I set out tinkering with my 264 last night & decided to take some pictures to share here. The do it yourself bedding questions come up from time to time so I thought I'd share how I go about it with some photos.

I happen to be free floating the barrel on this rifle so the first thing I did was some relief work in the barrel channel of the fore end. I wish I had taken pictures of this but it's really quite simple. There are probably a thousand ways to do it but I actually use deep well sockets from my tool box as (sanding bars) since I have the entire range in metric & standard deep well sockets to choose from I can always find the right size for the barrel channel I am relieving. I select my deep well socket & wrap a piece of course sand paper around it (which adds more thickness so you must account for this) I don't like too much revile between the barrel & stock, in this case I was shooting for around 50 thousandths of an inch. Unfortunately my first photo is of an "after" shot, the idea of taking photos came after I completed this step. You can see where the pressure pad or contact area used to be in the end of the barrel channel though. I finish with 320 & I am very careful to not contact anything other than the inside radius of the barrel channel. This is important, you don't want to round the edges there the channel trough drops in from the top flat surfaces, plus you don't want to mess up the finish outside of the barrel channel. I will seal this exposed wood later with true oil.




here you can see some prep I have done in the action inletting. I have drilled small anchor holes in the tang, recoil lug & barrel chamber areas. These are the areas where I will be applying the bedding.







Next I dry fit the barreled action back into the stock & mark a spot for my barrel centering tape.... Yes tape, it's just how I do it. I select the furthest point in the barrel channel to locate & center the barrel in the stock. I wrap tape (in today's project I am using 3-M fine line automotive masking tape) I wrap the tape around the barrel until I have achieved the thickness of my revile in the relieved barrel channel.


Next I begin applying my release agent to the areas on the action that will be in contact with the bedding compound. I like to coat the action screws as well, I use a cotton swab.



forward area including recoil lug..

[img]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/northerndave/rifle%20bedding/Picture002.jpg[/img]

And the tang.
[img]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/northerndave/rifle%20bedding/Picture004.jpg[/img]



I'm using a brownells acra glass gel kit on this project. It comes with the release agent, resin, hardener & some color dies.

The release agent looks thick here but at it dries it shrinks down to a very thin film.

Ok, I'll give it a rest here before the next round of pictures.

This has sticky written all over it.

Thank you! Keep 'em coming.

Yep.

Great pics! Thanks for posting, and keep going with the detailed process. I've been thinking about doing this to one of my Rugers and was wondering how to handle bedding the front angled action screw area.....

I tried free floating my Ruger, and the groups more than doubled in size, so I know my gun likes to have the forearm pressure on the barrel.

Excellent Dave.

Those anchor holes you drilled, what are they for? Just to make sure there is enough glass in there?

Good stuff Dave. Thanks for taking the time.
Now finish the job...

And the Saga continues...

Here's a look at the Brownells acra glass gel resin & hardener bottles. It's a 1 to 1 mix, The kit comes with a mixing cup, measuring spoon & a mixing stick but I've never used any of it I find that one kit is good for bedding probably at least 6 to 8 rifles if they are projects similar to the M77 we are doing here today so I just make sure to put the caps back on the bottles nice & tight so it all keeps.



I use cotton swabs for a lot of this stuff because they are so cheap & disposable. I'll grab a couple & use them to scoop out a dab of resin. then I'll use a new pair doubled up to scoop out an equal dab of hardener. Like so:



then I'll Mix it up until I have a consistent color...



Next I'll add die, in this case we are bedding a black/gray laminate stock so I have chosen for my bedding compound color to be black. (A couple drops is all it takes)





Now on to the point of no return, I apply the bedding compound to the areas I have chosen. I start with the recoil lug area & the first inch of the barrel chamber. I use the cotton swabs again here to lay in the bedding. I snip the head off one end of a swab & use it like a stick to poke & work the bedding down into the anchor holes that I drilled. You can see in the tang photo that I needed to work some bedding into one of those anchor holes after I took the photo.



[img]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/northerndave/rifle%20bedding/Picture021.jpg[/img]

Looking back at the recoil lug area you can see I've picked my areas of application as follows, lug area, first inch of the barrel itself, and I have applied compound to the bottom corners on the inletting behind the recoil lug so I create a nice molded support for the receiver in this area, help hold everything true & straight in my little Ruger here.

