What has been your experience with Portugal made model 70s? Fit, finish, accuracy etc? The best I can recall I only remember shooting 2 model 70s in my life. One I owned a mid 2000’s 270 WSM and a pre 64 375H&H. Actions seemed very smooth to me. Just curious how the new ones compare? Hardest part would be a Winchester not made in America, just seems weird. If it’s well built I could probably get over it.
I've read articles by "gun writers" saying the Portuguese assembled m70s are the best Winchester ever put their name on. Tighter tolerances, better steel, better wood, better accuracy, etc. If I wanted a m70, I wouldn't hesitate buying the newest version. Others may differ.
I've read articles by "gun writers" saying the Portuguese assembled m70s are the best Winchester ever put their name on. Tighter tolerances, better steel, better wood, better accuracy, etc. If I wanted a m70, I wouldn't hesitate buying the newest version. Others may differ.
Had a pre-64 for a few decades and have futzed with a couple of SS NH models. Those SS ones were solid, but attention to detail wasn’t their strongpoint.
I have high hopes for the EW MB .308 on its way here. Comes pretty dear, but nice stuff always does. If rj308 had offered up his SS .270 FW a bit earlier, we might be talking about a SC model instead.
Had a pre-64 for a few decades and have futzed with a couple of SS NH models. Those SS ones were solid, but attention to detail wasn’t their strongpoint.
I have high hopes for the EW MB .308 on its way here. Comes pretty dear, but nice stuff always does. If rj308 had offered up his SS .270 FW a bit earlier, we might be talking about a SC model instead.
I look forward to your review. Although probably not buying till after the first of the year the EW is what I have my eye on as well. Prefer not to have the muzzle brake but it is removable. I seem to have a harder time deciding on a cartridge than a rifle.In the end anything from a 6.5 up with a good bullet and good placement probably doesn’t make a hill of beans difference on any reasonable shot. Maybe the answer is buy two, stock up on components and worry about other things?
I saw a lot of Portugese model 70's which had the extractor groove, in the bolt head, located too far forward. This reduced the amount of primary extraction. In some cases, it was almost as bad as on a new Remington 700. Apart from this obvious flaw, they were very nicely made rifles. One other issue I have seen consists of ripples in the bore. I have not had a close look at a real recent example but I hope they fixed the extraction issue. GD
[quote=Pappy348]... Although probably not buying till after the first of the year the EW is what I have my eye on as well. Prefer not to have the muzzle brake but it is removable....
[quote=Pappy348]... Although probably not buying till after the first of the year the EW is what I have my eye on as well. Prefer not to have the muzzle brake but it is removable....
The EW/SS, like mine, comes w/o a nuzzle brake.
GR
Winchester is discontinuing the one without a muzzle brake. I was complaining about that the other day. I’m going to wait and see what they offer at shot show.
They're fine. Fit and finish is excellent. The actions are factory epoxy bedded. All four of mine are MOA or less. I haven't experienced any issues with primary extraction or anomalies in the bore. The CRF feature works exactly as it should. The MOA triggers are also excellent.
I've owned 5. Still have two (sold two to change cartridges and one was lured away by a friend). Fit and finish is outstanding in my experience. I'm also an m77 but the bluing on these beats Ruger and absolutely smokes what Remington had been turning out more recently. All have been excellent shooters with factory ammo. And for those who care (I do), not a trace of plastic or polymer.
On the historical note, Winchester hasn't been *that* Winchester for a very long time -- way longer than even most M70 fans realize. But then neither has Remington, Mauser, etc. If you want a quality, traditional rifle, these are great.
I've owned 5. Still have two (sold two to change cartridges and one was lured away by a friend). Fit and finish is outstanding in my experience. I'm also an m77 but the bluing on these beats Ruger and absolutely smokes what Remington had been turning out more recently. All have been excellent shooters with factory ammo. And for those who care (I do), not a trace of plastic or polymer.
On the historical note, Winchester hasn't been *that* Winchester for a very long time -- way longer than even most M70 fans realize. But then neither has Remington, Mauser, etc. If you want a quality, traditional rifle, these are great.
I've owned 5. Still have two (sold two to change cartridges and one was lured away by a friend). Fit and finish is outstanding in my experience. I'm also an m77 but the bluing on these beats Ruger and absolutely smokes what Remington had been turning out more recently. All have been excellent shooters with factory ammo. And for those who care (I do), not a trace of plastic or polymer.
On the historical note, Winchester hasn't been *that* Winchester for a very long time -- way longer than even most M70 fans realize. But then neither has Remington, Mauser, etc. If you want a quality, traditional rifle, these are great.
Great rifles that Browning puts out..
Yup. And your pre-64 wasn't built by the company Oliver Winchester founded, so let me know when you'll be giving them away? We'll all wait for your commentary on the *actual quality* of the rifles...
Had a pre-64 for a few decades and have futzed with a couple of SS NH models. Those SS ones were solid, but attention to detail wasn’t their strongpoint.
I have high hopes for the EW MB .308 on its way here. Comes pretty dear, but nice stuff always does. If rj308 had offered up his SS .270 FW a bit earlier, we might be talking about a SC model instead.
I look forward to your review. Although probably not buying till after the first of the year the EW is what I have my eye on as well. Prefer not to have the muzzle brake but it is removable. I seem to have a harder time deciding on a cartridge than a rifle.In the end anything from a 6.5 up with a good bullet and good placement probably doesn’t make a hill of beans difference on any reasonable shot. Maybe the answer is buy two, stock up on components and worry about other things?
