Pronghorn and up, what’s the worst performing bullet you’ve used? For me it’s gotta be any of the Barnes mono bullets.

I don't know about "worst" as every critter I've shot with it goes less than 3 feet but the 162 Amax tends to disappear in animals. I'm not getting a large, or any exit hole but I do get goo in the chest.

Talking whitetail at 30-170 yards out of a 7-08 over near max charges of Reloader.

Just sort of makes me nervous.

Never lost a critter with either the 105 nor 162 but I wonder if it's coming.

I’m a goo fan personally. Ol man has shot 162 Hornadys out of his 7 mag every since I can remember. Always raspberry gelatin in the chest cavity. 👍

I've never seen a drop of blood from an entry hole with them but, like I said - deer went 3 feet and croaked. So it's ok but just not what I was used to with core loks or partitions in the past.

Outside of being grossly wrong for the game - 22 Hornet on shoulder shot grizzly for instance - its likely hard to chose a bad bullet these days. We are living in the golden age of gun chit.

I can't seem to recall an instance where I told myself, "Gee, that bullet sucked." Unless you include cases of TOO MUCH as being worst then my vote goes to Deer Season XP with I believe a 150 projectile out of a 300WSM. The couple I've seem shot front to back made me glad I didn't eat first before cleaning 'em. 😝

I’ll add Berger 210’s at 300 rum velocity. Pard used em for a while, just shook my head. Fuuckers penciled through like a steel rod, few bulls, antelope and some bucks. Love me some 140 Berger’s though

Core Lokts from the 7mag in the 80s.

Several friends talked about 7mags giving terrible results, i really didnt believe them.


Then we started using them. Hunting elk, and at home on deer.
Saw a guy using 140s destroy a cow, run out of ammo and have to borrow more to kill it.

Dad had experiences from pencil holes to massive damage with the 150s.
One, a doe shot at about 35 yards, penciled through the lungs.
Only his disbelief he could have missed kept him looking until he found a drop of blood.
A long track lead to the deer. Without snow, it would have been lost.

I was loading my owm by then, Dad saw me use Partitions for the elk hunts, and suddenly he overcame his prejudice against reloads.

First, I pulled the Remington bullets from his stash of factory loads, and replaced them
with Partitions and Solid Base Boattails (a great bullet discontinued to push BT's).

The original BT bullets .no problems now .

That ain't no chit, as sorry assed mf'ers I ever saw. it was 20 years before I tried them again. I shot a buck antelope with 120 gr Hornady hollow points out of my 25-06 at 300 yards and the bullets just pencil thru. Haven't used them since....mb

Out of all of the ones if used I was most disappointed with Barnes 150 gr XLC ‘s out of my old ‘06. Not much of a blood trail or exit hole. About the same size going out as going in. Dead deer all the same but it went the furthest with the least amount of blood trail. Perhaps a lighter bullet going faster in mono but that was my experience with them. 180 C&C bullets did better.

Old style BTs fragmented badly. I even had a 7mm 140 fail to exit a small coyote from 362 yards.
I also had poor penetration and a big entrance hole on a doe from an early 6.5 mm 129 SST.

Same here. Had a REAL bad experience when they first came out and didnt touch them again for at least that long. Now they are favorites in a couple guns.

That and Federal stuff back in the 70-80’s

One episode tells you exactly nothing BUT I quit using Bergers after a little 3x3 Mulie decided not to die quickly despite 3 solid lung hits with a 140 gr VLD-Hunting from a 7mm-08.

He died sure enough but it took far longer than I either wanted or expected.

7mm Mashburn.
168g Berger "hunting" bullet.
250 yards.
Good-sized doe.
Off side hole looked like a window.
Kinda reminded me of the John Carpenter movie,
The Thing. Where the dog gets
taken over by the alien and turns itself inside out.
Most disgusting thing I've ever seen. Bullet obviously exploded.
dave

Judman: I see that lure out there shining in the water……hell I’m gonna bite, at least once.

The worst bullets are the one used outside of their design parameters

The first 30 caliber 150 grain SST's that came out, explode on impact. problem is still have 100 plus loaded and laying around.

Never had a bad bullet in centerfire rifles but, CVA Shockwaves 250 gr. in muzzleloader didn't impress me. Behind shoulder shots wouldn't open up good for some reason.

Seems like you don't shoot enough for recreation.

About the only bullets I’ve had poor luck with that wasn’t because I was loading them way faster than they’re supposed to go or way slower were Remington Corelokts and old WW Silvertips. Back in my factory ammo days I had several 140 Corelokts loaded in factory 260 ammo blow completely up when bones were hit, same with the 130s in factory 270 ammo.
Those two loads at least seemed consistent, they’d go to steam when you hit bones. The Silvertips were all over the place, blow a coyote in half with one and pencil on a deer with the next shot.

If you load your own it’s easy to make about anything work well. If they come apart at 300WM speeds, load them in your 30-06 and they’ll probably work great. All I ask is for consistency, if I can find out how they behave I have a wide enough selection of rifles of different chamberings that I can usually find a good use for them.

Like I stated in the premium bullet thread, I don’t care what they say on the box I just like good bullets. If they’ll shoot and behave the same way every time when they land I can adjust the velocity to make them suit my needs.

Worst bullets for killing game?

Simple, the ones that miss!🤣

I wasn’t impressed with them at all. I hit a 220 pound sow trapped in a feeder pen with a 140 Berger out of a 264 Win mag. She went down, got back up a minute later, went back to eating corn like nothing happened. She had a big flesh wound on that shoulder. I had some loaded with 140 partitions with me. She did not get up after hit with a partition. It was 60 yards to that pen.

The 168 VLD has been a real killer on deer and pigs out of a 308.

All bullets that hit wrong spot are bad ..
Stunt shooters beware..

The early Nosler ballistic tip bullets were chit for hunting bullets, I hear they are better now but I have no desire to try them again.....Hb

The very early 130gn .270cal Hornady SST's shot out of my 270WSM were the worst performing bullets I've ever seen, they were super fragile and vaporized at the slightest resistance. From memory, the 270cal 130gn bullet was the first in Hornady line of SST bullets, I only used them a few times then switched the 140gn Accubonds and never looked back.

Nosier bt out of a 250-3000 blew up on the shoulder of a big buck. No more. Edk

I'll echo what others have said - the early Ballistic Tips were ghastly.

I wouldn't really call it a failure, since they killed the crap out of the deer, but the old Hornady 240XTP out of a 44 Mag rifle were absolute meat grinders... looked like a hand grenade went of in there. Behind the shoulder shots, I found jacket fragments clear in the rear quarters.

I ended up switching to flat point 240s after a couple of those shrapnel bombs.

I agree with that notion, although some game bullets do turn out to be "softer" than expected, while others might be the opposite. The early Ballistic Tips and SSTs (along with the current W-W Deer Season XP) are pretty dang quick and violent on expansion. If you know that going in, you can work with it. If you don't know, that's when you get some bad experiences.

I was thinking about this the other morning when I was driving to work. People complain (myself included) at times, when it comes to the cost of a controlled-expansion bullet, say it's a 150gr .308 bullet. But that bullet has to be able to work near and far at speeds from close-range 300 Magnum hits to 400yd 308Win hits. That's asking a lot. And it needs to work on a broadside 100lb whitetail doe in those scenarios, as well as an angling shot on a 300lb mule deer buck. Years ago, you just bought 150 cup/cores for your .308Win and 200gr cup/cores for your magnum, as the bullet company had (hopefully) made that simple and cheap bullet to be effective within its intended design parameters. That's why nobody was that surprised if you blew up a ton of meat with a 150gr cup/core from a 30yd shot from a 300Wby. You were obviously using a bullet that was meant and built to perform nicely in a 300 Savage or .308Win. As a hunter, you were expected to research this and know what's what.

I don't use Bergers anymore. I have shot several deer and pigs with the 140's. I have not lost an animal, but just not happy with the results. Little to no blood trails.

" The bullet penciled through" (or some form thereof) is repeated in this thread.

How do these "evaluators" know this?

It is the vast majority of my experience that a bullet passing through an animal has escaped any chance of such scrutiny and definitive conclusion as to its actual performance while inside the animal.

