Well, I have been wanting one for yrs and now getting ready to pull the trigger. This will be a matching rifle to my 338-06 and figured become a "Generalist/Deer Rifle" while the 338-06 will be saved for larger game. Both are Weatherby's ULW's. I figure to have them both scoped the same for familiarity and handling.

So who uses one and how does it perform?

I have shot one for 15 years and love it. It is still shooting sub MOA with 140 gr TTSX and this year did perfect on Antelope, Mulies and Elk. With the TSX I am comfortable with about anything I hunt. If I had to sell all my guns and only keep one, this would be it.

You'll hear very little in the way of negatives about the .280 Remington. I think the main complaint is usually that it is a cartridge that should be handloaded if it is to reach its' potential. Other than that, it is a dandy.

I bought one for my son when he was four or five years old. He is 11 now, and still mainly hunts with his Ruger 77 Ultralight in .257 Roberts, but the day will come when he picks up the .280.

By the way, I have taken a couple deer with his rifle, and it kills like lightning for me.

Good luck with your pair. It sounds like you are all set.

My son took my 280 Mountain Rifle a few years ago. I missed it so bad I bought a 1988 model this spring. I have killed a ton of deer with the 280 and it just works.

Good as any and better than some

Mine has shot Whitetail & Mule Deer, antelope, goats, sheep, caribou, Red Deer, Sika Deer, & hogs. Mine is a reworked Remington 700 Mountain Rifle converted to switch barrel 280/7MM Gibbs killer.

To be honest, it's CRAP.

The 270 WFC or 270 Winchester, is a much better cartridge.

The .270 Win. shoots with 17.5% greater velocity and has up to 11% more energy than the .280 rem. given certain loadings and ballistic contexts. The 270 was also used by famous people like Jack O'Connor, who didn't do much with the 280.

Jim Carmichael liked the 280 to some extent, but he may have been told to like it by powers that may potentially be, if it's what was said by someone?

The 270 Winchester, with the right bullets, is also more benchrest accurate and has greater angular momentum propensity and drive on animals, especially with the latest bullets that are not available in the 280 due to factory crap loads.

In all, with what was said previously, the best of all worlds resides with the 270 Winchester and not with the 280 win. which was called, "the ...280 rem...often an also ran cartridge with poor ballistics and fading fast against the resurgence of the almightly 270 Winchester. Day in and day out, I'd rather have the hard hitting power and flat trajectory of a 270 Win. in my hands when a trophy Mule Deer appears at 300+ yards".

Obama in the whitehouse is CRAP. The .280 remington is a fine shooting, mild recoiling, game killing, honey of a cartridge. It is so close to the .270 and the .30-06, that it has to be good.

One more thing, I own both, a .270 and a .280, and there is no tropy mule deer on the face of this earth that could stand 300 yards distant and discern the difference, "greater angular momentum propensity" aside.

I have taken several of my best whitetails with a 280 as well as a pile of wild hogs.

It shoots plenty flat,tends to be very accurate with good loads in a good rifle,a real killer without excessive recoil or muzzle blast.

It is pretty close to perfect for a lot of the hunting that I do.

I've killed a dozen or so deer with a heavy barreled 77 in 280. It's a wonderful round.

Dude,

We have several rifles in 270 and 280 in my family and I have handloaded and shot plenty of factory ammo in both.

I suppose you could fill a school bus with the big game animals that I have taken with these two fine rounds,the 280 is in no way inferior to the 270 in field performance. In fact,I have had better luck getting exit wounds which I prefer with nonpremium bullets with my 280. This is perhaps due to slightly tougher contruction of 7mm component bullets which are generally designed for magnum velocity.

If a guy likes his 270,he should use it,but to kid yourself that it's better in the field on game animals than the almost identical 280 is silly.

The two cartridges are very close in almost every practical respect except ammo availability,since I handload and order factory ammo online and get it delivered to my house,that is a nonissue for me.

So......

How good is the 280? Just as good as the 270,maybe a little better in a very few subtle ways. For anything to be as good as a 270,it's gota be nearly perfect,and the 280 is just that.

