The Winchester Coyote thread got me to wandering. What is the worst grouping rifle you have ever had?

Mine was a Savage 340 (I think) in .222. Bought it used and I think the best it ever did was about 3" 3 shot groups at 100. It averaged closer to 4". That was before I handloaded and before I would do any bedding or such. I've often thought I'd like to have it back just to see how good I could make it. Back then all I knew was to try a different scope and different ammo. Both scopes I tried on it were el cheapos but they did allright on other rifles.

Dave.

That first gen Browning A-Bolt I just dumped.

Winchester Mod 70 Stainless in 338 WM I bought new in '03. Winchesters quality control must have been off the day they turned that thing out.
Groups don't describe what that thing did, pattern might be closer. A new stock and $800 gunsmiithing fixed it.
Now it's one of my best shooters but I seldom use it. Found something I like better.

Kimber Montana, 270WSM
A three inch group gun on a good day.
The factory would do nothing, so I dumped it.

Savage Striker in .243 with the adjustable muzzle tamer. It would shoot 3"-4" groups at 25 yards with all ammo.

About 10 years ago I bought a Kimber in 30-06 (cant remember the model). factory ammo and reloads, on a good day was a 6"group. I loaned it to a buddy who was great at reloading and he had it for 8months and gave it back. damn thing wouldnt shoot.

Wish I woulda kept it did a rebarrel or restock job but I wasnt to happy. Between 3 different scopes and god knows how much powder I bought, I gave up.

Hmm, if I recall right it was a Accumark in 30/378, what a lesson in frustration!

Retubed it, re-bedded it and then it shot, also gave the good deal accubrake a toss into the Mo. River....

Dober

can I say a SS Ruger Mini 14 with a 15 inch "group" the thing would not hit a 55 gallon drum at 200 yards.

Ruger M77 MK II in 6.5x55. I tried everything 'cept a new barrel.

Frickin' tomato stake.

Another one I had that I thought was hopeless was a Ruger Compact in 308. I tried everything to improve it and nothing worked.
Then my 12 year old Grandson needed a rifle for his first Elk hunt so I cooked up some mild 130 gr loads. It liked the lighter bullets and came right in. Not a tack driver, but acceptable.

Savage model 110 chambered for 300 Win. Mag. What a piece of crap.

Win Mod 70 264WM that thing wont hold 12" at 100 yards.. still need to fix it. also, when you put one in the mag and cycle the bolt it launches the round out about 4 feet from the rifle. Kind of hard to use as a hunting rifle when you can't load it!

should clarify. when you push the bolt forward it launches the round. not when you pull it back though it does that reliably.

A custom Remington in 35 Whelen Improved. It couldn't hit the broadside of a bear at 30 yards...........

blow me!


I need to take that one out and shoot it! might could be the scope is shot! it is a burris!

Yeah but it was hell on.......never mind.

Kimber .260 started with close to 6" at 100 regardless of ammo, cut to sub moa after lots of brainpower was burned up.

Best accuracy every was a new Tikka in .270, under 1/2moa with remington facory loads. Fusion factory loads are closer to 3/8".

Don't start that crap again! grins

Though in my defense, it was a very old tree!

Paul, did you have a tag for that tree?

Also in your defense, if the tree hadn't been there you would have hit the dirt bank behind it......

Worst I ever had was a Ruger Mini Ranch rifle. Not terrible at 2-3" at 100 but bad enough to sell cheap. I did spend a lot of time and components to get to that 2-3".

My stainless mini-14 used to be a good honest 11/2 in three shot rifle and went right to a 12 in rifle when it was warm.

I got it bedded, the trigger done, barrel shortened and a muzzle brake added. Now it is a 1" rifle for three shots and goes to 3"" only when it is really hot. To me that is a keeper.

it was a victim of road rage!

LOL

Paul,
I was trying to behave as best I could.

likely story!

T/C Black powder gun, wouldn't print first shot from a clean barrel on a 3' target at 50 yards, put the next 2 in a bout a foot, and then had to re-clean.
Utterly useless for any shooting purpose.
Maybe I should have tried bird shot?

Dang, I've been blessed. I have never had anything shoot outside 1.5" at 100yds.

My Whelen shoots .8" or so when I do my part. Maybe I should punch it AI...

Mini 14 is the only truly inaccurate rifle I've ever had.

My Model 7 LSS in 7-08 was capable of some shenanigans when I first got it. It was FUBAR. But not NEARLY as fubar as that mini-14.

