I recently had a 7-08 "mountain rifle" built. 7lbs 3oz scoped. This thing is tough to shoot consistently. I've been working up loads for it and have found a couple that shoot really nice sub 1" groups, but I'm getting frustrated with the fliers that I know are me. What's some of the tricks for shooting these lightweights well?
I use some "down pressure" at the bench by holding the fore end of placing my hand on top of the scope. It really helps. I got the tip from an online search and it was from Melvin Forbes. If it hurts to shoot it at the bench use a PAST recoil shield. I do with my light 30-06.
Hold the rifle behind the front bag and be as consistent in grip pressure and rearward pressure as you can. I try to avoid putting very much downward pressure on the forend...mostly pulling straight back into my shoulder. Before every shot double check that the front swivel is 1/2-1” forward of the front bag so it won’t hit the bag in recoil. Make sure the rear swivel and the bottom of the pistol grip aren’t going to contact the rear bag as the gun recoils as well. It’s all about consistency with everything that touches the rifle from the time you pull the trigger ‘til the bullet is out of the barrel. And think “follow through”. Don’t worry about the impact point of the bullet until the rifle settles down after the shot and recoil. I always use a folded up beach towel as a recoil pad on anything larger than a 25/06 or 6.5 Creedmoor and a folded towel on the front bag.
the down pressure helps, basner, and selby show this in their video's, I have a rifle i'm trying to work up loads and part of the trouble is me .I couldn't keep the crosshair from moving when I dry fired at target. I realized I was gripping the grip instead of pulling straight back. Crosshair moving 1.5 to 3" to right(100yards) griping, no movement with straight back pressure , and also as mentioned above no free recoil or gripping rear bag with left hand.Randy selby ,and Basner recommends bull bag type front rest. This also helped me.
Place a terry cloth towel over the front bag, then make sure the front action screw centers the front bag. Then do what is recommended by the other posters.
Do you all find a certain level of recoil makes it difficult? For example a lightweight 22 Hornet is easy to shoot but not a lightweight 243.
Rifles start to recoil when the bullet moves, so they are starting to recoil when the bullet is still in the barrel. That being the case, the lighter rifle will jump more than a heavy one for the same charge, and a heavier calibre will jump more than a light one firing the same charge. Light rifles may also compound this with a bit more barrel whip, depending on how stiff the barrel is.
I guess there's also the fact that if a rifle's knocking you about it can be hard to shoot well with it, though I wouldn't usually have thought a .243 with a decently-designed stock would be an issue, even if it was very light. People's tolerance for recoil varies though, and stock design and fit matters too - I've found a very light .30/06 (Rem 700 Ti) was not at all unpleasant, even with 220 gn loads, while another heavier .30/06 I had years ago, with a sharp comb and a steel buttplate, was not such fun.
The more the rifle's moving, the more important to ensure that it moves the same way each time. Also, if you can dampen the movement then it will usually have less effect, provided you are doing so consistently..
That is why I've always found with light rifles that it helps to hold them in both hands, with the weak hand holding the fore-end. I rest the back of my weak hand on the rest. I also pay attention to getting the buttplate/recoil pad in the same place on my shoulder, with equal (and fairly firm) pressure. I don't hold the rifle so tightly as to induce muscle tremor, but I am definitely holding it.All of this helps to dampen the jump, and give much better accuracy than letting the rifle recoil freely.
Other aspects of technique also matter, such as getting your cheek-weld consistent, keeping your trigger finger clear of the stock and drawing the trigger straight back, getting your neutral point of aim, getting your elbows in the same position each time etc, but these should be a given.
I like to hold the forend in front of the bag with my left hand like I would while shooting in the field. Seems to work with light kickers like 6s. JB’s idea of using a folded towel helps too.
I like to hold the forend in front of the bag with my left hand like I would while shooting in the field. Seems to work with light kickers like 6s. JB’s idea of using a folded towel helps too.
When I tried this, in order to do it naturally, it put my floor plate or dbm on top of the front bag.......which I did not think would be a good thing...
^^^ important. Light barrels are not made for the bench.
