Pretty sweet 10 yard groups huh?
I wasted 20 or so rounds trying to figure out why I couldn't hit the target at 200 (which is where my last load was zeroed for), 100 and 50 yards. I kept noticing dust fly up several yards in front of the target and several yards off to the side.
Finally I stuck the target up at 10 yards and fired away. Roughly half the bullets hit the target like they're supposed to. The other half......well ya.......Just a bad lot, I hope.

Dang, that’s rough. What’s the twist on your rifle?

Twist is 1/8.

Load is hot, but not over max according to Hornady's published data. No pressure signs at all with the brass or bolt lift.

Man, no reason they should be going crazy like that. Or at least none I could think of. I’ll listen and learn on this one.

Does it shoot a plain old tested load well? I know it sucks since it happened to you but it’s amazing that it is happening, if that makes sense.

I hear Berger makes a good 140gr VLD.

Might give that a try.

Joking aside you might have a rough barrel that is hard on jackets which possibly might explain fast expansion on game with other bullets.

Just a thought.

Good luck.

Yeah, that looks like a bad lot of bullets. I can't fathom what else it could be, as long as you've got rifling in the bore. Never seen that before. Crazy.

That's something I had not thought of before....it's a Lilja and accurate with 140 bergers and AMAXs...as well as 142 Sierras, but I have no idea about how it could affect copper jackets.

Thanks for that thought.

It shoots everything else in the same weight and B/C class just fine.
Burn's comment has me thinking about why I have had poor performance on bigger game with the 140 berger through this rifle, despite generally getting good, round groups. Lots to learn, I guess.

Wow. I’ve shot several deer with the 140 and 147 ELD-M and always had exits. Not sure what’s up here, either.

Have you checked the bullet diameter with calipers or a micrometer? They should not be keyholing like some of those did.

You might also check with Hornady.

None were key holing. The one picture looks like one or two did, but my arrows pointing to 5 different holes were from a single shot. That bullet was in pieces.

The bullets either hit going straight, or they broke up before hitting the target at 10 yards. The torn up paper makes it hard to tell, but looking at the plywood backer, some of the bigger single holes were from multiple pieces of bullets hitting somewhat close together, making it look like a single, big hole in the paper.

Yeah, they obviously 'sploded. I can't figure why other bullets would shoot fine, then these would pop, unless it's a bad batch, or maybe a marginal batch combined with a rough bore.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/hornady-147-eldm-blowing-up.7013159/page-2

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/147-eld-coming-apart.3952796/

Ya, after a little Google fu' it seems I am not the only one with this issue. I loaded 20 from a different lot and will play with them this evening.

The problem is your OAL. It’s in mm. Change it to inches, you’ll be fine.



P

It’s crazy a Lilja would tear them up that bad but I guess anything is possible. Those 147 ELDs are absolute demons out of my 6.5 CM at 2775. Never would’ve thought they’d do that.

Your rifle sucks. I could at least hit paper and close to the orange dot with my bad hornady 6.5 bullets:

That 10 shot group is better than some guys do with their good loads...



Yeah, you aren't the only one..

Crazy stuff TinyCOCK.

You tried the Scenar?

No, but that thought has crossed my mind lately for sure.

I loaded up 20 more 147s from a different lot, and played with them this evening. "Only" two of them blew up this time. The rest shot good, and the B/C is crazy awesome. Too bad my confidence in them is below ground level. Even if I can trust them to stay together to the target, I can't trust them to stay together long enough to penetrate into a critter's goodies.

I think I'll order some 139 Scenars in the next few days.

Hope the Scenars shoot. I’ve tried them two 6.5’s that shoot well and they haven’t been nearly as accurate as ELD’s, etc...

What was the MV?

Not sure, but Hornady's load data for this charge of RL22 says 2850 FPS. I am unsure what barrel length, cases or other variables were used by them though to determine that.

I should note though that based on the drop at 500 yards (6 MOA from a 200 Yard zero) from the loads of a different lot I played with last night, and crunching the numbers backwards with a ballistic calculator, the MV was closer to 3100 FPS.

Bump. I played with some more of these from a different lot again this evening. They're accurate, but about 1 in 10 is still blowing up. I may give one more lot a try, then it is back to the drawing board for a high B/C hunting bullet.

What are the odd you have a carbon build up in the throat?

Slow powders and the 6.5mm bore can really build up if given a chance.

What's you cleaning regime (carbon specific), if you don't mind me asking?

I don't have much of a cleaning regime per se.....just run a bore snake soaked with hoppe's through it 5-6 times every 100 or so rounds. Being it has no accuracy issues, I haven't put too much effort into a cleaning regime.
It is entirely possible I have a lot of carbon in the throat. I dunno.
I used H4350 in it for the first 700 rounds of 140 grain AMAX and bergers, then switched to RL22 for these heavier 147 ELDs.

I am not sure if that's helpful or not. Any suggestions based on that?

Sounds like that or a rough bore. The rifle seems to be pretty hard on bullets, IMO, both Bergers and ELDs.

Thanks Jordan. After 750 rounds, I'd think any imperfections or roughness in the bore would be lapped out, but what do I know?

I'll scrub the hell out of the bore with copper cleaner and see what gives.

Ted, is your lilja by chance a 3 groove? I've seen some lilja 3 grooves get some pretty rough fire cracking in the throat area. Those wide 3 groove lands can look like cracked pavement or dragon scales right where the reamer cuts them to give them the lead angle.did your reamer have a 1 degree 30 lead angle?

I always go with 4 or 6 or preferably 5r configurations on my builds anymore. I have an 8 twist 3 groove pacnor on a 223 ai that still shoots well but thats my last 3 groove.

