And threading it for suppressor use, or may just piddle around with my short barrel, and the short rifle too. Plan to remove all the gel in the stock and put a 2.5-8x36 on top. Question is, what caliber? This will be deer/hog/coyote only. 257 Roberts, .308, 7mm-08, or 6.5 Creedmoor?

Maybe consider starting with an Adirondack, already short barrel, already threaded?

-Chris

Well Adirondacks are really hard to find right now, and chopped and gutted I’d be looking at the Hunter being lighter for $400-$600 cheaper, with the same action and barrel. The cheap stock is a plus for me, I want one I can beat the crap out of without worrying about.

ChrisAU, I have cut 2 barrels to 18" and 1 to 16" threaded for can's, 6.5 PRC, 18" 308 !8" .243 16", add 5 12" to 6 1/2" for the can, Of the 3 I use the 243 the most, as a jeep gun, all 3 shoot as well as they did before I cut and threaded them, But I have not run them past a chrno, Rio7

Hunter won’t be lighter... the difference will be a couple ounces probably not enough to matter. I don’t know what removing the gel will do weight wise but it for sure make a cheap plastic hollow stock sound and feel like a cheap plastic hollow stock.

Go 308 The smaller the bore the more powder you waste out the front. Also it will seal better with the can. You will probably need to get a thread adapter those Kimber barrels are thin. The standard Kimber threads are 7/16” while most cans are 1/2” threads (.223 class) or 5/8” (.308 and up) you aren’t going to get 5/8” threads on there. So pick your poison with the other 2 and use an adapter. Kimber makes them for the 7/16” threads they use. All sorts of companies make them for the 1/2”-5/8” conversion.

I’ve done exactly what you are talking about with kimbers in .223 6.5 creedmoor, .308 .338 Federal, and fixing to chop a 30-06 and rebore it to 35 whelen.

If I could find another .223 Montana I would make it into a 300 Blackout and never look back.

Or find an adirondack in 300BLK. That would be the best ticket.

My buddies 6.5 hunter may shoot a 2in group on a good day, we've tried several factory loads, different torque settings on stock, etc. He is more of a woods hunter and bought it on impulse but still is a little disappointed in it. Joker has a little thump to it too.

here you go;

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/kimber-adirondack-7-08.96942/

You can remove the gel and replace with spray foam and net 5-7 oz weight loss. I have seen a lot of speculation that the gel is added to up the weight so that people will still view Montana's as the lighter option. And yeah I'm hoping with the chop there would be enough meat for 1/2-28 but if it must be thinner I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Doubt he still has it from 2.5 years ago.

It won't ever be used for a shot past 125-150. Most 75 and in. Mostly want a super light and compact rifle for sitting on the ground in swamps. Need to be able to toss it in jet sled for river crossings without worrying about it. I have plenty of nice rifles, just looking to go as light and compact as possible for under $1k.

Watching this thread with much interest. I have been thinking about doing the same thing myself, except possibly only to 20 inches. Always thought that Kimber got it wrong offering the Adirondack with a blind magazine. Primarily hunting deer in farm country of the East I find that I am loading and unloading the rifle a lot more and it would be better to have the advantage of a removable magazine on a short barreled rifle. Plus using the rifle as a truck gun in a state where they do not allow ANY ammunition in the weapon while in the vehicle, not even with an empty chamber, makes a removable magazine all that more praticable.


CT

Nothing wrong with the Hunter at all. I like them a lot and have one. If you want short and cheap, take a look at the Ruger American Compact. It might even be threaded.

Cartridge doesn't really matter. Since you included it, go with the Robert's.

Do it!

My 6.5 Montana is cut to 20" and threaded 1/2x28, and feels and shoots fine dropped into a Hunter stock. If I was doing it again I would cut it to 18", and I'll take an 18"-20" 6.5 over a similar .308 any day. 7mm-08 might be an interesting option as well since Kimber uses a decent twist. At 18", if you get Ecco Machine to do a cut, thread and collar job you might be able to get a 9/16x24 thread on there.

That's not speculation, it's fact. The 84M Hunters ended up being about 3/8 lb lighter than the equivalent Montana models. This was true for 84M and 84L and it was decided by the VP of sales that 8oz should be added to each stock. The added weight had to be cheap, it couldn't shoot loose, couldn't be removed easily and had to dampen sound and vibration. Originally a 2-part polyurethane rubber was added to both the wrist and the buttstock volumes which had communication via a "window". The vendor wanted to close up the window and only add rubber to the buttstock volume. Testing seemed to indicate that the change actually improved accuracy/precision. Testing over the years has also shown that the Hunter rifles tend to be more accurate/precise and certainly more consistent than the Costa Rica stocked alternatives.