1) Lower your trigger weight 2) Don’t let your rifle free recoil
This is pretty much what I have found as well. When I first started shooting tikkas I had issues with accuracy. I learned the groups would tighten up quickly not allowing the rifle to free recoil. Even though tikkas have great factory triggers I noticed my groups also noticeably shrank after throwing a lighter yo dave trigger spring in them.
I really like the compact light rifles in pretty much any caliber. Like someone said above these are not my paper punching rifles, I look for repeatable cold bore accuracy as that is 99% of the time all I shoot while hunting. I look at it like some of the ultra compact carry pistols, great to have when attire will not allow you to carry anything else or that is what you like to carry but not what you want to spend all day at the range hammering your hand with.
i have used the wrist drape technique on a couple tikkas i have and its worked. just drape your wrist over the front scope ring and the downward pressure keeps the rifle from bucking too bad during recoil throwing your shot off. as you know if sure that rifle are individuals and no 2 rifles will like the same treatment as not all of my tikkas require this method to shoot well. matter of fact i have a cz 527 american in 204 ruger that will put 2 shots in the same hole then throw the next one 3/4" off. maybe it'd like a lil weight on the the front ring............ Big Ed
I have a late 80's Remington mountain rifle in 280 rem that's been my most challenging rifle to shoot from the bench. It's like looking for hen's teeth to get a sub 1" 5 shot group with any load. I have done 1" 3 shot groups and yes fliers are an ever present possibility. Most of it is definitely technique. Haven't tried any of the cheater methods mentioned above but it may be worth looking into. I usually just try to do my best perfect-shot trigger breaks when shooting on sand bags. It netted me a good 1.5" cluster for 5 shots at 100yds with a new speedster load and I was happy ☺
What's some of the tricks for shooting these lightweights well?
Range time
Ha ha. Laughing my azz off. I'm glad you said it.. I'm trying to think of a way to tell these fuggers that they don't need 89 trick moves to shoot a light rifle well, just practice. I shoot my lightweight rifles no different than anything else.. They hit what I'm aiming at. I have a friend that has a hell of a time though. When I see these threads, I think of him. Here's how he shoots my superlite:
Believe it or not, that is a sub moa rifle. In the hands of a competent shooter. Here's how my other friend shoots the same rifle:
I will say that BSAs pics are absolutely true of lightweight rigs not held how they wanna be held. I am pretty convinced that's where the kimbers got their bad reputations. Sure they had other issues and what not. But I can shoot my montana off a front rest and bag and it looks like I'm slinging 00. Hold it right and it's sub moa.
I'm not the best at it. Evaluating groups and such is difficult for me. I find something that shoots well and consistent. Like others said, POA from a hunting position is what I'm after. That's why I own such guns. To hunt with.
They aren't bench rifles.
Someone mentioned prone. I've been wanting to try it. I just don't like my current range setup for prone shooting. I need to add a backer lower than it current sits. Otherwise, I feel like I'm shooting upward.
What's some of the tricks for shooting these lightweights well?
Range time
Well, maybe. It doesn't matter how much range time you get though, if you aren't developing good technique. And that is the key with shooting anything well.
I know from experience even a 14 lb smallbore match rifle will show up issues with your technique. Even as simple a thing as letting the buttplate drift out on your shoulder between shots will show on the target. Light rifles will tend to show the effect of technique more though, in my experience, and you are contending not only with the fact that they'll wobble more when you are trying to hold steady, but also the fact that they jump more. These are some of the reasons we'll usually shoot matches with something as heavy as the rules will allow.
For hunting though, I like a light rifle, and it has been my experience that there are specific aspects of technique, particularly the way you hold them, that have really quite a noticeable effect on accuracy with these light rifles. Get it right though and, like others, I've found that you can get really good accuracy and, more to the point, confidently reach out and kill critters.
Below is from an old post. Difference between holding the forend down vs free recoil with a Kimber Montana in .308,
From something I did a few years ago. Below are two 3-shot groups from the same rifle/same load from 100 yards. The first 3 shots are covered with tape and were shot letting the rifle recoil freely on the forend. The second 3 shots are holding the forend firmly into the bag. Big difference on this rifle (6.5 lbs scoped .308). I've had several other 6.5 lb (or less) scoped rifles that didn't require the same tight forend hold, but the same hold didn't seem to adversely affect them either. I've noticed on a few other lw's that the a tight forend hold helped a little but none as drastically as this one. Now I generally grip the forend tightly on lw's as a general practice.