The cartridge was easy for me. The dealer had both a 7-08 and a .308, plus a .300 and maybe a PRC. Always wanted a 7-08, BUT there’s a big pile of .308 bullets and brass here, plus a number of dies, and zero 7mm. Any advantage over distance for the 7 is, as the SCOTUS likes to say, moot for me. It will never be tried past 300 in my hands around here, and around here is the only place I shoot.
I grabbed one of the Supergrades recently. Not a bad gun so. Took a bit to scratch all of the crap outta the trigger weight screw but I milked it down to about 3lbs. So far I only shot the first 20 factory ammo through it.
Once I get some empty brass I’ll see what it does with hand loads. I was kinda hoping it’d like the factory 143’s a bit more.
Had a pre-64 for a few decades and have futzed with a couple of SS NH models. Those SS ones were solid, but attention to detail wasn’t their strongpoint.
I have high hopes for the EW MB .308 on its way here. Comes pretty dear, but nice stuff always does. If rj308 had offered up his SS .270 FW a bit earlier, we might be talking about a SC model instead.
I look forward to your review. Although probably not buying till after the first of the year the EW is what I have my eye on as well. Prefer not to have the muzzle brake but it is removable. I seem to have a harder time deciding on a cartridge than a rifle.In the end anything from a 6.5 up with a good bullet and good placement probably doesn’t make a hill of beans difference on any reasonable shot. Maybe the answer is buy two, stock up on components and worry about other things?
The cartridge was easy for me. The dealer had both a 7-08 and a .308, plus a .300 and maybe a PRC. Always wanted a 7-08, BUT there’s a big pile of .308 bullets and brass here, plus a number of dies, and zero 7mm. Any advantage over distance for the 7 is, as the SCOTUS likes to say, moot for me. It will never be tried past 300 in my hands around here, and around here is the only place I shoot.
Did you order it from Elk County Ammo & Arms? They've had those in stock for a few weeks, now. [Edit: HAD. They're all gone now.] I was thinking about snagging one myself but can't bring myself to do it.
Was the 325WSM a CDNN closeout? A while back they had them for like $600 and I stupidly stared at it until it was too late. I don't need a 325WSM for anything, but for $600, I didn't *not* need one either.
Was the 325WSM a CDNN closeout? A while back they had them for like $600 and I stupidly stared at it until it was too late. I don't need a 325WSM for anything, but for $600, I didn't *not* need one either.
Yes sir. That is exactly the one. I bought the rifle and had 0 need for it but decided to kick the tires. Not a half bad rifle and it’d make a fine donor gun if I get tired of it.
Was the 325WSM a CDNN closeout? A while back they had them for like $600 and I stupidly stared at it until it was too late. I don't need a 325WSM for anything, but for $600, I didn't *not* need one either.
Yes sir. That is exactly the one. I bought the rifle and had 0 need for it but decided to kick the tires. Not a half bad rifle and it’d make a fine donor gun if I get tired of it.
Glad to hear someone was smart! I still can't believe I didn't buy one for the price.
😂 Based on past comments, I've been waiting for you to weigh in on this
You love these Browning rifles. Why do you believe the moa is better than the old tried and true design? You also aren't convincing me that these rifles are better than a pre 64 model 70.
😂 Based on past comments, I've been waiting for you to weigh in on this
You love these Browning rifles. Why do you believe the moa is better than the old tried and true design? You also aren't convincing me that these rifles are better than a pre 64 model 70.
Probably same reason you love your tikkas, remind me again does the tikka use a open trigger or is it boxed 😁🥰😘🥰.
But I do love my classics, just picked up this SA in a 243 Winchester.
😂 Based on past comments, I've been waiting for you to weigh in on this
You love these Browning rifles. Why do you believe the moa is better than the old tried and true design? You also aren't convincing me that these rifles are better than a pre 64 model 70.
Probably same reason you love your tikkas, remind me again does the tikka use a open trigger or is it boxed 😁🥰😘🥰.
But I do love my classics, just picked up this SA in a 243 Winchester.
The question wasn't about Tikka's. It was easy enough to understand. Nice classic. Building up your stainless walnut collection. Good move. Those are damn nice rifles. I'm hanging on to mine as well... Mine was a lot cheaper than yours though..
😂 Based on past comments, I've been waiting for you to weigh in on this
You love these Browning rifles. Why do you believe the moa is better than the old tried and true design? You also aren't convincing me that these rifles are better than a pre 64 model 70.
Probably same reason you love your tikkas, remind me again does the tikka use a open trigger or is it boxed 😁🥰😘🥰.
But I do love my classics, just picked up this SA in a 243 Winchester.
The question wasn't about Tikka's. It was easy enough to understand. Nice classic. Building up your stainless walnut collection. Good move. Those are damn nice rifles. I'm hanging on to mine as well... Mine was a lot cheaper than yours though..
I have 20 classics in various configurations to include two lefty model 70’s.
😂 Based on past comments, I've been waiting for you to weigh in on this
You love these Browning rifles. Why do you believe the moa is better than the old tried and true design? You also aren't convincing me that these rifles are better than a pre 64 model 70.
You've dodged all the reasonable responses about *quality* directed your way. Just trolling now. Have at it.
😂 Based on past comments, I've been waiting for you to weigh in on this
You love these Browning rifles. Why do you believe the moa is better than the old tried and true design?
You yourself made a pretty good argument for these triggers back in 2018.