I have an 84M .300 Blackout barrel if anyone's interested. It's the Adirondack type with 5/8-24 threads at the muzzle.

^ A more authoritative source you'll not find.

I really wish they made the Hunter in .223 or 6mm ARC, I'd snap one up in a hurry.

I removed 8.3oz of gel from my hunter stock starting from an original weight of 1lb15.8oz
It only takes a few minutes to remove it all.

The larger the surface area of the bullet the less velocity you’ll lose per inch of barrel removed. That being said, all the calibers you listed will exceed the needs you’ve stated.

6.5 Creedmoor is perfect for what you are doing.

That’s crazy....

If they made the Hunter without the detachable mag I might start buying those too!

I gave up detachable mags along time ago when I spent a weekend walking around in the brush looking for a steyr .243 magazine in the brush after losing it walking to the stand.

Traded that rifle in on a Kimber adirondack in .308 and never looked back

https://ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/16950.html
ChrisAU. Ruger Ranch 16" tube threaded. 5.5 lbs. .450 bushmaster. Perfect carbine for swamp creatures. Do not overlook the .450---- ---- A light Remington 7600 pump with 18" tube in .450 bushmaster would be a big seller here in the Northeast.

The 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster have piqued my interest a couple times in my search, but my suppressor is a .30 caliber and would like the option to use it.

May I ask you the reason for using a suppressor ? Other than ear protection ?

Just eat protection. I don’t want to wear ear plugs when hunting or tracking.

It makes it harder to tell where shots are coming from too. More likely to get follow ups on groups of hogs. They tend to run in circles when I’ve shot them with a suppressor as opposed to running directly away when shot unsuppressed. Just my experience YMMV.

The more I think about it, a heavy ass brush bucking bullet combined with a low power scope on one of those Rugers could be the ticket for cheap...

If you are shooting less than 200 yrds, the 308, should work for you or 6.5 might be the ticket also, I lean to the 6.5, as most of my shots on game are inside of 200 yrds, and I am not a big 308 fan. Rio7

Have had multiple groups of deer do this thing where they will one by one walk up to the dead one, ears pointed forward looking as if they are asking WTF, come on let's go, stop screwing around, we heard something. LOL

I have a bergara hunter in 6.5 creed that I chopped to 18” and shoot suppressed. My daughter shot her deer with it this year. I haven’t tried had loads in in yet because I was in a hurry before hunting season but the 129 sst in the factory superformance ammo was 2763 FPS.

That’s a fun road too. I chopped a Kimber in 338 federal, and seen some rebored theirs to 358 Winchester with good results.

My next project on a long action is a 35 whelen.

You always need another project!

Local Wally World had an Axis short barrel in 350 TOD, for around $350, IIRC. I’m not far from you in what I’m looking at for my next bolt gun.....if I was leaning small case, I might try to do a 300 HAMR. I’m leaning more to flattest inside 200 vs blast/short barrel efficiency. 6/6.5 CM are pretty efficient vs 243 in the shorter barrels, it seems. 308 is an easy button, but it’s not quite as flat. I have always liked 7-08s. Sounds like you need to find an old beat up 30-30 bolt gun, and thread it. ......but weight. Got it.

I still want to molest a Kimber Hunter at some point, but I found a Winchester XPR Stealth (16.5" barrel) in 308 locally to scratch the short barrel itch for now. Ordered a Hawke 1.5-6x44 from Doug to top it. Won't be as light as I was hoping but should make for a good swamp/tracking rifle.

If you ever do go with a Kimber Hunter just top it off with a scope and go hunting. My choice would be a 7-08 or 308. Don't chop the barrel either, 22" is perfect for a swamp rifle. I had a 20" Rem Mod 7 in 7-08 and hunting pards always complained about the muzzle blast when I shot near them. Most of my 7-08s have 22" to 22.5" barrels. And I hunt timber alot.
Son's Kimber Hunter 7-08

Old Mod 7 7-08

Have a Montana rebored to 358 win and cut to 19" that I think has the perfect feel and balance to it. Factory loads I have shot and ran on the chrono are no more than 50 fps slower with the shorter barrel.

BTW, I never handled a Hunter version and that's is the first I heard of it having GEL in it, it may be s dumb question BUT how do you remove the GEL?