Perhaps the only statement making less sense is concluding "bullet failure" based solely on appearance of a bullet (or pieces thereof) recovered from inside an animal that the bullet successfully killed.

Early Ballistic Tips (never touted as sturdy) WERE more fragile than the current ones, but it became then and is the bullet of choice now for our Deer/Antelope camp of 54 years. If dead game is the measure, they have never "failed".

Early Ballistic Tips WERE more accurate, too.

An early 150gr Ballistic Tip from a .270 impacted the BALL of the shoulder of a 6x6 Bob Marshall bull, and exited through the BLADE of the far shoulder at 175yards, rolling him in a cloud of powder snow, dead before he quit skidding.

I’ll play.

The old red and white box Federal 150 grain 30 cal Hi Shok bullets. They didn’t hold together well when hitting the brush I tried to shoot through as a kid.

They worked fine when I learned to wait for open shots.

A far better way of conveying what I was trying to say. I love it.

^^^^^^^^
Got to be one for the “You Gotta Be Sheiting Me, Private Pyle” file. Barnes TTSX and LRX are stone cold killers.
Sorry, bro.

Speaking solely of my experience. When I refer to a bullet “penciling through” or ice picking, it’s in reference to a bullet failing to expand. When you drag the guts out of a deer and the lungs have a hole approximately bullet diameter it’s a pretty good sign expansion didn’t happen. I saw this more than once when I was loading the early Barnes X bullets without a chronograph and found out later I wasn’t getting enough velocity to keep them in their design window for expansion. I also recovered a couple that had barely begun to open, the petals were no wider than the bullet shank.

They weren’t bad bullets, I just wasn’t using them correctly.

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/7mm-284-162-gr-interlock-btsp#!/


Running shot on a large mule deer buck at 300 yards uphill , the bullet completely disintegrated , there was pieces everywhere. small entrance wound, no exit. 7mm rem mag.

"When you drag the guts out of a deer and the lungs have a hole approximately bullet diameter it’s a pretty good sign expansion didn’t happen."

OR it's a pretty good sign expansion happened way too early, and the "pencil hole" was caused by a fragment or base section. OR its an equally good sign the bullet may have been damaged prior to arrival at the animal. Without the recovered bullet or a degree in forensics, we cannot know.

Your ones recovered are fair support of your theory (begging the question how they were recovered), and your conclusion toward possible misapplication is commendable.

Finally, when you drag the guts out of a deer, usually he's dead. Good job, bullet!

As mentioned, the early BT's sucked, and I personally never cared for the original Barnes X.

My worst experience with bullet "failure" was at least partially my fault. First safari I read and reread everything I could find on African game and hunting. One of the books was by Kevin Robertson where he talked about slowing the 300gr 375H&H down to 2400fps because he claimed it worked much better on buffalo. I loaded 300 Speer African Grand Slams to 2400fps.
Long story short, the bullets have a soft point so expand quickly and a solid core to drive them through but at 2400fps MV they expanded and stopped. Shooting a cape buffalo and having him run off several times does not inspire confidence in the bullet or the hunter. And yes we recovered all five bullets.

I have had one "wreck" that for several years I thought was a bullet failure. Lined up on my first bull elk at close to 300 yards. The bull was heading downhill and I was looking strait toward his back. I put a 165 Hornady (not positive if it was a boat tail or soft point) right between his shoulder blades and the bull dropped and rolled. I had to go out of sight to get to him and when I got close to where he was supposed to be he was back on his feet. Hours later we caught up to him and my buddy finished the job.

The bullet was placed perfectly between the shoulder blades but failed to break the spine or do significant damage to the vitals.

It was years later that I got more interested in ballistics and learned more about velocity, expansion, design parameters, etc. That bullet was started really slow because my rifle shot best with book starting loads...which was never an issue on the truckloads of deer I killed under 200 yards. It hit that elk really close to the magic 1800 fps and it likely didn't open up much at all. It grazed enough of the spine to knock him out for a bit but not enough to keep him down.

My one "bullet failure" was simply operator error for delivering a bullet to the right place at the wrong speed.

All the rest seem to work fine when placed properly. In the last few years we have taken game with Speer, Sierra, Hornady, Barnes, Nosler, and Berger. Monos, Premium Bonded, and cup/cores. Some worked "better" then others but all did the job.

Exactly right. I've been handloading 165gr Ballistic tips since the late 80's for .308 win. Dropped at least 20 White Tails and my son got 3 and none went more than 20 yards. Longest shot was 200 yards and closest about 5 yards. Shoot them in the heart/lungs and its a very effective loading. Never had a bullet come apart and all but one I can think of was a complete pass through. I suppose if I was shooting a 300wby I might choose a different bullet but at .308 win speeds it works great.

My exact answer. I had them explode on white tail does at 100 yards. I guess the new ones are better, but I am not going to use them again. Plain Interlocks for me now.

Never experienced bullet "failure" per say as every big game animal I've shot has died. I've also never used "marginal" cartridges nor have I taken a shot that I thought was "marginal". I have on occasion been less than impressed with a couple of bullets but again the animal died and was recovered. This sight abounds with what some label as "stunt shooters". If people have success with a 223 on deer, I say go for it. It seems to be working. Same goes with "match" bullets. I have no reason to call anyone out who is successful. I tend to "use enough gun" and tend to pay attention to articles (written by reputable authors who don't compromise integrity for free stuff, MD comes to mind) centered around new bullets. Middle of the road cartridges with middle of the road velocity pushing middle of the road bullets work.

The bullet I revile the most is the .277" 140 Hornady BTSP. I only shot two deer with them, and in both cases, the bullet shattered, blew up, whatever you want to call it, and didn't penetrate much, but blew huge chunks of meat everywhere. I eventually got both deer recovered, but it was not a pretty sight in either case. Those were the early ones with the cannelure WAY back on the bullet. Hornady changed the location of the cannelure later, but it didn't really help them much. I was shooting them out of a 22" .270 Winchester with H-4831 pushing them, nothing outrageous in any way. Those bullets were just dead soft and pretty much worthless. Both deer weren't very big, either, one little doe and a seven point buck of average size for a corn-fed Missouri deer.
I switched over to Remington Bronze Point 130gr. bullets and had wonderful results on the next few deer I shot with that rifle. Then Remington discontinued the Bronze Points as component bullets, which torqued me off considerably. After that, I went over to Sierra 130gr. Pro-Hunter flatbased bullets, which I continue to use today.

That’s weird. The 140gr Hornady Interlock BTSP has been a go-to for my 270. I’ve also used the .308 180gr version in my 30-06 with no issues. This has all been within the last 10 years. Not sure if they are apples to apples with what you’re using.

I’ve never had any monumental failures with rifle bullets. I’ve seen a few 130 hornady .277’s, 165 hornady.308 BTSP, 150&165.308 BT’s spit their cores out but I found all those bullets in dead animals. The one bullet I will never use again is a power belt muzzle loader bullet. Shot a smallish doe with a.50 cal in the shoulder. When I cut her up the bullet never made it through her shoulder blade it was as flat as a quarter and about the same diameter. I think it was about 280 grains but can’t recall now. It killed her but I don’t know how. If it would have been a big buck I doubt I’d have ever found him.

Never could get the early Barnes bullets to shoot well in any of my rifles so I never shot game with them. Others have told me stories of how they are the hammer of Thor and others have cursed them for pencilling through a deer/elk and needed several shots to take an animal down...

However, in my experience the one bullet I've had the worst experience with has been the Hornady Interlock. They have just plain been unpredictable at best. Between me and my son we have shot at least five elk with them in my handloads . Some of them dropped fairly close to where they were shot, others wandered off like nothing happened and once we finally got them on the ground after several shots you could easily see where the bullet had hit a bone and just blew up with no penetration or just glanced off and headed another direction. They shoot to the same POI as my Partition handloads so we use the often for sighting in and practice shooting, but not for game any more. Those chores have been handed over to Partitions and Accubonds in my game rifle and I am quite pleased in their performance so far...

Which Interlocks were those?