-jeff

I have had good luck as well most of my guns shoot well..
my 30-06 is picky on ammo, but will then send it into an inch when i get the right ammo ( remington 700 bdl mtn lss)

Had a 7 mag that i could not get under 1 1/2 no matter that hand load. I tried accubonds, TSX, BT's and sierras!

I had a 257 weatherby mag custom on a douglas XX air guage barrel that could be out shot by a 12 gauge for groups at 100 yards,pulled the barrel and had a douglas XX 25-06 barrel installed and it now is one of the most accurate rifles I own........................

I have had two that just would not work out.
1. Interarms Mark X in 30.06 bought it used had bad headspacing took it back to the dealer I bought it from.
2. Winchester Model 70 243 post 64 Wifes rifle.. Can not get this POS to shoot better than 4" at 100 yards with factory, handloads what ever. Checked the bedding, action screws etc. Wife likes it so still have that one 20 years later..

Pretty soon I can just post a grin and you'll know what I was thinking and it will be just between us.

Raul?

Fidel?

Worst grouping patterning new rifle was a Weatherby Ultralight 338-06. Never consistant and averaged 4+ MOA with factory ammo. After a lot of work got it down to 3+ MOA with handloads. Nice light rifle didn't shoot for sh*t.

Used, a shot out M1 Garand. 16 MOA at 50yds and keyholing. Didn't expect much better than that, a bullet would drop into the muzzle about an inch before it stopped. I'd bet that you could push it the rest of the way with hand pressure on a cleaning rod. It was that bad. New tube fixed it.

Must be a Savage thing. Way back when, I found a used M111 in .250 Savage (yes, they made them in that caliber, in the long action no less). It shot a bit better, 2-3 inches at 25 yards. Quickly found something more interesting and got out of it what I'd paid to get it- thankfully.
Much later (after reading of how easy it was to rebarrel the savage action, I decided to try again. Picked up a used Sierra (their light weight model) in 7mm/08. It did 3-4 inches, too, but at a 100yds. At least that rifle came with a good scope (Leupold Vari X III 6.5x20) for the $500 that I paid for it. It became a 6mm Benchrest project that is still bleeding money.

Kaiser Norton

The worst shooting gun I have eer owned was a Kimber Montana in 300WSM..... I really like the feel of that gun but it would not shoot for nothing... (even after going back to the factory)

My M70 coyote, it's the only thing I've ever had that won't do an inch or better @ 100 with some sort of fact ammo.

starting to really hate that thing, hard to sell something I'm not happy with. It's going to end up being a money pit of a rifle. A benched project action for now.

Mauser rechambered to .308. Patterns, would be a compliment.

Kicked like a Missouri mule, too.

Gave it to a fella I knew from college; haven't heard from him since.....

Dave---Get rid of the factory hot glue "bedding" crap, bed it right, tune trigger, good to go....

Remington 700 BDL. Spent more money trying to get a 1 inch group than I paid for the rifle.

My A bolt out of the box shoots a .57" group every time.

They all make a lemon every now and then.

How about another semiauto story? A Benneli R1 in 30-06! Take it apart to clean put it back together bingo a whole new Point of Impact! Tighten the forearm another click, bingo a whole new point of impact! A wonderful POS that finally cured me off of semiautos.

3.5-4 inches from a BAR .338WM...

not touching, not binding. Best "hot glue job" I've ever seen from Win.

I'd bet a months pay the rebed isn't going to help that one at all. I've had rifles that shot very well without bedding but simply "walked" in the stock which I couldn't stand so I bed them to gain consistant secure fit of the barreled action, gained consistancy/security but not necesarily accuracy.

Trigger is very good, already did that. I know it's good & I know I'm holding true through my shots because I had a Rem UMC fact load dud & I held true & perfect through the snap. Tried refiring it several times & held through beautifully for each trigger snap.

I can rebed, I can pillar bed, I can paint it baby blue swirly, hell can glue macaroni noodles all over it & paint it gold with "I love you mom" on the side, but it gonna shoot with that barrel on there. I don't know exactly what's wrong with it but the bedding is as good as I've seen from any fact rifle & the only difference from it & my own bedding job would be compound density/hardness. They actually did a nice job fitting it even though the bedding isn't what any of us would choose for a compound.

I'll put it this way, I'm pi$$ed at the rifle, wouldn't feel right about selling it and I need a break from it after spending several hundred on different loads & shooting it under diff conditions, swapping mounts, rings, scopes, triger job etc..