I don't recall any gel in mine. I did reinforce the sling stud mounts internally with epoxy and new metal stud inserts.

The Hunter is ultralight. Almost feels like a BB rifle, lols.

Removing the gel is easy and comes out in two parts. You’ll net about 6-7oz weight savings after you spray foam the stock. Both stocks I’ve done now started at 1lb15.8oz, magazine removed, no action screws.

-First spray a little lube (WD-40/G96/etc.) on the screw heads in the recoil pad and remove the screws with a philips. The lube will keep the screw heads from catching and tearing your recoil pad as they twist out and re-oil when putting them back in later.
-Mark the rear sling stud threads on the inside of the stock and then remove and grind it down (if wanted).
-Standing the stock on end, spray some lube inside the stock. Using a long, thin shank flathead or something similar (wire coat hanger size), slide it in between the “gel” and the walls of the stock. Keep going around the circumference of the gel over and over while getting the shank as deep as you can. Let the lube penetrate all the way around.
-Pour out the excess lube and then wipe the shank of your screwdriver clean. Stab the gel as deep as you can with your screw driver and pull hard.
-Chunk number one is now out.
-Using a knife tip or thin flathead tip (my next try will just be a small dead blow), slide it in to the little gap in the grip cap and give it a small hit (not very hard) and it will pop off.
-The lube probably already penetrated through a small window from the butt stock into the grip, stick your screw driver into the gel and pull. Piece number two is now out.
-DEGREASE the stock and then fill with spray foam. Using a little WD-40 on your finger, run it around the edge of the butt stock rim and the grip rim. When the spray foam touches it, it “melts” and won’t stick to the outside or rims of the stock (if it does it will come off scraping it with your fingernail).
-Let the foam set over night as it’s expelling gases
-Trim the foam or compress it and check for hollow spots in the foam. Add more if needed.
-Glue on the grip cap and re-install the sling stud and recoil pad, lubing the screw heads/holes to avoid damage.


Feel free to PM me and I can email photos or answer any questions.

Obviously not all Hunter stocks have the gel, this one was bought about 3.5yrs ago. I had 2 of them, neither had gel. Maybe Kimber quit that practice?



Not to rain on your parade but I've never noticed a difference in sound from filling a hollow stock with spray foam. Waste of time ime.

I’m 3 for 3 with gel filled stocks.

Hopefully MCMXI will chime in and can give more info on the history of the Hunter stocks and which ones are filled or not.

It’s easy enough to tell just by holding them and feeling the weight being quite far back or by knocking on them. They’ll sound pretty solid and then the last 2” in front of the recoil pad will sound hollow.

As far as spray foam goes, I noticed they are a little quieter and quite a bit stiffer after filling them but to each their own. I’m averaging about 1.3oz of weight in spray foaming after removing an average of just over 8oz of removed gel.

Every Hunter stock was and still is supposed to have ~ 8oz or rubber added. If you had two that had no PT FLEX added then you're a special case.

Tag,
This is making me want to get a hunter in 7-08

Every Hunter stock is supposed to be filled with ~8oz of rubber. This is done by the vendor in Syracuse that makes the stock, and using a machine that Kimber paid for that mixes part A and part B of the rubber compound. The grip cap is supposed to be ultrasonically welded onto the stock after the rubber is added. A plug in conjunction with a specific stock angle are used to aid in the filling process. Is it possible that some stocks left Syracuse without having fill added ... yep. Is it supposed to be that way .... nope.

Thanks for the daily lesson. My assumption was that they are all (supposed to be) filled as all of mine have been so far.

Maybe? The rifle was ordered new, it's first stock arrived with the grip cap broken off so Kimber asked me to send it in on their dime. They put a new stock on it and shipped it back. Maybe under warranty they forgot to fill it with gel? No complaints, it's very light and shoots well.

There is no maybe. I don't know how I can state this any clearer. The vendor in Syracuse hires and fires employees based on demand, and sometimes they have lazy morons running a piece of equipment with 10 minutes of training. There were more than a few instances where the grip caps weren't welded on properly and a change was made to the design to reduce the chance of failure. The vendor tries to get their employees to do as much as possible when they're running the injection molding equipement waiting for the part. They don't want the employee standing idle for 45 minutes every hour so they try to set up workstations where other things are being done such as installing sling swivel studs, screwing on butt pads, welding grip caps etc. Kimber doesn't make the Hunter stocks or fill them with rubber. That's handled entirely by the vendor who ships the stocks to Kimber based on demand. If you got a stock without rubber it was a mistake ... end of story.

