Kimber 84M Montana 308 Win with Leupold Vari-X III 2.5-8x36, Federal Premium Vital Shok 165-grain Sierra GameKing BTSP factory loads, 3 consecutive shots at one target, approximately 170 yards away, and a group that measures about a hair over 1.25". What you think.........is she a "keeper" for big game hunting purposes?

Yup! Keep it & use it. Good luck. Bear in Fairbanks

Were the first two the top holes, that's how mine shoots. Usually two very close and the third somewhere near by.

Righto... Mine shoots like that a fair amount. Two that are very close, and the third that opens things up a bit. Hey, as a matter of fact, I had another group this morning (3-shot at 100 yards) where the first two holes were practically one single 308 diameter hole and the other was slightly less than an inch away. I had to look very hard at the first two to make sure I was really looking at one hole that two bullets passed through. The second shot was literally almost identically right through the hole of the first shot. I saw the same thing happen a few weeks ago, too, when I was shooting a few groups with 165-grain TSX's. The scary part is that I am 100% confident that my groups could be even tighter - that is, the Kimber could make them even tighter - if I personally could hold and shoot well enough to make it happen. I would love to see what it would do, also, if I could ever find the time to get out to a real range that doesn't have rickety plywood benches that shift around under the slightest pressure. I need to find a good concrete bench somewhere; either that, or do like a few on here have mentioned and try going prone to see what happens.

dshoe, good on ya. My Kimber MT 308 too shoots like a dream with the handloads I've run in it. I only shot it once at 250 yards and the group was 1.75"... not bad for such a light gun!

EXACT same setup here. Tis grand.
Please take it hunting now.

WILL YOU GUYS STOP LOVING YOUR .308 MONTANA'S SO MUCH! YOU'RE MAKING IT AWFULLY HARD NOT TO BUY ONE OVER HERE!

Thank you.

-jeff

A 308 or 7-08 in a Montana has my name on it...
Just got to decide on which caliber.
(OH THE HORROR!)
grin

I'd be selling off a nice 7-08 Mountain Rifle to finance it, and also to stick to my "no net increase in guns dammit!!!" plan.

I too would be somewhat torn between the 7-08 and .308, but I'd probably lean towards the .308. I killed a bunch of deer with 7-08 and ended up feeling like, at least with the bullets I used (150-gn NP's) I wasn't getting the kind of dyin' that I'd prefer to see. As Brad has said, the LR (and presumably B&C) reticle matches up well with .308 so really, it comes down to recoil I guess. .308 will have a bit more.

Anyway if I get a Kimber .308 my daughter will most likely be using it anyway mostly... that 7-08 MR is earmarked for her use...

-jeff

I will be selling a Kimber 84M classic in 308 to pay for the Montana, so I 'feel your pain' so to speak, Jeff!

I like the 308, but I like some of the bullets available in 0.284" diameter.
I suppose it is a moot point, either one with good shot placement will kill stuff deader than a doornail...

This one really sucks.

http://attainkarma.com/scotts/montan2_sk.jpg

Mines on order and I am hoping to have it soon. Yippee sure glad to hear about the postives and not the negatives.

That one does suck!

It's the anemic recoil factor of 35 that really turns your stomach, isn't it?

Ya know 340, a fellow in the gun industry, who is in a phenomenal position to know, told me 308's consistently out-shoot 7-08's in their factory rifles. He told me 7-08 tubes constantly give them fits in both Production and Custom Shop rifles (the other equally maddening chambering he mentioned was the 6.5x55).

Between my own 7-08 experience and other friends vs. our collective 308 experience we've found it to be true. Why that would be so I can't say.

Obviously others MMV and I'm certain many will howl at the above, but the 308 is consistently the easiest and most eager to please round I've worked with over the years.

Dang it Brad, you aren't making this any easier...


I did not know about the 7-08 accuracy issues, that is interesting.

I do know that my other Kimber in 308 shoots very nicely, is easy to load for, and the recoil is next to zilch.

Decisions, decisions...

Sheesh, I guess I need to change my alias from '340boy' to '223boy' or something...

Back before I bought mine, I was having somewhat of a tough time myself trying to decide between these two calibers. I went with the 308 for various reasons. I am glad I did, too.

