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I've got a couple friends here who have recently expressed an interest in hunting,and aquiring a proper firearm. Neither is rich, one is expecting his first child and the other just had his 4th, so neither has a bunch of extra money laying around. They have asked me for advice, but I'm a little out of the loop on current budget rifles. I know the Axis is generally accurate but have heard the triggers are awful,mag is [bleep], and ergonomically not very good. Then there's the 783, Winchesters XTR, Mossberg MVP and Ruger American. Keep in mind we are in the people's republic of Canada, so the prices are somewhat higher here. I would like to steer them to a cheaper Tikka or a Vanguard, but both of those are usually about $200 higher than the other mentioned offerings. What would you guide them towards?
Perhaps begging the issue if your cogitation parameters are "new". But I'd check out Simpson & the great Husqvarna rifles I understanding flowing from a more intensively gun regulated Sweden disposing! The play between Real wood & steel versus plastic & alloy.
Just my take.
Happy New Year & Stay Safe up there!
John
I was beginning to wonder if they sell used rifles there in canada aye...
Ruger American is a pretty good bet if buying new is of importance.

These guys do pretty good reviews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oX45J2RU4Q
Under $350 probably won't apply in Canada, as it doesn't really anymore in the US either d/t the current buying frenzy.
Their top choices in the under $750 category are Weatherby Vanguard, Bergara b14, and Tikka in that order.
I'm assuming supply of ammunition is as bad there as it is here. It might boil down first to what they can find for ammunition, then what they can get to shoot it in. The current and foreseeable situation has unfortunately turned choosers into beggars.
I'ver personally had good experiences with RAR's, and EXCELLENT experiences with the discontinued Marlin X7 guns.

One RAR grouped shots to "B+/A-" accuracy, but the magazine was temperamental. Another came at $250 delivered, NIB, and shot sub-3/4" with Federal Blue Box ammo.

2 Marlin X7L's and 2 Marlin X7S's have shot exceptionally well with multiple loads, and functioned flawlessly in the field. If you're able to find them in your area, I'd try these first.

FC
For features, fit, and finish, the Win XPR is way underrated. Same barrel and trigger as a M70. Bolt is coated. Stock is decent (no stock on a $440 rifle is gonna blow you away).
Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT
I'm assuming supply of ammunition is as bad there as it is here. It might boil down first to what they can find for ammunition, then what they can get to shoot it in. The current and foreseeable situation has unfortunately turned choosers into beggars.


I've been told there is no ammo shortage in Canada. They're not gearing up for civil war right now because they are reasonable human beings
Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT
I'm assuming supply of ammunition is as bad there as it is here. It might boil down first to what they can find for ammunition, then what they can get to shoot it in. The current and foreseeable situation has unfortunately turned choosers into beggars.


I've been told there is no ammo shortage in Canada. They're not gearing up for civil war right now because they are reasonable human beings


Not to derail, but "reasonably" human beings watched the riots last year, watched how they were (and were not) handled, and are planning for the worst, hoping for the best.
TC Venture in WeatherShield! 30-06, 308 or 270. If you want to get fancy, CDNN had NIB 6.5 Creedmoor WeatherShields for $399. I had one so I bought a 223, came with free shipping, rings, sling and swivels, $404, maybe shipping was $5.00.
SBS96
Mauser M18?
I've been around multiple RARs and they have all shot well. There are quite a few aftermarket accessories available if that is of interest to them.

I purchased 2 Mossberg Patriot Predator rifles for my daughters to use in place of my nicer rifles. They shoot around 1.25" with factory ammo and have given me no issues.

Howa 1500 rifles are a great value, though some folks dislike the Hogue stocks they use. Also, consider the Weatherby Vanguard which is essentially the same rifle with a better factory stock.

If you can order from Europtic the Mauser should be a consideration.