The vendor who makes the stock also makes the glass filled nylon 6,6 magazine parts such as the floorplate, follower and magazine catch. Kimber only uses two magazine springs for all rifles, although a third prototype spring was ordered in very limited quantities for the .300 Blackout. There was no entertaining the idea of having a new spring being designed for the Hunter magazine because spring design is expensive so it was a case of use what we have. The magazine tube is made by another vendor in Connecticut who is well known for making magazines. I laugh when I see comments that the Hunter stock has a lot of flex or the trigger guard is prone to breaking. People that make those comments don't know $hit from sugar and clearly haven't looked at or handled other 20% glass filled polypropylene stocks or tried to break the trigger guard.

Whether unintentional or otherwise I don't consider the lack of gel to be a mistake. The vendor did me a favor ...end of story.



I'll add instead of gel the stock had a rolled up piece of foam sheeting snugly fit into the butt stock to dampen hollow sound I guess. I could remove the pad and show you but it's not worth my time, and a non issue. Kimber also issued a second spare magazine at no charge when they returned the rifle. Great customer service btw.

you need to post that on the light rifles thread!!!

That's an entirely different situation. If you're happy that no rubber was added that's great but it's not intentional, that's all I'm saying. For the record I was opposed to adding any significant weight to the Hunter stock but engineers are at the bottom of the ladder when it comes to the big decisions.




This keeps getting weirder but as long as you're happy with what you have it's all good.

ChrisAU: My LGS has a previously owned (won at the NRA Banquet) Kimber Hunter for sale. The gun is unfired and comes with all paperwork and box - I was told it never left the shop but was consigned there by the winner.
It is the stainless model with removable magazine feature and the pleasing tan/beige fiber-glass stock. Sadly it is in caliber 30/06 which is not on your list (as yet?).
The asking price was IIRC $625.00 - no sales tax in Montana.
If you are interested the shops number is 406-683-9844.
Good luck with your project.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

If anyone's interested, I have quite a few Hunter stocks for sale, both 84M and 84L, and magazines for both. I even have one 84M Hunter stock with an Open Country finish. The 84M are all FDE but I have FDE and Northwood Brown 84L stocks.
PM me if interested.

Here's another one, the extra magazine they sent me has a different follower than the one that came with the rifle:


Rifle functions fine with both (7-08). Guess they make refinements all the time.

Keep in mind I'm just a customer and they are never right.

Out of coincidence. I weighed my 7-08 “hunter” today and it comes in at the same 5lb11.5oz as yours (MtnHtr).

Nice!

Well, the Winchester didn't scratch the itch, not even a little. Ordered a Hunter from Whittakers...in 243. I figure the baby caliber will help with the recoil on a super-ultra light rifle.

Current for sure plan is TI bolt handle, TI action screws, shorten fore-end 1.5" or so, sand and paint, Talley1" low rings.

Variables I haven't made my mind up include scope (would realllly like to find a 2-7x27 VX-2), shortening the LOP and maybe doing a flip flop butt pad, and just how short I want to go with the barrel. 18" seems the common route, but I'm not adverse to 17" or 17.5". Hmmmm

How does Kimber twist their .243s?

1/10

Keep in mind, this rifle will never take a shot over 150 in the field. Likely never over 75.

I'm making it as light as I can, because, I can. Just a project rifle.

All that suggests a trip to JES for a rebore to 358 !?! That’d make it real light and be awesome fer short shots!!!!!

I'm all ears, what is JES?

http://www.35caliber.com/

He can make the hole in your rifle barrel bigger. Bigger hole= less weight

If going for ultra light weight for a walk around rifle. I’d do that. My favorite montana chop job is a .338 federal at about 17”

One thing you will instantly notice when chopping barrels is muzzle blast.

The smaller the hole the more powder is burning outside of the barrel.

The 17” 338 federal isn’t loud at all. The 18” 6.5 creed is a head ringer. My daughters 20” .22-250 is also a very loud rifle.

Recoil doesn’t matter from field positions. Sound always matters if you don’t have some sort of protection.

If you have a suppressor. ( I think I saw that earlier in the thread) I’d go the largest caliber that would work on your suppressor and the shortest barrel you can. I like to start at 17” or so. In case the smith screws up your threads you can always cut at the shoulder and do it again.

I’ve had 2 factory rifles with non-concentric threads. So I like a little bit of insurance. Baffle/end cap strikes are no good.

