Hello, I just joined the forum day before yesterday with a question on binoculars, now I'd be interested in your input on what caliber I should pick for Rem 700 long action project. First I hunt every thing from Antelope to Elk and everywhere from dense woods to open praire here in Montana.

I currently have and use the following rifles:

1) A 1952 Savage model 99 in 300 Savage with open sights.
2) My first rifle a Rem Model 700 BDL in .270 with a Leupold 3x9 scope. I bought this gun in 1966 when I was in 11th grade.
3) A Kimber Model 89BGR also .270 with Kimber rings and a B&L Elite 3000 3x9 scope.
4) Finally a Tom Burgess custom 7mm Rem. Mag built on a Mauser 98 action, Al Beisen stock and Apex barrell. this gun was built in 1964 and sports a B&L Balvar 2.5 x 8 scope on and adjustable Beuhler mount. This is my favorite gun and scope and other than the deep woods hunting, is my "go to" hunting rifle.

Now about ten years ago I bought a Fajen fancy walnut stock for my old Remington .270. I finished it with Pilkington stock oil, checkered it and mounted Neidner checkered steel butt plate and pistol end cap. I shot the rifle that way for a few years then put it back in the original stock for nostalgic reasons. Truthfully this is the one gun I never shoot as I'll use the Kimber if I need a .270.

Now my problem is having three rifles all very close to each other ballistically. And since I have a nice custom stock ready to go for a long action BDL I have an opportunity to build a complimentary rifle.

I have been leaning toward a .257 Roberts as that was my Dad's first hunting rifle. I'd rather have the moderate Roberts over a hotter 25-06. This would be a good Eastern Montana deer-antelope rifle. Any smaller caliber would work better with a short action.

Or I could go 30-06 or .338-06 for elk, but my 7mm rem mag works fine there already. Any other ideas? I look forward to your comments.

Well, keep a .270, and buy a .338 of your liking: .338 Federal, .338-06, or the ol' reliable .338WM (if you can take the recoil). More than likely you will end-up using one of the first two .338's for all of your hunting.

But, everyone should always have a .30-06 in a rifle battery. Besides, you can always go up and back to it in caliber (.338-06, and back to .30-06) with no modification to the action except for a .338-06 barrel.

i say the 257 Rob because of dad.....

1

35 Whelen!

You mentioned the 257 Roberts yourself so thats on your mind. If I understand that the stock has and will retail a steel buttplate then you may have made a good choice.

Most 6.5mm's come with faster twists and longer bullets than the 257R. One such cartridge is the 6.5X55.

You have some mountains nearby!

Savage, we do have mountains near. I am about 20 miles as the crow flies from the Bob Marshall Wilderness area, 45 miles from Glacier National Park (hence my call name), about 45 minutes from one of my favorite whitetail areas down the Swan Valley.

You can pretty much find excellent big game hunting in any direction, and great duck hunting (my favorite) five minutes away.

I take it you like Savage 99s. The Savage 99 I have was inherited from my Father in Law and I have shot some pretty nice bucks with it, open sights and all. Can you recommend a good peep sight for it, one that won't require extra holes being drilled? I was thinking about that Marbles post type peep sight.

You're right about the steel butt plate and I feel like I have Elk covered with my 7mm rem mag, at least it's always worked for me up till now, so thats why I was thinking smaller for Antelope. And my Dad alway raved about the .257 but the 6.5x55 sounds interesting. If the stock was inletted for a short action I would probably go with a 7mm-08 or .308.

Alas I am primarily just a hunter with my two 99f's in 358. My screen name Savage_99 means that I like rare beef at 99F.

There is an excellent section here at 24hr, the Savage Collectors, or whatever its called. They can help you with anything to do with 99's however those 99's take a scope so easy. Consider having scope mounts put on it.

Nor am I a .25" guy. Check that the standard 1-10" Roberts twist is fast enough for the longest modern bullets in that caliber. Get the best twist for the best bullets. Your in BIG game country.

Mine would be the odd-ball choice... 9.3X62... Awesome Elk and anything else medicine... Second choice would be something in 6.5 cal..

MM

+1 on the 35 Whelen although I like the 9.3x62 as well. The Whelen is such a classic western U.S. caliber and would be a change of pace from your other rifles. It will handle any big game found out here - elk, black bear, moose.

Does it need a recoil pad as I really want to stick with the Neidner butt plate. I shoot my 7mm Rem Mag Mauser, 160 gr Nosler partitions without a pad, but it's a pretty heavy rifle.

Also since all my spare time is spent dog training I don't reload anymore so off the shelf cartridges would be better. Not that I couldn't take an evening off to load up some cartridges, I just don't make a big deal out of working up loads like I used to.

My pre64 M70 with a 35 whelen bbl has original stock with HARD plastic butt. No problem. You won't need to change the Neidner.

Call me a wimp but I had a 35 Whelen with a hard plastic butt plate and wouldn't call it fun. Also had a 6.5x55 with no recoil pad and had a ball shooting it.

The bad news is that you don't need another rifle for what you've said you're hunting.

The good news is, you can have another anyway.