You will never be dissatisfied with the .280 Remington-no matter what anyone says about the .270 win, there is a better bullet selection for the 284 cal., can be loaded with 175gr or 160gr for a good elk cartidge, or a 100gr light varmit load, but my Rem mountain rifle spends most of the time with a 140 gr Barnes TSX at about 3000 fps. Very accurate, flat shooter and easy on the shoulder. There is not much "real world" difference between the .280 Rem and the 7 Rem mag. Good luck

gotta go along with that. I've taken quite a bit of game with the 270, the 280, & the 30-06. While I haven't used the 270 or the 06 near as much as the 280 (my all time favorite) but when I have I can't tell a bit of difference. I prefer the 280 for the versatility it offers over the others especially when I do the loading for it. 163bc

Great round.........I've had 5 of them.

Equal performance to the 270 & 'o6 with a better range of bullet selection.

You'll never go wrong with the 280 but just be prepared to search a bit more for factory ammo if you don't handload.....you won't find a lot of choice on most (small, remote) dealers shelves.

If you handload, the sky's the limit.

MM

Me thinks you are full of 280 Rem.

g

I have used the 280 and 270 a lot. I refer to them both as the "275". I have shot out two 280 barrels. I can't tell any significant difference. However, I quit the 280 after I ran out of ammo and couldn't find a single box and this was after stopping at every gunshop and other likely stops across southern Idaho and Wyoming.

Be careful if you get a .280, you may never need another rifle.

brooksrange:

Please explain just what "angular momentum propensity and drive" are and how they might be relevant. thanks

Sounds like bull schidt to me.

A .280 Rem is just an American version of the 7x64 Brenneke, which is about the oldest pure big game hunting cartridge in existence (not a military cartridge adapted to hunting). If the 7x64 can remain popular in Europe and Africa for over 90 years, its clone can't be bad, either.

Brooks misses most obvious point of all.

A guy with a 280 is 95% likely to be a handloader and a rifle looney.

A guy with a 270 is 95% likely to be filling his magazine with factory x-mart ammo.

A few years ago I was the worst rifleman I knew. I got a 280 and learned to handload to maximize the cartridge. Owning a 280 leads to more trigger time, which makes a better rifleman, which makes a better hunter.

The 280 was an education that I could not replace. 'Course I've "graduated" to 7x57's, 6.5 Swedes, and 7mm08's for the wimmin an chillins (good use for all the .284 boolits).

Besides, the 270 has Jack O'Conner. The 280 has the "7mm Express Death Cult".

How cool is that?



GE

7mmEDC#2

It almost scares me to think about how much money I might presently have - which I might not have spent on rifles- if my first CF rifle was actually the 700 ADL 7mm Express I nearly bought many years ago. I don't think I've yet killed anything since that time that I couldn't have killed with a 280/Express, and I haven't actually even used one on anything other than targets. Everything else on both sides of the scale has sure worked though; 7mm-08 on moose and 375 on caribou.

BR,

That's the best post I've read in a while! you've inspired me to get my old shot out 22-250 out of the closet, and rebarrel it to my new wildcat. I'm going to take the 22-250 brass, and neck it up to .257 I figure I'll have almost the power of the 257 Roberts, in an shorter short action capable cartridge.

Have a great Day!!

Sycamore

You're a gun nut! Of course a matching pair of 280 and 338-06 is perfect.

I wish I was more of a hunter, than a rifle nut. I would have standardized on a 308 or a 270 years ago, and been miles ahead.

Messing with the slightly different calibers is more fun for me. Get your 280 and live happily ever after!

from one nut to another.

Sycamore

My thoughts exactly!Who would want a .270 Walmart special when one could have a .280!I have 2,and a .280AI and wouldn't trade them for any .270.7MM Rules! Monashee

Thanks!

I was (not obvious to all) speaking tongue in cheek!

There is very little diference between the two. The .270 Win. does WIN out for me because my next step up is a 300 Win Mag. I have no need for a 280 given my battery.