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
I'm in agreement with South Texas with this one. It's so easy to put an Ernie spring in a moa and have a very good feeling trigger, with a crisp, smooth 2.5 pound pull. I pride myself in being able to fine tune the old style trigger to almost perfection, but have shot pre 64's and bacos side by side and the bacos just feel better. They are designed with a mechanical advantage, that just makes them feel crisper, with less creep. I laugh my azz off when some stupid sob says they are replacing the moa with a timney, because that is a lateral move and waste of hard earned money. You gain nothing. However, with this being said, I still prefer the simplicity and reliability of the old trigger...
😂 Based on past comments, I've been waiting for you to weigh in on this
You love these Browning rifles. Why do you believe the moa is better than the old tried and true design?
You yourself made a pretty good argument for these triggers back in 2018.
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
I'm in agreement with South Texas with this one. It's so easy to put an Ernie spring in a moa and have a very good feeling trigger, with a crisp, smooth 2.5 pound pull. I pride myself in being able to fine tune the old style trigger to almost perfection, but have shot pre 64's and bacos side by side and the bacos just feel better. They are designed with a mechanical advantage, that just makes them feel crisper, with less creep. I laugh my azz off when some stupid sob says they are replacing the moa with a timney, because that is a lateral move and waste of hard earned money. You gain nothing. However, with this being said, I still prefer the simplicity and reliability of the old trigger...
Irony: ignoring all the testimonials about quality and accuracy to fixate on the rifles being made in Portugal (even though the pre-64s weren't the original Winchester corp either)... then quickly changing the subject when Tikka comes up. Where are those made again? Not here... so you must like them for the quality? Not the historical pedigree or where they're produced? Hmmm...
😂 Based on past comments, I've been waiting for you to weigh in on this
You love these Browning rifles. Why do you believe the moa is better than the old tried and true design? You also aren't convincing me that these rifles are better than a pre 64 model 70.
You've dodged all the reasonable responses about *quality* directed your way. Just trolling now. Have at it.
Irony: ignoring all the testimonials about quality and accuracy to fixate on the rifles being made in Portugal (even though the pre-64s weren't the original Winchester corp either)... then quickly changing the subject when Tikka comes up. Where are those made again? Not here... so you must like them for the quality? Not the historical pedigree or where they're produced? Hmmm...
And that's fine. Everyone has opinions and you know what they say about those.
In the context of contemporary rifles out-of-the-box, I find the MOA trigger to be better than Remington's Mark X trigger, which I think isn't all that bad out of the box, either. And the MOA trigger is leaps and bounds better than the Ruger M77 MkII/Hawkeye trigger. In fact, the only trigger I ever had that was really poor was a Ruger Gunsite Scout that had a trigger pull that was so light that you really only had to touch it to set it off. I think it was so light it might have been on the verge of being able to be slam fired. I never replaced it and ended up selling that gun.
All these can be made better. I've never bothered. I always learned to use the trigger that came with the rifle and never had one so bad that I couldn't hit what I was aiming at.
As far as the pre-64, it's a classic. Easily worked on. I would actually prefer that old trigger to the MOA. But those days are over. I've owned 1 pre-64 and 1 post 64 push feed and the triggers were fine.
There's a lot of bench rest shooters at my club, many of whom are shooting extremely high end custom rifles in calibers like 6mm BR who can put 5 shots pretty much through the same hole at 100 yards. I can see the need for the perfect trigger in guns like that. In my hunting guns, the MOA is very good indeed, and better than I need. I've made due with with much worse.
Irony: ignoring all the testimonials about quality and accuracy to fixate on the rifles being made in Portugal (even though the pre-64s weren't the original Winchester corp either)... then quickly changing the subject when Tikka comes up. Where are those made again? Not here... so you must like them for the quality? Not the historical pedigree or where they're produced? Hmmm...
And that's fine. Everyone has opinions and you know what they say about those.
In the context of contemporary rifles out-of-the-box, I find the MOA trigger to be better than Remington's Mark X trigger,
That doesn't take much.. I've nearly filled a trash can with THOSE pos's...
Quote
And the MOA trigger is leaps and bounds better than the Ruger M77 MkII/Hawkeye trigger.
Well, yeah, I'll give you that one..
Quote
All these can be made better ..
OHHH, yeah...
Quote
As far as the pre-64, it's a classic. Easily worked on. I would actually prefer that old trigger to the MOA.
....as does anyone who knows rifles..
Quote
But those days are over. I've owned 1 pre-64 and 1 post 64 push feed and the triggers were fine.
Pre-'06 Classics can still be found - (without that pos MOA trigger) and they're still bringing pretty good prices.. I have just ONE M70 with the MOA trigger - obtained merely for inspection and critiquing, but have never fired it and it will be the very next one sold; hopefully within the month..
Irony: ignoring all the testimonials about quality and accuracy to fixate on the rifles being made in Portugal (even though the pre-64s weren't the original Winchester corp either)... then quickly changing the subject when Tikka comes up. Where are those made again? Not here... so you must like them for the quality? Not the historical pedigree or where they're produced? Hmmm...
And that's fine. Everyone has opinions and you know what they say about those.
In the context of contemporary rifles out-of-the-box, I find the MOA trigger to be better than Remington's Mark X trigger,
That doesn't take much.. I've nearly filled a trash can with THOSE pos's...
Quote
And the MOA trigger is leaps and bounds better than the Ruger M77 MkII/Hawkeye trigger.
Well, yeah, I'll give you that one..
Quote
All these can be made better ..
OHHH, yeah...
Quote
As far as the pre-64, it's a classic. Easily worked on. I would actually prefer that old trigger to the MOA.
....as does anyone who knows rifles..
Quote
But those days are over. I've owned 1 pre-64 and 1 post 64 push feed and the triggers were fine.
