israel, mules were a sign of royalty. King David's 70 sons rode mules. When David proclaimed his son Solomon to be his heir, he had Solomon put on his own personal mule.

I have nothing to add to this post as I am totally ignorant of mules, donkeys, burros, and horses. Llamas too. But I have to say this is one of the most interesting discussions I have ever read. Thank you gentlemen.

I had no idea a mule got that size. 18 hands is enough to need a ladder to get on. Wonder how much it weighed?

Totally agree . Interesting as heck.

I hope you guys aren't done with the stories.

I've considered getting a couple of smaller burros for packing elk. You can get pack saddle broke burros from Canon city or the honor farm I think.

old news article

They may be broke to pack saddles meaning they had one one, but not broke to packing. BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!

Yes I apologize if you inferred from my post that I didn't believe more training would be required. That's not what I intended to portray.

I am well aware that stock requires training and significant time

I was surprised at how much stronger or maybe more sure footed mules were than horses when we hunted a Colorado wilderness area. Our pack horses and riding horses would zig zag up the steep mountain trails, but I saw pack mules go straight up the mountain.

Most people wanting to get a mule, think they need one as big as the horse they are use to riding,when a smaller mule will do the same job.

I think I would strongly lean towards burros over goats or llamas if I was really interested in a small pack critter. Main reason for me is I foresee the other two being prohibited eventually in areas with wild sheep.

As I've said in a couple earlier posts, I have llamas but donkeys were my 1st choice. I just couldn't find any other than minis and those are useless for packing. Good llamas are now very hard to find and they're expensive. When I got into it 15 years ago, llamas were dirt cheap. Things have changed. Goats you can find anywhere. There are goat dairies around that always have buck kids to sell or give away. Both goats and llamas are very easy to train and pack. I've never tried donkeys to say how hard they are to train.
The issue of goats or llamas being prohibited in wild sheep areas has become a non-issue. The anti-goaters have never shown any serious evidence that disease transmission is a problem or even possible. They tried to prohibit goats here in a couple Idaho wilderness areas but couldn't get it done because they couldn't show that there was a real issue.

edit: I got curious and checked Craigslist for current llama prices. Even the cheapest potential packer will bring $500 and good ones start at about $1500. They're nuts.