I love the 270's 110gr Barnes TSX bullets at 3300fps and the 140s at 3026fps. For me, that covers everything from Pronghorn to Moose. Isn't that about perfect? I like to call it the 280 Improved, the 270 Win that is!!

Have a super day,

Oh, the angular momentum propensity does depend on twist rate, bullet weight, velocity, and ability to produce more BS

The 280 is a great cartridge;just like a 270.If you've used one, you've used the other.Arguments for the superiority of one over the other are kinda funny,actually.

But the only way I'd own one again is if I stumbled over a really nice rifle that I really liked a lot,like a sexy custom Mauser or something.I'd justify it by saying"....well, it ain't a 270, but it's just like it..."Beyond that, the cartridge holds no mysteries, or magic, for me.Ditto the 280AI.I'll take the 270 Win any old day.

Please share with us the specific loads you are referencing here.




Its the beauty of the internet, folks, where anyone with a computer becomes an expert on virtually any subject. I'd be willing to bet that the individual who posted this has never owned either cartridge, much less shot or loaded for one. I am curious, though, as to what bullets are available for the .270 that aren't available for the .280?

The .280 is a fantastic round, as is the .270. Calling one better than the other shows complete ballistic ignorance.

I really like my 280. Shoots VERY well and recoil is rather mild. That said, I figure it's just like any other cartridge. It's only as good as the operator.

Quite a few years ago a smith said that the 280 R. did not have the right throat and he knew what the right throat was! I looked at the drawings of the various cartridges and as I recall the 280 differs from other chambers.

"John Lewis>

Posted 23 January 2003 13:35
Savage 99 - I've seen iffy accuracy out of some factory .280s, real good out of some others. A few months ago I sighted in a A_Bolt .280 Rem that I shot three 1/2" groups with factory ammo. I changed the leade angle on the reamer I had made to match my .280 Ackley and my 7mm Rem Mag. All of the .280 Rems. I've built shot as good as the Ackleys and Rem Mags. Over the past eleven years I've built more 7mm Rem Mags than any other single cartridge. They have been outstandingly accurate and of course very effective on game."

You would have to ask if the 280 is as accurate as similar rounds?

The 280 (aka the 7mm Express)is a great cartridge. Like others have said, the efficiency and range of the round are unparalleled. I've successfully hunted Elk, Deer, Caribou and Antelope with one for almost 20 years. You won't regret getting one.

As far as the earlier post goes, you should be suspicious whenever someone tries to convince you of something based solely on conceptual Angular Momentum or any other mathematical construct. The theory of Momentum allows that a bumblebee, going fast enough, can stop a freight train in a head on collision. I would hope we all can see the lack of common sense and life experience in that kind of thinking.

Oooooh--yer' just asking for it

Actually, I would choose the 270 over the 280 too....

The 270 operates at higher pressures, and seems to do well with a 22in bbl. The 280 is often overloaded to match the 270 pressures, but there are reasons for SAAMI max pressures.....

The 280 doesn't seem to come into it's own until it gets a 24in+ bbl ( and all my serious huntin' rigs have 22in bbls).

The 140gr in 6.5, the 150gr in 270, the 160gr in 7mm, the 180gr in 308, all have virtually identical Sd and BC--from that point, it becomes a velocity choice.......

Personally, I think factory ammo for BOTH the 270 and 280 are pretty crummy......


Casey

Thank you all for the comments both good and bad. Yes I am a rifle nut and love to handload, lets face it, you can buy factory 338-06 and spend $3 a shot or handload and really have fun. This is one of my reasons to go with these two cartridges. I was also looking at the 25-06 but the deer do get a little bigger where I hunt and believe in more bullet weight the better.

I could get away with just the 338-06 and live happily ever after but how much fun would that be. I have 2 great loads worked up for it with a 180gr Nosler AB and 210 Nos Part.

The 280 has interested me for yrs though and nothing against the 270 but I like being different. Plus being of German desent, have to have a 7mm somewhere in my hunting/shooting career.

The thing I worry about is the 338-06 will get lonely if this thing shoots good....

