I am contemplating "trading" guns to replace a lever gun with a bolt gun, and am looking at light short action bolt guns. The 7-08 would offer less recoil, but other than that I cannot see why one would choose a 7mm-08 over a .308?

IMO, there's no good reason to choose a 7-08 over the 308... the recoil difference argument is borderline ridiculous (just a general observation, not a flame on you).

I could see doing a 6.5-08 over the 308 as there's more separation between the two.

IMO, nothing really and if you are running factory ammo there is in the areas I patrol a ton load of different choices around for the 308 compared to the 7/08.

I would say though that there is normally more than enough 7/08 around as well. Just not as big a smorgasboard of ammo if that matters to you.

I just picked up a 700/youth in 308 and am putting it in a Ti take off. I would of gone 7/08 if it would of come my way first.

I really don't feel it matters at all, this just comes down to micro mgt.

Good luck on your decision, I would consider find a rifle you love the way it handles and then buy the round you can find in it.

Mark D

+1

I'm a huge 7mm-08 fan, but have to agree with everything Dobs said.

Dobs,

Let me know how that TI/yute works out.

Will do Kevin, I think it's gonna work out just fine.

Dober

Dober, looks like we were posting the same thought's at the same time... whoda thunk it (grin)...

The Unibuilder is off to work...

Build man build!

Dober

For me, it offered a bigger spread vs. the .30-'06 that I already owned. I didn't need a 7mm-08, I just wanted one.

For some unknown reason, I've developed an irrational mental affinity for this cartridge that I've never fired. So, I bought one. Aint America GREAT???!!!

FC

As for me, I never like the 308. If I need a 30, the 30-06 or 300 wms is just fine. The 7mm-08 on the other hand is a dandy little cartridge and can be loaded up or down to suit your purposes (I know, the same can be said for the 308 but I like a 120 gr bullet in the 7mm over a 130 gr in the 308 for light stuff).

I went the 257 bob route for all three of my sons but if I had to do it over again, I would have chosen the 7mm-08.

If elk were on the agenda, the 308 would get the nod.

For some, the 7mm-08 offers greater "theory appeal", but it the real world, I'd rather have a 308 Win.

Same reasons why I'd rather have a 30-06 instead of a 7mm Mauser........

AD

Teh 260 is the round I reach for, for all of my deer hunting it seems...or a Featherweight I have in 7 x 57...which is just a comfortable package for long hikes in the mountains out deer hunting..

The 7 x 57 negates me needing a 7/08.. as I frequently use 7/08 load data for the Mauser cartridge...

I buy into the less recoil argument, as I notice it substantially over a 308, yet as said above, if I want a 30 cal. I will pull out the 30/06 or if it is needed the 300 Win Mag with a 220 grainer loaded to about 2950 fps...

I have recently swapped off something for a 308 barrel to fit onto my Savage, just to play with the round to see what the heck I am missing.... but I don't think my mind is going to be changed much...

Of anything in 30 cal, the 308 is about the last 30 caliber round I would reach for.. I love the 30/30s, my 30/40 Krag, my 06s and the 300 Win Mag, is just for when I need a big hammer...
So no wonder I have never caught the 308 mystic!

Slightly less recoil, slightly better ballistics with bullets of similar SDs. Both are more than ample for deer sized game out to any distance most would want to attempt a shot. With proper handloads, I would say both are ok for elk out to 250-300 yards. If I didn't handload, I would probably go with a 308 over the 7-08. Handloading and shooting the 7-08 is just more fun for me, and really brings out the best in that cartridge.

A 308 is fine, a 25-308 is way cool.

Don't even get me thinking about that. The 25-Souper is a cartridge I have been thinking seriously about for some time. I think a ligtweight Short Action Mtn Rifle pushing a 110 gr Accubond going 2900-3000 fps would be about the ultimate Deer rifle.

Is that all you'd be able to push a 110 out of a .25-308 or is that velocity range planned?

Having owned both a Rem M 7 in 7mm-08 and several Rem 600's and 700's in .308 i will gladly stay with the 308 over the 7mm-08.
My reason are for this.
Myself and most if not the overall majority of deer hunters dont reload and therefore count on factory ammo to get the job done.
Go to any online place or big box sporting goods store that sells ammo and check what you will find available for both chamberings.
That alone should tell you something.
True the 7mm-08 is a decent chambering but in all honesty it doesnt quite bring enough to the dance to sway me from the 308.
This subject is akin to measuring the .243 VS the 6mm both very fine calibers and chamberings i both have in rifles.
So really at the end of the day it gets down to what ever floats your boat the best.

I have two short barrel 7mm-08s,a Steyr SBS and a Remington model seven. Love them both,the 7mm-o8 with a 20 inch barrel seems to give up very little velocity wise in short barrels.

Not long ago Dick Metcalf did an article featuring one of the little Ruger M77 rifles with a 16.5 inch barrel in 7mm-08. The velocity achieved by the ultra short barrel with factory ammo was very close to what one sees in 22 inch sporters.

The 7mm-08 was introduced in short barreled rifles by Remington, a carbine 788 and the model Seven. It has always been available in carbines and there may be more rifles out there in 7mm-o8 with short tubes than long ones.

As a result, I believe that the ammo manufactuters take special pains with their 7mm-08 ammo to make sure it provides good performance in short tubes since so much of it will be fired in them.

Having said this the 308 is an excelent cartridge,it is also a very good choice in short barrels. To me it does seem to generate a little more recoil and muzzle blast in short rifles but others say they really can't tell the difference.

As far as field performance on game animals,the effect on critters is pretty much identical, the trajectory of a good 140 grain bullet in a 7mm-08 carbine is a little flatter than a comparible 150 or 165 grain in a 308 carbine. My Sako and Browning BLR carbines in 308 just don't shoot as flat as my short barrrel 7mm-08, but it is pretty close.I will add that the 308 may be a better stopper of tough stuff in cover, I once used a 308 carbine to save my bacon at spitting distance on one very mad wounded wild boar.