Notice I have shied away from the action screw hole with the bedding and I have poked the action screw up into place. I do this to keep bedding out of the recoil lug screw hole. I bring the action carefully down into the stock lining the lug up with this screw, I try to engage the screw threads before I start drawing the lug into it's new squishy bed.

[img]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/northerndave/rifle%20bedding/Picture025.jpg[/img]



Coffee time, I'll be right back

Yup on the sticky.

I love the suspense building. I'm sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for the next chapter. Will Dave defeat the deadly accraglass or will he end up glued to his gun calling 911?

Got my money on Dave..........................

DAVE! DUDE!
Don't get any gunk on the Remington catalog!
You must have a Browning catalog that you can use for spills?

OK, now onto the "squish factor" although I have become better at judging the amount of compound to apply in order to fill the voids in the inletting for a nice mold yet not excessive enough to squish out all over the place when I draw the action in, I still expect to deal with a certain amount of "squish".

Here I have the action drawn down into it's stock with the action screws. I just snug them down, not too tight.

I knew I was going to squish out in the tang area but I'm cool with that. That's what the cotton swabs are for.







Looking up front I was happy to see I had no squish to attend to.







I left the mag box out of the assembly for initial draw down of the action into the stock so I can watch for squish out in the forward area of the mag box inletting. Good thing I did.



[img]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/northerndave/rifle%20bedding/Picture033.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/northerndave/rifle%20bedding/Picture034.jpg[/img]

Bathroom time, too much coffee.... be right back

Don't worry Skane, no Remington catalogs were harmed during the filming of tese Ruger improvements

Alright guys, who wants to see the money shot?

You got bigger stones than me keeping the bolt and trigger/sear installed during this!

Thanks for the pics. They're worth 1000 words to the folks who've asked me how to do this.

SOS

Dave,

Does any compound 'squish' into the recoil lug threads, or on that screw? Or the tang threads/screw?

That's the thing I'm scared of- is having the compound get into, or on, the action threads/screws once you squish it into place.....

I know you mentioned applying release agent to the screws, do you also put some of that agent up into the threads?

OK, I'll bite - as long as it's not the "money shot" from the 7-08 thread.....

+1. Maybe I'm missing it, but how did you keep the bedding compound from getting into the trigger assembly area?

First I better show what that band of tape was for on the barrel. See how it acts as a centering shim to hold the barreled action true in the stock while the bedding sets up?







Once I had the excess bedding (squish) cleaned from the mag box area I held the action firmly in place while I loosened the forward screw & tang screw at the rear of the trigger guard so I could install the mag box in it�s place. I then re-snugged the action screws & included the mid action screw this time. I did this to ensure that the floor plate would open & close properly, don�t want anything binding when the bedding dries.




Now we fast forward about 5 hours to where I pop her loose. Although the bedding is far from completely cured at this time it is well on it's way & will not break apart or lose it's shape when you crack it open. I do this so that I can tend to any unwanted bedding compound on areas such as the screw threads before the bedding is fully cured, at this point it is very firm but manageable for minor clean up & trimming tasks.

To pop it loose I'll hold the rifle belly down with one hand firmly grasping the fore end way up front, the other hand is at the grip area with my thumb hooked over the top of the tang.

I'll use a firm but padded surface such as the back of a couch or simply double over a bath towel & place it on a kitchen counter top or table top near the table edge. I'm going to pull down on the fore end with my forward hand gently striking the barrel just forward of the stock fore end on the doubled over towel that lays on the counter top or table. Gentle at first & increasing strength of the blow (within reason folks) controlled straight downward pulls until you feel it pop loose. then you can carefully wiggle the action out of the stock to revile your new bedding. The release agent will be hanging onto everything like loose sunburnt skin at this point. You can just peel it right off.

Here's the new bedding in my .264 M77





[img]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/northerndave/rifle%20bedding/Picture043.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/northerndave/rifle%20bedding/Picture042.jpg[/img]

I'll trim anything that needs trimming, peal the release agent & set it aside for a day to full cure. Once it is full cured I will chase the action screw holes with a drill bit to bring the screw holes back out to there original size, don't want that bedding hugging the action screws when we are all done.

