several years ago i bought an older Remington700 mountain rifle in 30-06. i finally got around to trying to work up a load for it for a possible moose hunt. After trying 180 hornady, partitions, accubond and tsx it has shown a definite reoccurring pattern. several groups have two bullets touching or nearly touching and a third thrown out about 1-1.5”. The “thrown” bullet is not showing a pattern in that it may go to 2 o’clock or 9oclock or anywhere else. The stock has had the “hump” removed. Action screws are tight. Rings and bases are tight. Scope is a 3-9 leupold that I’ve had for years and never shown any issues. I’ve only used Norma URP and H4350. I’ve tried starting loads to max in 1 grain incrimants. I’ve tried close to the lands to well off the lands.

I’ve never fully bedded a barrel….. but I’m thinking of trying that. I know Mel Forbes does that with all of his rifles and they have a very good reputation for shooting very well.

The stock is the factory wood Remington mountain rifle stock. I have not bedded the action.

Any input or suggestions appreciated

Ben

i would put the bump back in and see what happens ...a business card under the barrel in the original area would probably work to try it

Is the cold bore shot consistent?

The action needs to be properly bedded in the stock for a Mtn rifle to shoot well. My 1987 mtn rifle in 280 Rem was a squirrely bugger. 2+" groups at 100 yds with horizontal stringing, and mostly plus. Maybe 1-1/2" on a good day. Finally gave it a good bedding job this winter and it made a world of difference. Now it's 1 MOA with a bullet it likes.

every one i ever owned shot really well from the factory

My floated and bedded .260 Remington mountain rifle shoots fantastic.

Ok, I've been shooting my M700 Mtn. Rifle since the mid-eighty's, it started out as a .270Win, and now it's a .30-06, got rid off the BDL-Wood Stock, and went to a Remington HT Synthetic Stock, which I Epoxy-Bedded and Floated that Pencil Bbl. and its spot on for 3-Three Shots in succession, and if I keep-on Shooting, the 4th & 5th will be off by about 1/4-3/8" +/- @ 100yds,,,,,, ie..... Pencil-Bbl. Syndrome... this Rifle REALLY likes 180gr Black-Talon Ammo,,,, I've still got about 10-11 boxes left, and it will Shoot those Remington 220gr's Pretty Dam Good as well, anyway,,,,, you need to Bed that Action, in whatever Stock you use, and have it Floated so a Dollar-Bill will slide all the way under, and right up to the Recoil-Lug on the Action,,,,,, see attachments accordingly....
Best of Luck going forward.....
Lj in Alaska....

Three-shot groups are almost useless because they don't tell you much about anything.

This - 2x shots cold barrel 2 touching or almost equals dead moose!

Ok,,,,, well it's quite obvious, that you have NEVER Shot a Rifle with a Light-Contoured Bbl.,,,, and Yea, it's called Heat and Physics at play.....
Lj in Alaska....

If the first two shoot that well, and after that 1"-2" you have two good first shots and minute of moose for the running moose. I wouldn't worry myself to death.

Is the "thrown" bullet always the 3rd shot in the group?

Ten shot groups don't necessarily have to be fired fast enough to overheat the barrel.

Another thing to consider is that rifles with very light contour barrels often do not have stocks that are the best for shooting from bags on the bench. I have a Rem 700 Mountain Rifle with a very slim barrel. Here's an example of what it will do in a more "bench friendly" stock. This five shot group was fired without any cooling time between shots other than reloading and taking aim.

You’re already minute of moose. I would make sure the stock is properly sealed, bed the action and float the barrel, make sure the magazine box isn’t bound up between the floorplate and action, and go shoot. You can use bedding compound to recreate the hump or even bed the barrel completely. However, I’d start with a floated barrel.

AK375DGR, First of all, thank you for your service, but the debate about the usefulness of three-shot groups to determine much about the long term grouping ability of a rifle or load has been over for quite some time regardless of the weight of the barrel. Just as Mathman said shots can be fired slow enough to not heat thin barrels.

I've seen the same thing across 3 700 mountain rifles. One fix was to use JB's suggestion of a plastic bread wrapper clip under the front action screw point. That barrel will still heat up quickly, but it'll get the first 3 or 4 into a much better group.

Beyond that, I found seating depth to be key in all 3 rifles.

FC

There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to which shot it throws out of the “group”.

I’m aware that three shot groups are not ideal for determining a rifles true accuracy potential….most of the time. But as others have stated that pencil thin barrel isn’t one of my truck axle prairie dog rifles.

For sure it is minute of moose as is.

Thanks to all who have responded. I’ll bed the action and see what it tells me after that. I also didn’t think to check the mag box.