Pre-'06 Classics can still be found - (without that pos MOA trigger) and they're still bringing pretty good prices.. I have just ONE M70 with the MOA trigger - obtained merely for inspection and critiquing, but have never fired it and it will be the very next one sold; hopefully within the month..
Irony: ignoring all the testimonials about quality and accuracy to fixate on the rifles being made in Portugal (even though the pre-64s weren't the original Winchester corp either)... then quickly changing the subject when Tikka comes up. Where are those made again? Not here... so you must like them for the quality? Not the historical pedigree or where they're produced? Hmmm...
And that's fine. Everyone has opinions and you know what they say about those.
In the context of contemporary rifles out-of-the-box, I find the MOA trigger to be better than Remington's Mark X trigger,
That doesn't take much.. I've nearly filled a trash can with THOSE pos's...
Quote
And the MOA trigger is leaps and bounds better than the Ruger M77 MkII/Hawkeye trigger.
Well, yeah, I'll give you that one..
Quote
All these can be made better ..
OHHH, yeah...
Quote
As far as the pre-64, it's a classic. Easily worked on. I would actually prefer that old trigger to the MOA.
....as does anyone who knows rifles..
Quote
But those days are over. I've owned 1 pre-64 and 1 post 64 push feed and the triggers were fine.
Pre-'06 Classics can still be found - (without that pos MOA trigger) and they're still bringing pretty good prices.. I have just ONE M70 with the MOA trigger - obtained merely for inspection and critiquing, but have never fired it and it will be the very next one sold; hopefully within the month..
On a serious note all your rifles are New Haven made model 70’s??
Bell and Carlson. I’m guessing yours is one of the very early Portugal assembled models as the simple black stock coloration went away with the transition.
In general they're well made and I would steer buyers to them over the many round bottom push feed cost cutting actions that now infest the marketplace. However, there are two issues I can see: 1) The MOA trigger is a non-solution to a nonexistant problem. The older M70 trigger is superior in every way for the wilderness hunter. Simpler, more reliable, and much more tolerant of water/grime and ice. 2) The supergrade stocks, at least some of them, have a plastic tip. They don't fully dry the stocks, so they shrink leaving the tip proud to the rest of the rifle. What should be their premier stock ends up looking ridiculous. Of course the stock drying issue could also trash a bedding job I suppose, but I've never actually seen that happen.
And the MOA trigger is leaps and bounds better than the Ruger M77 MkII/Hawkeye trigger.
Well, yeah, I'll give you that one..
It's an easy one to give. The M70's CRF feature also works better than the Ruger M77 Mk II's and Hawkeye's CRF feature. Every M77 MkII and Hawkeye I've ever had was CRF when it wanted to. Sometimes they would hold a rim, sometimes it wouldn't. Never had a CRF M70 that didn't do what it was supposed to in that regard.
But then again, Ruger bolt handles aren't time bombs, bound to fly off at any given second. So Ruger does have it's merits.
Oh, and the Ruger stocks are slimmer. If you could get a Ruger stock on a new M70, then you'd have something. If not for that pesky bolt handle.
I’d take a Portugal made gun over about anything else made for the mainstream these days. A 6 dollar trigger spring makes them very serviceable. I’ll still buy up all of the P64’s I can and Classics that I want but the few newer ones I own aren’t too damned bad.
Rugers are great guns as well but I’ve had my fits with them enough to be wary.
I... 1) The MOA trigger is a non-solution to a nonexistant problem. The older M70 trigger is superior in every way for the wilderness hunter. Simpler, more reliable, and much more tolerant of water/grime and ice.
I am asking a serious question.
Have you had any experience where the new Winchester MOA trigger had an issue with reliability, or intolerance of water/grime and ice? If you haven't had any issues with the trigger, do you know anyone who has?
I have owned three BACO-era Winchester model 70 rifles (Sporter 30-06, Featherweight 30-06 and Extreme Weather 30-06). All made/assembled in the USA. No issues with any of them for any issue. All were fantastic firearms. Sold off the Sporter and Featherweight, and kept the Extreme Weather. (no issues with the ones sold, just thinning the herd).
I am always curious how snow, grit and ice get into a trigger. Won't that foul ANY trigger? I have never read about a Timney trigger having "intolerance" to snow/ice/grit, and they aren't much different than the MOA trigger.
I'm not picking on you. My question is a sincere one. Who has had a Winchester MOA trigger "fail", or become "intolerant to snow/ice/grit"? I have not read any specific reports of that happening from actual owners of the BACO-era model 70's. The "Portuguese" model 70 rifles are assembled there, but t the parts are made at the FN South Carolina plant. I do not know if the MOA trigger is made in SC or is subcontracted out and shipped there ( or to Portugal).
Spend $8 and order a trigger spring from "Earnie the gunsmith" online, and you will get a very clean 2.5ish pound trigger pull. My MOA triggers have been outstanding in performance, and reliability/tolerance. It gets cold up here in Maine, and never had any issue with any of them.
The old style trigger on the classics was garbage, period. I've ran Jewell triggers on my main hunting rifle. A model 70 classic 300 ultra. It's been to hell and back in a variety of real nasty conditions and hasn't failed me yet.
I... 1) The MOA trigger is a non-solution to a nonexistant problem. The older M70 trigger is superior in every way for the wilderness hunter. Simpler, more reliable, and much more tolerant of water/grime and ice.
I am asking a serious question.
Have you had any experience where the new Winchester MOA trigger had an issue with reliability, or intolerance of water/grime and ice? If you haven't had any issues with the trigger, do you know anyone who has?