If I hunted in open country or wanted to minimize recoil I would pick the 7mm-08. If I hunted thick cover esp for big tough critters, I think I would lean toward 308 with its heavier bullets.

Either one will work fine most anywhere so get the one you want, you really can't make a bad choice here.



Britt

The 7mm-08 for me, reason coz I just bought one.ha ha ha

No really I've had three 308Win's, this will be my first 7mm-08Rem. Will let you know in about a month which works for me. Pretty sure the 7mm-08 will come up trumps!

Food for thought. The 7mm-08 has about 20% less recoil with equivalent loads.

Get one of each...............

Compare the ballistics at the Remington page. I used 140's in .260 and 7-08 and a 150 in the .308. Note the long range ballistics.

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R260R1*R7M081*R308W1

All three are very close as one might expect. I like the long skinny bullets.

stumpy

7mm-08 has more versitility for me,,, from 100 grain HPs at 3000fps+ to blow up yotes,,, 100 grain HP's at 1200fps for small game a quite yote shooting, 120 BT's for a real flat shooting deer+hogs and down load, 140 Accubond for large deer or elk,,,then there is the 120 and 140 barnes bullets, never used those, after I use up several hundred noslers I may try some.

For me the 308 is a weak 30-06,,, have a 30-30, 30-40, 30-06, and 300WM,, the 308 would not fill any nitch that those already do not,,, the 7mm-08 however does. For an eastern hunter I think the 7mm-08 rules. Back out west the 30-06 or 300WM would be my choice.

Just looked at the chart posted above,,, yep the 7mm-08s have a flatter flight and more retained energy at 100 yards,,, even more on out there,,,, Run a 120 grain BT or triple shock into that at 3000 fps and by 300 yards the energy is the same and they are even flatter shooting than the 140s

No need for the Souper unless you really need a short action, you can do better than that with a .257 Roberts at +P data levels.

Jimmy

I noticed you are from Georgia and are replacing a lever gun. This causes me to guess that you probably hunt in a lot of close cover for deer and hogs. Any of the .308 based cartridges will work but I prefer the parent. I see the 7-08 and 260 as minutely better for long range work but I personally don't like a small fast bullet for close range hunting. With the .308 you can use the 180 grainers in the woods and the 165s or 150s for fields or powerlines.....all without hand loading. That is what I use in my 30-06 and the .308 is pretty much the same...a jack of all trades. In this age of premium bullets, you might be surprised how well the old fasioned 30 caliber roundnose core-lokts work on game inside 75 yards. Ballistics are superior to nothing but they really hammer the deer.

The Bob does just fine in a short action.

Get a 308 Marlin Express . . . . .

BMT

I know your post was tongue in cheek right, good one...grins

Dober

The 7-08 to me, is just like the .280 (or .270 for that matter), slightly flatter trajectory than it's parent cartridge, all things being equal.

In the southeast I just don't see any need for a .308. Maybe a good hog gun if I still cared about that, but for whitetails 140 gr is the ticket for smaller bodied southern deer and a 7-08 is just a flatter shooting platform for the 140 gr bullet than a .308.

I can see people in the upper midwest and out west choosing a .308 over a 7-08 because of the versatility or loads available.

7-08= Higher BC's, flatter trajectory, less recoil. It is also slightly more efficient, meaning the same velocities can be obtained with a couple less grains of the same powder......

That said, field performance is nearly identical with similar weight and type of bullet, until longer range shots come into play and the higher BC gives it the edge....

Nope I usually say exactly what I mean,,,, the 7mm-08 with the 120s is a sweet kicker too,,, having had 2 shoulder dislocations and a slightly messed up neck this is a very nice bonus.

From the 7-08 fans, it kills as well as the .308 in deer size game, sleeker bullets will open up further out, and recoil is reduced with slightly lighter projectiles. Seems tough to argue with that.

I've got a .308 as I have yet to be enlightened

Lee24 can explain it best...

Lee24 knows EVERYTHING ... all from sitting around reading books and doing internet research ...

those of us in the field, making kill after kill ... hell, we don't know jack! ... (grin)

I know Jack, related to Jack,, and he hunts with a 308 and 30-06,,,,, stuborn old cuss he is,,,,,

Texas Hunter,

Maybe the reason the 7mm-08 had more felt recoil in the Model Seven is related to velocity. When I have chrographed both cartridges in 18.5 inch barrels like you describe, 140 grain 7mm-08 loads are going about 150 to 200 fps faster than 150 grain 308 loads. This has been the case with factory loads but handloads can narrow the gap.

I got rid of a little Model Seven FS because its recoil was pretty nasty. My current model Seven has a 20 inch barrel and a laminated stock and is much more comfortable to shoot.

Britt

That makes sense.
And your right,mine was the 18.5 inch barrel model seven.
It was a beautiful little rifle but that reed thin barrel got really hot fast.
Lastly i really wanted to like the rifle but my particular model seven in 7mm-08 couldn't hold a decent group to save it's life.
That compounded by the fact that anything other than Rem 140 Corelockts was almost impossible to find and then when you did find another manufacturers ammo the price was to high compared to the 308 ammo that was readily available in several brands and weights.
Those issues pretty much soured my view of the 7mm-08.
I certainly know it's a good round but from my practical side view points i can live without it.
The 7mm-08 isnt alone in this category.
The 260 Rem,6.5x55,and 7x57's are in the same boat.
All of these are very good rounds i freely admit.
And they are eally great if your a reloder but their ready availabity of ammo is disappointing.

The 7mm-08 will shoot 7mm boolits much more accurately than the .308 will

I'm a little tired of the "availability of ammo" excuse these days. Even though I handload all my 7-08 ammo, I can guarantee that between Federal, Win, Rem, and Hornady, at least 12 factory offerings are available. Which is more than what was available years ago to even those who hunted with the ever popular 30-06 and 270. Plus it's better ammo. They all seemed to "scrape by" just fine........