I have had problems with the 180 grain 308 and the 225 grain 338 Interlocks. Can't give you the part numbers any more as I've shot them up and don't have any boxes laying around any more...

My Interlock experience is with other part numbers. It has been uniformly good for deer and pigs.

My god you have the fishing fever. I love it.

Barnes and Bergers haven’t been overly impressive to me. The Barnes if no bone is hit and the Berger if bone is it.

Go!

To include bulls and bears too math. I’m a Hornady fan. 🍺

Shoot a lot of interlocks antelope and deer. The flatbase Spire Points allways seem to hold together better than the BTSP versions for me....mb

all bullets work if they are used at the velocities/ranges they were designed for and you do your part and hit the vitals
there is an article on here in the reloading section that talks about bullet design i think a lot of people on this sight need to read it

For probably 10 or more years all I’ve loaded for a buddies .270 is the Hornady 140 g btsp with nothing but dead beasts. No drama.

Exactly right. I've been handloading 165gr Ballistic tips since the late 80's for .308 win. Dropped at least 20 White Tails and my son got 3 and none went more than 20 yards. Longest shot was 200 yards and closest about 5 yards. Shoot them in the heart/lungs and its a very effective loading. Never had a bullet come apart and all but one I can think of was a complete pass through. I suppose if I was shooting a 300wby I might choose a different bullet but at .308 win speeds it works great.

federal terminal accent close far fast slow doesn't matter they do EXACTLY what federal says they do
weight retention and penetration they are the best of both worlds

What's likely the most interesting part is what bullets aren't mentioned here.

Accubonds and anything from Swift I don't think. I have some AB's for my 7-08, haven't tried them yet.

I was too for a long time- until I wasn't. They shot well, extremely accurate, and were relatively inexpensive- but once the failures started happening they just kept happening. It wasn't a tough decision to change given all the great bullets available now...

I remember there was a stink about the 180 grain .308" a while back. It appeared that the Interlock ring was moved closer to the nose of the bullet and if I remember right it had less depth of bite into the core as well.

The worst bullets I used were the early Barnes X monometals. Had me chasing animals all over the place. Barely expanded or didn't expand at all. Never recovered one and had to shoot several animals a couple of times. One Elk I shot with one of them (225 grain .338 X bullet) actually went over one mountain and up the other side of another after crossing LaBarge creek. Thank God for snow. What a bitch of a recovery, my hardest ever. Even today after they have considerably improved their bullets I will only buy their match bullets.

One that I would fall a failure was a Nosler 180 gr. protected point in a 30-06. I had to shoot the deer three timed to get him on the ground. I have to say he was the heaviest deer I have ever shot. Anyway, when I opened him up, one bullet had cut a narrow groove in the top of the heart with no other damage to the muscle. Another went through both lungs with the hole looking like it had been stabbed with a pencil. The last shot broke it neck and put an end to the fiasco. I believe those bullets did no open up and did "pencil" on though. Several years later when chronographs were more available I ran the last few rounds of that hand load to find velocity was 2600 FPS. The deer was at no times more than 35 to 50 yards from the muzzle of that rifle.
On the early Ballistic Tips, they were definitely too fragile. I shot a deer with one that was never recovered. Cartridge was the 7x57,a 140 gr. BT at 2800 MV. Deer was maybe 100 to 120 yards out. Bullet was from an early 100 count box. I will say they were very accurate though.
Only other failure I can think of was the 175 gr. Federal bullet in the 7x57 Mauser. I'd just bought the rifle and that was the only available ammo in town. Shot a deer with it opening day about 8AM. The wife and I spent the rest of the day looking for the deer until it got too dark to look anymore. Went out the next day and found what the coyotes had left. Still haven't figured out how that deer traveled as far as he did. My thoughts are the bullet was too tough to open up and acted more like a solid. A run over a chronograph years later showed that ammo was not delivering the advertised velocity of 2400 FPS but roughly 200 FPS less. That bullet must have acted like a full metal jacketed round.
Paul B.

So far he’s hammering out the best topics yet

Sierras have the worst track record with me. But, on the other hand, their 225 GK is my favorite deer bullet in the Whelen and I love their 77 TMKs.

I’ve had some 6mm stuff grenade on the outside before getting inside real well. Never lost an animal but I moved on to other stuff for that.

I also had a 250 TMJ or whatever explode on a deer leg bone from a ML. My recovery shot from above made a perfect expanded bullet. My fault on that, wasn’t even close to what it was designed for.

Ya don’t shoot any sierras except the 225 gk in my 358’s and whelen. Best bullet for both .

Teal, I notice that as well. The SS II’s are great bullets if ya can get em. 👍

Hell yup. I’d take the SSII over about anything else when they’d shoot for me.

I've never used them but if the ABs stuck, I'll look for them.

Berger hybrids killed well but man oh man did I lose alot of meat. Plenty of other bullets kill just as well but don't destroy nearly as much meat.

MM

Sierra TMKs 130 gr 6.5mm.

Are not advertised as hunting bullets and open way to fast for even deer.

I will don my flame suit... the most failures I have seen has been with Hornady interlocks..... 338 Mag 225 gr failed to penetrate a mule deer buck broadside, 150 yds
Another 180 out of a 300 mag, another mule deer buck , hit quartering onward angle , hit the spine instead of breaking it, traveled down the spine... ended up running to the bottom of the deepest canyon around.... a pack from hell out

The guys mentioning Barnes I'm kind of curious if that is the ttsx or like the original Barnes.... For me the ttsx has been really good the original I had issues in getting them to shoot very well.

Exactly the same bullets I had problems with...

You nailed it.

Damn, 338 and interloks have been $$ for me. Giant mtn caribou at 30 yards in the timber, oryx on the stallion range at 450 yards.. great conversation and cool to hear others experiences. 👊🏻

Mainly the TSX and the original Barnes for me, though some limited TTSX is also in the mix with the same issues.

i've got a box of 162 eld x's I may try out of my 7 mag. but it really, really likes 150 NBTs i just wish i could find some RL 26 to laod it with

After my first safari I swore that you couldn't run fast enough to give me an original Barnes X.

My hunting pard was shooting a 7 STW and 140 Barnes X bullets and I swear we looked longer after he shot a critter with that bullet than it took us to find it to shoot in the first place.

I did shoot a few impala, warthog and blesbuck on a later trip with .243 80 grain TTSX and they seemed to do a good job.

Swift A-Frame and Scirocco are pretty hard to find fault with for sure

Jud, these threads are my favorites as it is hard to test all the different bullets on game, impossible actually. Funny thing is when the Barnes X came out I used them and they were deadly, never has a failure , yet I have read many times they were unreliable...
Another failure I have had was a ttsx 55 gr out of my 220 swift at 3900 fps.... as another poster said it was out of the parameters it was designed for. I believe it blew the petals off instantly and was a miniature solid....
Another bullet that has surprised and impressed me are those Berger VLD's , just like Mule deer said they penetrate a few inches and grenade... instant death

Sometimes, the best bullets are confused with "bad" bullets, because there is little, if any blood trail.

That happens when both heart and lungs are disabled. The same can happen with a broad head.

Good info there. I was wondering. Have some on the shelf and wondered about them.

What were you shooting them from where they were so explosive?

I’ll add my partition experience. Bout 30 years ago my brother shot a dandy 6 point Roosevelt bull, bout a mile from my current residence. Husquvarna 7 mag, 150 partitions, bout 200 yards. Said he shot, no response whatsoever from the bull and his pard that was a twin. Got me, the Ol man and another pard to go look. Cut the 2 sets of tracks in a clearcut, absolutely no blood whatsoever. Tracked em from the clearcut to the reprod. Once in the reprod we lost the tracks, as you do when you look down in the shiit we hunt and can’t see your own feet. We all spread out and started looking, took a hour or so, and 250-300 through the thickest shiit you seen and we found his bull. Perfect behind the shoulder shot, both lungs, complete penetration, nickle size hole all the way through, no bloodshot, not [bleep] in the lungs/chest cavity. Ended up with a dead bull, but a fuucked tracking job.