"has greater angular momentum propensity and drive on animals"

Hmmm.... can this partially be compensated for by adding two drops of Tabasco Sauce to each cartridge followed by a pinch of fairy dust?

A fun thread and great cartridges, the 270 and 280!!!

I think maybe Mr. brooksrange needs to be fitted with a Troll hat.....

Try telling that to about 50+ animals I killed with my .280. I am simply amazed at some of the crap posted on this & other hunting sites. O'Conner, late in his hunting career, advised a friend to NOT BUY a .270 & instead purchase a .280 due to the greater flexibility(hand loading). Your statement is similar to those that state a 30-06 bounces off a elk or moose or that a .308 is to small for anything other that whitetails.

read his latest post ... I think he was funnin' with you guys. That's the way I took it when the angular momentum propensity line came up.

No doubt that the 280 Remington is a fine cartridge. I've had it come across my radar screen when considering a new rifle purchase. I reload, but ammo availability is still a variable in my decisions. Due to the similarities between the 280 and the 270, I decided that the 270 is a wiser choice (with careful considration to my use of the word "wiser"). If you have the hankerin' for a 7mm round, there is the 7mm Mag, which has more Umpf and awesome ballistics! So the 280 sorta seems hedged by those two more popular cartridges.

If you're someone who enjoys possessing something that is a little less common (I admire and respect that), I think the 280 would be a really swell addition to your stable. I'd consider the AI version too and have access to the factory Nosler stuff. I hear that their brass is quite nice.

I'm tellin' you guys, that for 95% of the hunters in the lower 48 (Disclaimer: 89.721% of all statistics are made up on the spot!)

The .308 Winchester is THE only, bestest, and super-smartest choice!!!

I have a Rem 700 BD DM .280, and it's done every thing I have asked of it. I have taken whitetails and muleys with it. It's been on antelope,elk, and bear hunts as well. I love mine!

There isn't any practical difference between the 280, 270 and 30-06 and a host of others to worry about..The .280 is a fine caliber suitable for deer, elk and all manor of game...

It's for damn sure he reeled me in

g

Hoping that was tounge in cheek! Because I'm ROFLMFAO!

With equal wt bullets the .280 will meet or exceed .270 velocities. Same case, bigger bore, simple.

I love the .280Rem. All the power needed in a 7mm without magnum recoil and noise.

In a 24" bbl 140s run @3100, 150s will run 2950-3000, and 160s 2850-2900 when loaded to .270 pressures.

It's a good round.

The reason is because of the .280s original chambering in pump and auto loaders...in bolt guns and single shots, the .280 can be safely run at .270 pressures.

The 280Rem is a fine round that should of received allot more attention than it has.
Comparing the two is easy. If you want to shoot 150gr & below, choose the 270. If you want 160gr, choose the 280.
It's very hard to beat a .284/7mm pill though, that's just how I see it. 280 Rem for me with a 160gr TSX handloaded to the gills!

There are a lot of facts in this thread, a lot of opinions and some blather. I've shot, owned and truly like both the .270 and .280. Each has minor strong points over the other. Having said that, I've been convinced for years that if the late Mr. O'Conner had discovered the .280 first, history would be different. Note, I do not state that as fact, just my opinion.

Not as good as the .30-06, but better than most of the short cartridges.

tbear: Sorry but that rumor about O'Connor and the 270 vs 280 is a bunch of paraphrased nonsense.He used the 270 from the time it was introduced (1927?)until just before he died in 1976 on everything from javelina to Alaskan moose and grizzly,and a ton of African plains game.He had earl Milliron build a couple of 280's on Czech mauser actions late in his life and I don't remember that he ever wrote a word about killing anything with a 280.

That was Carmichael picking a caliber for a new rifle he was having built by Clayton Nelson;no doubt O'Connor endorsed the choice of caliber,but I doubt he ever said it was "better" or more flexible.In fact he thought what one would do, the other would do.

