My son just turned 11 which means that he will be able to hunt with me next year. He has been on many trips with me and enjoys being in the woods.I have been an avid shooter and gun crank for many years and have all kinds of neat stuff from Contenders and Encores in both rifle and pistol form to bolt actions of all flavors. The problem is I am 6'2" and my son is 5'4".All of my guns suitable for taking big game are my size not his. Second problem is seems a bit recoil shy so he needs something that is light in recoil but capable of game up to cow or spike elk( tall order I know). The guns I have that may work are a Marlin 30/30 that he does not care for,a 257 Actley with 26" barrel(cut back to 22" and 13" length of pull?) that he does like, or down load a Winchester 30/06 and cut the stock. I am not opposed to getting something different like a 260 or 7/08 if one of the above wont work.
What do you think?
Thanks :-)
Darryl

P.S.
The 257 choice will be painfull because it is a semi-custom with a Pac-Nor.

I've been mulling over the same thing. My current thinking is to trim the stock of my Marlin 30-30 and add a really good, cushy pad, then when my boy is a tad bigger hand over the .257 Roberts which has a 24" barrel.

No way I'm going to chop up the 257 tho!

We've gone through this one for a wifes rifle before. The "Better Bob" could do it but why cut up something you like. Consensus seems to be that a Rem M-7 youth with the addition of a nice pad, seems to be the way to go.

The caliber discussion could go on for weeks but either a 260 or a 7-08 would be a great choice. You can take a 140 gr. bullet for either one and load the velocity down to say 2500-2600 fps, and he should handle it better than the 30-30.

Some might say those loads will bounce off an elk......but I doubt it......... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JimF

If you have encores get a youth stock so he can use one of your barrel/frame setups. tom

i vote for the model 7 in 7mm-08. you can get a youth stock for cheap on the internet or buy the youth model and put on a nice mcm or such later when he gets up there. the rifle will last him a lifetime. i wish i still had my first rifle!
he will thank you later in life when he gets in his 30's and has figured out the "big" picture. you only get one first rifle in your lifetime. make it one he will need no excuses to get rid of. it will drop all the deer he will ever see.
if you can find one with a 22" barrel i think they balance a bit nicer than the 20".
JMHO
woofer

BigD, buy that .243 Model 7 listed in your local paper. Its light weight and perfect for the boy. It won't kick and he'll love to shot it. You may consider buying the rifle miss the scope. I was handling it during lunch and then put it back in my safe! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Seriously though, you should consider a Model 7 for his early years and then get him something bigger when he gets older. I can't imagine you would loose any money selling the 7 when he was ready to move up. The stocks are cheap and you could saw the tupperware model to fit him. But then you may wish to keep it and rechamber to 6mm/.284. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I weighed 74 lbs at age twelve and tried starting with a 30/06. It was way too much gun both in recoil and overall size. The next season my uncle had put together a .257 and took the 06 as trade. I still have a warm place in the heart for that man!

Boise I thought about that one in the paper but I heard the guy getting rid of it was doing so because it was not up to the task at hand <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.
I think the right move is to get him a 260 or 7/08 and be done with it.
I saw one of those Ruger compacts with the stainless 16 1/2" barrel and laminated stock in 260 the other day. Maybe I should grab it up!
Thanks Again

rem model 7 youth in 7-08.

The 16.5" M77 mk2 compact would have some wicked muzzle blast I'd imagine. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Maybe not, I've never shot one, just handled one in the store. It would be a fine choice in 260, as would the Model Seven youth.

I'd try loading 120 gr. Barnes XLC's with H4895 powder. Should be able to make 2600 fps+ in the 16.5" barrel. Would do good work inside 200 yards, even on small elk.

As a hunter ed instructor, I can tell you most new shooters will be much safer with a bolt action than a lever action. ( yes I know lots of us grew up with a 30-30) After watching lots of folks handle the various action types, I see new and old shooters alike uncomfortable lowering the hammer on a live round in a lever action.

For my son and wife, I purchased a winchester ranger in .270. We cut the wood stock down and installed a decelerator recoil pad. This provided a good fit and low recoil. The rifle has the same profile as a winchester featherweight. So I bought one of Rick's McMillan stocks for a featherweight Winchester. As the boy grew, we mounted the rifle into the McMillan stock and everyone likes the way it shoots.

Another alternative would be buying a remington 700 in .243 and doing the same thing with the wood stock. As the lad grows you the basis for a great custom that can be built into a lot of great options.

Unless you know for sure that your boy will be hunting a lifetime, you may not want to drop the coin on something like a model 7.

Handi rifles are pretty cheap,(read as inexpensive) have decent accuracy, have an available youth butt, and are about as safe and basic as it gets. It also teaches a possibly trigger happy youth to make the first one count, cuz that's all you got.