I see what you did there

Worst for me was a .277 130 grain Speer BT that I tried to use for hunting in the late 80's. I shot 3 animals that fall using that bullet (WT buck, bull, bear) all at ranges under a 100 yards. In every case, the shot would knock them down or stagger them and in each case the animal would get back up and be on the move. Every animal took multiple shots to eventually kill even with shoulder shots. Very little penetration in every case.

On the buck, the bullet literally exploded with less than an inch of penetration. It was a long tracking job. I was young, inexperienced to bullet performance and didn't know this wasn't supposed to happen. That was until my uncle saw the rodeo with the buck and suggested using a Partition, which I did for many years with no problems. I'm pretty sure Speer doesn't make that bullet anymore.

That’s pretty surprising, most folks trip over themselves telling you how well the 215 version works.

I noticed that too. I had some explosive 139g 7mm set's early on too. They worked well on rock chucks.

Bb

I’ll admit Lonny, I’ve never loaded a Speer bullet in my life.

I've had very good results with the 215 hybrid. I killed another 5 point bull last fall with a 215 h at 2800 mv from my 300 wsm.

Bb

Yes sir. I barely if ever hear a bad thing about them.

About 15 years or so ago I had a friend complain the 180 I interlocks I loaded for him were blowing up on game. I'd had good luck with that bullet for years so I looked into it. We glued an older one and a newer one to a board and belt sanded them about in half. The older lot had a thicker jacket and a heavy interlock ring and the newer one had a thin jacket and a barely noticeable interlock ring in a different place.

I called Hornady and finally got through to a tech that told me the engineers change them around all the time trying to make them more accurate. I lost a bit of faith in a bullet I'd used for years after that. I used to use interlocks all the time and loaded them for friends that didn't want to spend much.

One time SPS had nosler 180g partition seconds for about $14/ bag. I stocked up because that's about what I was paying fir 180g interlocks at the time. When I had a friend that wanted a hunting load for regular ranged after that I just loaded them the 180 partition seconds. I've never had any complaints on those.

Right after we sectioned the interlocks I switched my rifles over from to the 165 interbonds for a few years. You don't hear much about interbonds but those things worked incredibly well. They hit hard with a large eide mushroom that held together well.

Bb

The first deer I shot with one of my handloads was with a 117 grain InterLock from a 25-06 at ~3050 fps. She was broadside at roughly 100 yards. I took the high shoulder shot, she dropped. I rolled her over when I got to her and find an exit hole that was 12-14 inches rearward from where I hit her. Again, she was perfectly broadside. While cleaning her, I find that that the core and jacket completely separated. A good chunk of the jacket was stuck in the shoulder not far from where I hit her. The core had taken a hard right turn and left exit hole noted above, damaging some fine blackstrap in the process. I know bone/spine was hit but don’t remember where. I went over 20 years before slinging another InterLock at anything.

I believe that's the stink I referenced above.

I much prefer the ttsx to the tsx in anything under 338 if going monometal. I know why sometimes some tsx bullets make it to market that don't expand. While most work well there are some that fail their own expansion tests. They then retool and get them expanding again but somewhere between 2 tests they started to fail and it used to be that the bullets made just before the failed test where still heading down the line for packaging.

That was nearly 20 years ago before the ttsx. I suggested the ttsx at the time because it allows a larger more forgiving hp. They didn't want to go tipped at first because they felt their bullets were already too long. Thats when they played around with a tungsten rear core called Mr X i think. I told them just go ttsx because people should be using a lighter monos anyways. Later when they decided to try the ttsx i got some 150g 308 cal and shot one diagnoly through a moose at 547 yards. I told them I don't see a use for a 30 cal mono over the 168g.

They can form the hp for the ttsx more reliably even as the tungsten punches that form them wear down a bit. In the larger size the tsx are pretty reliable because the punches wear less and the hp is bigger. The bigger hard kicking rounds can sometimes be a bit tough on tips so I like the 270 tsx in a 375.

Bb

Probably, I wasn't the only one who noticed it. I think I figured it out around the mid 2000s maybe 2004 or so.

Bb

First gen Nosler Ballistic Tips. Couple of the funniest elk races I've ever been a part of were because of those early NBTs. Although there are several others popular bullets here on the fire that are almost as bad, at least for elk.

Killed a cow last fall with a 308 and 150g TTSX. I liked how it performed.

Too bad it's too hard to manufacture a tipped boat partition with a high bc. I think that would be close to my ideal bullet. I know the NAB was meant to perform like that but I'd like to see a soft front core and a separate rear.

Bb

Winchester Failsafes weren't too good at expanding for the short time they were on the market.

After the experience I had with that bullet, I never tried a Speer bullet for hunting again.

Some of the last Silver Tips I used lacked in performance on deer and hogs.

GreggH

Interesting. 2004 I was trying the Nosler 180g Accubonds out of a 30-378. I would consistently lose the Abond tip inside the magazine pan after the first shot I fired. The second cartridge to be chambered would have a cavernous hole in the metplat where the tip had come off.

I was grateful that, one hit from the 30-378, would typically be enough. I sent the (2) partial boxes back to Nosler for them to analyze. They couldn’t come up with a definitive answer on why the tips were coming off.

They asked me if I wanted (2) new boxes of the same? I passed on them and asked for boxes loaded with the Barnes TSX bullet.

🦫

PS

After years of shooting the Barnes TSX. I switched back to the Nosler Abonds. They’ve been great at killing things for me. I don’t have the 30-378 anymore. Maybe that was the problem to begin with 🤷🏽‍♀️

Original BT's so bad its been 20yrs since the last explosion and I'll to this day never give them another chance.. To many great billets to be dickin round.

Yep, and I'll throw in the rest of the monos for good measure. It's not so much about failures, I don't like how they work even when they work as designed. Leukemia bullets.

Misses?

I never like the terminal performance (instant upset and bullet separation on impact) of Fed Hi-shok ('06),. Both on the ram at 330 yards, and on the bull moose at 70, but they got the job done, 2 bullets each, 4 days apart.. Accurate tho - good for target practice- I won't use them on game after those two.

NP 210's in the .338WM are off my list for moose also after one use- front end of first shot at 100 yds fragged into BB shot on the near shoulder blade, peppering the near side lung without reaching the far side lung- never found the much vaunted back piece, which I suspect exited the entry wound. The second round twixt the eyes when he stood up on me at a range of 10 feet put him down for keeps, but I can do without the excitement. Probably work fine on caribou and coyotes tho.

before my reloading days, I bought a box of Federal Factory 300 Win Mag with 200 grain Sierra SPs on them...

edge of a Northern MN swamp, that had a small dirt road next to it... a huge Northern Whitetail, with a huge rack, came thru the brush headed toward the swamp.
I saw it before it stepped out onto the road to enter the swamp.. When it came out on the road, I grunted and it stopped to see where it was from, so it stood still for a second.
I pulled the trigger, and it came down nose first so the hit was good... I turned and grabbed my back pack, that I had taken off, and headed to that spot. It was 100 yd shot.

of course in MN, there was a fair bit of snow on the ground... there was a 2 to 3 foot circle of sprayed blood all over the snow on the road, and you could see where it hit the ground in the snow, maybe a foot deep snow fall...and fresh snow... however, NO DEER. there was also deer hair all over within that circle of blood..

if that deer had gone right into the swamp, 5 feet past the road, I saw no sign of it in the brush of the swamp...

The sun was going down fast and it was Sunday night, the last day of the season... I spent the night in my 4 Runner, and the next morning went out and looked for it..
In November the sun drops fast in Northern MN... I looked for any sign of that deer from 7 AM first light until noon. I had no idea where it disappeared to.... unless Scotty had Beamed it up...

(Yeah, I know_) called Sierra tech line, that after noon when I got home. They told me that my particular choice of round was a poor choice for a 300 Win Mag....that even tho the blood and hair all over the snow, meant that I had a good hit.... but the bullet was meant for Elk or Big Bears.... that it would have passed right thru, before ever getting a chance to open up....yet told me if I would have done the same shot and hit the same spot at 300 yds, the lower velocity, would have given the bullet a chance to open up more...they advised me to next time use a 180 grain bullet of theirs or a 220 grain RN, for that type of application... the 200 Gr SP was too hard, and the bullet passed thru the deer too quickly to do its job at just 100 yards...