It's my interpretation that when people talk about the 'availability of ammo', they are not necessarily talking about the total selection available from all mfg's combined ... but rather talking about how easy it is to get your hands on the ammo you want ... i.e. Store "A" might carry about 15 different choices of ammo for your .308 ... but they might only carry about 4 choices for your 7mm-08 ...


As time goes by, and the 7mm-08 continues to gain popularity and 'market share' ... we'll see quite a few more choices come available, and we'll see more of those choices stocked on the shelves of the stores we buy from ...

Store "B", Midway USA, carries at least a dozen. Problem solved......

Midway is great, when you're not in a hurry ...


what happens when you fly out to the middle of nowhere, and for some reason your ammo didn't make it with you ... you go to the local corner store or 'outfitter' store to pick up a box or two of factory fodder ... THAT is when 'ammo availability' becomes a factor ...

Trey----tired of that one too...Bring your ammo to the [bleep]' hunt, or be the camp cook........grin

I've never not had my ammo, on any hunt I've been on ...

of course, there is always the potential for a first time ... but I'm betting I won't see mine ... (grin)


so, on point ... where are we meeting, and what are we hunting?! ...

Speaking of ammmo availablity and such I was just in the local gun shop.

For the 7/08 they had 7 different kinds of ammo sitting on the shelf.

For the 308 there was 26 different kinds.

Just in case anyone cares, which I don't.

Dober

I don't either ... but thank you for validating what I was explaining a few posts above this one ... (grin)

Ughhhhhh, It shoots 7mm bullets!

Pposey-I've been a thinking about your post and I am sure you were just boshin us, but you said you weren't so I just gotta wonder out loud about what you said.

You said it has more versitilty for me, I guess I just don't see it. I don't see it as any more versitile and I don't see it any less.

Today I stopped in the local gun shop and they had 7 different kinds of 7/08 ammo on the shelves, and 26 different kinds of 308.
Without totally micro managing this thing to death I guess I see it this way.

You say the 7 has 100's and 120's, I add to that that the 308 has 110's to 130's. Real world about similar speeds and similar applications. What you can do with one you can do with the other. No more versitilty here at least from where I sit.

You also said that the 7 has 140's and that is true, twer it me for the lil 7 I'd also mention that is also has the 145's/150's/154's/160's/168's/175's.

I'd also mention that the 308 has the 140's/150's/155's/165's/168's/180's and of course the 190's and 200's but those last 2 like the 175 in the shorty 7 are not really needed.

So I just can't see the added versitility that the lil 7 has over the lil 30, it pretty mucho seems like apples to apples to me.

While the lil 7 has a bit higher bc's for my way of going about it both are equal to 400 yds, and after that both rounds need either dotz/clicks/ballistic plex and or some help. And of course a good LRF.

The lil 7 will drift a bit less, but in the real world of hunting this just won't matter one bit. If you have to compensate for one you will have to the other as well.

The lil 30 will punch a bit bigger of a whole and the lil 7 will with like kind bullets penetrate a tish bit further. All of this ballistic gack is pretty much micro mgt 201.

You say that the 308 is a weak 06, I would be for guessing the same could be said of the 7/08 and the 280, same old same old.

Now if you truly believe that the 7/08 fills a nitch for you that the 308 wouldn't then nock yourself out, tis your moolah. And I would guess for you and for your mind it does just that, and that is all you've got to satisfy.

Real world bottom line what one will do the other will do and thats the name of that tune.

Just my thoughts on ballistic gack on the lil 30 and the lil 7.

This isn't rocket science unless people choose to make it such.

Dober

I understand your point.....But my point is that I'm sure that most anything appropriate to hunt with a 7-08, could probably be killed with at least one of the 7 different ammo choices. The same store, years ago(if it existed), probably only had 2-3 ammo choices at most, for the really popular calibers. Somehow, these poor, deprived rifleman, still managed to kill stuff just fine without whining about poor ammo selection........

we agree on all of these points ... 10 years ago, not much 7mm-08 ammo ... these days, it's likely that you'll find suitable hunting ammo for your 7mm-08 just about anywhere ... Regardless, the 7mm-08 still has a long way to go before we see the same amount of selection between the 7mm-08 and the .308 ...

regardless of all that, I am perfectly comfortable with my 7mm-08, as should be anyone that owns one ... (grin)

Never knew it was so much trouble to bring ammo on a hunt.
better not get that .308 then, be much safer with a 30/30 or 06 just in case you gotta buy ammo at Wilber's baithouse and antiques.

Another vote for the 308 because. . . . .













(OK I don't have a good reason)

BMT

They're both a little boring to me. But, if I were going with a short/light (Kimber Montana) I'd go 7mm-08. If I was building one of those McMillan M40A-1(HTG)/Mike Rock snipes...I'd be all over the 308!

No need for the 25 Souper (yeah, I know it would be pretty darn neat). 257 Roberts has it goin' on! If I could ever get a 284 Winchester built, there would never be another need for a 7mm.

The 25 Souper is just cool IMO and it will be my next rifle if there is another.

In regards to your question, I converted a 308 to 7mm-08 just because. Having killed only deer and the occasional varmint with both, they are identical. Pick the one you want - all else is just somebody elses wish.

RH

Like I said Mark for ME it is more flexible,,, I handload all my centerfire ammo and the 7mm-08 is a joy to load for,,, any bullet I have ever tried has shot well at any speed, for ME the 7mm-08 rules over the 308,

and according to the Remington Balistics at 100 yards the better BC of the 7mm has already made a difference,,, not that thats the only reason for the 7mm-08,,, there are several that for ME make it a much better choice.

can any one tell me what the recoil of a 7mm-08 140 factory round is compareable to. assuming same gun weight.

is it like a 7x57 or a 300 savage

When I fly to a hunt, I pack my ammo with all my other hunting gear. I'd have a harder time replacing my backpack or boots than ammo. Thus, I'm starting to think this is mostly a non-issue for me.