A used Tikka should be a consideration if you can find one.
Originally Posted by clockwork_7mm_gator
For features, fit, and finish, the Win XPR is way underrated. Same barrel and trigger as a M70. Bolt is coated. Stock is decent (no stock on a $440 rifle is gonna blow you away).

^^^^ This. ^^^^

Very accurate, too.
cant go wrong savage axis
Originally Posted by goalie
Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT
I'm assuming supply of ammunition is as bad there as it is here. It might boil down first to what they can find for ammunition, then what they can get to shoot it in. The current and foreseeable situation has unfortunately turned choosers into beggars.


I've been told there is no ammo shortage in Canada. They're not gearing up for civil war right now because they are reasonable human beings


Not to derail, but "reasonably" human beings watched the riots last year, watched how they were (and were not) handled, and are planning for the worst, hoping for the best.



Many of them also went through previous ammo shortages, too, and decided not to put up with them again - hence stockpiling is fairly common. I'm guilty.
Originally Posted by seattlesetters
Originally Posted by clockwork_7mm_gator
For features, fit, and finish, the Win XPR is way underrated. Same barrel and trigger as a M70. Bolt is coated. Stock is decent (no stock on a $440 rifle is gonna blow you away).

^^^^ This. ^^^^

Very accurate, too.

Yes. Mine was sub-MOA with factory Hornady.
The Weatherby Vanguard S2 at 500 bucks is the most for your money. The axis and ruger american stocks are horrendous, the action on the axis leaves a little to be desired. The Vanguards action is smooth, the stock feels like a rifle, the trigger is awesome and they are accurate.
Unless its a custom walnut stocked Mauser I wouldn't buy another hunting rifle, then Tikka T3...
They are 2-3 times more expensive in Europe and in Finland where they are made, compared to the US.


Its basically a sporterized Sako TRG sniper rifle.
Stupid simple and great trigger.. that actually works in [bleep] conditions!
Integral rail for mounts.
Slick and great feeding.
Simple recoil lug, that actually works..
Uses Sako barrels.
Upgrade the stock and bottom metal if you are a rifle looney..
I bought a T/C Compass in 6.5 Creedmoor to try out the round and found it to be extremely accurate. I liked the feel of it better than the Ruger American personally. It was cheaper than the rest also
My vote is Ruger American. I have one in the rancher model .223. Very accurate and inexpensive enough that you are not always worried about it.
The RAR I had was accurate but I had to do some serious work on forend to float the barrel and the stock was flimsy/plasticy. The Sauer 100 I had was accurate but heavy and long lop that was difficult to shorten. The Vanguards I've had were accurate but overly clumsy. The XTR I have is accurate, not too heavy, not too light. The 26" barrel is a bit long but overall a good thing for 300 WM. Trigger needed work to smooth and lighten but $85 is not a bad thing considering...so far my favorite. Accurate is 1/2to 3/4 btw.
Originally Posted by hookeye
Mauser M18?



Great guns for the money
Originally Posted by bmoney
The Weatherby Vanguard S2 at 500 bucks is the most for your money. The axis and ruger american stocks are horrendous, the action on the axis leaves a little to be desired. The Vanguards action is smooth, the stock feels like a rifle, the trigger is awesome and they are accurate.


Just picked up, and set up, a VG Accuguard in 6.5-300 Wby. I got it for $729. I hope it is even half as accurate as my Accumark. If so, it will be well worth the money and then some. Just waiting on some ammo to arrive this week to find out.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Originally Posted by MarineHawk
Originally Posted by bmoney
The Weatherby Vanguard S2 at 500 bucks is the most for your money. The axis and ruger american stocks are horrendous, the action on the axis leaves a little to be desired. The Vanguards action is smooth, the stock feels like a rifle, the trigger is awesome and they are accurate.