Live and learn situation.. too hard of a bullet, going too fast for that short of a distance...

if I would have been using the same bullet in an 06 at those velocities, it would have dropped the deer and he'd have gone nowhere....

and only took my eye sight off the deer a few seconds after he went down to retrieve my back pack with my gear in it...

Live and learn... quit using that 300 Win Mag with factory loads in it...made sure I handloaded it with bullets that were a better choice for my application...

I've only ever experienced a few bullet "failures".... but the failure was really the application, not the bullet...

Whatever bullet Winchester used in their 100 gr 270 factory loads. As Seafire just wrote I’m betting application over bullet but it was a terrible whitetail bullet for me.

Those Federal made Tipped Bear Claws are some great bullets. I’m ashamed of myself that I didn’t buy 100’s of them when they were available. They’ve been nothing but great on paper and excellent hunting bullets.

Sorta the same principle as what the PT is other than the bonded front end. But they expand widely and do the business.

No tracks in the snow huh?


...they must do it different across the river.

At least you waited until you got home (that time).

Winchester 150gr Failsafe and 180gr nosler ballistic tips didn't preform as expected out of a 300 win for me. But as in most bullet failure cases it was the shooters fault in judgement and placement. I've sure killed a lot of deer and hogs DRT shooting FMJ ammo in .223 when all your trying to do is get a hole in them before they leave a farm field or tear out of a trap. The fact is there's no magic bullet.

I'll note an experience with a specific box of bullets, or couple of bullets out of that box. I've had different results with the same bullet on a lot of different animals but anyhow.....

.224 75 Amax. Loaded as a forming load in a .223AI. Very accurate. Shot a coyote at ~75 yards...maybe it was a little more, possibly out to 125. Hammered shoulder and the yote dropped screaming and doing helicopter circles on it's side. I watch/listen for a little while thinking it's going to end but it gets louder. I put another in it while it's on it's side. It keeps screaming and doing circles. Walk up to it and put it out of it's misery. First bullet blew up on the shoulder. Shoulder was broken but I don't think the bullet made it past the shoulder. Second bullet blew up on it's leg (it was on it's side, foot facing me when I shot the second time). It was ugly. Almost no penetration.

I've killed a lot of yotes, crows, armadillos, foxes, and bobcats with the 75 Amax and I've never seen anything like that before or again. I also shot up the rest of what I had loaded at targets before I went back to it. It doesn't kill as fast as a 50 vmax but it's been dependable....except for that group of bullets.

For straight up killing I have had zero issues with Speer bullets. Mainly hot-cors and the original grand slam, but a few of their other models too. They haven’t been more impressive accuracy wise than anything else but they have killed just fine. Sierras on the other hand…any anything remotely considered high impact velocity has been messy or FMJ like. With or, but no in between. I have not tried the game changer though.

It is always interesting to hear how other’s experiences are different.

I think sometimes there can be freak instances even with good bullets. Two instances of " failures". Years ago in the 90's I shot a nice mule deer in his bed at about 150 yds. Using a 7mm with 160 nosler partitions. At the shot, the buck casually got up literally unaffected. A second shot dropped him in his tracks. I was cussing myself for a no shooting sob. That is until I gutted the deer. The first shot had indeed hit the deer, pinholing through both lungs. The exit hole the same size as the entry hole. Second case a week ago. 243, 105 Berger hybrids. I have killed literally truck loads of critters with this bullet. Deer, coyotes wolves , antelope. They are awesome. Very quick kills, lots of damage inside, ect. I called in a pair of coyotes last week. Shot the first one at about 60 yds, he never took a step. The second one ran out there about 200 yds and stopped to look at the dog. At the shot, the coyote turned and ran, giving no indication of being hit.There was no sound of impact. The coyote ran full out for 150 yds then slowed up. As it trotted, I could tell it was hit. It then walked slowly in a circle, and then tipped over. I looked at the coyote, and found that I had center punched the coyote through both !ungs. The tiny exit hole was no bigger than the entry hole. There was no expansion at all. Not sure why either bullet didn't expand,maybe in and out between ribs, no bone contact, I don't know. But I am confident in saying nosler partitions, and Berger hybrids are still excellent bullets on game. But even good bullets are not perfect. Shoot enough bullets long enough,and occasionally odd things happen.

+1 Shot 2 mule deer bucks with them ~10 years ago and bullets exploded on both of them. Have since tried the 140SST's in .264 and they work as advertised.

Ain’t no bad bullets if you hit em in a good spot. I don’t think there are bad bullets any more, just bad marksmen, but what the hell do I know??

Honestly cannot ever say I was unhappy with a bullet. Perhaps I haven't hunted enough.

To date I've shot moose and deer with, that I remember: Only two things stand out on this list. The 120 gr Ballistic Tip coming apart very badly after going through a doe's shoulder, but it did so in the chest and that big deer was dead very fast...and a 180 gr Accubond from the 300 WM not opening much at all in a small whitetail my best friend shot at very close range.

The 30-06 SST loads were quite mild, as i had intended to shoot them in an M1 Garand and when hunting day arrived, couldn't find my bolt action loads. Go figure. They performed admirably on a cow and bull moose. I don't know how they do going fast. Never neede them to.



223 Rem 55gr GMX Superformance

6.5x55 120gr Ballistic Tip

308 Win 165 gr Federal Fusion

30-06 180gr Ballistic tip
30-06 165gr SST
30-06 Federal 180 gr blue box (Speer?)
30-06 Federal loaded A-Frame
30-06 Federal 180 gr Fusion
30-06 180gr Hdy Interlock RN

300 WM 180 gr Accubond
300 WM 180 gr Power Point
300 WM 18 gr Ballistic Tip

9.3x62 286 gr PPU SP

375 H&H Barnes 250gr TTSX

There was some miscommunication, or somebody fed you a line of bull.

Yeah I've heard variations on this whole "it just zips through, too fast!" thing as well and I really don't see how softer impacts are going to deform/upset bullets more than harder impacts....Perhaps this is overly simplified but push your hand through water and then slap your hand into water...

If there was a 2-3 foot cone of blood, it opened. Animals can do freaky stuff. But a hard bullet going slow won't do better than a hard bullet going fast, IMO. Doesn't make sense?

No, none whatsoever. That's like saying a baseball thrown underhand would hurt more than being thrown 90MPH...

Here's one way to think about it. Suppose I have some old, first-generation Ballistic Tips that are expanding too violently in deer when launched from my 30-06. So the cure is to load them in my 30-378 Weatherby. That way they won't have time to blow up. Right?

I don't think so.

x2

Thanks for this. Explains what happened with that bullet on a maybe 110# CT doe. About 2550 fps impact on a rib, 2" entrance hole I saw in real time even in recoil, fragments made it across midline. DRT, but not exactly what I expected. Couple years later friend hit a Newf moose with .300 Roy factory ammo and that very bullet. Two splashes on impact, required a .338 finisher courtesy of another friend.

Sill have several boxes from that time period, guess they'll be range heads.

We are not shooting game in a laboratory, rather, in many cases a swimming pool of schet and when the bullet reaches its target, we expect it to perform as advertised. The worst bullet I have encountered is the Sierra .257 90 grain HPBT used in the 250-3000 Savage and .257 Roberts. My Dad and Uncles read the Sierra advertising and Ken Waters comments and began using it in their 250 Savages and 257 Roberts. Working up loads in their rifles showed accuracy that bested all other bullets. Euphoric is the best description.

Subsequent use in Wisconsin and Montana deer camps proved the bullet was not reliable on deer.

I had to see for myself, so Dad loaded some for my Savage 99. I killed 3 deer with it at a distance between 175 and 200 yards. All three lung shots, only one bullet exited. Next deer was a nice Mule deer buck that came trotting up out of a coulee and when I stopped him with a whistle he was 50 yards away. Put a 90 gr HPBT into his near shoulder thinking that would anchor him to keep him from tumbling back down into that steep coulee. He bucked into the air and went out of sight into another coulee. I raced over the ridge back expecting to see him down. Nope, he was 3/4 of the way up the wall of the next coulee. I went prone and thru the scope he looked to be about 250 yards and put the cross hairs on top of his neck/back waiting for him to pause. He did and went down at the shot. My first shot splashed on his shoulder and second hit the spine.