There we have it, do it yourself free float & bedding.

hope it helps someone overcome fears of glueing there action into there stock

Dave

Disregard my question. I see now that there wasn't enough compound in the tang area to worry about it getting into the trigger area.

Thanks for the pics.

I really hope this makes it to a permanent sticky. I also appreciate you taking the time to do this Dave. I haven't yet been brave enough to try this.

Hopefully, you will be able to post before and after group size photos to show the benefit of the bedding.

Thanks again,
Joel

Yep I agree, this needs to be made into a "Sticky"
Thanks Dave.....you got me all horned up to do one of mine that needs doing.

Thanks dave,

Maybe now, I'll be brave enough to try it. Now to find a gun to play with....hhmmmm.

I have to agree with the rest--make this a sticky. This is a great representation of a typical bedding job.

Yep.

You now need some reloading equipment!

Besides the anchor holes you drilled into the stock and the forearm free float, did you do any other wood removal prior to applying compound?

Well I hope there is a benefit Joel

In my mind though the real benefit is often hidden or not so obvious, that being the insurance of consistent POI performance. Things are locked securely in place now & my floating revile should ensure that weather conditions which may effect my stock to a certain extent can not in turn effect my barrel. No variance in stock pressure because it simply doesn't touch now, no variance in heat dissipation for the same reasons.

Not all barrels like to float, I hope this one does. If it does, then I'll have myself a very trustworthy consistent performer here.

Thanks for the nice words guys, I'll have to read up the page to see if I've missed any questions.

Dave

I roughed the bedding areas with some pretty course sand paper (36 actually) to help the bedding grab some "tooth" in those areas. The little holes are kind of like having footings for the whole bed that takes form in it's respective area.

Hopefully this helps answer Tom "tzone"'s question about the holes which was posted further up as well.

In the post where I show the wet bedding placed in the areas I chose to bed, Note the picture where I carefully placed the recoil lug screw through it's hole in the stock. I hold that screw in place with my finger as I bring the recoil lug to the screw. My goal here is to engage the screw threads into the recoil lug before any bedding can squish into the threads.

In the tang area the majority of the bedding (which is such a small amount to begin with) is purposely kept away from the action screw hole so I don't have to worry so much about the tang action area threads.

I do apply release agent to the receiver threads as well as the screws just in case.

It doesn't always go as nicely as this job has gone. I have in the past accidentally filled recoil lug threads with bedding. On some actions this hole goes all the way through into the rifle action where the bolt lugs lock into the action

That's why you have to really study your rifle before you begin this process & try your best to trouble shoot any of these possibilities.

This is also why I crack the action loose from the stock before the bedding is completely cured. So you can clean your action screw threads relatively easily & look for any unplanned mishaps while the bedding is still in a manageable state. (before it's rock hard )

Thanks Dave, great thread! I have a vanguard that needs the same treatment!

I did an old Vanguard for my uncle earlier this week. About a 69-70 model in a wood stock, 300 WM.

That older vanguard had a real nice taper shape to the lug, she popped loose real nice. Turned out really good.

Some have a really boxy lug with no taper, like M70's. It's a very impressive bedding mold when you get done with a M70 but it's a bit intimidating glueing that big square lug into your stock

These are one example of a recoil lug hole that goes all the way through into your reciever where your bolt lugs lock in. (M70's)

Well done Dave.


Travis

If you find your barrel doesn't like to be free-floated (like mine), then what's the best way to add back the forearm pressure?

I shot my rifle, got decent groups and then decided to try free-floating the barrel to see if things got better yet. That was a mistake for my gun, it really opened up the groups.

So, I've read where Rugers like to have 8-10lbs of forearm pressure. Hang this weight on the front sling stud while some compound sets up in the first 1-2" of the stock channel?

Mine a newer one in a B&C Medalist stock. I am anxious to hear if the accuracy improves and gets rid of the fliers.

Blackfrog, although I've never had to do it, yes that is how I would go about it.

most contact pads that I've seen from the factory aren't very large though. Like a little half pipe pad up front that's only 1/2" to 3/4" wide.

Have you tried shimming up front to simulate a pressure/suport pad & shooting it that way?

Yes I did.