I have owned three BACO-era Winchester model 70 rifles ( Sporter 30-06, Featherweight 30-06 and Extreme Weather 30-06). All made/assembled in the USA. No issues with any of them for any issue. All were fantastic firearms. Sold off the Sporter and Featherweight, and have just the Extreme Weather. Definitely a keeper.
I just think people make statements, maybe regurgitate comments from reading a lot of posts and websites. I am always curious how snow, grit and ice get into a trigger. Won't that foul ANY trigger? Never read about a Timney trigger having "intolerance" to snow/ice/grit, and they aren't much different than the MOA trigger.
I'm not picking on you. My question is an honest and sincere one. Who has had a Winchester MOA trigger "fail", or become "intolerant to snow/ice/grit"? I have not read any specific reports of that happening from actual owners of the BACO-era model 70's. The "Portuguese" model 70 rifles are assembled there. The parts are made at the FN South Carolina plant. I do not know if the MOA trigger is made there or is subcontracted out and shipped there ( or to Portugal).
Spend $8 and order a trigger spring from "Earnie the gunsmith" online, and you will get a very clean 2.5ish pound trigger pull. My MOA triggers have been outstanding in performance, and reliability/tolerance. It gets cold up here in Maine, and never had any issue with any of them.
I've hunted with two Portugal-made M70s in snow and sleet. Granted, I wasn't on a Siberian expedition or anything, but it in the teens and the rifle got snowed on a fair amount. No problems.
My hunch is the trigger hypothetical started as a gun writer saying something about the design meant it *could* happen and that gradually evolved to *it will* happen and then further evolved to *it does* happen... though no one ever seems to have a primary example.
I prefer the old trigger, but ain’t worried about the new one. I’ve adjusted three of the old ones to light, crisp, let-offs. Supposedly the new ones have close to zero after-travel. Hopefully, FEDEX will soon quit tormenting me by slingshotting mine all over the region and get it to the dealer, and I’ll know.
Nice rifles, I'm not a diehard Winchester guy, I presently own 2 BACO Extreme Weathers, a 7x57 Featherweight and a NIB EW in 7-08 that I bought from a member here and remains unfired. The 7x57 has nice wood and shoots 1/2" with Hornady 139 SST's. I had a BACO EW in 7 WSM, it shot 168 Berger handloads (thanks Flattop_Johnny) real good, it kicked too much for me and I sold it. They are very nice rifles with good triggers.
Picked up my EW MB yesterday. Weighs 6lbs 12oz. Stock weighs just an ounce under 2lbs, but feels lighter in hand. Trigger was almost 5lbs. Adjusted it to 3lbs 12oz, leaving a bit on the table as a cushion so the screw won’t fall out. Will probably get a replacement spring, although it’s very crisp with ALMOST no overtravel. While the book says it’s adjustable, what they don’t tell you is you’ll have to remove what looks like 5-minute epoxy glopped over the screws, and dig it out of the hex hole. Put a little nail polish on it to hold it in place.
Stock has a bedding block and what appears to be a separate rear pillar (?). Well floated, with just about an inch of the chamber area well-bedded with epoxy. No spec for action screws, so I went with pretty dang tight for the front and tight for the real, just as I would for a 98. Took the bolt apart, degreased the spring and lubed it with Dri-Slide. Put some moly truck bearing lube on the friction points, and a bit of CLP in a few spots.
The Warne mounts I’m using weigh 7.6 ounces in the packaging, and the Trijicon 3-9 13.
Picked up my EW MB yesterday. Weighs 6lbs 12oz. Stock weighs just an ounce under 2lbs, but feels lighter in hand. Trigger was almost 5lbs. Adjusted it to 3lbs 12oz, leaving a bit on the table as a cushion so the screw won’t fall out. Will probably get a replacement spring, although it’s very crisp with ALMOST no overtravel. While the book says it’s adjustable, what they don’t tell you is you’ll have to remove what looks like 5-minute epoxy glopped over the screws, and dig it out of the hex hole. Put a little nail polish on it to hold it in place.
Stock has a bedding block and what appears to be a separate rear pillar (?). Well floated, with just about an inch of the chamber area well-bedded with epoxy. No spec for action screws, so I went with pretty dang tight for the front and tight for the real, just as I would for a 98. Took the bolt apart, degreased the spring and lubed it with Dri-Slide. Put some moly truck bearing lube on the friction points, and a bit of CLP in a few spots.
The Warne mounts I’m using weigh 7.6 ounces in the packaging, and the Trijicon 3-9 13.
Pics when it’s together.
I called Win they told me 45 in lb on the action screws for my FWT and the Ernie the Gunsmith springs are a big help.
45lbs is pretty dang tight. I’ll order the spring, and hope it gets here before I get to the range.
Not a huge believer in the need for any specific torque for most rifle action screws, just enough to hold stuff together while not bending anything, with floated barrels anyway.
BTW, FWIW I read today that the carbon barrels are hammer-forged, SS is button-rifled.
I have just ONE M70 with the MOA trigger - obtained merely for inspection and critiquing, but have never fired it and it will be the very next one sold; hopefully within the month..
BTW, FWIW I read today that the carbon barrels are hammer-forged, SS is button-rifled.
Source? Not discounting, just curious.
Couldn’t remember where I saw it, so I went back over what I’d read. It’s in the online manual on page 11, BUT the website page below says they’re all button-rifled, perhaps since they went with Bergara barrels.
Discount all you want. I’m often mistaken, occasionally forgetful, and sometimes just FOS😜
I have two Portugal Extreme Weathers, bought one and was so impressed had to have a second. First was. 7mm08, then picked up a donor (30-06) for a 9.3x62mm build.
