Primary use is hunting, secondary SHTF. What say you?

Kimber Montana if you can find one. M70 second ...

Yep. I was looking at the M70.

I also looked at the Ruger Gunsite Scout, and I like the concept, but that barrel is awfully short at 16" and I don't think I want another Ruger.

My vote is also for the Kimber Montana with the Mod 70 EW being second ....Good luck...Hb

If you reconsider the Ruger, it is also offered in an 18” as well as the 16.

Good to know, but I was never very impressed with my MK II. Winchester M70 is probably top of the list and I've read too many horror stories about the Kimbers (hit or miss), but I know a lot of people like 'em.

M70. My gunsmith really likes Tikka, but I've never owned one.

My daughter Shoots a tikka t3 308
She loves it

M70.

Have had three Hawkeyes with nary a bobble. The current M70s look very nice and come in several variations. I like the SS Featherweight. Kimber lists several, just no Montanas at present. That seems like an odd decision unless they want to push folks into the high-priced models or the Hunter.

I was lucky enough to find a very slick and lightweight Heym Mauser last Fall, so I’m covered. Brass, bullets, powder, and primers, all in stock here.😁

I'd have some patience and find a nice classic M70 or pre-64 M70 instead of settling for what is made today.

If you can live without CRF, Legacy is selling Howa Walnut Hunter models in SS. Always liked that look. Put a walnut stock on my Hawkeye AW .223.

Find a pre-64 model 70. It will always hold its value.

#1 Kimber Montana - great rifle, and the ones produced in the last handful of years are excellent
#2 Winchester M70 EW - the current M70s coming out of Portugal are also excellent, heavier than a Kimber Montana, though
#3 Tikka - well known for good out-of-the-box accuracy

Although a fine rifle, Tikka is not CRF.

While opinions vary on the triggers, writers I trust have said the current ones assembled in Portugal are the best ever made. Both my sons had SS Classics made in New Haven, which were okay, but one had floorplate latch problems and both had clunky stocks “bedded” by squirting a blob of hot glue in the recoil lug recess.

The last I heard, the M70 barreled actions are made here, then shipped to Portugal for final assembly. The stocks of all FN-made ones were always made in Portugal. That factory has been in operation for decades, doing assembly work on lots of Browning models.

1)Kimber
2)M70
3)Ruger





Montana’s are on the website, located under “mountain rifles”. They were only taken down from the website for a very short period of time.

Winchester Featherweight

M-70..like Porsche, there are NO substitutes...

Ruger Hawkeye, M70...in that order.

A 16" barrel is far more versatile if you're actually worried about SHTF. The more compact you can make a firearm the better, it'll handle in a wider variety of situations especially urban environments and from vehicles. Even with a short 16" barrel a .308 will still be effective well beyond 300m in a defensive situation. However, if you find yourself in a SHTF situation you'll want to be mobile, and again a more compact package improves the mobility.

I’d go with the M70 EW. I have one in 7mm-08 and love it!!

I’ve owned a Hawkeye all-weather and M70 extreme weather in 308. The M70 was far and away “nicer”. Smoother action, metal finish was better, stock wasn’t an injection molded “plastic”. It was also easy to stay at an inch or under at 100 yards with a variety of loads. Bedding it was easy with the flat action and square to the action recoil lug

BUT, the Hawkeye is bomb proof. Got a lower scope ring and mounted a 2.5-8x36 on it. The stock is more trim, even though the gun feels heavier. Its a 1 to 1 1/2 inch gun at 100, which is fine. Since I only used it on the west side of WA, shots were never more than 300 yards and mostly well under that. I didn’t really “develop” a load. I just chose the bullet I wanted.

I am not sure than you can buy the standard Hawkeye all-weather NIB anymore.

Another vote along these lines. As far as the M70, I'd opt for the Featherweight Compact.

Thanks fellers. Lots of good suggestions, but I will be going w/ a CRF. Having never owned a .308 before, I’ve been looking into it more seriously lately and the more I read about it, the more I’m convinced that the .308 would be a excellent choice. I would definitely prefer a custom Mauser, but finding a decent one for a fair price is a difficult prospect these days, but I’m keeping an eye out.

Unless I can find a worked over Mauser, the M70 is currently in the lead and I’m still interested in the Ruger Gunsite Scout as well, but as I stated I’m not too keen on Ruger.

Ken: Somehow I knew you were going to recommend a Featherweight! I’m keeping an eye out, but I haven’t found one yet. The .280 is still in the running, though the .308 certainly has the advantage in ammo/component availability.

I also always wanted to try an FN SPR, but they’re way too heavy and the prices have gotten ridiculous.

Another option on used market would be old ZKK 601. They are bit rough out of the box and hand checkering may not be perfect, but they have some advantages: short action, dovetails for factory scope mounts, trigger can be adjusted w/o taking the stock off, very nice iron sights (samples through early 70s had pop up ring sight in rear base), the weight is correct for caliber.