The only reason it isn't a tomato cage steak is because the ground is still frozen up here. I need a break from it.

I can understand your frustration........grin. I would still rebed it before anything else though.......

it is the cheapest thing I can do in the line of things yet to be tried. but for a while here, I'm tired of feeding a gun ammunition that doesn't give me any sort of pleasure or even hope for that matter. I just have to leave it sit for a little while. maybe I'll drop it off with a local smith & have him give it an exam, see if he can find anything with a bore scope or by measuring or? If he finds any manufacturing flaws I may inquire about a factory repair.

But until then, I have others that I can shoot that give me the wow factor that I'm after. the confidence & the fun factor.

pretty simple really but it makes a guy hapy when the bullets go where you aim the rifle.

This is an easy one. Ruger Hawkeye in 257 Roberts. Four or five inch groups at a 100 with factory and handloads. I stripped it of it's Leupold and put it on something worth while.

wow, I feel like I'm at a rape victom meeting, raped of ouraccuracy expectations...

"Hi, my name's dave and winchester raped me early this year...."

"hi dave!!"

Probably wouldn't have lost your ass on that rifle if you reloaded.

[quote=northern_dave

The only reason it isn't a tomato cage steak is because the ground is still frozen up here. I need a break from it. [/quote]

Dave, Dave, Dave ... shoot the ground with the damn thing ...
THEN drive it in.

Oh wait, you could lose a trigger finger shooting that thing at the ground.

GE

around 2005 or so i bought a new model 70 classic/stainless in 30-06. it was to be my final rifle, my "one gun for all hunting" rifle. i was excited! it shot ok, but when i tried to put the barreled action in an h s precision stock, it wouldn't fall into place. my gunsmith also tried, took some measurements of the barreled action and discovered the barrel was screwed into the receiver at an angle, as in the end of the barrel was over 1/8th of an inch off to the right of center. sent it down the road and went back to ruger m77. never looked back.

Not sure which model but a Savage M99 in 308. Had a detachable clip and I doubt I could have hit a room from the inside with it. Kicked like a mule also.

Mine was a Rem 7400 semi-auto that if you had the blood of Dan'l Boone in your viens you might be able to hit a very large barn at 3 feet! At 4 feet, forget it!

The worst I ever had was a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem......With 150's it shot 1" or better but with 200's it was a 4" rifle.

Note: I see all of the Mini 14 posts. I had a SS Mini that would shoot .3's all day long with Winchester 55gr BT's.

Robert

An early Ruger 77 .308 with the dogleg bolt handle. I bought it new in the early 1970's. It had an egg shaped chamber and grouped so badly I gave up on rifles completely for a while. I know Rugers are better now, but I can neither forgive or forget.

Savage 30-06, long since gone.

Winchester M-70, 300 WSM, POS.

My go to rifles, a Ruger 30-06 and a Browning .260. Both are dead nuts accurate and you will have to pry them from my cold, dead hands.

I still have vivid memories of a Ruger No.1 B in 7mm Remington magnum. I was young and poor but saved up enough to buy the Ruger and a Leupold 3x9AO scope. On the first trip to the range it threw the Remington factory loads I had all over the target but I told myself it just didn't like that particular loading. Not so, the damn thing didn't like ANYTHING as it turned out. The best group it ever shot might have been three inches but 5-6 inches at 100yds. was usual and many groups were worse than that by far. Handloads, factory ammunition, it just didn't matter. Work on the forearm accomplished nothing. I now realize the rifle just had a bad barrel but I finally sold it and it was years before I owned another Ruger rifle, another No. 1 in 45-70 that shot quite well. However, the early disappointment with the 7mm just left me with little regard for Rugers and I never owned any others.

VAnimrod:

If that rifle was rechambered or re-barreled to .308 Norma Magnum, I know what was wrong with it.

Back in the 60's and 70's, many of these rifles were rechambered, or re-barreled to .308. For what ever reason, a lot of chambering reamers for that caliber were made without an intregral throat. Most gunsmiths who converted these rifles were unaware of the throatless reaamer.

You had to use a throating reamer to finish the chambering job. I have seen some that you had to hammer the bolt open with a wood block, even with factory loads or what would otherwise be mild hand loads.

I purchased a throating reamer and fixed a number of these things. It has been a number of years ago, so I don't remember the improvment in accuracy, if there was any improvment, but at least you could extract the empty without using a hammer.