Well... not to start anything... but I think if a guy has any thoughts at all about bear and elk and so on with such a rifle, the choice is clear- .308. Further I think all else equal the .308 will be a superior killer of deer over the 7mm-08.

I've killed, I think, 7 deer with 7mm-08; it works fine. I think .308 would work one notch finer.

Nobody even interested in 338 Fed, huh?

-jeff

Nope

As to the 7-08 vs 308... what one will do the other will do equally well IMO. I happen to have had a lot of years with the 308 and it's been an easy round to work with whereas the one and only 7-08 I had was a PIA.

Sorta made it a simple choice for me and I definitely wasn't disappointed by the Kimber 308... again.

I am thinking a sort of 'bring it anywhere' rifle, I would imagine in my neck of the woods for mule deer and black bear-could do for elk as well, depending on how I like the rifle.

I guess a 308 would work just fine, just wish I could get more than 2650 out of a 165gr partition in a 22" tube-but that is another story.

Dang... never had one that slow. What's your load?

Mine "should" run 165's around 2,780. 150 TSX's go 2,880 and in the past I've found most 165's will run around 100 fps behind the 150's so that's why I'm tinkin 2,780.

In factory loads, the Federal HE 165 TB's go 2,880 in the Kimber... that's screamin!

Brad,
I have been running 43.5grains of RL15, WW brass, Fed210M primers.
The accuracy is good, ES is low over my Oehler.
I am (I think) one half grain below Nosler's book max?

Maybe I should try varget?

You're way low IMO.

Hodgdon #26 lists 165's with a max load of RL15 as 45.0 gr's for a velocity of 2,763 and a CUP of 49,500. That's what I run.

I think the Nosler manual SUCKS... no pressure data. You sort of have to take their "word" for the loads and yet they often don't jive with manuals that give pressure data.

Then there's Alliant themselves:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...ht=165&shellid=1079&bulletid=293

Ah!
Interesting, thanks for that info.
I don't see any pressure signs with my current load and the brass seems to last forever.
That would be great if I could get 2750 or so- think I am going to do some load development this winter!

Nosler book does call out 3000 fps with 150's and Varget, in a .308... just noticed that a minute ago killin' time out in the studio while the computer was earning me some $$ <G>.

-jeff

anyone hazard a guess regards the relative accuracy of the 338 Federal vs the 308? I was thinking the 308 Kimber with heavier bullets due to the 1-12 twist might not shoot as well as the 338 with 210's.

Yeah, that's just the other side of the same problematic Nosler coin IMO.

3,000 fps with a 150 via 48.5 gr's Varget is a bit irresponsible to print IMO.

Funny, Hodgdon only gives 47.0 gr's Varget for 2,937 / 50,300 CUP from a 24" bbl.

Nosler's book is at best decent toilet-side reading IMO.

Nosler's data has always given me pretty slow numbers in my 270win as well, but again, we are talking about a 22" barrel.

I guess I gotta do some experimenting this winter... poor me

That little .308 case sure is a powerhouse though. Pretty astounding. A modern marvel and all that.

What book do you like, Brad? I just sort of look at all the books I have, plus any pertinant manufacturer's website info, scratch my head a little, and then do my best not to blow my damnfool self up! It's AMAZING how much difference there can be between the various books.

-jeff

[quote=dshoeRighto... Mine shoots like that a fair amount. Two that are very close, and the third that opens things up a bit. Hey, as a matter of fact, I had another group this morning (3-shot at 100 yards) where the first two holes were practically one single 308 diameter hole and the other was slightly less than an inch away. I had to look very hard at the first two to make sure I was really looking at one hole that two bullets passed through. The second shot was literally almost identically right through the hole of the first shot. I saw the same thing happen a few weeks ago, too, when I was shooting a few groups with 165-grain TSX's. [/quote]

Yeah these Kimbers are freakin junk. I just started reloading and here's a 3 shot group with my handloads. 300 WSM 168 TSX 65g of H4350. I havent even messed with my OTL experiments I plan on yet and for an average of 3080 ish I am pretty happy. I was looking through the spotter thinking where the hell did my second shot go?