In the pic, the rings are Warne Mountain Tech, but something didn’t line up quite right, so I replaced them with Signature Zees I had in my Box-o-Junk. Gonna take another swing at it today, using some on-hand handloads.
Scope is a Trijicon Accupoint 3-9 with the excellent duplex and green dot.
Not sure if it’ll make it in the woods, as several others are ahead of it in the queue, all unbloodied. A light trigger spring is on its way. The plan is to work up some fast-movers using 130gr TTSXs, reportedly very deadly, but I have a bunch of others, mostly courtesy of SPS. The abundance of .308 stuff on hand is actually why this thing came to live here, as I certainly didn’t need another rifle. Figured if I was going to get one, might as well get a pretty nice one to burn up all those components. Good thing about a .308 is long barrel life, especially when you load it like a .300 Savage/.30/40/.303/.30 WCF.
The twist is only 1-12”, so really long ones won’t spin. Don't have any of those anyway.
Might set it up with a backup optic like a small prism a la rj308. That will require new rings, as the Zees are a PITA to remove and replace.
Cool. Since that is one of the new ones, would you mind answering a question? The barrel is listed as 22 inches, I believe. Is that with the break or with the protector in its place?
Does anyone make a different trigger for the MOA'd M70s. I think it is a decent trigger when compared to other factory triggers I have felt until I get back to my pre64s and Classic M70 that had the triggers worked on. They felt better before being worked on than the MOA.
I've had at least 25 CT Made Classic Stainless M70's going back since they came out in the early 90's - I currently have two. I've had several SC made BACO M70's with the MOA trigger, and had no problem getting those tuned with the Ernie's Trigger Spring. Currently I have a PT made M70 EW in 6.5 CM. Picked it up a year ago, but haven't shot it yet. I expect good things, and it's definitely more finely made than any CT made M70. I've adjusted my thinking...
The EW are the cream of the crop right now IMO. They're a fine piece of machinery.
I do love my .280 Rem FWT. The action gets better and better (smooth) every use. It's like glass now. I've done nothing to it but put a scope and rings on it.
Cool. Since that is one of the new ones, would you mind answering a question? The barrel is listed as 22 inches, I believe. Is that with the break or with the protector in its place?
Must be with the brake, I measured with the cap, and it’s 21” to the actual end of the barrel, which is recessed just a bit. The brake I removed and carefully placed in a safe place for eventual loss, lest I be tempted to actually use it someday.
Cool. Since that is one of the new ones, would you mind answering a question? The barrel is listed as 22 inches, I believe. Is that with the break or with the protector in its place?
Must be with the brake, I measured with the cap, and it’s 21” to the actual end of the barrel, which is recessed just a bit. The brake I removed and carefully placed in a safe place for eventual loss, lest I be tempted to actually use it someday.
The barrel length is measured from the center of the gas port to the muzzle, not from the front of the receiver to the muzzle.
Does anyone make a different trigger for the MOA'd M70s.
Timney makes an MOA trigger. I bought one and couldn't handle the flat trigger shoe - different from any other Timney I've had (M77 and M700). WTF? Went back to the MOA. I need to put in an Ernie spring this off-season.
I grabbed one of the Supergrades recently. Not a bad gun so. Took a bit to scratch all of the crap outta the trigger weight screw but I milked it down to about 3lbs. So far I only shot the first 20 factory ammo through it.
Once I get some empty brass I’ll see what it does with hand loads. I was kinda hoping it’d like the factory 143’s a bit more.
Timney makes an MOA trigger. I bought one and couldn't handle the flat trigger shoe - different from any other Timney I've had (M77 and M700). WTF? Went back to the MOA. I need to put in an Ernie spring this off-season.
It looks like the trigger on the Browning. I wonder if they're interchangeable. BTW, on my FWT even an Ernie spring didn't reduce the pull that much, but a few careful snips off a coil and it was good to go.
I grabbed one of the Supergrades recently. Not a bad gun so. Took a bit to scratch all of the crap outta the trigger weight screw but I milked it down to about 3lbs. So far I only shot the first 20 factory ammo through it.
Once I get some empty brass I’ll see what it does with hand loads. I was kinda hoping it’d like the factory 143’s a bit more.
Exceptional wood.
DF
It’s kind of a sweetheart DF.. didn’t think I’d like it near this much but I might just get to hunt.
I replaced a couple of the MOA triggers on my son’s rifles, with Timney trigger. I agree, I would have preferred the curved trigger shoe over the flat. Though after some use, I adapted.
Originally Posted by MuskegMan
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Does anyone make a different trigger for the MOA'd M70s.
Timney makes an MOA trigger. I bought one and couldn't handle the flat trigger shoe - different from any other Timney I've had (M77 and M700). WTF? Went back to the MOA. I need to put in an Ernie spring this off-season.
I can’t remember if I posted it or not but the trigger spring took them from 4+ to a nice 2.75’ish. I need to swap the 325’s spring next but the triggers are quite nice now.
The adjustment on the MOA is really there for looks. You could swap the springs over and never put the stud back in and it’d likely change nothing. I put it back to keep crap out but that’s about all it does, at best.
MCarbo has a great video showing how useless the stud is.
They must "clean up" very nicely after you modded them so!
Wow that one is a real beaut, beretzs! happy to see it looks AND shoots well!
The only Portuguese M70 I had was having a lot of feeding issues. A Featherweight in 6.5 Creedmoor. Shot very well but quite a hit or miss feeder. Everything else about the rifle really seemed very nice though. High build quality otherwise. Bet a bit of judicious polishing would have slicked that right up but it was hunting season and no time.