But, in true loony status, doesn't that mean I need to buy/build the perfect factory ammo rig??

.308.
Proven.
Established.
Undeniably effective.
Not spoken about enough.
The original short action mountain rifle.

AGW

For the long range rifle matchs and tactical shooting don't people usually shoot a .308 or a .223? I really do not seem to read a lot about the 7mm-08 being used much in long distance shooting.

Read some more. The 7-08 has been popular among metallic silhouette shooters for years. Long before it was "legitimized" by factory loaded ammo.......

Now if we could just get all those folks to vote Republican, we'd never lose another election.

I find it hard to fathom that some would choose a very similar cartridge over a .308 due to differences in felt recoil.

Gotta admit, that was pretty funny.......

When it can be chambered in them. Mine's a Ruger long action, don't believe it fits a Ruger shorty.

Buy the 7mm08s daddy, Get a .308cal and forget about it, Its the better cartridge anyway, The only way to make the 7.08 compete with the .308s versatility is to reload................547.

For the reloader, lots of doors are opened ... versatility abounds with most cartridges when you roll your own ...

While I realize that the .308 and 7-08 are very similar in a lot of ways, I have just found myself gravitating to the 7mm ... I think the loaded cartridge looks sexier ... I like the technical advantages of the 7mm bullets over similar .30cal bullets ... I like the slightly milder recoil of the 7-08 ...

and I like that I was able to find an LVSF in 7mm-08 ... (grin)

How long do you think I need to look at them bullets to tell if they are sexier and what in particular do I watch for.

Dude, if you gotta be told.........

What about if the niche was a short, light, fast carbine for elk in the thick stuff? Would the heavier bullets available in .308 tip the scales that direction?

not for me ... thick or thin, I don't plan on shooting thru anything other than the game I'm after ... and considering that there are 140g TSX's and 160g Accubonds in 7mm ... well, I can't imagine that either of those are going to bounce off an elk ... but I could be wrong ...

I had a 6mm Remington in a 700 ADL, and I had trouble getting max COL bullets to feed from the box. For some reason (and probably that one), the x57 just hasn't floated my boat. I do wish Remington's Short Action was just a leeeetle bit longer.

Yep, me neither, (although my plan has been spoiled by a twig or two!). In one area I hunt there is zero chance of seeing an elk at more than about 50 yds, so I have had a fast little carbine on the to-do list. I want complete penetration from any sane angle and I'm pretty sure I could get it with the .308/200 partition, not so sure with my 7-08. Anybody here done it?

(Been packing a 45 Colt revolver with heavy cast bullets the last couple trips in there, but only had the sights on cows so far.)

I also had a LVSF in 7mm08 but I liked my LVSF 308 better. I no longer reload and my particular 308 was more accurate with factory ammo than the 7mm08. So I sold the 7mm08 to a buddy that reloads. Hes still not been able to come up with a load that will outshoot my 308.( I got lucky with this rifle it is exceptionally accurate.) The availabilty of factory 7mm08 ammo is sad, theres hardly nothing available besides 140gr bullets, if your rifle dont like em your just screwed. I can think of only one factory load that doesnt use a 140gr bullet of some kind, as I remember Remington used to make a 120gr Express Cor-lokt load in 7mm08, although Im not sure they still do............547.

SD, recoil, trajectory, etc...7-08 may be a little better it seems to me, but there's really not much difference.

My real reason for preferring the 7 if I'm honest? It's just a little different and has a certain "cool" factor that I like.

Nobody I hunt with hunts with one, and the guys are always a little intrigued by the little '08 - they want to shoot it, and have been impressed with how it has hammered stuff despite its soft recoil. All that and the fact that I got a good deal on a Montana in 7-08 which HCR had accurized and which is a mighty good shooting rifle with several brands of ammo. I shot 140 grain Fusions 2 to 3 shots a day for several days running and ended up with 8 or 9 rounds in a ragged hole I could pretty well cover with a quarter.

If I'm going 30 cal, it'll be the 300 WSM over a 308. If I don't need that much gun, the 7-08 is just fine.

DJ

I've had a truck load of SA Remmy's in 6mm (700's, M-7, 600's, 660's) and I've never had a single problem with them feeding. Current 700 Mnt rifle in .257 Bob feeds perfectly.
If there's a SA Remmy that won't feed a 6mm or Bob out there, it's the exception.

I should have clarified my post better on this availabilty subject.
It's true going online ti Midway,Natchezz,etc you will certainly find a lot of different 7mm-08 ammo available.
What i was referring to is your typical big box store.
Last night i stopped at an Academy which for those of you who dont have that store in your area it is a sporting goods store that usually has ammo at a price far more reasonable than your typical gun store such as Gander Mountain.
They had 7mm-08 alright.
But only Rem corelockts 140"s.
Same at the Walmart down the street.
Ammo avalability is one reason i use my 243 more than my 6mm.
My 6mm shoots Winchester Power Points much better than Rem corelockts.
Problem is i havent been able to find a big box store in Houston in the last two years that stocks the Winchester 6mm ammo.
Sure i could go to my range if i wanted to pay over 23.00 for a box.
So i mostly now just order it online and keep a couple of boxes handy.
But it is a downer not being able to find what you are looking for.
Again i am not knocking the 7mm-08.
It's just not my first choice.

Man that looks like a huge golden lab rug,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Cast,

If I were hunting elk in your circumstances, I'd go with the 308 because bigger is better on big stuff when the chips are down.

I have put a 308 180 failsafe lengthwise through a bull elk, worked fine.

Just for thought, under your conditions, a 338 federal or 358 win is probably even better.

When I hunted Idaho's River of No Return under similar coditions I carried a 350 Remington Magnum with 225 trophy bonded bullets.

Britt

Kevin,

Great rifle, find me one like it or sell me yours, I'll take a chance on it feeding from the magazine with my boolits.

I have been wanting a 257bob in a Mtn Rifle ever since they quit making the dern things.