I really like the Hodgdon Manual and their supplement that they print each year because they include pressure data. Also, Alliant's own web-data is good.

I have ZERO use for something that doesn't print pressures with each load...

I should get me one of those big Hodgon books. I use the mini-manuals and their website...

I must confess that I am willing to fly by the seat of my pants to some degree- putting together whatever the various books are saying, plus what my chrono is saying, plus most importantly what my rifle is telling me is happening. That said, I don't routinely load up at max unless there's a pretty good reason (some would say there's never a reason, but I don't agree with that).

-jeff

my 300WSM classic gives this exact group with 180 AB's over RL19!

has anyone shot 180's out of their kimber 308 with sucess, help me out fellas I am trying to decide between the mundane 308 and the new and wonderful beyond all things 338 federal. Like 340boy I have to sell a couple of guns to get there but they are in the process of leaving.

Jimmy,
I have not shot any 180s out of my 308.
I wish I knew more about the 338Fed, but alas, I do not...

Yup,The Deer around here don`t give me any respect since I switched from 308 to 7mm -08.Why the last two I shot had the audacity to twitch 3 times instead of 2 after I killed them!!!

I've toyed with the idea of getting a Kimber as my northern BC "big bear & moose" gun. It does have the much vaunted CRF feed.

But, I'm worried about quality control.

Once a gun makes it to Canada - we're stuck with it. It won't be going back for repairs. If it has something like a bad barrel - as in my Remington Ti - you have to live with it - or get it replaced with a new tube, at your own cost - in Canada.

I thought for about the same amount of money a Sako might be the safer bet. I'd bet on the Sako 85 to be more accurate too due to the fact Sako GUARANTEES the rifle will put 5 shots into an inch at 100 metres.

What are your thoughts on Kimber quality control compared to Sako?

If you were buying a rifle you couldn't return - what would you buy?

340, I do have the Montana in 338 Federal. I bought it because I could see that I was going to get impressive #s with it because I have one of the first Tikka T3s in that same caliber. When factory 180 Accubinds gave me 2730fps I knew things could cook. Even though thats 100fps slower than claimed it is still faster than any standard 30-06 loads with 180s that I've chrono'd. I'm currently shooting 185TSXs at 2870fps and it really gets under some guys hides. They expect it to be slower than the 308Win(which I also have in a Montana-just not as exciting). I think most of the same naysayers would be in the same school of guys that hated the 308 back 50 yrs ago when it was being touted as "better than an '06". Now they're all on board the 308Win,284Win,358Win train. Be the gutsy dude you were meant to be. Don't buy just cuz someone on the net will approve of your choice and give you one of them lame smiley faces. Crunch on your own numbers and make your choice. That said, the 308 is fine and easy to load for--no problems.

338,
How do those TSXs shoot for you, and I agree 2870 out of a 185 is nothing to sneeze at...

Brian,
I have had a fair amount of Kimbers(1911s, 22LR, and various centerfires-
I just had to send my 325WSM Montana into Kimber because of a cracked stock.
I imagine they will take care of it, but if I could not send it in to them, I would be in trouble!

I have no personal experience with the Sako's but I like what I see and hear about them.

1.25" at 100yds. Factory 210 NosParts at 2505fps.,Factory 200 Fusions at 2699fps (faster than advertised!),Factory 185TSXs at 2640fps and Factory 180 Accubinds at 2730. Yes, I went to the expense and bought at least two boxes of each and played around alot. However, I've found 308 W-W cases reform with one easy pass and hold a good bit more powder with a drop tube.

Sounds good to me, 338.
Just curious, but what did you go with on a scope and rings/mounts?

I like the idea of a light, tough, synthetic/stainless steel rifle.

That is why I am going to buy another Montana even though my 325 is at the 'shop' for repairs...

What are you burning for a powder and a charge to get to that kind of speed with a 185?

Thx

Dober

Yes that is a fine Kimber. I've never bought into the 'Kimber is junk' camp. My hunting partner has hunted for 3 seasons now with one in 308 and I've been jealous every time I see him packing in hand and my 35Wh is strapped to my shoulder. No wonder he accounts for more game than me. I now carry a Montana in 338 Fed. Have one in 308 but haven't hunted with it yet. I think everyone should get one (or two).