I can tell you free recoil Does Not work with a Kimber Montana in 338 Federal. When shooting my Barrett Fieldcraft or Montana I’ve found that holding them exactly as I would shooting offhand or kneeling works well. At the bench a rear bag and front rest help with stability, but I still hold the rifle the same. A bonus is that once you sight in at the bench it translates to the field perfectly. I don’t think you’ll ever be quite as consistent with a very light rifle, but the difference is meaningless in terms of hunting accuracy out to the most common ranges. When you walk up to your dead elk do you really notice whether the bullet was an inch off?
I appreciate everyone's input here. I agree range time will help, but my frustration is in trying to work up good loads for this new rifle. It's sometimes hard to know if that 1 1/2 or 2" group is the load, or the shooter. I'm not new to shooting or reloading, and as a general rule I won't keep a gun that I can't get consistent 1" or less groups with. There have been very few though that have gone down the road for that particular reason. The last one was a 742 for example. And I have 2 safes full of rifles that will shoot that well from 17 Remington through 7RM.
I'm defiantly going to try some of these ideas though so thank you.
This sums it up a slug gun and light weight rife use same technique....slug guns are low velocity 1400-1900fps so you can't have muzzle jump or you will verticle string groups
I recently had a 7-08 "mountain rifle" built. 7lbs 3oz scoped. This thing is tough to shoot consistently. I've been working up loads for it and have found a couple that shoot really nice sub 1" groups, but I'm getting frustrated with the fliers that I know are me. What's some of the tricks for shooting these lightweights well?
What's some of the tricks for shooting these lightweights well?
Range time
Well, maybe. It doesn't matter how much range time you get though, if you aren't developing good technique. And that is the key with shooting anything well.
I know from experience even a 14 lb smallbore match rifle will show up issues with your technique. Even as simple a thing as letting the buttplate drift out on your shoulder between shots will show on the target. Light rifles will tend to show the effect of technique more though, in my experience, and you are contending not only with the fact that they'll wobble more when you are trying to hold steady, but also the fact that they jump more. These are some of the reasons we'll usually shoot matches with something as heavy as the rules will allow.
For hunting though, I like a light rifle, and it has been my experience that there are specific aspects of technique, particularly the way you hold them, that have really quite a noticeable effect on accuracy with these light rifles. Get it right though and, like others, I've found that you can get really good accuracy and, more to the point, confidently reach out and kill critters.
I recently had a 7-08 "mountain rifle" built. 7lbs 3oz scoped. This thing is tough to shoot consistently. I've been working up loads for it and have found a couple that shoot really nice sub 1" groups, but I'm getting frustrated with the fliers that I know are me. What's some of the tricks for shooting these lightweights well?
EZ, your not holding your mouth right!
If I hold my Kimber 7-08 very firm from the bench, it groups close to the factory target sheets. Out hunting, I often use sticks.
Shooting pencil barrel rifles at long range really improved my shooting. I usually go bipod and rear bag and a light trigger and consistent hold are critical. I always hold the forearm and don't just leave that hand free or put it back by the bag. Also make sure the sling stud isn't dragging on the rear bag. The light trigger is a must or you will move the light gun when you fire. Nothing worse than a 6 pound trigger on a 5 pound rifle.
Load development with lighter barrels is more critical too. You have to find that node with a temp stable powder and then find the center of it because the node isn't usually very wide with a light whippy barrel. Shorter barrels are better when light.
I had an Fclass shooter next to me at the range last fall as I was finishing up load work up with a Barrett Fieldcraft in 6mm Creedmoor just before the deer hunt. He couldn't believe it when he saw my last 3 groups at 100 yards with a 5 pound rifle off of a Harris bipod and rear bag. Two groups of 3 were right at 1/4 moa and the third was just under 1/2. He said that last group sure went to crap. I said yes round 9 started to walk up a bit, I guess I should have let it cool between groups a bit more.