Britt

If elk hunting in close quarters, I can't imagine that a full house load from a 7mm-08 using a 140g TSX at 100 yards and closer would leave anything to be desired ...

understand that I'm not an elk hunter, and I've never shot at, much less connected with an elk, so I'm 'speculating' here ... but given what the 120g TSX can and will do, ...

It's not mine to sell anymore! My 8 year old boy shot it for the first time over the weekend and has laid claim to it.
Full power loads with 100 grain TSX's put a big smile on his face.
I'm going to have to load up some plinkers for him so save some money.



.... And I miss that dog, but he sure did taste good!

Old Women

+1

There's nothing I'd hunt with one I wouldn't hunt with the other. But, if .308 recoil was objectionable, I'd likely drop down to a 25, and likely based on the .284 case.

Yes, the .308 win's on bullet choice, factory ammo, availability, selction of rifles et al. That said the 7-08 has a few advantages of it's own.

All that said, the 7-08 with a good 120-140 gr bullet, and the .308 with a good 150-168 gr bullet will take any NA game with good shot placement. Pick your poison and place your shots, it's just that simple.

Exactly, Tom 264 and AGW.

I have shot many deer with the 7-08 and they all fell right where they were standing when I pulled the trigger. My daughter and I each killed deer with a 308 last year and they fell right in their tracks also. I don't think any of them knew the difference. I have converted from a 7-08 fan to a 308 fan but I don't know why.

However, my 270-08 has a sexy looking cartridge. The many 130 grain bullets available for it are just perfect for this case size. I have not shot a deer with it yet but I bet it will work.

If you have any reasons such as BC or lighter bullets pushing you to 708, you should go to the 260 Rem; otherwise there is not a justifiable difference.

Gregory-you're running a 270/08, cool beans if you don't mind PM me a bit about your rifle that round is one I've always wanted to do.

Thx

Mark D

Thanks Britt, good info there.



I'd try either of those if they weren't so hard to come by!

Mark, Yes I am running a 270/08. You and I discussed it earlier in PMs. It is a Model 7 with a 22" Lilja Barrel. Shoots great. I am working down the loads that the previous owner had with it. He liked them hot. I am trying to get them into reason, but it looks like 3000 fps with 130s is very possible.

I guess I'm another one that has had one of the "exceptions."

John

Were they handloads? If so, what was the COAL?
None of mine were over 2.800".
Just curious.

I just like the 7mm-08 better. If I thought there was a difference in effectiveness between the two, I might make a different choice, but I don't...

Jaywalker

I was using 105 gr Speer Hot Cores and was trying to get 2.825", the listed COL. The bullets wouldn't fit squarely in the magazine box. They would get cocked and jam. I had to go to about 2.810" max, they shot better at 2.825 if I fed them singly through, so I guess I was just frustrated that the gun made by Remington for THEIR cartridge wouldn't support THEIR designed COL. At least mine wouldn't. I ended up trading mine for a 30-30 (camp gun) and $100.

OK, I see.

Thanks,

That was one thing I did not like about the Remmy Mnt rifle I had in 7mm-08,,, using polimer tipped bullets you could not set them out far enough to get in the sweet spot close to the lands,,,one thing I like about the savage 7mm-08s,,, the mag box has plenty of room for the longest pointiest of bullets.

That Remmy Mnt riffle had a 2.82 max OAL and still function in the mag box,,, the sweet spot for that chamber /throat was 2.859 OAL with the 120BT,,, setting it that much deeper made a huge difference in groups, from .5moa at 2.859 to 1.5+moa at 2.82 OAL,,,

Both my savage 7mm-08s are in the sweet at 2.853 with the 120BT and there is lots of room left in the box,,, the consistancy with these two guns is crazy,,, one is 2.863 to the lands and the other is 2.865 to the lands with the 120BT,,, both shoot under .75 with the exact same loads of 45 grains varget, 120 BT set at 2.853, and full resized win brass for an average of 2975fps in one and 3010fps in the other.

The shorter remmy box was the only problem I've ever had reloading for a 7mm-08

I pushed that same bullet up to 46 grains varget but report and recoil were up as well as some slight flattening of the primers,,, 45grains has been the perfect deer killer

I guess I see it like this:

If I need a bigger bullet than a 7mm to do the job... I want one that's WAY bigger (.358 or more). This is why I'm not a fan of any .30 cal rifle... I'm not saying they're not effective, in fact quite the opposite. However, I feel the 7mms are equal in killing ability on all game I'd shoot with any gun smaller than a .338 Win. The 30's may pack a bit more punch across the board, but you pay for it on the other end. Make mine a 7mm-08 vs. 308, a .280 vs 30-06, 7 Mag vs. .300 Mag... and so on. If I need a bigger gun, I'll go .358 Norma or .375 H&H, but hey... that's just me. ~JT

+1, what you said.

I agree with the poster who mentioned the 260. If you want something different than a 308 a 260 offers a reasonable difference for deer in particular - well it splits a little thicker hair anyway. If you want less recoil you will have a better chance of actually feeling less recoil than you might with a 7mm-08. that is of course using identical rifles - way too often we talk about recoil and never mention the gun being used. I think the 260 offers more honest versatility too. 90 grain to long arsed 160 grain cover a lot of critters. YMMV

I like my 7mm-08s, but found a like new Ruger 77 in .260 with Vari-X III for el cheapo, so I am sorely tempted to move down a notch. Trying to think of an excuse, but I hate to mess with a new cartridge, when I can shoot 120-gr Remmy and BTs from the 7mm-08. A .260 would be a nice deer for a boy or woman, especially if there was no 7mm-08 or .257 Rob in the house.

I believe that Barnes makes a bullet for that .260:

Diameter Weight Description S.D. B.C. CAT#
.264" 120 gr. TSX BT .246 .381 26441

I certainly wouldn't be afraid to use it on big game out to 400-500 yards. What has been your experience with this bullet in your .260?