I replaced a couple of the MOA triggers on my son’s rifles, with Timney trigger. I agree, I would have preferred the curved trigger shoe over the flat. Though after some use, I adapted.
Originally Posted by MuskegMan
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Does anyone make a different trigger for the MOA'd M70s.
Timney makes an MOA trigger. I bought one and couldn't handle the flat trigger shoe - different from any other Timney I've had (M77 and M700). WTF? Went back to the MOA. I need to put in an Ernie spring this off-season.
Total lateral move to replace a MOA trigger with anything else like the Timney. An ernie the gunsmith spring works just fine. I've done at least 7 and it has brought the pull weight down to 2.5 pounds. one I replaced, even went down to a crisp clean 2 3/8 pounds. What I think is comical is guys replacing the MOA, just because. Its not necessary. The reasons guys bad mouth them is not because they suck, per se. It is because Winchester/Browning replaced a tried and true trigger system that didn't need touched.
By the way Scotty, you did real well on that supergrade. That is one beautiful rifle and it shoots great. Chambered in 6.5 PRC too? Damn..
Yup. 6.5 PRC. It’s doing pretty good with the 129 Nosler’s and 26. Good enough to hunt with for sure. I’ll mess with it more once I can get brass.
My buddy found some PRC and Creedmoor brass when we were out elk hunting. He asked me how good the 6.5 PRO is.. I told him he needs to get some new glasses... Ha ha..
It’s a neat cartridge. It doesn’t spin my head but performance wise it seems pretty good on first glance. I’ve got a good load for it right now. I’ll mess with it after hunting more.
I did not replace the trigger because of pull weight. I am well aware of replacing springs. The factory MOA trigges were functional in stock form. I don’t recall exactly but think both measured around 3-1/4 lbs on my trigger pull gauge.
I did not like the trigger shoe metal, the look or the feel of it. I assume it is sintered metal. Nor did I care for the forward movement of the trigger shoe. I did not care for the visible spring connection when looking at the trigger inlet. Each to their own, I replaced the trigger. I assume the one piece bottom metal was sintered metal also. It too was replaced. It was also functional. I will suffer the weight penalty of more traditional steel.
The aboves were on a South Carolina stainless laminated Alaskan and Portuguese stainless extreme weather.
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by ldmay375
I replaced a couple of the MOA triggers on my son’s rifles, with Timney trigger. I agree, I would have preferred the curved trigger shoe over the flat. Though after some use, I adapted.
Originally Posted by MuskegMan
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Does anyone make a different trigger for the MOA'd M70s.
Timney makes an MOA trigger. I bought one and couldn't handle the flat trigger shoe - different from any other Timney I've had (M77 and M700). WTF? Went back to the MOA. I need to put in an Ernie spring this off-season.
Total lateral move to replace a MOA trigger with anything else like the Timney. An ernie the gunsmith spring works just fine. I've done at least 7 and it has brought the pull weight down to 2.5 pounds. one I replaced, even went down to a crisp clean 2 3/8 pounds. What I think is comical is guys replacing the MOA, just because. Its not necessary. The reasons guys bad mouth them is not because they suck, per se. It is because Winchester/Browning replaced a tried and true trigger system that didn't need touched.
I recently bought the Model 70 Alaskan In 300wm. Nice rifle, and I can't think of anything about the rifle that I do not like. Trigger, stock, finish, barrel profile, sights, everything is super nice.
So far, I have only shot it with the irons but I'm planning to put a scope on it soon with some QD mounts. Accuracy with the 40 rounds I have put through it so far has been impressive IMO.
For comparison, I also own a pre-64, featherweight .270.
The new rifle seems just as nice. The action is not as smooth but I would expect this when comparing a new rifle to one made in '61 that has been well used.
Glad you are liking it! Why they stopped making the Alaskan in stainless is beyond me however - I’d be surprised if 20% of new rifles sold in AK are blued/wood.
Glad you are liking it! Why they stopped making the Alaskan in stainless is beyond me however - I’d be surprised if 20% of new rifles sold in AK are blued/wood.
Stainless or even ceracoat would be nice options in my opinion. I've made two trips up North so far and both times I brought blued guns because that's what I happened to have at the time. They definitely needed a lot more attention in the field then what I was used to up until those trips.
I recently bought the Model 70 Alaskan In 300wm. Nice rifle, and I can't think of anything about the rifle that I do not like. Trigger, stock, finish, barrel profile, sights, everything is super nice.
I have one in that caliber. .300WM is a caliber I have absolutely no use for in my neck of the woods. But the rifle is flawless. It's a sub MOA rifle even with cheaper Remington Core Lokt and and Norma Whitetail ammo. I wantyed one in .30-06 but found this and and decided it would be my only belted cartridge rifle.
Glad you are liking it! Why they stopped making the Alaskan in stainless is beyond me however - I’d be surprised if 20% of new rifles sold in AK are blued/wood.
The stainless steel and dark maple featherweights are still on my radar.
Glad you are liking it! Why they stopped making the Alaskan in stainless is beyond me however - I’d be surprised if 20% of new rifles sold in AK are blued/wood.
The stainless steel and dark maple featherweights are still on my radar.
Glad you are liking it! Why they stopped making the Alaskan in stainless is beyond me however - I’d be surprised if 20% of new rifles sold in AK are blued/wood.
The stainless steel and dark maple featherweights are still on my radar.
Mine too.
Would also LOVE a Supergrade stainless but alas, no money tree yet And dig my pre 64 too much to sell it.