I got my rifle, shot decent groups for factory ammo (1-1.25") and then thought about free floating. My mistake was that I should have just shimmed underneath the recoil lug to raise the action a little and float the barrel- a temporary "free floating". Then I could at least go back if it didn't work. For some reason I wasn't thinking too well and I went ahead and removed some material from the forearm support to free-float the barrel.

I did a real nice job and sealed up the wood again.... Went and shot the gun and my groups opened up to 4" or so. In disgust with myself I cut a 1" strip from an ammo carton, took apart the stock, and placed that back in the tip of the forearm. Tightened everything back up and the groups went right back down to around an inch.

I was not happy at what I had done....

Hmm, well don't beat yourself up, I jumped into a free float without testing this one. I have yet to run into the situation where I go backwards from free floating. So, I'm crossing my fingers

That exactly answers it. Thanks.

Same here Dave.

Dave ... gotsa question ....

I have never tried to bed a rifle, but am going to this summer to a few. I was under the impression (perhaps incorrectly) that the back of the tang shouldn't be touching the stock. I'm refering to the veritcal part. Is that not the case? I have heard that it contributes to cracked handles, but it appears as if the back of your tang does indeed make contact with the stock.

Any clarification by anyone ... would be greatly welcomed!

Hmm, well I can certainly understand that theory & that practice.

It does sound like a valid point.

I don't bed back there to absorb or spread the load of recoil, my only intent is to assist in the lateral alignment of the barreled action in the stock.

I would have to guess that your concern is valid and can only stand by & wait for someone else to chime in with an opinion.

I don�t think it�s likely I�ll crack the stock but I understand what you are saying. It�s the same reason I re-drill my action screw holes after bedding.

Bump! this needs to be on top.......Oh Rick.

Good job Dave. I've done several 77's myself. Thanks for the pics. Very helpful for those who haven't done it, and also those who have.

Well done Dave!! You make it look easy, I have been sending my guns out for bedding but I think will make a run at the next one myself.

+100000 on the sticky

Good job Dave, should help make it shoot.
On the ones I've had to add pressure points back into the forend, I've just cut small plastic squares(half of a finger from a shotgun wad come in handy) and add one or two till the groups come back. Then I'll add bedding compound over and under them to keep them in place and give a more uniform cradle to the barrel.
As to the tang mortise fit, I've always been told not to let the back of the tang bear against the stock. Something about being a secondary recoil shoulder causing accuracy problems as well as splits. Don't know that it's true, but have seen it in a couple gunsmith books.

Here's my bedded Ruger 77 VT stock :

Hornady One shot in a spray can makes a pretty handy release agent as well and is sometimes easier to make sure you have everything covered since you can spray.

Just a thought, I've used it twice and it worked great and most people already have it.

wow, very nice andre. That's a level above what I have shown with my acra glass gell progect

looks like someone did a full action fit & broke out the clay for bedding dams & everything.

Well, I tinkered again last night a little. I sealed up the wood inside the barrel channel with some linseed oil (it's what I had laying around)



I pealed the release agent clean from everything and re drilled the action screw holes.







Then I got looking at the trigger. I'm ok with a "hunting wieght" pull, but it had too much creep. So I fixed that problem while I had the action out of the stock. I did a little work to the factory trigger and I'm very happy with it now.



Then I put it all back together.







[img]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/northerndave/rifle%20bedding/Picture062.jpg[/img]

Now I'm ready for a range test.

Dave,

This is a great post and will prove to be a big help to me for sure. Going to be doing a Winchester Featherweight very soon so the step by step pictures really help. Thanks again. Keep the post going with your range findings & maybe some pics of before and after groups if you have them.

CLB

I am betting on things tightening up for you now. Great looking job on your rifle, and it is a very good looking set-up indeed. Are you planning another elk hunt this fall? If so, it would be a sin not to take this rifle with you.

I got a good friend (backwoodsbrian) posts here, he's talking about picking up a left over tag, coming along on our elk hunt & bringing his 257WBY. If Brian brings his 257WBY I'll leave my .300WBY at home & bring this 264 instead (assuming I can get it to shoot)

CLB, I've done a couple M70 FWT's. Be sure to keep a clear opening through your wet bedding for the recoil lug screw to be pushed up into place in the stock (with floorplate & hinge) have that clean screw poked up into place& bring the recoil lug to the screw, engage the threads before you let the lug down into the inletting full of wet bedding. That action screw hole in the M70 recoil lug is drilled all the way through up into the action. If you are not careful you can squish a bunch of wet bedding up into the action where the bolt lugs lock into the action.