Lee- so the 7mm-08 is for men but the 260 for women? That really gets my panties in a wad

Badboyz I went with 140 grain Sierra Gamekings. Figuring fast opening AND good pentration at speeds I would be delivering on target. That might be my favorite thing about the 260 - the velocity just allows so many bullets to work well. Have only one deer with them but I got a complete pass through and the deer died so freakishly fast that I was confused. A 120 Barnes would not suck but not being that familiar with them might wonder at them opening well that far down range. What do you say?

Does anyone have an estimate for the barrel life of a 7-08?

Well, it is not a speed demon, so you should expect real good life out of a 7mm-08 or a 260 Rem.

For me, the 7mm-08 has less recoil and is (IMHO) slightly more accurate than the .308. I like both calibers.

If I expect to make longer shots, I'll go with the 7mm-08. Close-up shots (100 yds or less) and I'll take the .308 along...

This made me laugh

It made me laugh, too. Especially the accuracy comparison. I have not heard of any gov-issued sniper rifles being chambered in the 7mm-08 as of yet. But, how about the 308 in that case?

I bought a Remington Mtn Rifle in 7mm-08 way back in the very early 1990's. I wanted a nice lightweight rifle for carrying all day. At the time, I compared and narrowed my caliber choices to 243, 7mm-08, 308, etc. That is because they made sense in that type of arrangement. I liked the 7mm-08 back then for several different reasons: 1) It was still fairly new, and rather "sexy". 2) I liked the proportional "image" of the round more so than the somewhat "disproportional" look of the 308. 3) Too many people had 308's, but nobody had a 7mm-08. 4) 308 sounded boring, whereas 7mm-08 sounded cool. I no longer have that particular firearm, either.

Guess what? Looking back on my reasoning for picking the 7mm-08 nearly 20 years ago, I now realize that my intuition was based on me more or less being young and dumb. Don't get me wrong; the 7mm-08 is a great cartridge. But, numbers and performance do not lie. And, I have recently done enough studying of each to realize that one is really not worth arguing about over the other (not in my case anyway). So what if the 7mm-08 shoots slightly flatter than the 308 at longer distances. How far are 99.99% of all hunters going to actually shoot at a deer anyway? Maybe 300 yards max? Probably not even that. Is a 7mm-08 going to kill a deer any better than a 308 under those conditions? I seriously doubt it. Is a 7mm-08 going to handle any better than a 308 under those same conditions? Not if you know what you are doing in the first place.

I am in the mood for a new rifle for this fall (see Browning versus Weatherby versus Sako post). My new purchase will either come in 7mm-08 or 308. At this point in time, I am 99.99% certain it will be 308. It just does not make good sense for me to choose 7mm-08 over 308 in my case and I realize that now, years later. I do not reload, and I never will given the fact that I am way too busy dealing with life's other complexities. Therefore, ammo availability certainly plays a huge role for someone in a similar situation. Even with reloading I still do not see how there could be a significant advantage of one over the other to a point to where it matters when speaking in terms of killing big game within reasonable distances.

It is really a moot point, and one cartridge clearly has obvious advantages over the other from a practicality standpoint (and with setting "novelty" aside). As I mentioned, I am pretty sure I know which one I am going to choose.

The bottom line: If you want a nice, run-of-the-mill, "hunting" rifle with accuracy decent enough to take medium-sized game out to two or three hundred yards (far in most cases), then considering the 7mm-08 over a much more popular cartridge like the 308 is really nothing more than a novelty issue. By the way, no offense to the die-hard 7mm-08 fans here because I certainly have not completely ruled it out myself. I just know, deep down inside, that it really is not the most practical choice for me (or for a boatload of other "hunters" out there). On opening day, any deer that falls in the cross hairs of any given hunter's scope ain't gonna give a damn whether it was killed by a 7mm-08 or a 308...

Around 3-5 thousand rounds before accuracy starts to drop off noticably? (I live in hope)

any one read the "go long" article in American Hunter shooting a 308 at 510 yard Caribiu? Went on to say most hunters could not hit anything past 100 yards.

Oops I am wrong about everything. The 7-08 must be better as Remington does not chamber their XCR or Alaskan Ti in .308 but does chamber it in 7-08! I am enlightened. But really what do the buttheads at Remington do, sit around and figure what form of idiocy to try next?

I noticed that, too. Dumb move on Remington's part if you ask me. You know exactly what they're doing, don't you? They have stopped offering the 308 in many of their rifles, but have kept offering 7mm-08 in many more of their rifles just to try to get more people to buy 7mm-08 instead of 308. It will be interesting to see how that pans out over time. I don't see it happening though. I would have considered Remington regarding my upcoming new rifle purchase. I have a 700 270 right now, and it is a nice rifle. But, Remington is not getting my business now if all they want to try to do is force-feed me a 7mm-08 rather than giving me the choice between it and 308. I'll gladly take my business elsewhere.

Have you guys considered the possibility that Remington may just be responding to the market? Maybe the 7-08 is over taking the 308 in new gun sales, not just at Remington, but everywhere.

+1

Get a .270 if you want to see a difference in flat and fast with the same recoil in like S.D. bullets, or a .260 if you want less recoil. I couldn't see a bit o' difference tween the 7 and the .30 to 500 yds, paper, game, and gongs. And that were in some stiff breezes too. Unless you're talking 1k, the drift ain't even that different.

Shaun

+1

Shaun

Maybe so... But, then again, why isn't everyone else doing the same? Look at Browning, Ruger, Weatherby, Sako, Tikka, etc. Do you see any of them offering models in 7mm-08 and not in 308? The answer is "no". Have a look through Browning's 2007 catalog and you will find that the A-Bolt Medallion isn't even chambered in 7mm-08, but it certainly is chambered for the 308. None of Browning's BAR rifles are chambered for the 7mm-08, either. And, you know that plenty of hunters out there definitely buy Browning products. In addition, I recall that way back when, it took forever for Ruger to finally jump on the band wagon and start offering 7mm-08 in anything it produces. Now, anything Ruger offers in 7mm-08 still comes in 308, too. Moreover, don't you find it a little bit coincidental that if what is mentioned above is taking place, that it happens to be taking place by the same company that developed the 7mm-08? Remington is clearly trying to force-feed the 7mm-08 to folks that purchase their higher end products with their recent move, in hope that more people will be won over on the 7mm-08.