Another time, I had the 90 gr splash on a Whitetail shoulder at short range and required a second shot.

Dad and my Uncles were right.

I still keep some of the bullets on hand for accuracy testing. If a .257 caliber rifle does not shoot good groups with that bullet, generally there are other issues.

Quotes:

Sierra .257 90 grain HPBT

Sierra Website

It will perform as a varmint bullet at high velocities, but it may also be used on medium game from smaller-capacity cartridges, such as the 250-3000 Savage and 257 Roberts.

Sierra Reloading Manual 4th Edition

250-3000 Realistically, the 100 grain bullets are probably the best choice for deer sized game. The 87 grain spitzer and 90 grain HPBT bullets will serve well for varmints, but are only adequate for deer and antelope if shots are placed precisely.

257 Roberts Reloaders find the 87 grain Spitzer and 90 grain HPBT serve well for most long-range varmint shooting, while the 100 grain Spitzer and Spitzer Boat Tail give best results on deer-sized game.

Ken Waters - Pet Loads Vo. 1

250-3000 (1975) Our table of loads tells the full story of bullet and load results. I'll just add the comment that I confess to being intrigued with that 90-grain Sierra hollow-point boat-tail driven at better than 2,900 fps. While I realize that it has neither the sectional density of the various 100 grain bullets, nor the ballistic coefficient of either 100 or 87 grain spitzers, it may just prove capable of doing the work of both heavier and lighter weights. I dunno, not having had an opportunity to try it on game, but it will be interesting to watch the reports as they come in from the field on this relatively new bullet.

Haha 😂😂

Bad judgement and bullet placement.

Oh, I see nothing to do with bullet construction, yet when some of us changed to 87 grain Speer HotCors we punched shoulders and most double lung shots were a complete pass thru.

Interesting. I have only used the 87 hot cor from my .250-3000 on a doe antelope but broadside at 75 yards it mushroomed up against the far side hide. No bone was involved other than maybe a rib.

I would respectfully disagree with this statement and if you read the thread all the way through you will see I'm not the only one who has had evident bullet failures....

Sounds about perfect.

Oh no! There was no vaunted "pass through."

LOL!

Maybe ol' Scottie did beam the buck up after all?

I guess so MM.

It's a religion for some.

I guess I believe sometimes it’s great. Sometimes I could care less.

It doesn’t suck to have blood on the trees and brush in thick timbered, heavy veg areas.

Out in the wide open, I’m a whatever sorta fella.

I’d rather pick them up where I shot them most of the time though

Me too.

Ya, it worked perfectly fine in that instance. I did wonder what would happen though if a rib was hit going in, let alone a shoulder bone. I am especially curious now after reading RoundOak's experience.
I think I also killed a fox with that same load but that is it and haven't played with that old rifle in several years.

That old 250 Savage is a gem. I’d bet they knocked a pile of elk over in their day.

My uncles,dad and I ran Speer flat base (hot Cor) bullets exclusively back in the eighties and nineties shooting a lot of crop damage deer. 280’s, 270’s and 25-06’s. Never had issues with a bullet one. We tried some Speer BTs in the 270 and 257 variety and they started to show a little weakness if pushed hard. I still have some 145 gr BTSP 7mm that I use in my 280 Rem. Very accurate and work excellent on deer but I don’t run them hard out of my 280

One man's pass through is another man's over-penetration.

I have used a few over the years. The only one I had issues with is the 7mm 130 Hot Cor flat base. I don't have rifle I can make them shoot out of. I have tried a few boxes of them and they just don't shoot for beans in a few of my rifles. Now, the Boattailed version shoots well. No darned idea.

Maybe you need to re-read what you typed. All 3 deer lung shot and only one bullet pass through? And then you shoot a buck in the shoulder and expect a different result? I call that bad judgement or bullet placement or both actually. At least you figured out what you needed to do to fix your situation.

Example of one. Number of years ago I thought I'd try Winchesters Power Max bonded in my 270wsm. They were fast in my Browning ti 3300 + with 130gr. It had snowed 9" the night before and it was sunny and still in the morning. I left the house crossed the pasture and into the timber. I was sneaking along when I got to the clear cut and started seeing does near me. Wasn't long before I hear a buck gruntting he stops broadside at less than 30 yards. I hold behind his shoulder and shoot. He takes off running tail up waggin back and forth jumping over blow downs like he's the star in a documentary. He goes 100 yds turns left another 30yds and into the thick stuff. I'm thinking what just happened. He is a mature buck about 140 lds or so. I get over to his tracks and see one very small drop of blood. 130 yards latter he's piled up. Dressing him out just looked like a lung shot deer with pass through. If not for the fresh snow I would of needed to borrow someone's dog.

TrueGrit, I would not go so far as to call it bad judgement, rather expectation of an advertised bullet.

It was not a major concern when two bucks were killed with no bullet exit, just a little disappointed because I am in the two hole camp. I was not about to throw the baby out with baby water yet. I had experience busting shoulders with old Hornady 87 grain bullets, so I did not hesitate to take the shot on the Mule deer. After the shoulder splash on the Mule deer and comparing notes with others using the bullet, I decided not to use it on deer anymore. Too bad, it was the most accurate bullet in the Savage 99-F.

Some reading this may wonder why not use a 100 grain bullet on deer. It would not stabilize a 100 grain bullet and was probably the reason why Dad got such a good deal on it. Dad and I checked the twist and a second opinion was obtained with a gunsmith. It was close to a 1-15" ROT.

I had an older (1920’s vintage) takedown 250-3000 Savage 99. Passed it along to my cousin for his boys to have and keep in the family. My grandfather shot a lot of heavy bodied (220+lb) UP bucks with that rifle and 87 grain bullets. Unfortunately things change and there aren’t a lot of 14” ish twist 250 Savages floating around that require a good 87 grain bullet so I’m sure Speer and everyone else doesn’t take the time and resources to build a stout light for caliber .257 bullet. Sucks because that is an accurate and handy little rifle. If only Savage still built them of that quality in say a 9” twist.

Savage came out with the 99-A 1971-1982 in 250-3000 with a 20" or 22" barrel. ROT 1-10"and I bought a used one. Speer has the stellar 87 grain HotCor and that is all I use on Whitetail deer. I could load 100 grain and up for that A, but the Speer is very accurate and has killed a lot of deer.

Roundoak, makes me wonder what twist my 250 is? Brass shell counter and shnable fore end

I just booked a hunt with an outfitter with 25 years in the business,

He says, Please, No Berger bullets on the hunt...Too many bad experiences....

And that was the rifle I was thinking of taking along....LOL.

What ya huntin Ken?

Dall sheep in the Brooks Range, AK.

So now I'll take your other favorite bullet,

Barnes.

Bergers are by far the most hated/loved bullet out there as far as I can tell. People's experiences (my own included) with them are either really good or really bad. Even barnes has some middle ground users, but not berger.

I find that really interesting.

I killed my dall last year with a 6.5mm 135 berger classic.
Solid head on chest hit at 130 yards. He stood up and stared at me on the edge of a 1000 foot cliff. I am sure he would have died right there and soon but the last thing I wanted him to do was fall off the cliff so I put a second round in him, this time broadside. He stumbled for 4-5 seconds then fell over. The first shot---straight on---entered in between the collar bone and neck bone and blew up in the top of lungs. The second shot, tight behind the shoulder also blew up in the lungs but didn't exit or even make it to the far side hide despite not hitting any bone.

They worked and some animals just need shot twice, but I have yet to see a berger shot critter instantly fold up like so many videos show, and so many others say they see. It is so weird how different people have different experiences.

Nice man pretty fine boned critters. You’d think Berger would be peas and carrots

T, any pics of the Ram?

If the Outfitter says Bergers not preferred, I’m not about to start the hunt on the wrong foot,

But damn that Creedmore loves the 140 VLD hunting bullet, most accurate load I have, Tikka, 7.5 lbs scoped and loaded,

Seemed like a great Sheep set up.

