Again so as not to hijack the crooked stirrup thread, I offer for consideration:

The heated conversation evoled around the question of what is propor, weight in the stirrups or sitting in the saddle.
One of the first thing novices are taught in riding classes is to ride with your heels down.With the stirrup leathers adjusted to the correct height, a rider with his heels down can exert just the right amount of pressure from his/her weight into the stirrups to do a balanced ride. Too little and the rider is teetering on top of the saddle and must use more thigh muscles to stay aboard the rider. If you watch a rider with his/her toes down,they have very little contraol of thier balance.

Differnt disciplines require more or less weight in the stirrups. Racing jockeys, except the ride from the paddock to the starting gate, have all thier weight in the stirrup. English riders when in a trot,post and also take most of thier weight off the seat to let thier knees act more like shock abosrbers.

People using western saddles have developed considerable differnces of the concept depending on the discipline, and usually, as pointed out in the other thread, arena events and riding outside usually have little correlation.

Rough country riding requires more weight in the stirrups when going down hill so one can get the center of gravity back further on the horse and the feet need to go forward.Going up hill the opposite is true,and to help the horse, you get further forward.

When dragging differnt things, a lot more weight needs to put on the near stirrup assuming you are dragging from the off side.If not, your saddle will move considerable off center.Sam ethingwhenheading cattle. When the header ropes and turns the cow, he/she needs to have that near side foot exerting a lot more pressure.

The upper body ,to me is used to convey messages to the horse,along with the legs.Sitting nore forward,you ask the horse to move more.Sitting down in the saddle is a que for the horse to slow or stop. That unperceptible movement of thebody and looking where you want to go as in a turn,ques the horse to turn left or right. Legs are used to additionally que the horse to move faster, turn ,etc

To me ,just the right amount of weight in the stirrups yields a more balancd ride,both for the horse and rider, and enables the rider to respond to unforessen movements of the horse.

Ralphie ,IMO said it best,you use your whole body and brain to ride.

Just my take on it.Right or wrong.

I grew up riding the kind of distances that most kids never see today and most of it was at a trot, and to survive when you're five, six years old and riding a trot for many miles and many hours you adapt to a style that probably isn't "correct." I ride with a pretty flat foot. I don't ride with my toes down like you see sometimes with guys in oxbows, but my foot is a little too far forward and my heels not low enough for some purists. I'm not too old to learn mentally, but after being horseback for over 55 years my body has formed in such a way that it may be too late to change physically.

MT, IMHO those guy's riding with their toes pointed down are asking for trouble, oxbow's or not. A more level foot yes, and it is harder for me to acheive a heel's down position with 'bow's, but toes down is asking to go out the front end. As to technique, the 'bow's make it easier to que your horse with your spur's, and that is the only time I think toe's should be pointed down. With flat bottom stirrup's, I probably ride with too much foot in the stirrup, but I can still more easily acheive a heel's down position.

I think the original post pretty much nailed it on the head, I may not be as old as some around here but I've been literally in the saddle before I could walk.

if you want to go really fast do you get in the pony express position? how far back should i lean to slow down, or stop. is there some special warm up streaches for that?

you don't even know enough to know when to be embarrassed.

Why don't you go elsewhere as it's been suggested? If you disagree with something, fine but just because you believe one thing doesn't make you an expert and I'm no English Teacher, but 90% of what I've read of yours really doesn't make a whole lotta sense.

Like the old proverbial saying, opinions are like [bleep]... Everyone has one and apparently we have one more around here.

I think when the proper riding techniques are discussed one has to realize than an instructor at a stable teaching a newcomer how to ride in an arena probably has principles that don't apply to those of us here who were literally in the saddle before we were walking. One learns and adapts according to the saddles, horses, country, and the riding required. If you ride incorrectly it hurts and you learn to adjust.

BTW, that "ignore" button is a wonderful feature.

apparently indeed. i'm hoping uncle saddlesores will hand out expert internet riding certificates right after the campfire stories. maybe MTrancher can tell me, how far forward do the experts lean to go really fast? and what is the different leaning back positions for slow and stop? 125 degrees and 170? just want to get some of this expert advice.

Belive me MTrancher, I am using it.

Having gotten interested in riding in my 40's I have a lot to learn about the techniques and different equipment involved. There are other forums about riding, but are geared to the more "spiritual" aspects (coth). These latest threads deteriorating is a disappointment. Cabin fever is a real condition here in Ak this time of the year. Hope this is what is going on and a little sun and outside activities will get people back to civil conversations. Thanks to all that have added good pointers to us novices.

That's for sure Mtrancher.

As a lad in the mid 50's, I rode little paint welsh pony to and from a farm I helped out on. There were no riding lessons then and it was stirckly learning how not to fall off,no matter the riding style or techinque.

Then I moved to NM and spent 10 years or so riding while hunting and a few old fellows took me under thier wing and taught me how to pack where I did some guiding, packing, and hunting in the Pecos Wilderness and San Pedro Parks area NE of Cuba NM.That riding was mostly in the back country mountains pulling pack strings, etc,Riding horses and packing mules. No great challenge, but definitely a different type of riding.

Moving to CO,I started riding mules in about 76 or so. By the early eighties, my wife and I were competing in most arena events with mules in a lot of local county events and several state fairs,including NM,CO,TX and Bishop Mule Days in Bishop, CA. At that time, you rode what I call text book riding. You rode to what the judges wanted and to see a lot of judges wanted to see differnet things, but it certainly was not mountain riding.

Duirng that time I was hauling mules out of NW NM as yearlings and weanlings,raising and training them as saddle mules. Several took winnings as reining mules and my wife was the International Side Saddle Mule rider in 1986 and national high point in 1985. Certainly riding in those events was different than riding young mules and took different techiques. While hunting,I was on green mule for every hunting season in the eighties and early nineties,

We quit showing in the early nineties as lot of the bickering ,etc. that you see in horse shows was bleeding over into mule competitions and a person gets burnt out because of it.

I them returned to just hunting, packing,and a little guiding, back to the mountains and most of my comments were directed to that type of riding. Presently I am, as you commented, into riding for comfort. I give up a little correctness for comfort. I quit packing in due to health and age and now usually ride in 6-8 miles, hunt and then ride back out to camp every day. As a comfortable bed beats a short ride any day.

Many differnt riding styles and techniques over the years, but I can truthfully say,I was only bucked off three times in my life. Twice from complete surprises of young mules and once with a mule that went south on loco weed. I never had a mule I raised buck with me but the older ones I bought sure could be a challenge.

I know what you mean, Vince.

I tell my kids that I realize I'm not necessarily a skilled and talented rider, but that I stay on through incredible strength and natural athletic ability!

In other words, You do not want to get bucked off in big bear country. And while you are laying on the ground, your horse and scabbared rifle are heading back to the trail head.

Before I learned that you take your rifle off the horse no matter what when you get off,I had a horse run of with my gun while I was taking a whiz. Finally caught her about half way back to the truck,3 miles or so.

That is no joke in griz country. Thats why I carry a side arm also.

+1.