340, Zeiss Conquest 3x9x40 in Talley low 1pc mounts. Bolt rubs the rubber eyepiece just a paper thickness. I'd go with medium next time. Scope looks out of proportion to the gun but it's oh so bright compared to my 3x9 Leupold Compact that I just can't bear the thought of removing it. Gun weighs 6#1.4oz just like that weighed on a postal scale. Would easily be under 6# with diff scope.

Dober, H4895, 50.0gr, W-W cases,Fed 215 primers.

Wow, just over 6 lbs even with a Conquest, I can like that...

I have a Leupy compact 3-9X, I hate it, eye relief sucks, brightness sucks...

I am going to go with a fixed 6X Leupy on my next Montana, with Talley Lightweights, of course...

The Kimber website sure makes them sound appealing! I love the look of those Montana's.

And five in the magazine, in both the long action and the magnums - um um good!

Here's a lousy pic of the 308 with 2-7.

The Montana just looks sweet!

Here is a picture of mine, before I had to send it back to Kimber...

[img][IMG]http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p79/timdbrose/IMG_0408.jpg[/img][/img]

Brad,
Is that 2-7 a VXII?
Also like those Talleys in the natural metal look.

Brad-Where did you get Talleys in silver? They told me black only. Those look good.

VXII 2-7 LR.

Gary bead blasted them to silver for me.

Actually, on further investigation, I see Kimber lists it's long magnum Montana's as having a magazine capacity of FOUR.

I see they list their 325WSM magazine as FIVE, in contrast to all the other WSM cartridges that are supposed to hold THREE - and with all other weights and rifle measurements being identical to the other WSM's - so, I'd bet that is a mis-print on Kimber's website.

Darn it.

I do KNOW that the Sako holds FIVE - even in .375 H&H - and in the synthetic stainless version, their rifles in the bigger cartridges weigh basically the same as Kimber Montanas.

I cannot get 5 into my 325 Montana!
3 rounds in the belly, max.

I haven't tried any 180's out of mine, yet. I probably won't, either. The 165's will do everything I'm going to need them to do for a long time to come. With that, I'm certainly going to stick with the 165-grain Sierra GameKing loads from Federal.

Well, I can tell you my thoughts on question one above. My little 84M Montana is more or less flawless from the visual quality control perspective. I mean there is absolutely nothing to not like about it or the way it has been assembled. I cannot say the same for a new Sako 85 I recently looked at a SW in Nevada. I posted about it in another thread a week or so ago. Long story short, a couple of pits in the metal work and the stock was definitely not on par with that of the Montana.

As far as question two is concerned, that is a bit harder to determine; especially since I am currently thinking very seriously about taking a chance on a new Sako 85 Hunter. FWIW, the one I mentioned that I looked at over in Nevada was the SS flavor.

Yeah, 3 rounds in the belly of my .325 Montana, four total.

But that's not real important to me. I can't even imagine getting more than four shots at a head of game anyway. Only time I've shot more than twice was to kill two bucks in about 5 seconds, a spike and a big fork. The fork was coming right towards me after being shot once, all confused and wobbly, but only about 20 feet away when I shot again.

Problem with Kimbers is- you can't own just one! I can't/won't buy one without selling something buuuut... I cannot think of a reason that my M700 MR shouldn't be sold for another Montana in .308 (or 338 Fed just to be a PITA gadfly).

It may indeed be true that .308 and 7-08 kill equally well; I wouldn't know. I know that in my case, due to the circumstances in which I kill deer, I put a premium on a bigger hole and more likelyhood of a DRT deer. To my perhaps Neanderthal way of thinking, a 150-gn 30-cal bullet at 2900 is probably gonna make a bigger hole, if nothing else, than a 140-gn 7mm bullet at 2850 fps. If I'm wrong then so be it, but that's what would steer me to the .308- that and the possibility of using 180's for up close serious penetration if need be.

But what do I know- my experience is more or less solely based on the one type of hunting I've done enough of to be pretty good at, which is blacktail, in the jungle, in the RAIN.... and indeed it's led me to the .358 and really big holes. So there. <g>. There's whole worlds of hunting I've yet to experience and I value hearing just about every word you guys type! Thank you for that.