I shot quite a few critters with the 105 berger in a 6mm-06. Coyote size to mature muley. Everything died and typically in short order. Rarely got exits on bigger mulies, almost always on antelope/whitetails. I switched to the Barnes LRX for less meat loss when we can't always get it broadside through the ribs. Would still happily kill with the 105 but very pleased with the LRX.

The week before, when I first spotted him.

The Brooks? Terrain looks to be?

Talkeetnas.
It does look similar to the Brooks.

Ya I agree👍

Currently in load development with the 127 LRX for the Creed, Showing potential.

Have a bud who’s killed 10 full curl Dalls, solo walk in hunts. His preferred setup, 30-378 with the 165 Ballistic Tip. He’s killed a couple goats and incidental grizzlies with the same rig. He says he knows they’re bombs but nothing moves much after you land one in the wheelhouse.

His serious bear guns are a 378 and a 460, both pushing TSXs.

Quoting T_Inman

“ It is so weird how different people have different experiences.”

It really is, I gave a M77 tanger in 7x57 to my sister in law many years ago. The most accurate load was the 130 grain Speer boat tail. Everything she has killed with that rifle has been with that bullet. Shots from 30 yards to 200 plus. No issues no drama. Yet others on this thread have had issues with the bullet.

Barnes lovers Barnes haters all based upon personal experiences. Same thing for a variety of bullets.

I have had excellent experiences with the .284 160 Seirra HP game king and less than impressive experiences with the same bullet in .257 120? Grain.

I guess that’s what makes these threads so interesting.

for me.

6.5 eldx.


they shoot great.


tracking is sketchy. no blood trail.

Old school SSTs from my 7RM. They were, how should I put it, exciting with the amount of damage. Straight up craters and bone everywhere. The 129s in 6.5 were crap for penetration but opened quickly and destroyed a lot of tissue. I still have my original 2 boxes of 129 SSTs in 6.5. I might try them in a reduced load in a 260 Rem.

Worst as in they didn’t expand or worse they blew schit up?

Didn’t expand, a Speer hotcore 145gr at 7x57 velocity.
Blow schit up, a Win power point 150gr from a .308 Win.

I just put together a 6.5 creed tikka custom on a KRG Chassis. I'm doing load development with 140 elds but going to do a load with the 127 LRX after I get 100 rounds down the tube. I plan to use both bullets for hunting but for different situations

Worst hunting bullet I ever tried for deer was a 405 grain speer in the 45/70. I was much younger and it was definately the wrong combo for lung shots. Live and learn as you get sick to your stomach watching a deer run off and 3 miles later its still going

This is the Brooks Range.



The north foothills of the Brooks:


Honestly, last year had absolutely horrible success for sheep hunters. I think it was roughly 25% statewide. Not sure about the Brooks Range specifically. This winter did them no favors. If you think you're in good enough shape, push harder.
Good luck come August.

That’s pretty interesting as they’ve been sledgehammers for me. Blowing big holes through deer. I was surprised at the holes till I ran a few into jugs and saw they expanded to over/about an inch.

Sierra most anything.

Yeah my experience is that the Speer 405 is about as soft as a wad of chewing gum.

Yep, understood that Sheep numbers currently are a hot topic, It is what it is...

Motivation? This pic you posted certainly motivates me......

11 day hunt...One way or the other, should be epic.

When you are use to having lung tissue strain through your fingers field dressing a deer and what you find instead is a quarter size hole through both lungs, that should tell you that a 140 grain TSX from a 7mm-08 isn’t your best choice. Slow learner that I am, I would have another ten point buck mount on the wall if I’d have used a faster opening bullet. My only ever deer that got away after leaving only 5 drops of blood.

Sweetheart,

You don't pop holes in every lung a Critter's got and get to [bleep] "boolits",on your "abilities". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

Were did you go to school Stick?

ReeferLady,

I've simply shot more Criiters,with more Chamberings,than your Brokedicktitude could begin to fathom..you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Where do I put my lathe? Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

There's plenty of "respected" folks on these boards that say you need at least 10 examples before coming to any conclusion, so you need to potentially loose 8 more before you're allowed to have that opinion.

I can't say I have seen that happen, but TSX/TTSXs do make lung shot critters die slower on average IME. Not a big fan of them, I am.

I’d concur the .458 400 grain Speer Hot Core bullet is soft but it seems to stick together in my uses. Any by one I’ve recovered from testing or game looked like a wad of chewed gum but it kept some level of integrity and gave decent penetration.

Kid: what bullets do you prefer to hunt with in your .45-70s?

I’ve had good luck with 350 AFrames, 350 and 400gr Kodiaks, and the 350 Speer which is my preference for cost reasons. Only drawback to the Speer is that it’s too long to fit in a Marlin unless seated with the ogive in the case mouth. I shoot an 1886 and it handles them fine when crimped in the cannulure.

Were I to start using it again down here for deer I’d give any of the 300gr HPs a hard look. I have a bunch of old stock Rem 300s and they’re very accurate, they’re very soft too but on deer that would be fine.

For me bullets fired out of a muzzleloader.

X 10,000

Thanks TheKid!

Appreciate the response.

While my Tikka is a 260 and not a Creedmoor, it dotes on the 136/139gr Scenars. I've had nothing but great performance out of them on critters (pronghorn and deer) and haven't caught one yet. Might be worth a consideration.

The worst bullets I ever experienced was a box of Winchester silvertip 170's in 30-30 about 20 years ago, before they thankfully quit making them. I shot a mulie and a whitetail with them, both were through the lungs on an easy broadside shot at about 50ish yards or so. The first shot on the whitetail buck shredded the lungs but none of the fragments made it through the offside ribcage. The one on the mulie blew up only one lung and left the other lung basically undamaged. The one lung was shredded enough that the deer dropped in a reasonable distance but that was the last I used them on deer I just shot them up for practice. The last deer I got with the 30-30 I used the Win power max bonded and that performed much more like I expected, a nice big hole through and through.

All these were on whitetail deer.

Barnes .270, 150gr X-bullet
Hornady .25, 120gr.HP
T/C .50, 370gr..Maxi-ball
.50cal. roundball

The last one ran 250yds. and was lost til the next day

And I killed a Bull Moose with 170 Silvertips in my 30-30 18 years ago and they held together and penetrated well. Perfect mushroom with almost full weight retention

Anything out of a muzzleloader and the early Monolithic Barnes, also Sierra MK, aren't worth doggy poop one coyotes. I don't know how the new Barnes are because there are lots better.

About 9 pages before Speer showed up.

Y'all can relax. I am not any competition for Speer 'hunting' bullets.

P Poor results in Alabama on WT, 270 W 130 bt.

2008, 2009, 2010 several ** not just ONE ** Arkansas WT from @ 80 yds------out to 402 yds. 300 WM, 180 HC......never again.
Yes, deer Died......bullets did NOT perform well.

Jerry

Bullets made by Jabby Steve wHorenady... never buying those poison pills again

Remington Bronze point. Beautiful bullet. Starting load accurate as I worked up groups grew. Used the starting load. .270W 130 gr. 2750 fps. Buck facing away, good rest about 50 yard. Blew a chunk of meat out about fist sized. Next shot as he ran shoulder, same deal, did not break the bone but some frags in the lungs. Next shot Texas heart shot and another hunk of meat gone. A mile later caught him as he lay gasping in a creek. Head shot worked. I guess thats why the quit making them. Got some for sale..

I agree with disliking Core Lokts. My brother shot a small buck and the bullet completely blew up on impact, no penetration whatsoever. That was 7mm REM.

An inaccurate one

Worst in what sense?
1.) Least reliable in terms of putting game down with 1 shot? The more frangible Varmint bullets would always be a poor choice in this respect & are not recommended for big & or medium game for good reason.

2.) Most destructive in terms of destroying meat. Suppose I do have some less than desirable experience here. The more frangible hunting bullets are perhaps less than desirable in terms of preserving table-fair.

3.) Worst in terms of being most effective from any angle, Then the Barnes mono bullets would be considered to be considered among the best options IMHO.