An FN Patrol Bolt Rifle might be a consideration if you don't mind the weight.

If one, for some odd reason, is insistent on CRF with the fantasy of roaming the apocalyptic wastelands, it would make far more sense to build a rifle on something like a Mausingfeld.

liliysdad: Would that I could.

I am insistent on a CRF because I prefer the Mauser design. I'm simply not interested in push feed rifles. And an AR-10 would be a much better tool for roaming the apocalyptic wasteland - Jeeze, everyone knows that.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/890175628

Thanks Pappy. Not sure I want a compact, but I will look into it.

Which is most important?

My SHTF 308 bolt is a Ruger Scout with a 16.1" barrel and forward mounted 2-7x scope. It would do for 99% of the game I've taken, if not all, even with the lower MV due to barrel length.

Kimber, m70, ruger, sporterized Mauser, CZ, Montana 1999 (if you can find an older one)

In that order.

For those of you nay-saying CRF: what if the zombies are approaching and you're stuck upside-down in a tree? Don't you want to know that cartridge isn't going to just fall to the ground, where the zombies will pick it up and sell it for $100 on Gunbroker?

(In all seriousness, I prefer CRF for hunting rifles too. I feel like if something is going to break in an emergency, it's not going to be that. My money would be on a plastic detachable mag getting crushed or a cheap blue job rusting away.)

That Ruger Scout would be a good truck gun as well.

I would think it would make a good truck, ATV, off-road vehicle, and walk-about rifle. To me it is seems it would be a functional tool.

Not current production and most people don't realize it but the Savage model 99 is a crf rifle. Plus faster follow up shots and the fact it is a classic dependable accurate firearm. Just saying.🙂

So, what you’re saying is you don’t know what the M70 is today.

What don’t you like about the ruger? It’s not the smoothest, but it damn sure is probably the stoutest.

I've got an 18.7" Ruger Scout in a Ruger synthetic stock. It's a bit heavy but damn sure robust IMO, & handles well.

I smeared the bolt with 800 grit lapping compound cycled it several times. A hundred?
Cleaned it up, lubed it & it feels & cycles really great. The center feed AICS type mag helps with the smoothness & it doesn't scratch & gouge my brass like some do.

Has become a great grab & go rifle. The, IMO, dumb birdcage flash hider is in the parts bin. It's scoped conventionally, & the rear sight is in a stock pouch along with a loaded extra mag.

One of my favorites at the moment is my laminated Ruger Hawkeye Predator .308win. It's not light, but it's built stout and easy to shoot. Great 2-stage trigger out of the box. I bedded/floated mine, as it had a lot of pressure on the forend.

Just picked up a stainless / laminated / 18.7”, Ruger scout rifle.
Scope will be mounted in the normal rearward position. I see the rail as handy if one wanted to use a red dot type sight. The forward mounted scout scope is not my choice of optics.
Now to locate some 5 round magazines for actual use.

Yep. I agree.

Its funny how many guys are suggesting them, like they think they are..

Yep. CRF only.

Win model 70

Not much available for sale at the moment.

Kimber Montana has been solid for me. Very accurate and a pleasure to carry. Nothing I can fault it for

I found a Kimber Classic Select, French Walnut in .308 for $1,100.00.

And?

The Classic Select s a rather trim rifle at 5 lbs. 10 oz. I remember handling one at the Dallas Safari Show a few years back and it sure was a nice rifle, but they don't seem to be very durable. I think Rather have an M70 Featherweight, but I haven't found one yet.

I purchased a used 308, M70 classic stainless, walnut featherweight a few weeks ago. I have not shot the rifle, but really like the looks and feel. I have a few of the Classic stainless rifles.
But, I will take this stainless Ruger scout rifle over the model 70’s for your stated purposes. The 5 round magazines in the Ruger are my choice over the 10 round ones.

Edit to add: I also have a couple of Kimber Montana rifles. I Really like them also. But would still pick the Ruger scout rifle over them. I wish, I would have warmed up to the scout rifle sooner, when they were more available. I would luv the 18.7” stainless in a 338 Federal.

I hear ya' but the Rugers are currently way over priced at the moment. I don't particularly like the idea of spending a grand or more on a Ruger.

Realistically, the rifle will primarily be used for hunting and punching paper rather than SHTF or as a truck gun.

Agree, but all prices are up, at least in my area. And as I have discovered, if I want the rifle I had better get it then; or it is gone.

Yep.

Have a tikka in 30-06 and its a great gun

The Kimber Hunter is CRF, albeit from a DM, and considerably under $1k. Pretty good rifles, if you can get by the stock.