Yessss...I knew I had seen Luke Moffat do that to a Montana on Rokslide. Local smith wants $175 to cut crown and thread...hell for another $100-$200 I can have a better short range caliber and less weight and even more uniqueness...yepppp. Will update as I go.

Holy chit batman here's my ultra lite 9.3x62 project. 250 Accubonds at 2650 can't have that much recoil can they?

Mjduct beat me to it.

Nice thing about 35 is there are bullets with a wide range of frangibility ie those built for .35 Rem to .358 Norma so you can have varmint or big game performance if you like to play like that.

I’d look hard at 338 Fed as he suggested. Another place that’ll rebore is here:

https://cutrifle.com/reboring.html

Good luck; sounds like a great project!

Talked to Jes today, it’ll be on the way to him Wednesday. Pumped, thank you guys for the suggestion. I wanted a short, light brush/tracking rifle...this will be astoundingly perfect for the role.

Always fun spending someone else’s money man I Home you love it I’m excited to hear a report it’ll be a thumper!

I think you are gonna like that. A lot more than a featherweight short barrelled .243

The .338 fed Montana is my go to rifle. Nothing from 3 feet to 300 yards is safe.

I haven’t played with a 358 Winchester but you can load pistol bullets cast lead, elephant solids and all kinds of other cool stuff. Luke Moffett from Rokslide is on this forum as well, good guy same kind of looney as us just you and I are on the gulf on Mexico and he is up in Alaska! We’re trying to drop weight to not sweat ourselves to death, Luke is trying to carry less weight cause he has to wear 30# of clothes to not freeze half the time

Hornady .358 200 grain SP.

Hint....

Well well well

Had a package from JES today.

Threw the action into the stock at lunch, will put it all together tonight.

This is with a homemade sling, Spartan bipod/tripod adapter, shortened rear sling stud, titanium rear action screw, gel removed from stock and grip, fore-end shortened 3-1/8" and the remolded using JB plastic weld, granite paint, 16.5" barrel, TI Ascent bolt handle, Loopy 2.5x20 with Alumina obj cap in Talleys, and a mag full of 200gr Winchester soft points.

And yes my pool table/hunting season work bench is filthy.







Think I'll sew the straps on the sling so I can ditch the ladder locks.

Rifle looks great. Overall weight is impressive. You’ll have to let us know how it shoots.

You could replace the sling studs with filler screws and the sling with a QD stone glacier pack sling?

Thanks and will do. This will be carried without a full size pack for the most part, hence the sling. A lot of my whitetail hunting takes me through brush that can require both arms to navigate. If I am backpack hunting I do remove slings and use a Kifaru/Kuiu hybrid system on my pack that works wonderfully.

I want to know how the recoil is on a light 358 win

Your gonna love that man. Both mine are 20”, gonna be a handy buck hammer

Yep tough to top it for sure

Will report back after this weekend. I'm sure its not a mouse, but I bet its not too bad. But I've never been one to complain too much about one. Its not an ultra mag, its a short action with a really big hole in a very short barrel.

It may be managable but its got to thump in a rifle that light. I think you were extremely wise to choose a 308 or larger bore size on your project. At least your in the sweet spot for barrel length/bore diameter/real world performance. This is a cool project.

My ultralight .308 has some stout recoil shooting 180’s. Very manageable but a range session is noticed.
I’m sure the .358 will get your attention though like you said. It’s not an ultra mag.

Awesome rifle. Looks slick as can be. Congrats.

Very nice setup especially considering the $ and time involved in it when compared to a build from the action up.....saved a lot of time and $. Nice!

I've got a .358 win on a M7 action with 21" Douglas #3 in an Edge fill Mt Rifle stock. The recoil is noticeable but it's not brutal shooting 200 grain pills.....to me it's about like a 30-06.

Shootin groups with a 5.25 lb rifle and fixed 2.5 power scope is hard lol. But, managed to get a few rounds few it Sunday morning and the factory Winchester soft points managed 1.75" or so at 100. Which is plenty. Hunting with it this evening where longest shot might be 45 yards or so. Recoil is manageable too, after 5 shots I knew it was going off but I had no adverse comments on recoil.



Here it is next to a regular sized hunting rifle. 22" Savage 270, first rifle I ever bought.

I like the way that turned out!!!

Great build. With some ammo shopping I bet you can get it to MOA.

I know it's been a year this post, but are Kimber parts still available? Thanks. LHS