One thing is more than likely for certain though; the 7mm-08 isn't going anywhere. It has definitely caught on well enough. Maybe Remington is somewhat afraid after the 260 flop. They are probably a tad bit jealous, too, given the fact that Winchester has developed many more very popular rounds over the years (e.g., 243, 308, 270, 300 mag, 338 mag). Look at what Remington has done (e.g., 6mm, 260, 7mm-08, 25-06, 280, 7mm mag). None of Remington's offerings have ever been as popular and well-established as the Winchester offerings, save the 7mm Remington Magnum. So, of course Remington wants the 7mm-08 to take over. Who knows, maybe it will someday. I doubt it though.

Do a search of available factory ammo for 308 versus 7mm-08 on the Midway USA site. The ratio of available rounds between the two is about 5:1. Easily interpreted as a "supply-equals-demand" type of thing. I'll agree that 7mm-08 has taken over the 308 the day that ratio becomes 1:1, or the table has flipped.

There is no doubt there are more 308's out there right now. Hence, the disparity in ammunition you noted above. There could be however, a shift away from the 308 to the 7-08 in sales of new guns - purely speculation on my part. Maybe the ammo offerings will follow. I own both, I like both a lot. If they had never created the 7-08, I would be perfectly happy with a 308. There is little difference, but there is one. A little less is sometimes more. In this case, I believe the 7mm is the perfect application of the '08 cartridge. I think a lot of other people are starting to realize the same thing here in the last couple of years. There is no question the 7-08 generates lots of "cartridge loyalty" here on the fire. There is probably a good reason for that. More and more, in talking to hunters there is more of at least a recognition that the 7-08 is out there and is a good cartridge. You could be right that Remington is trying to "push" their cartridge. I really think they are more interested in selling rifles.

Sako only offers their Model 85 Grey Wolf in 7-08, not 308. I love both cartridges, but wanted a 308.

Of course the Government issues 9mm's to our troops instead of .45 or .40. Then there's the 5.56. instead of something that is actually effective outside of 200 yards. Not sure I'd put a lot of stock in "Gov issue" having any correlation to "better".

Yeah, that's weird. Maybe there is some sort of mix-up with the info on the websites? Sako Ltd shows that the same rifle is available in 308 in their literature. They don't call it the Grey Wolf though. It is called the, "Laminated Stainless," or something to that effect. Maybe that version of the model 85 is not available in 308 in the states? If that is the case, then that is definitely weird, and really does support the notion that maybe the 7mm-08 is becoming more popular with current hunters.

It can be hyphenated.

Your post brings up a reason not to have a .308 Winchester to hunt with. The dang thing has used up all my reasons to buy another rifle. My wife knows I killed a 6x5 elk at 348 yards with a little 700 Remington Classic, 24" barrel, 165 grain Barnes XLC BT at 2900 fps. I've killed all my mule deer with a similar Remington ADL with 22" barrel, using factory Remington PSP 180 grain bullets. Where is my reason to need another magnum rifle? I'm getting desperate for excuses. Luckily, I have that "big moose need a classic .338 Magnum" story in reserve. Hope she doesn't hear anyone bragging about killing one with a .30-30, 170 grain at 2200fps for crying out loud!
I like the 7-08 because it's the modern, streamlined version of the 7x57mm. It can produce the same velocity with the classic heavy bullet, 175 grain at 2440 fps, from a 19 inch barrel instead of a 26 inch one. I loved the picture of Finn Aagard's dad with two dead lions, taken with his 7x57mm.
One of my email shooting story buddies looked all over until he found a 7-08 on a Model 7, he loves it.

Nothing in the real world...go 308

Listen to Allen Day, he knows as much as anybody about guns

Yea, the 308 case is underpowered!

These threads are nothing more than comedy at best!

MtnHtr

My choice goes to the underpowered 30-06 (308)because I have used this one, a BDL first year with 20" barrel for about 25 years. To the guys that dont like the 308, all I can say is the 15 or 16 bucks I have shot with mine didnt like it either!

yeah i know, i never met a deer that liked the 308

Gotta agree with ya. The five I shot last year with my Montana truly did not like the experience.

I'm thinking of a lightweight 308Win (Kimber?) to supersede my heavier 270Win. Just had orthopaedic surgery on my leg for my knee and i figure the lighter the better. My sons camo 308 Steyr Scout is a great shooter and now i'm a convert!

As for ammo availability, stuff all chance of finding 7mm08 in most outback shops!

Just to add. My son is 16, bought the rifle when he was 14 and he loves shooting it, more than his Sako 223.

Was over at a local Wally World a few evenings ago. They have four different factory round offerings in 308 in two different bullet weights, and by three different manufacturers. Guess what they have available in 7mm-08? Nothing... They don't even stock it. And, that's Wally World, in a decent sized town in the middle of prime big game hunting territory. Something else I thought of at the time was, all of the local specialty gun shops were already closed. What if opening day of deer season was to be the next morning, and I needed ammo in a pinch? I would have been SOL if I had needed 7mm-08 ammo. There's no doubt that 7mm-08 is great, but I sure am glad I went with 308 instead this time around. Of course, you could always argue the fact of "planning a little better" and buy 7mm-08 cartridges from one of the local gun shops a few days before; especially if deer season was to open the next morning.

I would choose the 308 over the 7-08. Both are great rounds and there isn't much difference with either. The same with the 30-06 as opposed to the 280 or 270.

I like to shoot and have no interest in reloading. The 308 and 30-06 are available in cheap practice rounds from Federal American Eagle, Winchester USA and Remington UMC. Consequently, I can shoot alot more with the 308 or 30-06 than I can with other rounds that are just as capable but more expensive.