The cleaning could be an issue too. You could have a carbon crud ring or some copper build up. Run several patches of boretech eliminator through it short stroking as you go. Then dry patch. Then plug the chamber with a big patch and foam the bore with wipe out foam. Lay the gun on a piece of card board overnight and then dry patch it clean the next day.

If that doesn't work look for some rem clean abrasive cleaner. Wrap a patch over a brass brush, shake the remaining clean well, put a good amount on the patched brush and then run that out the bore, take it off remove the rod put the brush back on and run it out the bore again from the breach. Do that about 10-20 times. Clean again with eliminator and dry patch then shoot it.

The rem clean is a mineral abrasive so go easy on it. I've used it in the past to work over neglected guns i bought used. I turned a 4 moa rem mtn rifle I bought in a pawn shop into a 1/2 moa shooter lapping the pitted bore with rem clean.

Bb

Thanks BB. I'll try doing that.

I scrubbed the hell out of the bore, filled it with a foaming copper cleaner twice, and scrubbed it more, running patches through it until they came out clean.

I'll try your method(s) above too.

Is it a 3 groove?

Bb

Huh....I meant to answer that.
I believe it is actually a 6 groove barrel. I have zero idea about the lead angle.

Not much help am I?

The throat and barrel are charmin squeaky clean now though. We'll see what happens but I don't know when I can get out to shoot next.

Interesting. We've shot several thousand of these now- targets, steel & meat- and never had even a hint of this kind fragility.

You are pushing them harder. But not crazy velocity. We probably average 2675-2700.

Well DAMN! I worked up a good load with that bulletin my six five swede, 2950 and 7.5 twist hasn't hurt em on the way to paper or steel yet, only use for hog or coyote smacking, still want those miserable sombitches to die fast.

The mighty 150gr Sierra Matchking waits in the wings to try next if the 147 horn fails.

My 147's outa the dreaded 6.5CM run 2700 w/RL26 and they are nasty medicine on hogs. I mostly get pass through's as well.

Well last month I scrubbed the bore like it had syphilis, multiple times with foaming copper remover, scrubbed it some more, let the foam sit for a while, scrubbed it some more, then ran plenty of wet patches through it and a bunch of dry ones too.

I fired a couple fouling shots and went to town with this second lot of 147s. About 1 in 10 still weren't making it to the target. The rest were accurate and hitting 4 inches higher at 200 yards than they were out of my dirty bore (ha!), but that's about all I can say.

I am debating about going back to the drawing board, or giving a third lot of 147s a try.

I had a 147ELDM coming out of a 6.5 PRC do that to an Axis buck.

I've had problems with some varmint bullets do the same...

have you contacted Hornady about this? My issues were the twist and velocity of some of the bullets...

I was shooting some 55 grain SPSX bullets with a one in 9 twist, what ever the velocity was ( its been quiet a while ago)
what they told me with the velocity and the barrel twist.. the bullet was designed to withstand a max of 180,000 rpms...

the velocity and twist were pushing them at 300,000 plus rpms.... they were blowing up about 12 inches out of the barrel..

dropped the velocity down and was getting what you are getting with the 147 grainers..

you said you rifle was a 6.5 / 284... I wonder if the bullet was designed for the Creedmoor with an 8 twist... and pushing it hard out of a 6.5 /284, is giving it more rpms in the barrel than the Bullet was designed to withstand...

more recently I've had the same kind of issues with the A Maxes, pushed hard out of a 22.250 with a 1 in 7 twisted barrel...

have ya tried a Sierra 130 gran Game Changer? its suppose to be a very very hard bullet, despite having a plastic tip..

also have you tried and had the same issues with the 143 grain ELD-Match?

I have not contacted Hornady. I really don't see a reason to. They're not Sierra and they didn't blow up on a deer after all.

The rifle is 8 twist and the loads are hot, but within Hornady's published charges found here: LINK. The box of bullets directly from Hornady indicates 1/8.5 twist...would 1/2" faster twist make that much of a difference? It's not like I am driving these things at 6.5 WBY Mag velocities.


I have not tried either the 130 gran Game Changer nor the 143 grain ELDM. I may try them though.

Was it a hot day? Watch that R22.

Slow them down to about 3000 fps and your troubles will go away, MAYBE ???? Rio7

A friend of mine had some go south with his 6 mm Creed. I shoot them in one of my 6.5 creeds and have never had an issue.

60s. Not hot by any stretch.

T_Inman,
If it were me, I'd abandon my efforts with that bullet. If you find one lot that doesn't blow up, what guarantee do you have that another lot won't? And how will they perform on game? But to each his own. I hope you find success!

We use the 147’s loaded in the TAP line. It is a bit slow but it’s been very accurate in al of our factory chambered Accuracy International rifles. It’s also very accurate in my Seekins SP-10 and Tikka Hunter rifles. Kills pretty good too.

ChanceD
If you are talking about Hornady Tap Ammo, I would think that over, very poor choice for hunting anything bigger than a jackrabbit. you will get more splash wounds than kills. Rio7

I’m on a Facebook group for hunting here in Alaska. There has been a pretty big discussion going on all summer long about Hornady ELD-X and Ms with piss poor results. I know the majority that have used them in that forum on animals have quit using them and gone back to Accubonds or partitions for the most part. I’m shooting 130gr ones out my 260 Rem and with good results. I have not been able find anything heavier here to try in the ELD-x or M’s so I’ve got 140 Gr Accubonda and Sierra Game changers to see how they do.

Have any of you tried the 135 gr. Hornady A-tip? only thing I have used it on is pigs, kills the hell out of them. Rio7