Just picked up, and set up, a VG Accuguard in 6.5-300 Wby. I got it for $729. I hope it is even half as accurate as my Accumark. If so, it will be well worth the money and then some. Just waiting on some ammo to arrive this week to find out.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



I think you need either higher ceilings or lower floors. Great moose
Howa 6.5 man bun I have is in a different class than my Ruger Americans, Savage Axis, and Mossberg 100ATR.

The three position safety alone makes it worth the extra weight to me.
Honestly the list of not to buys is shorter than should buy. Everyone has their favorites. If cost is the primary driving factor, find a dollar amount they can afford, ($550 CAN let's say). Then go with a common caliber with reasonably priced ammo that will take the game you want (30-06, 270 medium to larger game or 223, 22-250 for smaller game).

Last piece scope (or no scope in the case of a light lever 30-30 say). There are other things to consider but but let's stop there. A good quality scope is important. Here again afford what you can, you can always upgrade later.

Me/myself/personally in the "budget" rifle category, I do have several Savage Axis II. These rifles for me represent calibers that I want to own and shoot but I may not take hunting. For me (and I do reload), each and everyone of my rifles shoot .5 MOA or better. There are a ton of aftermarket replacement barrels for Savage (side note nothing against the RAR but if you're interested in barrel swaps these tend to he pricer but still great rifles). There are aftermarket stocks and chassis systems. The Axis II cones with an AccuTrigger that is adjustable and has a clean break and if you don't like it you can always upgrade.

I would be confident in killing an animals with any of my budget rifles. YMMV

HaYen
Originally Posted by goalie
Howa 6.5 man bun I have is in a different class than my Ruger Americans, Savage Axis, and Mossberg 100ATR.

The three position safety alone makes it worth the extra weight to me.


ALL good choices!!
Originally Posted by MarineHawk
Originally Posted by bmoney
The Weatherby Vanguard S2 at 500 bucks is the most for your money. The axis and ruger american stocks are horrendous, the action on the axis leaves a little to be desired. The Vanguards action is smooth, the stock feels like a rifle, the trigger is awesome and they are accurate.


Just picked up, and set up, a VG Accuguard in 6.5-300 Wby. I got it for $729. I hope it is even half as accurate as my Accumark. If so, it will be well worth the money and then some. Just waiting on some ammo to arrive this week to find out.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


I've never met a VG that couldn't shoot. A problem for some is the weight. I personally don't care about weight but I'm not hiking up mountains. Something else to consider I guess.


@MainHawk that's a beautiful gun
Originally Posted by xxclaro
I've got a couple friends here who have recently expressed an interest in hunting,and aquiring a proper firearm. Neither is rich, one is expecting his first child and the other just had his 4th, so neither has a bunch of extra money laying around. They have asked me for advice, but I'm a little out of the loop on current budget rifles. I know the Axis is generally accurate but have heard the triggers are awful,mag is [bleep], and ergonomically not very good. Then there's the 783, Winchesters XTR, Mossberg MVP and Ruger American. Keep in mind we are in the people's republic of Canada, so the prices are somewhat higher here. I would like to steer them to a cheaper Tikka or a Vanguard, but both of those are usually about $200 higher than the other mentioned offerings. What would you guide them towards?


I’d go to the used gun rack and look for an older Remington 700 in 270 or 30-06. Better than most new guns, and cheaper. May even come with a scope.
Originally Posted by 338rcm
Originally Posted by hookeye
Mauser M18?



Great guns for the money


Great gun period
Originally Posted by HaYen
I've never met a VG that couldn't shoot. A problem for some is the weight. I personally don't care about weight but I'm not hiking up mountains. Something else to consider I guess.

@MainHawk that's a beautiful gun


Thanks HY. I actually wanted the heavier #3 contour bbl on the Accuguard. I don't want to carry any more weight than necessary, but my .340 Wby Accumark, which has the same barrel, is the most accurate rifle I ever have shot. So, I'm just sticking with the one that took me to the dance, and hoping for the best.
Originally Posted by JBabcock

I’d go to the used gun rack and look for an older Remington 700 in 270 or 30-06. Better than most new guns, and cheaper. May even come with a scope.