I've been hearing this fairy tale paraphrased ever since Carmichael published a story on his now-retired Nelson 280.Generally, it's related ,and mis-quoted,(stretched,if you will)by rabid 280 fans intent on demostrating the fictitious superiority of the 280 over the 270,which is a huge pile of cow manure

When I bump into a guy who looks me in the eye,and tells me the 280 is vastly suprior to the 270,I slump into a catatonic state and conclude I'm not thereafter interested in anything he has to say......

Claiming either one is vastly superior to the other should have the same effect on us, whether that be a catatonic state or otherwise. Each one has very slight benefits over the other. Those benefits are so slight as to be negligible and to make the cartridges "almost" identical. Heck, at times I feel rediculous owning both. However, I've even owned two of each at times. I think I may need professional help. It's fun though.

Fantastic cartridge. A truly great round. In fact it is almost as good as the 30-06!

I couldn't help myself on this one. It's in the same category as how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Just to pour a little more gas, bourbon or Scotch on the flames I'll add this.

The last Custom rifles built for both Jack O'Conner and Townsend Whellen were chambered for the .280

I'll probably never own a .280 because I have a .270 & a .30-06. I prefer them for nostalgic reasons.

Chip-
I've a plain jane 700KS in 280 that is flat out the most accurate rifle in my very modest collection. Nothing not to like with the 280 other than finding factory fodder, and it sounds like you have that remedied anyway with rolling your own.

Not implying that is outshines the 270 by any stretch either, but, it works for me, and I've taken more than a few deer with the 280.

That's cause they were both dying...when they were alive and could hunt, they both used 270's....


BTW Boston,welcome to the Campfire!

As someone who shot the 270 Win for years, I will say the 280 Rem is all the 270 is and more. Why? Take a look at the vastly superior weights of bullets available for the 7mm family of cartidges.

The only weakness of the 280 Rem was, as usual, Remington's lame advertising support of the cartridge. Remington has the habit of introducing awesome cartridges, and fail to support it with suitable, and sustainable advertising so the average Joe can "GET IT".

Another example of a superior cartridge to the 270 win is the
7mm Saum. As Mule Deer wrote, it is a 280 AI in a short cartridge, now I ask you, what is not to like about that???

And I love the 270 win, popped my share of mulies and blacktail with it.

Hands down, best deer cartridge on the planet. I have flatened (landed on their feet flatened) more deer with a 280 than any other gun I own. It seems to be the perfect combo of speed and bullet diameter and weight.

I've got the Weatherby MkV ULW in 280 with a Conquest 3-9x40 on it. It's scary accurate with several different loads. I've had it for 2 seasons and it's my current go to rifle for deer and elk. If I ever draw a bighorn tag, this will be the rifle I use.

I had one recently in a 700 LSS Ltd edition, and it shot fantastic with 160 gr Accubonds. I ended up selling it to a friend who wanted it more than I did. Great cartridge

How Good is the .280 Rem?

In my opinion, it's somewhere between a .270 and .308.

I have been using a .280 now for about 5 years and really have come to enjoy and respect the cartridge. I do handload for it, but have also taken game with the now discontinued Speer Nitrex ammo as well as the Federal Premium with 150 gr. Partitions. Both of these loads are excellent factory loads for the .280.

Since you handload, the sky is really the limit with all the great 7mm bullets out there.

My first .280 was a Sako 75, which I ended up selling to a hunting buddy and then purchased a Cooper M52 in .280 about a year ago (before the Obama mess!) Both of these rifles have shot very well with both factory ammo and handloads. I also like the slightly more uncommon cartridges, so I also have a .257 Rbts, .35 Whelen that I hunt with from time to time.

I'm a fan of the .280 as most here know. I came to be that because I read Carmichaels article on the .280 some 20 odd plus years ago, and liked what he wrote. That combined with the fact that at the time I hunted with a bunch of guys that though you needed 7mmRMs/WMs, or 300WM/Winne to kill our little Alabama deer, and I was staunchly anti-magnum. And finally my dad was of the OConnor generation, loved the .270, and I wanted to be a bit different. When I found out none of the "mag crowd" in these parts even knew what a .280 was, that was it, it was cartridge for me. Can't say it holds any distinct advantage over the .270, except one...I like it more.