Currently chamberings are a tad limited due to the Marlin takeover, but supposedly other chamberings are coming, like .260.

If you hand load, you could go with a .308 and load to .300 sav spec.s to take the bite out.

There are still quite a few older H&R's around (used guns and new bbl.'s) in some softer calibers, 7-08, 30-30 and 7 X 57 to name three

My 11yr old shoots a S/S Seven 7-08 wrapped in a 13.5" LOP McMillan Model Seven patterned handle. He also just swiped my S/S Seven 7SAUM and shoots it in a 13.5" LOP McMillan Mountain Rifle pattern. I also built him a 22" #1 contoured 25-284 and it rides in a 13.5" McMillan Mountain Rifle pattern too.

All wear Decelerators and I shoot nothing heavier than the 140XLC in the 7mm's and the 100gr XLC in the 25-284. That not due to recoil issues(which it do help),but rather a penchant for how those bullets crunch critters.

All 3 of those rifles wear a 6x42mm,as well as his Model Seven based 223AI in another McMillan Mountain rifle patterned stock and it too is 13.5" LOP. Nice to keep things same/same for him and he can leap from one to another,with little effort.

For a right outta the gate sledgehammer,I believe the 7-08 to be a tough act to follow and the S/S Seven is a dandy,though the LSS Mountain recoils softer IMHO(in their Factory handles).....................

I agree the 16.5" barrel may have more muzzle blast than desired. You can't go wrong with a 260 or 7mm-08. Shoot a 120g Barnes for small elk in either one with low recoil. Numerous options for deer. I have shot my 260 with 100g Partitions and it is a low recoiling load that will work on any whitetail as far as he is likely to hit one. More factory loads avaliable for the 7mm-08. Both are nice options. If the stock fits him, the Rem Mountain Rifle is sure nice......as Stick already mentioned.

HogWild

Before I married my wife, she expressed an interest in hunting and as we are both left handed I jumped with joy at the thought of buying new rifles. For her, I bought a LH 700 BDL in 270 and cut it down and installed a nice recoil pad. She didn't like that one. Bought me a rem 788 in 7mm-08 and she stole it. Go figure! When out daughter was old enough to hunt I bought a Sav 99A in 250 knowing it was the perfect gun. She didn't like it. I did have a LH 700 ADL in 270 mounted in a cut down synthetic that was going to be my next project. My daughter stole that one. Both wife and daughter shoot either one real well with no adverse reaction to recoil. I now conclude it doesn't make any difference what I think but what they think. I can only guide the process. The only sage advice I offer is to think synthetic stock. Personal experience has shown me that they can tame the recoil from a rifle and you might get into a larger caliber with about the same amount of felt recoil as you would get from a smaller caliber in a wood stock. Have your son shoot whatever you have or that you can round up from your buddy's and see where it goes from there. Hope you have better luck figuring it out than I did!

Hehe, i am 14 and the same height as your 11 year old, and you want to know what i use? A Ruger m77mk2 left handed bolt action in .30-06. A sweet gun to start with is the Ruger 96/44 in .44 Rem Mag. The one that i used had a Weaver V3, 1-3x20 scope on top. Nice lil combo with 275 grain core-lokts. Shoots nice, kicks marginal. Gun is cheap. Also a lever. easy to use. Only problem is that the safety sucks for lefty people. My words of advice, DONT GET ANYTHING MORE THAN 7 LBS!!!! THAT IS WITH A SCOPE IF YOU SO CHOOSE.

NH_Hunter

I have a 7x57 here for the kids if they take a mind to go hunting.

Either the 7x57 or the 6.5x55 in sporterized surplus would be an inexpensive entry gun that could be used on just about anything on this continent with good results.

SC..........out

Mod. 7 in 7mm08 worked my young'un.

There is no doubt that a 260 or 7'08 would be the better choice because of the heavier bullet for elk. Colorado allows the 243/6mm to be used for elk hunting with a minimum bullet weight of 85 grains,so a 100 grain partition would no doubt be better than the 85. It surprised me to see that in their regulations as they are known for being strict and sometimes hardasses when it comes to hunting in their state. I guess they base their regulation on requests from hunters and rely on a well placed shot with a tough bullet at high velocity. No matter what you chose, teach him to hold shots to a maximum of 200 yards with these lighter calibers. That 257 ackley with partitions should do the trick.

I wish him lots of luck and use a rest.

I am quite biased but I really think you are well on your way with either a Contender or Encore carbine. I perfer the Contender because of weight. A proper stock is quite affordable and tbe ability to easily switch barrels from .22 to .375 should last him for quite some time.

Get him started today, with a .22lr, and move him up into a 7-30, 30-30 or 35 rem next summer for a little tune up before hunting season. If you want more reach you can get one of the wildcats but for now a 30-30 would be very cheap and easy on the budget.