I don't always shoot that well with light rifles but I was in the zone that day. I killed a little buck with it at 450 the next day. Bullet went exactly where I wanted it even though I was resting on a big flat top rr tie sized fence post.
My old first gen 700 Ti in 30-06 taught me to shoot light rifles.
I got quite an education in proper bench technique after working with a NULA .308 some years ago. These will shoot with incredible accuracy just like many far heavier rifles will but you must have a good, consistent benchrest technique and use a good rest. I prefer a Hart pedestal rest and leather Protektor front bag and a Protektor leather bunny bag in the back. I tried the often-suggested trick of holding the forearm with my left hand and found it didn't work as well as the conventional method, but that may vary from one shooter to another. Shoot a lot.
Skinny forearms are a big problem if shooting off bags regardless of weight. Lots of light rifles also come with skinny forearms. They tend to want to roll to the right due to your face pushing to the right, and your hand pulling to the right on the trigger. Shooting a pistol really helps with trigger technique of pulling straight back.
One solution is a bipod to stop the roll, but light guns tend to bounce more during the shot, so so you have to reset between shots. On my light guns I'll often run two front sandbags in front to stop the roll.
My input. Worth what you paid for it. Based on one Kimber Ascent in .270 that ended up just under 6 lbs scoped:
1) Two shot groups from a cold barrel. More than two shots, a skinny barrel starts to get hot. Besides, if you need more than two shots on a game animal, you done screwed up. 2) Well supported on front and rear bags. No sling. Bags and/or rests arranged so that sling studs do not contact bags during recoil. 3) Use the non-trigger hand to pull down on stock, between the bags, ahead of the trigger guard. 4) Trigger pull in the 2.5 lb range for a hunting rifle.
After sight in, practice, practice, practice... Standing, sitting, off a backpack...
Mechanics just "happen" to "matter",despite the never ending tears of Crying Karens and their Fhuqktard "fixes". Proficiency simply can NOT be purchased,to the chagrin of Window Lickers fhuqking everywhere. Hint.
Pardon mechanical integrity(rifle/mounts/glass) and simplistic constants that never wane,fueled with GOOD ammo. Hint.
Mighta' been a "fluke"?!? Hint.
Not that the Drooling Dumbfhuqktitude of CLUELESS Droolers TRYING to "talk" about same,ain't funnier than fhuqk. Hint. LAUGHING!
go jerk off over yourself in front of the mirror you stupid fugg
Just ignore poseur Larry. Only thing he shoots is his mouth. He maxes out his credit on junk then takes it out for a photo shoot every weekend. He has to throw guns into creeks and rock piles so it looks like they aren't safe queens.
go jerk off over yourself in front of the mirror you stupid fugg
Just ignore poseur Larry. Only thing he shoots is his mouth. He maxes out his credit on junk then takes it out for a photo shoot every weekend. He has to throw guns into creeks and rock piles so it looks like they aren't safe queens.
He's on ignore. Full on douchebag that one is.....
Poseur Larry always forgets a lot of members here have been here for years...easy to sift through his lies and bullschit after 15 years. Larry criticizes everyone's stuff, then two years later promotes it like he invented it...
Poseur Larry always forgets a lot of members here have been here for years...easy to sift through his lies and bullschit after 15 years. Larry criticizes everyone's stuff, then two years later promotes it like he invented it...
If you go back, you can see him calling me an idiot for putting an early SS 10x on my 50BMG.
That was back when he was blowing Leupold and Talley like a mining town whore on payday......
DO tell about your time at The Retard Ranch today...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
I DARE you to include pics of you and the Retards! Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!
Bless your poor poor(literally) heart.
P.S. and by the way,feel free to extoll even more of your WELL founded and countless Insecurities. Oooooooopsie!!!! Too fhuqking LATE!!
Hint.
LAUGHING!..............
Boob,
Fortunately for you,your Homoerotic Outdoor Fantasies are free,so you can "afford' them...you 'lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Bless your poor poor(literally) heart,for TRYING.
Hint.
Laughing!.................
kchuntlashr,
Pardon the simplistic Fact(s) which trouble you,in that even someone as Great as I,can't run wares until they're Invented...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Laughing!