It also seems that where ever I go you can always find the 308 but you don't always see the 7-08.

I would add that the 308 Win is more versatile on the upper end. Throwing 200 gr bullets at 2450 fps is on par with throwing 225 gr 358 Win loads out to ranges of 250 yards. With 180 gr and 200 gr loads, it is a much better black bear and moose rig than the 7-08 Rem. In real world use, the 308 Win is performing pretty much the same as a 30-06 on soft skin game. The difference in field performance is not discernible. The 308 Win retains very good energy and accuracy out past 300 yards and is comfortable to shoot. So you have a short action that performs like the 30-06 and is in the same class of ballistics and trajectory as the 7-08 Rem. Sweet!

Curious note here, I am at my parents for a week in northern Minne and was in the local Wallmart yesterday and the farm fleet the day b4.

I saw enough 308 ammo to take out a small country and I kid you not not one box of 7/08.

Dober

I have one of each. No good reason why. I like em both without partiality.


Long

I believe it...

Thats reason enough! Some folks suffer from insecurities if they don't see 10 different brands of the same cartridge sitting on the shelf. Visions of being SOL while hunting out in Bumf_k Egypt running rampant thru their brains, they convince themselves their choice is the only choice.

POS 7-08s and a host of others, I think the factories ought to offer only one chambering (like the 30/06) for us so we don't wind up being ammoless the next time we go hunting in India!

MtnHtr

When you going hunting in India?




















Grin...

as for me...

if there were 2 rifles of the same model and configuration sitting on a shelf, and i was looking for something to hunt with, i'd decide more on the basis of individual rifle characteristics than on any practical differences between two cartridges as similar as these...
i'd run the action, try the trigger, look at the fitup on the furniture...

best rifle, near as i could tell, would go home with me..... john w

I've got 2 Wally Worlds and getting ready to have a third within 35 miles from me. The first two have 7-08, as well as Sportsman's Warehouse, GI-Joes, and our local Bi-Mart stores.

If you want scarce, try hunting down 260!!!! Now that is hard to come by.

I had a 308 Model 7 that after installing a Decelerator on was just plain not pleasant to shoot, nor would it should worth a beans.
Rick traded me an ADL take-off 7-08 and the recoil a huge difference, to say nothing of the less than 3/8 groups I got with factory, locally bought ammo.

I think the whole availability of ammo debate is way overstated.

You're gonna fall into two categories:
One, you're the guy who reloads, so you'll not see the off-the-shelf-ammo as a necessity, or even a want.
Two, you're not a reloader, therefore you probably won't shoot your rifle nearly as much as a reloader would, so mail-ordering a few boxes will last you for a long time.

Either way, with all things being equal, I would opt for a 7-08 hands down and that's after shooting both. I'd actually just stick with my 30-06, rather than the 308 in the first place, since I found it had a less sharp recoil too.....

I just can't warm up to the military's wonderbread cartridge.

What does the 7mm-08 offer over the parent .308 WCF? An excuse to buy or build another rifle. Were you all looking for an answer with more depth and meaning?

When I had this choice about two weeks ago, same rifle both ways, I went 7-08. The 7-08 offers....something different. No one I hunt with has one, I've never had one.

I've never hunted BFE and I'm sure I won't be able to for years, so the "can't find ammo" thing isn't a big deal to me. I usually hunt within a few hours of the house, if I forgot my ammo, I'd just run home.

FWIW

I'd add a third category (somewhat tongue in cheek)

3. You're a really lousy shot, you can only hit paper when on a solid bench with bags fore and aft, and when you get to the hunting grounds and want to verify your scope setting you shoot up both boxes (40 rounds) of ammo you brought with you trying to get some kind of workable group from off of the hood of a pickup truck. Have seen this happen.


Added: Hmm, guess this doesn't help the arguments for the .308 or the 7mm-08. Maybe a .22 LR would be better...?

I have seen the 40 rounds off a pick up truck myself....it reminds me of a younger me with a Remington model 7 in .308 that well we have been over this story before.....I shot a 14 inch pine tree in half one day trying to get that damn thing to shoot!

but you guys have convinced me to avoid both and buy a 338 federal due to the intense peer pressure....

That makes two people that had a .308 Model 7 that wouldn't shoot worth a darn. Counting me that makes three - the only Remington I ever owned that wouldn't group. 1 1/2" was about the best it would do on a good day with my best handloads, mostly it was a 2-3" grouper which is pathetic for a Remington and almost unnatural with a .308 of any kind.

Of course a sample of three out of how many made does not exactly give a 95% confidence level, but I'm wondering if Remington had a bad batch of barrels on those M7's at one time? I bought mine in the mid 90's.

same, bought and sold in the mid 90's, killed a bunch of 35 yard deer with that 3 inch grouping rifle but was too loud and gave you a good rap with a 180 grain round nose coreloc..

Bought mine in 2000, so the saga continued a little longer than the 90's.....

I chalked it up to too light a barrel.

I bedded mine and gave it over .080" clearance on the whole tube. Still didn't shoot, so my next course of action was to try and full length bed it........Then it dawned on me; I didn't care for the recoil and wasn't warming up to the cartridge. The choice to go to 7-08 became obvious and the rest is history.

I had a Model 7 from mid 90's that wouldn't shoot. Rem. put a new .260 barrel on for free. Now it shoots great until that whippy barrel heats up.

stumpy

I hunted with a Winchester model 88 in .308 until about 1989-1990 and found out they actually made something different. I sold the 88 and got magnum fever. I've owned maybe 50-60 rifles since then in a varity of calibers and configurations. In all honestly I can't say any of them were/are any better than that M88 .308 was. Some where more accurate and some where prettier, but none where more effective.

Terry

My model 7 WAS a 7mm-08 and couldn't shoot a group to save it's life.
3-4" was the norm.
It was manufactured i believe in 1988.
On top of that it kicked harder and whipped th barrel much more than my Rem 600 308.
And that old rifle can shoot a three shot sub moa group.