It’s definitely a lot less enjoyable shooting when every time the rifle goes bang it’s costing about $2! Hopefully I can get a good load found and stop sending those high dollar bullets into my dirt pile and into a moose.

It can be a big deal. I turned a Model 7 from a sprayer into a shooter by unbinding its magazine box.

Ok, your Target Post is depicting exactly what I was talking about, ie... 4th and 5th Shots shown somewhat away from the Original Group of 3, and Yes,,,, I understand that one can Fire at a slower Rate, and not Heat-up said Bbl, I spent 6yrs in the MARINES, with 3-Tours in VietNam, I think I know how to fire a Rifle, and then some,,,,, and for those of you that might remember a GunSmith named P.O. Ackley, the GunSmith that did the work on my M700 in the 90's is the one that said I should use the Quick 3-Shot Rule for this Mtn. Rifle, because of the Bbl's Profile,,,,, and Yea, he used to work for P.O. before starting his own shop.....
Lj in Alaska....

My 1st gen 700 ti 30-06 shot 1/2 moa with 150g ttsx over varget. I usually run h4350 in a 30-06 or rl17 or h4831sc with heavies. But, the ti loves 150 ttsx over varget. It has shot that load 1/2 moa for 5 but it's a bit slower load than I usually run in an 06. It clocked about 2880 iirc.

Bb

You did notice that's a 300 yard group, right? The entirety of which fits into a 2" x 2" square.

The colored box is a 1 moa square.

Back that up to 100 yards and it's inside a .67" x .67" square.

I also don't recall the order in which the shots landed.

Great suggestion. Every rifle benefits from a good bedding job.

Good shooting mathman. That heavier 5 R stock, seems to help even though that is a skinny barrel. One thing that guys need to understand is that even though a barrel is skinny, it may still have the potential to shoot very well. It all depends on the quality of the barrel and how it was machined. I've had many skinny barrels that shoot lights out. You may have to slow fire them. IE: 1 shot per minute, but it is entirely possible to put 10 shots into sub moa with a skinny barrel. If it's a good barrel.

So you are saying a skinny barrel can't shoot good 10 shot groups? Boy have you been fn lied to. You better go back to school buddy. Before you get a real education..

"Ten shot groups don't necessarily have to be fired fast enough to overheat the barrel."

I guess that depends on where you're shooting. Much of my load work ups and test shooting takes place in the summer, many times with 110+ heat. The barrel can already be overheated just by being in the sun. Two of my rifles are chambered to the .270 Win. and have barrels that are soda straw thin. One shoots sub MOA and the other is an unknown regarding accuracy. So far it does about 2.5" using the iron sights which is about as good as I can do with my 84 year old eyeballs. The rifle is Danzig Mauser WW2 bring back and the original scope system was removed by a previous owner. Interesting thing about the rifle is it has a barrel that is extremely thin and has a stamp that says P.O. Ackley. My gunsmith recently retired DAMMIT! His estimate to do the bolt handle and rework the receiver was somewhere between $700 and $1,000. There are 8 screw holes to be filled in, then drill and tapped fo a scope mount. There is also a "pit" in the receiver ring about 1.8" deep that has to be filled in and recontoured, plus another on the rear receiver ring that is about one inch square that has to be filled in. Really it all mostly labor costs. All that work to clean up some kind of Mickey Mouse German engineered scope mount. I wish I could do pictures. I might have gotten lucky and found a proper scope mount for a hell of a lot less money. One thing I do know. That rifle with 24" soda straw barrel weighs about 6 pounds without a scope. The other rifle in .270 with a soda straw barrel weighs 7 3/4 pounds with scope, sling and full magazine. It too has a 24" barrel. It's pleasure to carry. It has a few deer to its credit.
PJ

Since the OP was concerned about a recurring pattern of 2 bullets close and a third thrown some distance away, it brought to mind a post that was on the campfire some years ago. I copied it and saved it, but I must admit I never tried the recommended procedure to see if it works.

To wit: "You start by examining the average of your groups shape. If there are 2 together and the 3rd shot out of the group, the OAL is too long for your rifle chamber and you need to seat the bullet deeper.

I turn the die a 1/4 turn at a time and repeat until the 3rd bullet comes into the group."

Is this a generally recognized technique? Anyone ever tried it to see if it works?

I have a Rem 700 mnt rifle in 30-06.. I don't know the manufacture date. It has the safety that allows the action to be cycled well on safe. It's stainless with the factory plastic stock. I also removed the pressure point at the fore end for total free float of the barrel. It's always thrown the third shot. I've considered restocking, bedding, and/or tinkering. At some future time I'll likely do just that. When I do, it will be for the enjoyment of messing with it. In the meantime, I've used it to take 4 elk, and recreational shooting. I like the rifle and think it's well made for the price. The stock's a bit cheap, but it works fine.