Half my rifles were purchased used and still shoot great. And they were much less expensive than new. Includes Ruger, Remington, Savage, Marlin, multiples of each except for Remington.
Originally Posted by MarineHawk
Originally Posted by bmoney
The Weatherby Vanguard S2 at 500 bucks is the most for your money. The axis and ruger american stocks are horrendous, the action on the axis leaves a little to be desired. The Vanguards action is smooth, the stock feels like a rifle, the trigger is awesome and they are accurate.


Just picked up, and set up, a VG Accuguard in 6.5-300 Wby. I got it for $729. I hope it is even half as accurate as my Accumark. If so, it will be well worth the money and then some. Just waiting on some ammo to arrive this week to find out.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



Beautiful rig you go there.
Originally Posted by bmoney
Beautiful rig you go there.



Thanks BM. I just hope it shoots. Gotta wait 'til Thursday or Friday to find out.
Im seeing a small handful of brand new Marlin XLS7s in my area, most in the 329-339 price range
Ruger American
Xxclaro, I have had great success with the vanguards.

Some of the husqvarnas on Tradex are nice. All will need some love before they are ready to go.
Curious what advantages besides lighter weight the Ruger American has over the Howa or Vanguard.
The best budget rifle I’ve seen is that $500 Mauser M-12 I’ve got on the way. Hard to beat that.
I have 2 of the Vanguards myself, and like them. I wouldn't hesitate to buy used for myself if I found something I like, but I don't think either of these guys would be inclined to shop around for a used gun.
Used is the way to go.

JC Higgins model 50 , commercial FN Mauser 98 action, 270 Win or 30-06. Best $400-500 you can spend on a rifle. Add a $100 Timney trigger and a used 4x scope (<$100, ie B&L Balfour, Weaver K4-1 microtrac, or Japan-made Bushnell Banner)_ and you have a high value outfit that never takes s takes a backseat to rigs costing twice the price.

Howa 1500 -actioned rifles are found under Mossberg 1500 and S&W 1500 labels. Great action, as well as current Howa 1500 and Weatherby S2 Vanguards.

I've.seen interesting rifles lately for good prices: BSA, Rem 788, push feed Win model 70. All were in the $400-450 range.

Of " current new budget rifles," I couldn't tell you. Not too impressed with them. This is a weird time for gun buying. Seems like there are crazy high asking prices, and not much actual selling. Best time to buy a rifle is in the dead of winter. Christmas credit card bills and heating bills come in. Covid19 affected employment/seasonal workers need money. Firearms will likely pop up for sale with interesting price tags.

I just swapped a Marlin 1894 Marlin 44 mag today for beautiful running, low-hour Honda 4-stroke 8 hp long shaft outboard and two plastic tanks with hoses. I got the better part of that deal. Weird times.
A Tikka T3 used would be a good move. The JC Higgins Model 50 is another solid choice provided you can inspect it in person and make sure the stock is not cracked and it is in solid working order.
Jeez Mr. Hawk, I hope you don't sleep walk!
I like my Vanguard S2 and Mauser M18 and believe these are the best of the budget rifles available. The T/C Compass 2 has a much improved trigger over the earlier version and is accurate. The Compass doesn’t feed as smoothly as I would like but cost a couple hundred dollars less than the others.
M12 or M18? If really m12, link please?
xxclaro;
Good evening to you sir, I hope the weather on your side of the big hills isn't too bad and that all is well with you and yours or at least as well as can be.

Honestly while you've indicated a reluctance to shop used, it's by far the most economical way to get into hunting, especially now that hunting season is over, Christmas bills will be coming in and as new models come out the "rifle churners" will be looking to do a little "out with the old, in with the new".

I've personally bought and sold firearms coast to coast on canadiangunnutz and that'd be one place to look.