Since I’ve never had any issue with a Ruger Hawkeye, I don’t see them as overpriced at all. Will always prefer a good Mauser to any other bolt gun, but Rugers are solid, and available. The walnut stocks are the best they ever made.

Never owned a Kimber because im a lefty and dont want any more right handed rifles, but if i were right handed=eye dominant id own several.

One to look for is the Ruger compact magnum rifle. These have a 20" barrel, perfect proportions and did come in the RCM cartridges and also 308 win. This is the best bolt action Ruger ever made IMO. Ive got a left hand specimen in 338RCM and it really is my favorite rifle by a wide margin. Id love to find one in 308 win to go with my 338 but i do have the Ruger scout rifle as well and i like it too.

Good luck with your search for a controll feed rifle. I fully understand why a person would go that route and in bolt actions ive gone that way myself but its been difficult because of left handedness disease.

Theoldpinecricker: There's a left-handed Ruger Compact Magnum on gunbroker right now in .338 RCM. Starting bid is $699.00, buy it now price is $799.00.

Hubba Hubba:

Rigby .308

Thanks

Yeah, they probably bought them on a closeout a couple years ago like i did on CDNN. They sold these out at $499 and its the best money i ever spent

Theres a nice Hawkeye 308 in the classifieds here for $745

Thanks, but I believe I'm gonna try to find a M70.

Got one in .308. Very light. And handy with a Leupold 2.5 - 8 in Warne QD mounts, backed by a EAG ghost ring. Also running a Ruger Frontier in .308 Win.

Stay with it and you will surely find your M70. Mine is now resting in a speckled McMillan. It’s seems to be the first one picked when I open my safe.

I was at a LGS yesterday and they had an American made BACO 308 winchester Extreme weather on sale. They have had it for a long time, but no one wanted it for the original price of $1,200.00. Sale price is $899.99. If I absolutely had to buy a BACO model 70, it would be one that was made prior to 2013.. Just sayin.

Featherweight .308/McMillan? What's your 3 & 5 shot accuracy look like?

***

Also, what's the difference in barrel contour between the Sporter and the Featherweight? I don't want a pencil barrel.

Then you won't like the M70 FWT.

I have 3 featherweight M70s and never had an issue holding MOA for 3 shot groups. If I recall, muzzle is .570 on my 280 (pretty sure but wouldn't bet the farm).

I'm with the Model 70 crowd. Either Pre 64, Classic CRF, or new production BACO 70's CRF. Hard to beat.

I agree. Mine have been sub moa for 3, moa for 5 and 1.5 moa for 10. Damn sure good enough for a hunting rifle

I don’t consider the FW contour a pencil barrel and all. Yes it has a small muzzle diameter but it tappers hard and carries a good bit of meat from the chamber past the end of the stock. More sporter contour than mountain rifle contour. Feather weight is more of a model of gun and contour of the barrel to me. They are not feather weight rifles in the actual weight department. I like them and I like the weight myself. I’m just saying if you’re concerned with them being too light or barrel being too skinny don’t worry about that part.

It’s a larger contour than say a Remington mountain rifle contour KS contour or a Montana 84M contour.

I agree, of the many model 70's I own they are almost all either the factory fwt barrel or a custom job with a barrel matching the winny fwt contour. Accuracy has been great, but having said that I am a hunter more than a bench/target shooter.

Not made anymore but id get a cz 550 in .308. Far better than anything winchester or kimber has ever made imho.

If you want a real SHTF rifle in 308...get an M1A. Works well in the woods too

I am also a CZ fan but would beg to differ. There's an entire cottage gunsmithing industry devoted to "upgrading" CZ rifles... which is a tactful way of saying, making them how they should have come from the factory.

I agree with clockwork. Ive had the CZ550 american and its a heavy pig that doesnt handle for chidt. Good robust rifles, but theres a reason guys send them to AHR. After using mine on some elk hunts, I sent it packing. Id rather even use my sporter m1917's over the CZ, to be honest. If the op found a good accurate model 70 FWT, I dont think he would find much to complain about.

Cz 550 Americans and Safaris were heavy pigs and many needed a once over, but the higher end guns have no equal. Like American companies it’s not fair to compare price point models to higher end offerings. Think Walmart ADL. They also had features not found on the other guns in question.
Moot point though as they don’t make them any more and the higher end guns were extremely rare in the US. I’ve a couple of the 550 standards from Europe and wouldn’t trade them for anything

Current crop of US guns id get a ruger safari for what it’s worth. If I needed a lightweight gun I’d get the Kimber.

Ruger Hawkeye All Weather 308 Win....

I do have a rather accurate CZ 550 American in 6.5X55 SE, with rather nice figured wood, but as others have stated, CZ 550s are heavy. I believe the thick stock adds much to the weight and adversely affects balance. I may send it off to AHR one of these days. You don't often see 550 Americans for sale, unless they're Safari grade. I did just find a CZ550 American Factory Sniper (.308), but at over 8 lbs and a ridiculous $5,000.00 price tag, I'll be looking elsewhere.