I thank you all for the comments. When I started this I was hoping it did not become a "Which one is better?" but hey we all like to defend our favorites.

I'm looking foward to run the gun through its paces and starting with loads in the 120-150 range.

When I picked the 280, it was a tough choice between it and the 25-06, and yes the 270 was out from the start, like I said earlier, trying to be different. By the sounds of it it looks like I made a good choice

I have a 270 and a 280. I think you got to get pretty creative to say one is actually better than the other one.

My 280 gets a lot more use but its because of the gun.My 270 is a blued 700 ADL with a wood stock that shoots great but should come with wheels!It was my first big game rifle that I got when i was a kid.Shot some stuff up here with it but its better suited to sitting in a tree on the east coast like I used it when I was a kid.

The 280 is a Rem 700 stainless mountain rifle in a Ti stock that is much lighter and weather resistant so gets the call for that class of caliber now.

So for me it has more to do with the gun and style of hunting when I'm deciding between MY 270 and 280.

Among others, I have a 280 and two 30-06 rifles in my safe. I could spend a lifetime deer hunting with the two and probably never notice any difference on how one performed over the other. To me, this isn't a bad thing.

Lol! I've been in one of those for several months now! Not sure what's going on!

Yeah, the 7mm SAUM has really been overlooked im my opinion. Probably come back in 2050 as the round of all rounds! All of our kids and grandkids will be misquoting JB and the rest of us.

OCC: My Gawd, please call me and wake me when the thread is over ...

Does anybody else think the 7mmWSM should have been called the 280 WSM?

Yes. I usually tell people when they ask what cartridge my Weatherby is chambered in, "It's a 280 Wby Magnum." I get some strange looks.


The best thing about shooting a 280 is that you have a great standard cartridge and you didn't jump on the 270 or '06 bandwagon to get it. Typically those who choose 280 Rem's don't normally care for the other two.

You won't find a better "generalist/deer rifle" than a .280. It is really an outstanding round with no weak points except you may not find ammo in some backwater gas station with the .270 & 06 ammo. I have been using 140-150 gr bullets for my all around deer/medium game hunting in the .280 and see no reason to go lighter or heavier.

Lou

But..........most of those same pump and autoloaders were also offered chambered in .270W as well.
So....................thinkin'..................

There's no reason a .280 can't be loaded to the same pressures as the .270 in modern guns.

The thing we are all forgetting is it was the original .280 factory loads that were "wimpy" and specifically downloaded for pumps/autoloaders. The original .280 150 gr load was 2810 fps and according to chronograph reports of the day they didn't meet this velocity (hence the bad rep). .280 loads were stepped up to 2900 fps during the 7mm Express days and stayed there ever since, but this seemed too late as 7Mag was super entrenched by then and .270 guys were happy with .270s. I doubt .270 factory loads are loaded hotter than .280 these days - they have been stepped down from 3160 to 3140 to 3110 to 3060 over the years. To say the current .280 factory velocities are "wimpy" is not true - they are above .270 velocities by 40 fps which is about one would expect when a .280 & .270 are loaded equally. You can improve on both the .270 & and .280 factory loads a bit by handloading.

Lou

That's a pretty good assessment. With equal wt bullets, on average (guns differe) the .280 should out pace the .270 by a smidge at the same pressure.

Great caliber! Have one and I love it. Have one in 270 too and I love it also. Loaded correctly I'll take the 280.

Alfredo

I have three .280 Rem's. If I could only own one cartridge, that would be it.

If everything goes well in the morning I should be picking it up in the afternoon. Really looking foward to both the gun and caliber. Thanks for all the feedback

Dude, you never mentioned that a 25-06 was an option! It beats ALL the others hands down as a deer cartridge!

That was where I was leadin'........
If the particular rifle was offered chambered in .270Win, it certainly could handle a .280 Rem loaded like it should be loaded!

The .280 is an excellent round. It benefits from quality handloads just like a .270 or a .30-06 does.