For an 'all rounder', your best bet is likely the .30-06. You didn't mention any dangerous game, but you still might wanna go with the .338-06, just for something a bit different. With several .270's I'm not sure why you'd wanna go with a .257 Roberts, other than nostalgia as you said. If you're thinking of going on the light side, you could consider the .250 Savage.

I would stick with the Roberts idea. IMO, that rid would have lots of class... A second choice would be the 7X57. However, both are a little short on factory loadings...

Find a Model 700 Mountain Rifle in .257 Roberts to match your .270, or a Ruger 77.
Since you like iron sights, look for an older 77, or add the sights. You have all the elk rifles you need. Go down the power chain.

How about another Savage 99 in .250-3000?

Gotta agree with Paul. Because of Dad is reason enough. My dad used a Savage 99 250-3000 that belonged to his dad. It's mine now, as is a 700 Classic and Dakota 76 in the same caliber. Because of dad is probably the ultimate reason, IMHO, to have a rifle in a particular caliber or configuration. Do the Bob.

I say .257 because I did the math and know that you will enjoy shooting a milder kicking rifle. I am 54 in December so I feel OK about addressing This Issue!

Bob

Thanks all for the great input. I glad I'm not the only guy who's decisions can be affected by emotion. My Dad is 84 now and due to lung issues, hasn't been able to hunt for about ten years. The .257 he had was Mod 70 his dad bought for him before the war. Unfortunately it and all his other guns were destroyed when my grandparents ranch house burned down in 1957.

And Gibbs you're right a lighter, milder shooting rifle will be welcome when I hunt areas where Elk are out of the question. I used to get all hung up a more velocity and comparing cartridges based on an inch less fall at 300 yards, now I know that what matters most is how well you shoot that partiqular rifle in real hunting situations.

You have flat shootin' covered with the 270 and 7MAG. Might be time for a hard hitting medium, say, a 9.3x66Sako. Not everyone has one yet and it will drive a 250gr bullet 2750fps (factory load). Dies are about 4-5 times the price of regular dies and brass is around $32 for a box of 20, which is more than bulk brass but these are ready to load. I've used a hot loaded 35Whelen for years and can not say i have seen more one shot knock downs with any other caliber. Z-Hat has all the reload stuff for it.

Anyone with a Biesen/Burgess Mauser in 7 RM has to look hard for a reason to get anything else....I don't have to see it to know it's a beauty.Reading the posts,looks like the Roberts is gonna win here. Maybe worth considering just buying a Ruger Hawkeye. If I were in a lather for a Roberts, that's what I'd look at..

The 257Bob or a 7x57.

I find nostalgia don't get shot much.

John,

While logic can be a strong motivator, Emotion will win over it every time. Practical ballistics favors the 6.5x55, but It sounds to me like your heart is with the .257....

If it were me, I'd go with a medium bore. (8mm-.375) But then I'm a medium bore slut.

My best advice it to follow your heart. Go with the .257... In the long run, you'll be glad you did!

Grasshopper

I hunt with a .257 Ackley and a 6.5 x 47 Lapua and feel that is it more than enough for any deer I'll hunt.



Michael

Bobin NH,
You're right about the Burgess 7mm RM, it is a beautiful gun, and though my other two bolt actions shoot slightly smaller groups, it's the one rifle I have total confidence in. Besides being a gunsmithing work of art with nicely figured English Walnut stock,super clean metal work without any ornamentation and a classic old B&L Balvar 2.5 x 8 scope, it just comes up and hits whatever I am shooting at. Right from the very first shot it has boosted my confidence.

The only reason I am thinking about another rifle is because I have a really nice fancy walnut stock all checkered and finished for a Model 700 long action just sitting in my gun cabinet. So I thought for not too much money I could find an old 700 long action, re-blue it if necessary, add a Pac-Nor barrell in a caliber that suites, mount a Leopold 2 x 8 x 36 scope and there you go.

The reality to my hunting is that I could, and over some seasons have, just used the Burgess 7mm RM for everything from Antelope to Elk, Eastern Montana open praire country, NW Montana woods or SW Montana high country. And I believe there is someting to be said for just using that "old reliable" for everything because you and the rifle become "one" and hence more one shot kills. But the other side of the equation is that rifles are fun to collect and use.

So we try to justify more gun ownership by creating arbitrary categories for special hunting situations. Even though I know I am more effective with one of my bolt action scoped rifles, I grab the old open sighted Savage 99 for a walk in the woods. If I'm hunting Elk I carry the Burgess mauser, which will also work fine if a giant Whitetail happens to present himself. A lot of time I carry my .270 hunting deer but with a 150 grain BT I wouldn't hesitate on an Elk should the oppurtunity arise.

That leaves Eastern Montana Antelope and Mule deer hunting where the .270 and 7mm mag are fine, even perfect cartridges for the situation, but also an area where a relative flat shooting lighter fifle would be nice to carry and shoot. So rather than trying to pick the perfect rifle for the situation I am trying to find the perfect sitation for my Rem 700 Long action. If was a short action or a magnum it would be a much easier choice.