I wonder how much weight could be saved on a FN SPR by switching out the stock for a lighter weight McMillan.

I'm not too interested in a M1A - I be a helluva lot more interested in an M1 Garand or an AR-10 for SHTF scenarios.

I also have a Ruger MKII, which certainly gets the job done, but I'm looking for something different for this rifle.

& thanks for the barrel contour info.

Why a garand over an m1a just out of curiosity. M1 garand needs clips to function and a very specific ammo type (or it breaks) vs the m1a which can run on any 7.62x51 or .308 and feeds from a modern and common box.

Not sure if its the best but I just got a Montana XAR left hand in 308. Shoots into an inch with just about anything.

Quak - enlighten me - is the M1A not as dependent on powder pressure curves as the Garand?
I know the Garand is limited to powders between 4320 and 3031 without changing ports - how about the M1A?

I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion regarding the M1A (which will probably happen anyway), but the following quote from Lt. Colonel Chandler pretty much sums up my aversion to it:

“The M14 is a bitch to keep in tune, and an untuned M14, no matter who did the accurizing is about as accurate as a thrown rock. Unless the M14 is continually babied it will not retain accuracy. Imagine the hardships and brutalities a scoped M14 will experience as a DM weapon in combat. (One recalls the story of Carlos Hathcock walking back to the shoot house and starting to pass out, another Marine grabbed the accurized M14 and let The Ultimate Sniper fall face first into the asphalt. Letting a weakened man fall to keep the pathetic NM M14 accurate). No M14 ever built will stay accurately zeroed and tight group shooting, under field conditions.”

The M14, Not Much For Fighting

Have had a couple examples both weapons. The 14 has a gas cut off and the garand does not. You don’t hear of shooters bending or breaking opp rods in a 14. 14s gas port was also closer to the chamber and generated a lot more pressure iirc. Ive never had personally nor heard of issues due to pressure curves causing malfunctions with M1as...and with all the tactical models SA has been pumping out over the last 20 years there are lots of em out there.

Neither are truly good accuracy platforms imho...and the 14 certainly is not any worse than the garand in that respect. Personally i think the way they both anchor in the stock is the main reason...or at least one of them.

I’ve had two heavily acurized m1a platform guns. A springer NM with a Krieger barrel and a 2 lug LRB with a krieger barrel...both bedded in McMillan stocks. Neither would shoot MOA with an optic and if I were being honest they were closer to 2 MOA.

Ive never shot a Garand with an optic BUT I've owned several and shot several more and while never terrible i certainly never found them to be any more accurate than a M1a with irons...though to be honest that's likely the limitation of the shooter (me).

There is also the issue about the .308 being better than the 06

I can tell you this also...I had the chance to shoot an actual M14. Surprisingly this is a rare bird. Total [bleep] in full auto fire. Very hard to control. From what I can gather online the G3 and FAL weren't a whole lot better. The idea of a full auto super light machine gun in .308 is a pipe dream imho. We should have adopted the STG45 in 7.92x33

This...you could not give me a Montana. Everyone I owned was a piece of shid.

Yep. That's what I've read about Kimber - it's a crap shoot on weather or not you'll get a good one.

Hate to say it but it seems like most rifles are that way any more

The Ruger is available in Controlled round feed?

Yes.

You learn something new everyday in the 'Fire.

Just watching Life Below Zero and Ricko DeWilde just flattened a giant moose with a Ruger Gunsite Scout .308 (S13E8).

The one I got sure isn’t a POS.


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ne-shooting-a-kimber-hunter#Post15678041

Are you sure it wasn't really a .338 mag? Based on the consensus around here the 308 can barely down a deer, let alone a moose or elk.

Yep. It really was a gigantic moose and he said that his .308 felt small, but it was a 1-shot kill. .308 was plenty. Don't know the load - that show doesn't reveal enough for us rifle loonies.

I hope he used a match bullet just to bother people here lol.

Ruger Hawkeye, Winchester Featherweight or TC Venture WS.

Don't know how hard they are to find but I like my African in .308. With a 20" barrel it's handy in a blind and the iron sights are a nice touch.

Swapped the 3.5-10 with a 2.5-8 loopy so it's much trimmer looking. I'm sort of remembering $700ish when I got it from Whittakers.

I have shot both the Ruger and the Kimber M84. I preferred the price of the Ruger but enjoyed the smoothness of the Kimber


As far as my M38 ...well you knonw that old saying about a face only a parent could love 😂😂😂

WRONG. The Ruger Compact Magnum -- RCM -- iterations were offered in, you know, RCM chamberings only. The STANDARD Model 77 Hawkeye was offered in .308 WCF for left-handed shooters.