If possible first, they should handle a few rifles to see what fits them best as most of us didn't come out of the mold the same shape and what fits someone 6'6" with a neck like a stork will likely not be best for more Neanderthal shapes such as I've been sporting my whole life.

As to brands, we've had very good results with Ruger Americans shooting very well, having decent triggers and barrels which don't foul quickly. I want to say between myself and some shooting friends there's a half dozen or so and all have been good that way.

The Savage is not a bad way to go, but some of them seem to have rougher barrels nowadays and might foul up a bit faster than a hammer forged barrel might.

I've heard good things about the Mossbergs, but have no direct experience with them so can't say.

As my friend GRF mentioned, sometimes Tradex has some wonderful deals on Husqvarna's coming in from Sweden - get one already drilled and tapped for sure - but they can be real gems. Again that's used and I'm aware of that.

Since they're guys, they'll likely want to get some sort of artillery piece rather than a .308, .30-06 or .270. If at all possible, be a good friend and talk them into one of the aforementioned as a first arm and then they can get into the multi magnums later if they desire - you know or not. wink

The last time we were evacuated for a forest fire, I said to my wife that if the place burned down I'd not build another belted magnum. Since the place didn't burn, I kept the ones we've got, but I don't really believe they're that much more "terminal" on game - even big northern moose - than say an '06 with good bullets.

Anyways, hopefully that made some sense and was useful. If I can be of any help or use to you by all means give me a shout and I'll do my best to help out.

All the best to you and yours this year sir and good luck getting your buddies into hunting.

Dwayne
Originally Posted by xxclaro
I've got a couple friends here who have recently expressed an interest in hunting,and aquiring a proper firearm. Neither is rich, one is expecting his first child and the other just had his 4th, so neither has a bunch of extra money laying around. They have asked me for advice, but I'm a little out of the loop on current budget rifles. I know the Axis is generally accurate but have heard the triggers are awful,mag is [bleep], and ergonomically not very good. Then there's the 783, Winchesters XTR, Mossberg MVP and Ruger American. Keep in mind we are in the people's republic of Canada, so the prices are somewhat higher here. I would like to steer them to a cheaper Tikka or a Vanguard, but both of those are usually about $200 higher than the other mentioned offerings. What would you guide them towards?


I see that some posters are recommending rifles that are available in the US, with the border closures , the customs hassle, and you having to use an importer prices can get costly pretty quickly.

Given the current buying frenzy I would find a Ruger American or a Howa in the chambering the friend wants. The Ruger American and Howa sporters I have shot performed well enough for general hunting and they make good trade material if he wants to move up in the future, Both are reasonably priced, both have reputations for adequate accuracy. To me the Howa is a bit heavier and ill balanced but I think they may be a better built rifle than the Ruger American. If they handle them that should make the decision easier.

Good luck - drover

p.s. - if they can come up with the extra $200 the Tikka T3X is what they should be saving for.
Originally Posted by seattlesetters
Originally Posted by clockwork_7mm_gator
For features, fit, and finish, the Win XPR is way underrated. Same barrel and trigger as a M70. Bolt is coated. Stock is decent (no stock on a $440 rifle is gonna blow you away).

^^^^ This. ^^^^

Very accurate, too.


Count me as another that is impressed with the XPR. Other than weight, I like the design features compared to some other budget rifles.
Well first things first I allways say. Have both of them buy big boxes of condoms. Guns are cheap compared to kids.. maintain the condom habit so you can afford the ammo and tags. Good luck.mb
Originally Posted by Jericho
Im seeing a small handful of brand new Marlin XLS7s in my area, most in the 329-339 price range


Anyone who likes the ease of barrel swapping on Savage 110 series rifles, should llike the Marlin X guns, as they use the same barrel shank diameter and thread specs, so any barrel that will fit a small diameter shank Savage specs action will fit on a Marlin X gun. I find the aesthetics of the Marlin X guns to be superior to those of the average Savage 110 series rifle. I've swapped a number of Savage, Stevens, and Savage specs barrels onto Marlin X actions.