I guess I am torn between the .257 which I would use for Antelope or a .338-06 which I would carry for Elk. The reason I lean toward the .257 is because I love the Burgess 7mm mag so much for Elk.

Thanks for all of your replys, sometimes you have to go through this kind of exercise to clarify what was in your mind all along.

We certainly DO create arbitrary categories- but haven't you heard? We don't talk about that so's our wives don't find out that all we really need is a 30-06! Shh!

I like your idea of the .257 Roberts. Neat caliber. Me personally, I'd go 338-06 or better yet, .35 Whelen.

Are you going to install the P-N barrel yourself?

-jeff

No, my buddy Pete Forthhoffer is a great gunsmith and knife maker, he'll do the work and try to talk me into a 25-06.

John

Count me in the .257 Bob camp. Dad, is reason enough.

Add to that, the fact that the .257 "speaks" to you.....

Get the Roberts.

The .35 Whelen and .338-06 are both good choices, but you have two nice rifles that about cover them. You might do some checking on the new .375 Ruger. Good luck.

George

The 25-06 is a kitten, a magnum that ain't, and is equally spectacular with a 75 grn v-max or 100 grn tsx.
While you might not be able to eat right up to the hole, she recoils so light, you can watch the whole show.

If you hunt the Bob Marshall then a confrontation witha grizz could be a problem right? I deceided on one gun for that once in a lifetime money shot! Long or short range brush or the prairie. Big or little. 300wm

I got to say I have been fond of the 257 bobby for years and just a short time ago bought one. 100 rounds later I am a drooling teenager again. except now I got forty years experience as a teen.

To say I love it is an understatement
Randy

Why would you feel that anyone here has a better opinion than your own opinion? If you search for the Rifle/caliber that is prefect for you on this forum, you�ll be forever lost.

I've gone through 100+ now and still ain't got the answer. But a couple come close.......

Make up your own mind, the choice you make is OK by me.

Listen to your gunsmith, my friend, listen to your gunsmith!

It's always a plus when he's building what he suggested - he'll be that much more motivated for it to be perfect...plus, the 25-06 is a mighty fine cartridge!

DJ

Glacier: Believe me, I understand the illness.Rifles are too much fun to only own one or two, even if those are the ones you reach for all the time.Seems kind of pointless to build another elk rifle.The Roberts is likely the best choice, or the 25/06.

Not surprised at the success with the 7mag.Biesen built rifles to hunt, and in his day, there was not a better metal man than Burgess...

I'd either go up to a 9.3x62 or stick with a 257 or 250-3000.

Either way you go you will be a winner.

Ed

Mick,

You're right it is my own decision. It was just kind of fun putting it out there for everyone's input. I also thought I might get some new ideas such as the .338-06 which I hadn't considered. Actually I had this same discussion with my Dad prior to signing up here, and it came down to .257 or 30-06 with the tilt going to the .257. I forgot to mention that I don't have a varmit rifle, and we thought the .257 could perform double duty there.

We just had to put my Dad in an assisted living facility last month so I'm kind of grasping at any kind of connection, even an abstract one like using the same cartridge. I'm flying down to Denver to see him in a few days, I'm going to print out this thread to take with me, he'll get a kick out of it.

Now, what is my best sourse for finding a Rem. Mod 700 BDL LA, right hand. The stock was inletted and glass-bedded for my 1966-67 vintage, serial #296,xxx. Can I use any year action, or did Remington make changes along the way that would prevent a newer action from fitting into my stock?

The problem with using a .338 Win. on elk is that you will never use anything else once you use it...A 300 gr. Woodleigh at 2450 FPS for the black timber and a 210 Nosler at 3000 FPS for open country. My gun shoots the 210 3" high at 100 and the 300 dead on at 100. can't get any better than that. I also like the 375 H&H with 300 gr. bullets..These big bores bloodshot less meat on elk and deer than a .270 or its ilk, and I like that. the big guns also leave a blood trail a blind man can follow. The also will dump a big bull on his nose it you have to shoot him up the keyster...

Ray,
Are you talking the .338 Win Mag vs the .338-06? Is the Remington 700 long action the same regardless of magnum or standard cartridge? I thought I had to go with a standard cartridge because my stock is inleted for my current .270.

Also, though the .338 win mag may be the perfect Elk cartridge, I have had good luck with my 7mm mag, haven't lost an Elk yet. But I have to admit there has been occasion where it took more than one shot to anchor it down right there. One the other hand I have a one shot kill on a much larger bull Moose.

I'm pretty sure that there's no such thing as a "magnum" M700 action. The differences between say a 30-06 and .338 Win mag in a M700 are in the bolt fact and feed rails/ramp... but not the action itself.

That sound right, good peoples of the Campfire?

-jeff

... as to your question of whether any changes were made, I would expect that they sort of standardized on certain dimensions when they went to CNC machinery. I don't know what that was. Prior to that I think there was a little more variation from piece to piece.

Not enough to matter in a stock, I don't think, especially since you'd be bedding it anyway.

-jeff

I would go with a 6.5-06 ,or a 280AI or a 257 roberts AI.or a 458 Win. Hell I can`t decide for myself,much less you!!!!!