Fortunately for you,my EVERY word and Splendid Pixel(s) are FREE,so you can "afford" a "critique". Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!!!
GOOD time for you to fillout yet a fhuqking 'nother HURT Feelers Report. hint. Laughing!
Only you can assign a Gender to your Retard. Now "she" is a "Marine"?!?
The Dude is/was weighing this weather and awaiting the next flight as Ground Crew. Last I checked,it was 70MPH+ on the tarmac,which we call "Saturday". GREAT time to instill your Retard into The Real World. Hint. LAUGHING!
Bless your poor poor(literally) heart,for TRYING though.
Only you can assign a Gender to your Retard. Now "she" is a "Marine"?!?
The Dude is/was weighing this weather and awaiting the next flight as Ground Crew. Last I checked,it was 70MPH+ on the tarmac,which we call "Saturday". GREAT time to instill your Retard into The Real World. Hint. LAUGHING!
Bless your poor poor(literally) heart,for TRYING though.
Hint.
LAUGHING!......................
I was a Marine fatass. Your son wasn't. He never got the EGA, probably because his dad's a short, bald, drunk, fat POS.
My son, unlike yours, was alive to go shooting with his dad today.
Keep laughing. I'll spend tomorrow with my wife and son. You know, those two things you no longer have.
Fuuck yourself fatass. Maybe lose a few chins and buy some platform boots so you can keep a woman.
The Dude is cashing paychecks greater than your's,as you "justify" your "role". Hint. LAUGHING!
You could nearly "afford" a camera there. HINT. Laughing!
P.S. and by the way,you can BARELY "afford' to "fhuqk" yourselself,you "LUCKY" kchunt. Hint. LAUGHING!!!
Bless your poor poor(literally) heart,for TRYING though.
Hint.
LAUGHING!.............
Hypothetically, if your son had made it to MCRD San Diego, actually made it through, and walked over to you across the parade deck after graduation, were you going to make some dumbass G.I. Jane comment to him?
No wonder you don't have a wife or son.
P.S. the Mrs gets bonuses that are more than you make. Please laugh at that. It makes me smile, since you don't even have a Mrs anymore. But, hey, you enjoy that Biden Bucks check.
We didn't get one, but, somehow we'll dig deep and survive.
I recently had a 7-08 "mountain rifle" built. 7lbs 3oz scoped. This thing is tough to shoot consistently. I've been working up loads for it and have found a couple that shoot really nice sub 1" groups, but I'm getting frustrated with the fliers that I know are me. What's some of the tricks for shooting these lightweights well?
My Ruger Ultralight in .308 took a bit of taming. I had it bedded and barrel floated but it still shot into two inch groups. But then I read a Craig Boddington book about dampening the foreend with thin barrels. I cut several strips of bike tube rubber (1cm x 4cm approx) and packed that in the channel between the barrel and the fore end. I think it took three strips. That calmed it down and tightened up groups. It now shoots an inch at 100m with 130gn Speer HPs and 150gn Hornady SPs. And I hold the fore end on the front rest. That was about 20 years ago and I meant to have it professionally bedded at the tip, but the bike tube rubber strips are still there doing the job nicely.
If you shoot a lightweight rifle one way at the range and another way in the field you may have problems. I have never done anything special shooting my lightweights at the range. I rest the fore end about half way between the sling stud and magazine on a rest and pull the trigger. Shooting in the field, that will be the same place I rest it on a back pack or whatever other field rest I can find.
Go to You Tube and there is a guy showing "proper hand placement for shooting a rifle" Forgot the guys name....shooting prone and has a red beard and plaid red jacket...shows just before you pull the trigger to take your finger off the trigger and see if the rifle moves....put you finger back real gently squeeze again. Do this till the rifle not moving as you squeeze.....works for me. Also, I took a piece of thin material from a detergent jug and place under the front lug and under the rear screw.....floated barrel with great success. These 2 things shrank my groups with a Win. 70 in a 308 to quarter to half an inch....was shooting 1" groups the best I could do, Amazing difference little things can do if you hit on something.
Periscope turret, check. Throw lever, check. Flannel shirt, check, Bin Laden beard, check. Dish pan hands, check. I'd bet my middle nut it's a Creedmoor.