I have enough X guns on hand to meet my needs, but I'd be sorely tempted to buy a new stainless X gun if I found one priced under $350.
I have purchased both a TC Compass and a Ruger American. Both were good values.
I have shot a Mossberg Patriot as well, and would put them in the same class.

Right now, I'd lean towards the TC Compass. I like the safety and the design of the mag.
https://cva.com/product-line/cascade/

CVA CASCADE

ONLY RIFLE WITH A 14 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE.
Originally Posted by Fotis
https://cva.com/product-line/cascade/

CVA CASCADE

ONLY RIFLE WITH A 14 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE.

After handling a new CVA Cascade, I would put it at the top of the bargain rifle class.
Originally Posted by BC30cal
xxclaro;
Good evening to you sir, I hope the weather on your side of the big hills isn't too bad and that all is well with you and yours or at least as well as can be.

Honestly while you've indicated a reluctance to shop used, it's by far the most economical way to get into hunting,...

Dwayne


As others have pointed out, a lot of rifles in my stable were "new to me" purchases and I love each and every one; never regretted a single purchase. I did sell one rifle (only one in my life) and it was a Muzzleloader. I sent it to the manufacture to have them give it the once over to make sure I wasn't selling a worn out, potentially dangerous, firearm. I always get my rifles checked out by a smith. NEVER had an issue ... except ammo ... I need to win the lottery or something.


Originally Posted by ponderosa11
Curious what advantages besides lighter weight the Ruger American has over the Howa or Vanguard.


I've shot all three and a few others, in the accuracy department, I can't tell the differences. As far as fit and finish, there are some I would pick over the other but if it were me it would come down to cost and what I was willing to pay. The early version of the RAR's and Marlin that I shot didn't have as smooth an action. The newer ones may be better. I've never had an issue with the Vanguard or Howa. With the exception of one other in my family, no one cares for the Vanguard or Win XPR because of its weight. Its not a problem for me and actually prefer a little heft.
Originally Posted by m_stevenson
Originally Posted by Fotis
https://cva.com/product-line/cascade/

CVA CASCADE

ONLY RIFLE WITH A 14 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE.

After handling a new CVA Cascade, I would put it at the top of the bargain rifle class.

They sold a zillion 450 single shots here in MI they seem to shoot very well
And thier muzzleloader shoot well

I would like to check out the Cascade on 308
Hank
TC Compass. I bought a 270 for my daughter to deer hunt with. Shoots under 1 inch. No complaints here.
+1 for the M18
I have a Vanguard s2 in 243 that I'm very happy with. My nephew has a Savage Axis2 in 308 that shoots well under 1" even with that toy stock it has. Drives me nuts how well it shoots plain 150gr core-lokts. Brother bought a 783 Remington. He regrets that - much. Things falling apart in his hands. He's had so many issues he won't sell it because he'd feel guilty later for doing that to someone.
Yeah I have been around several of the budget bolt action rifles and they all Have shot good but the one that impresses me as being built the best is the CVA Cascade....Good luck.....Hb
Best budget rifle I ever bought recently was a Vanguard deluxe 30-06 for 383.00 cash tax and all WM closeout. Of what I have seen a Vanguard is the best cheap rifle going right now. They are heavy though.
I have 3 of them and they are all moa shooters. Smooth bolt. Triggers decent.
I like my Howa rifle a lot. Vanguards and Howas are both awesome. I know it's mostly in my head, but I do not like the cheap feel of the other budget rifles and would find myself wanting to upgrade. I don't get that feeling with my Howa.

On the other hand, it is a heavy rifle, especially with a 20oz SWFA scope on it.
I’d give the Mauser M18 a go - especially since they can be had for under $450.
Is the m18 nitrided?
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