For some reason, these rifles also had recoil way out of proportion to what you would expect for a .30 caliber magnum.

I think what was happening was when you chambered a round in the chamber without a throat, the bullet was jammed against the rifling. When the rifle fired, the bullet being jammed into the rifling and unable to move, instead of the bullet going down the barrel, the rifle backed off of it, causing the recoil.

Throating the barrel caused a reductiion in recoil, also, making it what it should be for a rifle of this energy range.

The most inaccurate rifle I ever shot was the M1 Carbine I used to qualify in basic training. At 100 yeards, the thing shot four feet high, with the sights adjusted all the way down.

I did qualify, but I had to aim at the ground at the base of the target.

It broke my heart, but I had a .308 Remington Model 7 with a super nice walnut stock that I couldn't keep in a saucer at 100yds. I don't reload, but I tried lots of factory loads, with no help. It was the perfect rifle for a retired guy in the midwest. Maybe too light to hold steady. It's gone now.

George

Browning BAR 30-06. The rifle totally sucked. Traded it for a pre 64 Model 100 that shoots 1 MOA pretty easy.

T/C Encore 7mm-08. I couldn't even get the thing zeroed. It wasn't the scope, as I used the scope on that T/C Encore with a .308 barrel. And it wasn't the ammo, as two other 7mm-08 rifles were just fine with the same lot of ammo. And different ammo never worked with that 7mm-08 barrel.

I still have the barrel, and MIGHT work with it some day to improve the accuracy....

If you do get stuck with some of the rifles described on here, how do you feel about passing them on to someone else who is unsuspecting about how the rifle shoots?

Can you sell it or trade it off in good conscience?

JBD, you must have had one of the early Rugers. I have bought 3 in the last 4 years and 2 were new in the box and 1 was used. One was a 257 Roberts #1A and it shot 1.5" out of the box with Federal Premium 120 Nosler Partition and with Federal Premium 100 Nosler Partition shot 1.25" and with reloads it shoots sub-MOA with both bullets. The used #1B in a 270 Weatherby Mag shot 1.25" with Federal Premium 130 Nosler Partition and with Wearthby 130's it shot 1.0". With 130 Nosler Partition reloads it shot sub-MOA groups and with 150 Nosler Partition reloads it shot sub-MOA groups. The M77 in a 25-06 shot shot 1.5" out of the box with Federal Premium 120 Nosler Partition and with Federal Premium 100 Nosler Partition shot 1.25" and with reloads it shoots sub-MOA with both bullets.

cole k, I think you are exactly right and I don't mean to slam Rugers because I do think many are fine rifles. I just had a bad experience at a time in my life when I could least afford it. I still remember how much I anticipated getting that rifle! Anyway, since that time I have run accross any number of good shooting Number Ones but, other than the 45-70 mentioned, never owned another. I got the 45-70 as part of a trade involving several rifles and did not keep it long but it did seem to shoot very well.

Mine was a Ruger M77 in 270WSM that I bought last year, couldn't really remark on groups cuz after having to hit the bolt with a 2x4 to open it after firing the first round I am pretty sure I knocked the scope off! Seriously though it came from the factory with a sharp burr in the chamber and the brass would bite into the burr when fired so I couldn't extract a round without force. Took it back to the store I bought it (SW)from and made them take it back, no repair needed just give me my money back!

New 700 Stainless-synthetic im .30-06 ..had to have it. With a new Leuplold,was a real solid 4" gun at 100 with just about any ammo.

Not many Kimbers here... whassup with that?

-jeff

My first centerfire rifle was a Marlin 336 RC (Seriel # G5**) that my granfather won in some sort of gambling contest back in the '40's. My dad had it drilled and tapped for a scope for me when I was 14 years of age and started carrying it. I have records of having shot it around 7,000 times. In all the years and all the shooting it has accounted for an elk, numerous deer, a few coyotes, some badgers, some prairie dogs, and I've forgotten what else; but it HAS NEVER produced a group as small as 3 inches. It is typically 3 1/2 to 4 inches for only THREE SHOTS! I guess even in the open spaces of Wyoming most of my shots are within 150 yards. I wouldn't trade it for a new one but it is definately the most inaccurate rifle I've ever owned.

'Nother Ruger mini 14. Mine was a blued mid-70's model. It would shoot 12" groups. Put a 12X scope on it, still 12" groups. Buddy bought one at the same time, his would shoot under 1"..Go figure!
Virgil B.