-jeff

Here's a pic of mine. By the way, I still haven't figured out how to post pics directly in the body of a message, rather than as an attachment (like this one). Would anyone mind sharing their knowledge on the process? Thanks...

Dshoe.. PM sent..

-jeff

Kimber has me hook line and sinker! Wanting a 338 fed and either a 260 or a 7-08!! I own a 300wsm.

260Rem sounds tempting doesn't it?

Dshoe, upload your photo to Photobucket and then copy the img file in the 3 types of file below the image and paste into the body of your post.

Normally Jeff, I'd agree with you - magazine capacity is probably over-rated in much of the U.S.

But in Alaska, and B.C hunting conditions are probably much more dangerous for locals - than hunting on guided hunts in Africa - even for dangerous game.

Think about it, no Professional Hunter watching your back, no trackers - just you and the wilderness.

Having stood over a moose I was cutting up - and being circled by four large and fairly agressive bears in B.C.s far north for the better part of an hour, I can assure you - five in the magazine and one in the barrel - felt much better than the lesser alternative.

I never bought into the "every Kimber is a POS camp". I think the problems lie more with the loonies than with Kimber. If I were to plunk down the dough for one it would most certainly be the 338 Fed Montana hands down. I like what bigger bullets do to game and I can't be convinced that a 7mm-08 or a 308 would be superior to a 338 Fed in any way, shape, or form. Game your shooting at just don't know a darn thing about velocity. However, when shot with a larger bullet there is a noticable difference in their reaction which gives me the warm and fuzzies. Of course a Kimber in a .358 Win would be perfection at it's finest, but the 338 Fed would do me nicely too. I've been fighting the urge to buy one for awhile but slowly giving in.

but the 338 Fed would do me nicely too. I've been fighting the urge to buy one for awhile but slowly giving in.[/quote]

+1

I think I'm going to need theropy.

Having stood over a moose I was cutting up - and being circled by four large and fairly agressive bears in B.C.s far north for the better part of an hour, I can assure you - five in the magazine and one in the barrel - felt much better than the lesser alternative.

This is just one reason I actually miss my featherweight! Someday I'll own another.

+537,000,000

That would be very cool. I already have a .358 but I hope for the rest of ya'll they chamber that. Hmmm... maybe we should email them?

Laying in bed thinking about it last night... I have a .358 Model 7, that I absolutely love, so in reality, all that a 338 Fed Montana would do is confuse me. So I'd be leaning more towards 308. Additionally, since the rifle I'd be selling to get it is sort of earmarked for my daughter, maybe a 7mm-08 or even 260 makes more sense! I think I could make some low-recoil .308 loads that would kick about the same as low-recoil 7mm-08 loads, though.

Very confused. That means "do nothing".

-jeff

I love my Kimber 84s, both the .308 and 7mm-08 Montana. Usually when the barrel warms up with the first two shots, my third is a bit out, also. But they shoot well, and I love Kimber rifles.

And if you need a 3rd shot you got bigger problems, unless you just like lobbing lead down range at running deer! <grins>

Hey, Savage, thanks for posting the pic for me! Looks good...

Or, maybe you're hunting in Montana and have 3 lope tags.....

Just a thought.

For me if a gun won't group 3 I am not a happy camper. Somewhere somehow there is an issue.

Dober

Didn' think about cull hunts Dober. All I am saying is that if a gun will consistently put 2 shots in one hole and then send a flyer an inch away it aint no worse than a cloverleaf .75" group to me. Some of our demands get a bit crazy. If the gun is grouping all over in 2" then theres damn sure cause for concern, especially if you payed over a G for it.

338Federal or others: I'm still waiting for my Kimber 84 Montana in .338Fed to arrive. Do you find yours barrel light regarding holding steady for offhand shooting? I had a classic in .308 that had some problems that Kimber addressed with a new barrel, sold it to a frind who knew about it, but likes a challenge!!! Never got to shoot it that much, but did wish it had a little more upfront weight. They just look so nice and others have had good luck with them so I decided to take another chance.

Battue