Got a question I hope ya'll can answer...couple years ago I traded into a M 70 Fwt in 7x57. The dealer is an old friend from back in the days when I was a Wholesaler's rep. I needed to trade out of a stiff kicker 'cause I was still nursing a wrecked shoulder and could not tolerate the recoil of a 270 or bigger that was all I owned at the time and into a "soft kicker". My old friend laid this M70 Fwt 7x57 on the counter and agreed to the swap deal and I went home happy. With my health issues not improving back then I put the rifle way in the closet and never shot it. Today I'm going to hunt it weather allowing. The shoulder issues are not the problem it was thanks to the local VA doc's insight on addressing my problem with out any more reconstruction surgeries.
The wholesaler I had worked for had been started in the late 1870's and sold everything from sporting goods - gun's & train car loads of ammo, farm implements, lawn care stuff to TV's and furniture, and had sold out to a "Bain Capital" kinda holding company in Chicago. Same company did the same thing with Ellett Brothers in South Carolina, Bern's Wholesale in Denver and an outfit in Seattle with 3 warehouse's as I recall. They had also bought the Milwaukee Braves and sold the team to the guy in Atlanta.
Long story short...we got 5 cases of 5 rifles per case in 5 calibers of the New Featherweight rifles from Winchester after they got back in production....so I knew what my old friend had just offered me...but with no history on this particular rifle except to say it had been "slicked up by the original owner" ..ie ..the safety is super smooth, the bolt is the same way, even the folding leaf rear sight works easily ...all things that I felt should have been done in the factory on the 257 Roberts I scored, 'cause nobody else wanted that caliber out of that original delivery and I had to "wear it in" to get close to where the 7x57 I now have, has already been done.. the 7x57's bore is crisp, the muzzle is clean and not worn, and the safety is very smooth. No dent's, dings or scratch's. Only flaw is a small blueing loss on the barrel near the rear sight.
My question is, what is the year of production it was built in?? and current approx value?, without the scope it is wearing now. The SR # is G 1570xxx . Any other info or insight on this rifle would be appreciated. Weather allowing I'll use this rifle 1st on a TP&W Axis Hunt in February that's taken 25 years to win a Permit again. Ron
I have two of the newer "Portugal" M-70's, both are Super Grades. The first is a .270 Winchester, blued with maple stock. My handloads with 140 gr. Sierra TGK's shoot a ragged hole, Barnes 130 gr. TSX, 3/4 inch, it has a 2.5-8x36 Leupold on it. The other is a stainless with walnut in .30-06, also extremely accurate with my handloads, half inch at 100 yards no problem with 165 gr. Sierra GMK's, 180 grain Hornady Interlock, flat base spire points, and 180 grain Norma Onyx, and Alaska projectiles. Scope on that one is a Trijicon Accupoint, 3-9x40. Preferred powders in the 06 is 4350 and Ramshot Hunter, the .270 works best with H4831 and IMR4831 . I am at work so can't post pictures, but both rifles have been flawless thus far. I did have an issue with the .30-06 once while testing loads with 220 gr. Hornady round nose bullets. The action screws loosened slightly from the recoil, a little blue loctite took care of that. I have been eyeballing a new "Alaskan" in .338 Win. Mag, we shall see. I have been very pleased and impressed with these two rifles, and a Featherweight a friend of mine purchased recently. At least with my handloads, getting them to shoot well has not been a problem. In fact the .30-06 shoots very well with various ammunition, even some old 1962, M-72 Lake city Match ammo. Fit and finish, ease of operation and smoothness has been excellent. The only thing I would suggest, besides loctite on the action screws for anything with recoil at say, heavy 06 loads and above. Is to make sure you take apart the bolt when you get it home and clean the firing pin assembly and sleeve, and the inside of the bolt. From the factory they come with a heavy lubricant/preservative in them that gets very gummy in cold climates. Excellent Rifles.
Put in an order for an Extreme Weather MB. Have no idea when i will get it. Wish they didn’t discontinue the non-braked model.
You can still find the non-braked model on Gunbroker. I just got another EW in .270 for my daughter to use. I saw .270’s and also some 325 WSMs without the brake.
Anybody ever have the model 70 box trigger collect moisture and dirt?
Gus's was full of rust and grime. Sobering to see the malfunction so severe, that the firing pin falls when he slightly lifts the bolt.
Gus is out of koyuk, so typically harsh conditions. Rain, winds, dust, tundra brush, extreme temp changes, below zero winter hunts, seal and whale hunting out in the salt..
I've owned 2 BACO made 70's, one a stainless EW in 270 Win and the other a Super Grade in 300 Win Mag.
I changed to B&C factory stocked EW to a McMillan and put a trigger spring in it. That rifle would consistently shoot sub 1/2" groups with several handloads using different bullet weights and powders. I downsized my gun collection due to moved out of state and sold it to a buddy. Offered to buy it back after the move but alas he wouldn't part with it. BIG REGRET on my part.
The Super Grade 300 Mag while stunning to look at was a POS when it came to accuracy. Don't regret letting that one go.
Glad you are liking it! Why they stopped making the Alaskan in stainless is beyond me however - I’d be surprised if 20% of new rifles sold in AK are blued/wood.
Agree. The Alaskans should be stainless and laminate like the SHOT show specials. Make the barrels 23" with iron sights in .30-06, .338 Win Mag and .375 H&H please!
I don't own a Portuguese M70, but the ones I've handled were every bit as nice as the South Carolina ones. Many of them are fancier too. The short action French walnut and maple Super Grades with the 22" barrels are compelling!
IMO the M70 has been fantastic since 2008. Worth every penny.