Just an addition to my earlier recommendation for the M-7. Length of the overall peice seems to be important. Shorter is better for small folks. Stay around a 20" bbl if you can.



Although I'm not a big Ruger fan in general, I'm also not a Ruger hater and I like the feel of those compacts. Don't worry at all about lost ballistics. You might lose 100 fps going from 20" to 16 1/2" but that's nothing. (besides you would probably want to load down anyway)



JimF

Here's my then 10yr old,his Model Seven 7-08 and a pretty serious Black Bear he hammered with it via 140XLC. Spring 2003.

No secret I'm a great fan of that cartridge...............

I'm not sure if it would work for him but my 7 yr old likes the K-31 Swiss in 7.5x55 & the Sav 99 in 250 Sav. He can ring gongs all day long with both at 150 yrds & with 87 gr slugs in the Savage I use it for varmints. hope this helps

Wow! I took off camping for the weekend and look at all the great advise that came my way.
My son shoots quite a bit now.When we go out for squirels he uses a bi-pod and I had planed the same for his big game rifle, also practicing off a pack and what ever else is handi. My buddy sent him a Marlin 22Mag a few years ago that he shoots well. He loves a 6 Actley I have on a 722 with a 26" barrel and muzzle brake(you can see the hole apear in the paper). The 257 Actley also sports a break and that one was a mistake for a hunting gun. That was a big reason for wanting to cut that one back.
The Encore is a thought but I don't want him to walk around with a round in the chamber.
I like the idea of the 7/08 and it would give me the excuse to play with one until I can swing a Ti in that flavor.
The Ruger compact seemed like just the ticket but that short barrel had me concerned about muzzle blast.
Thanks again for the suggestions.
Darryl

In addition to the Model 7, you may want to consider a Rem. Model 700 ADL Synthetic Youth in 7mm-08. The hollow stock is flimsy, but I already bought a used wood ADL stock for when my son gets bigger.

The youth models are almost always on sale someplace too.

I'd still opt for a M-7 in wood, cut an inch or so off the stock and save the piece. Epoxy the piece back on later when he gets bigger.

JimF

Hey BigD, the muzzleblast isnt that bad. I shot one. The one i used was in .308. You could also look at the Ruger Ultra Light. It has a 20" barrel and weighs 6 lbs. I would have gotten one of those, but i needed a lefty bolt, so now i live with the 7 lb. Ruger m77mk2 LR in .30-06.

NH_Hunter

You can get a SAVAGE 10FCM scout that will fit him.
Steve

As the caliber gets smaller, the muzzle blast will increase.....assuming the same length barrel.

HogWild

Hey Stick that's a really neat trick <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Wish i could get a bear to lay down like that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. Guess I'll just have to keep on wishin <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Winchester M70 Compact in .308.

for my kids, I went with a winchester model 70 compact and had the barrel duplicated by douglas and chambered to 250-3000. another option, one that I have done, is buy a synthetic ruger in 7.62x39 (has a 308, not 311 bore) and handload 130 or 150 gr bullets. comes with rings, I put a timney in mine and added a 6x luepold (used). rifle with trigger, was still under $500

Congrats on your new hunting partner.

Let me say that I am 21 so it was not so long ago that I was on the receiving end of my first hunting rifle. It will be a very special moment for your boy and will make lasting impressions on him for the rest of his life. I suggest you get him an action model and cartridge you like as they are the action, model, and cartridge he will grow quite fond of as well <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I think he'll like it better if you buy him his own rifle rather than just handing down one of yours. I've hunted with both but there was just something special about getting my own rifle, rather than using someone else's. Sorta like getting a pair of shoes that are yours and not handed down from an older sibling or neighbor. I know it can be a significant investment purchasing a rifle these days, but if you ask me, a life long hunting partner is worth it.
Recoil shyness I think is pretty typical for an inexperienced rifleman. All he needs to do was practice. I was kinda shy about my Rem .270 Win until I had about 150 to 200 rounds through it. As for an antelope to elk rifle, I would suggest a .308 Win or .270 Win. With proper bullets, they will do anything you ask them to do. None have alot of recoil. Your son should be able to shoot them just fine with a little practice. Look for a Rem M700 ADL Synthetic. They sell for under $500. Then put a Nikon Buckmaster on it, for around $200, and you have a very useable hunting setup for not a whole lot of cash.

I would have to reccomend the Remington m700 mtn. rifle. For some reason I just cant get the urge to buy a model 7. Am getting one for my son for christmas(I hope I can afford it by then). Am getting the ss/lam version. We both like ss barrels and we both like laminated wood. The stock will have to be cut but I can put the piece back in when he gets older. My son is about the same size as yours but he isnt recoil shy. His caliber of choice is the 7-08. Like Stick, I am a believer in the 140xlc. That would be the combo I reccomend you get your son. That rifle with remingtons new r-3 recoil pad and he will barely even feel it.