To me this is nearly always not only about the bullets chosen, but about how they are employed. There are simply a lot of good to great hunting bullets to choose from. Our responsibility as hunters are to understand not only, the bullets capability , but our own ability to deliver that bullet in the situation at hand proficiently, or not with the needed reliability. Sometimes we need to employ self control & hold off for a better shot or simply pass on a poor shot choice.

Frankly I am often disheartened to hear accounts of pissed off hunters blaming what they call poor bullet performance on what actually may be more accurately be described as poor bullet employment. Expecting to be lucky on a poor percentage shot is probably best described as un-ethical hunter behavior IMHO.

Most plastic tip bullets don’t kill near as well as good old lead tip bullets. I try to stay away from them. I hate sat and ballistictips

I ask this in a friendly way, but WTF?

I have nothing against "good old lead tip bullets" and use a good number myself, but Ballistic Tips, AMaxes and SSTs have been very fine deer/pig bullets for me and mine.

Bad experience’s or??

Can't say I've ever had a bullet "failure". I've lost 2 deer due to poor placement. One was a 300Win/200 Partition on a whitetail buck @ ~150ish yds. Clipped him across the front on the move and he buckled. I quit shooting assuming he'd tip over, nope, he got a 2nd wind and ran off leaving not enough blood-trail to follow once he went out of sight. Looked for better than 1/2 day and just couldn't find him.

2nd was a whitetail doe, 257Wby/100TSX @ ~250yds and I hit her too far back. She got into a full section of standing corn and we never did find her.

Neither case stopped me from using the same bullet on the same critters for a good long while after the losses. I can't blame anyone but me for those deals. I once asked a gunsmith I used a fair amount if he could build me a rifle that would still be accurate if I jerked the trigger and peeked over the scope as I was firing? That got a pretty good chuckle out of him. I know I'm guilty of the "Jerk/Peek" when I get into a bunch of shotgunning and don't get behind a rifle for a while. It's OK, I'm human, I make mistakes and have shortcomings.

That out of the way, there are a couple of bullets I don't use due to what I've seen from recovered projectiles.

Dad kept an expanded and separated Sierra .277 130gn BT core/jacket. You could dump the jacket out of the core, I can't recall what deer or how far it came out of. Would've been shot @ ~3000fps from a 270Win.

Cousin shot a whitetail w/140gn NBT Fed Premium ammo from a 20" 7-08 in which the same thing happened while butchering, found the jacket and core. I shot a pile of deer from the late 80's through the early 2000's w/.277 140NBT's @ ~2850fps without losing any animals but did lose quite a few front quarters to bloodshot.

.277 150 ABLR didn't "fail" really. I shot a bull elk @ ~125yds. He was almost dead on, just slightly quartered and steeply downhill, I was aiming to stick the bullet just inside the on-side front quarter. My heartbeat lifted the crosshairs a bit and the bull dipped his head to take a step up/forward as the trigger broke and I hit him just behind the ear @ the head/neck junction. The bull went down in a heap, nary a wiggle. I found the slug on the off-side @ the shoulder/neck junction. The core/jacket were still together but went from 150gn to 55gn. I used the bullet on several deer after that and got pass-throughs and good vital damage, about what I'd expect from that bullet. However, despite a fair amount of practice and attention to getting rifles capable to 600+ yds, I still shoot way more animals @ 200yds and under than I do @ 400yds+ and as such, a "splash" is more likely than a failure to expand.

In fairly "controlled" situations on occasion I've used bullets "out of their class". I've taken a few deer w/223 and 50 V-max and 22-250/75 A-max but they've been "gimme" shots and that's what I had in my hands at the time.

I am a big fan of the TSX. I've killed way more animals w/that projectile in various weights/calibers than all the rest combined. For me the affinity has come due to them always being fairly easy to attain accuracy as well as mind-numbing consistency from .243 85's up through .308 200's and a whole bunch in-between. Caliber in, golf-ball sized out, soup in-between. I've recovered a few out of elk and 1 moose and mostly they look like text-book expansions, I have lost a few petals on occasion but most retain all 4 and look great.

I killed my first bull moose at about 75 yards using the same caliber/bullet. Double lunged, no bullet retention. He had no idea where the shot came from, and ran toward me, dying about 15 yards to my left, in a clump of spruce in an otherwise scattered tree area.

I won't ever us e30-06 Fed Hi-Shoks on game again tho. I don't hunt 50 lb meat animals, which with their instant expansion, seems to be what they are designed for. A ram and a moose taken a few days apart, convinced me of that.

Have had bad luck with Hornady 7mm 162 and 30cal 180 .

480 Hornady DGX.
Shed the core, veered off course and never hit vials. Second shot was a cast bullet, penetrated straight, finished the job.

I hear they fixed them but who knows

Never had any problems with Muzzleloader bullets. Maxi Hunters I think years ago, then saboted XTP’s etc and I think last ones was powerbelt bullets or similar. Open sighted TC renegade, place bullet in vitals, walk over retrieve deer. Easy peasy

This matches my experience with the 140 .277 Hornady as well. Total garbage performance. I’ve also had similar results with the Hornady 250gr .358 spire point in my .358s I finally called Hornady to ask what gives with your 250s. I was told that 2400fps is “too fast” for those bullets, that they’re not designed for that sort of velocity. ???!
Hornadys have proven too inconsistent between weights and calibers for me to trust much. The 165 spire points, and now discontinued 220 round noses were always great, while the 180s sucked.

Like so many others... Had a terrible experience with a 165 gr BT when they were first intro'd. That was 94 or 95 or somewhere in there. Didnt use them again til 2013 when I tried them in the 243. They definitely toughened them up cause the 90 and 95's are hammers now. Had some borderline bad experiences with gamekings but I recovered the deer so cant be considered a failure... more of a mess.

Win silver tip's - totally unpredictable on impact. They may turn into a varmint bullet or FMJ!

I remember once it took five rounds of Federal blue box .25/06 ammo loaded with 120gn Speer bullets to put down a good boar. I was hitting him just behind the shoulder/front leg. They were just penciling through. Eventually I hit him right through the thick shoulder pad and it dropped him. For the rest of the trip I aimed to drive the bullet through the heavy shoulder and the pigs just dropped. But aim four to six inches back and they would run. I remember being amazed as I had always thought Speer bullets to be rather soft but this example taught me otherwise. So two totally different killing effects determined by bullet placement.

Ballistic Tips came out about ten years before then, though I can't say about the 165 in particular.

Pretty good bullets now though.

Bergers. My buddy has a 300WM and was using bergers on pronghorn and deer. My god what a mess they made. Looked like you taped a grenade on their side. One hell of a mess.

Old Winchester Silver Tips were the worst I’ve seen. Pretty frangible bullet.

Those who dis Barnes TTSX obviously are lacking on game experience with them or shooting them real slow. But maybe they are shooting them out of a Rem 700 with a Walker trigger and Leupold scope in see-through mounts?

Absolutely the worst bullets are ones that aren't placed in the right spot....mb

Only bullet that I don’t want to see again is the early Ballistic Tip. 165gr .30 is the only version I’ve used. Others have made the case for massive shallow destruction.

Muzzleloader success surprises me. We have used the 250gr .45 Hornady sabot, the 200gr .40 TC by Hornady and the Barnes 200gr .429 pistol bullet. All in CVA Optima using BH209. In only a dozen or so cases all but one worked great. The oddball was a 200gr tipped with full weighed charge. I stuck it near the base of the neck on a nice buck walking toward me at less than 15 yds. It blew up on the spine. As in there was a large cavity in the neck where bone, meat and metal came together. The most damaging bullet by far has been the Barnes XPB.

The early ballistic tip and the early Sierra hunting bullets were nearly explosive. The early top of the line Speer hunting bullet was garbage. The 105 grain Speer 6mm hunting bullet could just as well been a solid.
The early Hornady SST was garbage - again nearly explosive.

Lmfao 😂😂

Even when shot fast TTSX do not kill that fast IME.

How did I forget the crap Winchester deer season bullets?

tell me more... too fragile, too hard, inaccurate? thanks

Hit bone.

Barnes X bullets.for me.

Worst by far have been the pure copper Hawk Bullets in .338 which, in spite of their thick jacket and heavy-for-the-caliber weight would pankake flatly againd the shield of wild boar.