Speaking of lightweight rifles that will be used for hunting, I do not recommend that technique for shooting at the range unless that's the way you anticipate shooting at critters. Bipods and lightweight rifles may not play well together.
I've never owned a rifle that I thought shot as well off a bipod as it does a sandbag etc. The new flat-bill rage is you have to have an arca rail and a tripod... 🙄
I just saw a Gun Digest article which was touting the lightweight rifle for hunting. 1974, I think. They were talking about rifles which were 8lb., ready to hunt. Way too much gun for the modern hunter. I seldom fire my hunting rifles from a benchrest pedestal or a bipod (a bipod kind of takes any rifle out of the lightweight class, I would think). I'll shoot off my elbows and let my forearm touch the sandbag if I want to cheat a little. I shoot "F" class and BR rifles off a rest; the others get held. GD
I use the drape method. Left hand over scope and butt into my shoulder.
My 240 Bee 1:7 twist. Lightweight back country,
Impressive shooting! When you say "drape" does that mean not really applying downward pressure but instead just allowing the weight of your arm/hand to slow the rise of the rifle?
Also, would you mind sharing what you are using for a front and rear rest?
I just picked up a model seven FS in 308 that weighs under 6 1/4# scoped, that is a full pound lighter than my next lightest rifle so I'm definitely looking for techniques that allow me to see what the gun is really capable of.
I've found a front rest like the narrow (1.5" wide) Protektor leather bag will work for about 98% of sporting rifles. Even some "varmint" type stocks work well in it. Benchrest type forearms won't fit and require the next larger width bag. Using a bag that is too wide allows too much forearm movement and is worthless for accuracy work. No forearm pressure works best for me. Zeroing in this manner will also keep the point of impact the same or very close to it when shooting from a Bog Pod tripod.
I'm bringing this back up because it's driving me nuts. I've been working a lot on technique with this gun. How I hold it, breathing, dry firing, etc. I found a load I like, but this is common and pretty repeatable. This is the last 2-3 shot groups. Now if this was just 2 groups an inch apart, I'd say it was just cheek position or something. I think the thing that torques me is the "flyers" are printing a .3 inch group. So my question is, IYO, is it the gun, or the driver?
I'm bringing this back up because it's driving me nuts. I've been working a lot on technique with this gun. How I hold it, breathing, dry firing, etc. I found a load I like, but this is common and pretty repeatable. This is the last 2-3 shot groups. Now if this was just 2 groups an inch apart, I'd say it was just cheek position or something. I think the thing that torques me is the "flyers" are printing a .3 inch group. So my question is, IYO, is it the gun, or the driver?
Let someone else shoot it. You might be like my buddy Troy. Also shoot some 5 shot groups. 3 shots don't tell you much of anything. Don't make me pull my buddies target pics out again... You guys would laugh if I posted a pic from how he shot his 338wm. He later sold it, saying, "it didn't shoot well"...
I'm bringing this back up because it's driving me nuts. I've been working a lot on technique with this gun. How I hold it, breathing, dry firing, etc. I found a load I like, but this is common and pretty repeatable. This is the last 2-3 shot groups. Now if this was just 2 groups an inch apart, I'd say it was just cheek position or something. I think the thing that torques me is the "flyers" are printing a .3 inch group. So my question is, IYO, is it the gun, or the driver?
Periscope turret, check. Throw lever, check. Flannel shirt, check, Bin Laden beard, check. Dish pan hands, check. I'd bet my middle nut it's a Creedmoor.
Speaking of lightweight rifles that will be used for hunting, I do not recommend that technique for shooting at the range unless that's the way you anticipate shooting at critters. Bipods and lightweight rifles may not play well together.
If he tried that technique with my 8.5 pound all up 300 Win Mag shooting 200 grain bullets, he would end up with a face full of scope!
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/Hcecsgr.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/KMQWYuC.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/52014.jpg)
![[Linked Image from udrop.com]](https://www.udrop.com/dx01/20210320_155923.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/atArjUdl.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/e2lGFTvl.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/rCJ3t27l.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/0NXgwBJJ/67202801-BB2E-40AD-AF1E-D4A3B9471B81.jpg)