I know this guy, that learned the hard way.....

One more vote for sticky status .
Great step by step and the pics really help.

Great thread Dave

Your trick with the tape on the barrel was worth the time it took to read your tutorial. That's exactly the problem I had when I bedded my first rifle this winter. You mighty large cojones to bed that thing without putting any tape on the stock to protect from splooge. Thanks Dave.

Thanks Dave, I'd love to boast about having done it myself, but it's not the case. I had the rifle bedded to host a new Lothar Walther SS Match bbl.

that's some quality work there Andre. reminds me of the bedding we would tend to on the old M40 A-1's when I was a weapons repairman in the USMC. Someone is using "the runny stuff"

which is a whole different bag of tricks & a whole new level of bravery.

I recomend the acra glass gel type of bedding for us hunters looking to do our own acurizing. much safer.


thanks Scorp & Phil, that tape band trick is pretty simple but very helpful for centering the barrel.

I picked up a new box of factory loads. Going with the green box this time, 140 gr soft points again. But the crimp looks perfectly normal on these. The crimp on those win power points looked like a pair of elastic waist band 44" pants on a 28" kid.


I'll send a few down the tube & report results as soon as I get a chance.

I use Birchwood Casey Gun Stock Wax as a release agent


it makes it easier to see where the release agent has been applied

Dave a lil knowledge is a dangerouse thing. I read this thread a couple times, and then decided what the heck lets pull the stock and check it out.

Next thing I know I have a chisel and am going to town....

Next thing I know I have Acraglass everywhere. I'm talking it looked like a kindergardner got into the fingerpaints. Got everything cleaned up I'll pull it in a hour or so and see just how big of a mess I made outta the hawkeye.

I really need to learn how to just skip over these DIY threads

Dave I would take a whisker out from behind you tang. just on the radious so you do not split that stock. About the thickness of a piece of scotch tape. Good job very neat. I would have had resin finger prints all over my scope. If I leave the scope on it gets taped up and cover with a wal-mart bag.

Awesome post Dave. Thanks for the info, very well presented.

LOL!! Was it a happy ending Bogger??

Thanks it was informative.

Well if you squint your eyes and look at it sideways...it is a thing of beauty

TFF!!

Rollin here

Thanks Dave.

Good Stuff

Up, with the stickiness.......

Dave, great thread, great pics, great job.

Nice work Dave, and thanks for sharing. Heads-up on the use of linseed oil to seal the exposed wood in your barrel channel. I tried the same thing with a Boyd's laminate, and I had a bear of a time keeping the grain from swelling. The big problem was the presence of any exposed end-grain, which was really susceptible to water absorption. I re-did it with a Varathane and acheived the weather seal needed. Something to think about anyway.

Thanks VA & others for the nice comments.

and thanks wind drift for the tip. I'll get back in there & make sure i've got things sealed up tight.

my efforts with the one coat application of linseed could be the weak link, don't want that.

Sticky this please!

Well Dave I gave it a look when I got home from work. When I looked at it this morning I was half way awake. Its even uglier now

How long does it ussually take to cure before you can shoot the dang thing?

were you able to pop it loose?

I forget, what was the rifle again?? Please tell me it was that bb gun you have pictured in your toyota truck project pictures?

Gezz...well done...Love that caliber too...Last one, I did I used the pillars from Brownells,lot of work,but worked.Great job on centering the barrel...rifle

Thank you, pillars would be cool. Some of my savage rifles have them from the factory but they are more for looks than anything. They are more or less "no contact" pillars. Basically bushings that don't quite come all the way up through the stock far enough to contact the action.

Looking good!

Can't wait for the range report.

Mike

Dave -

Thank you very much for that photo essay on glassing a rifle. II've never done one but am a tinkerer and feel like I understand the process pretty well now. (For someone that has yet to do it...)

I am still a little confused by your explantion of how you pop the action loose. Maybe a photo or two showing how you hod it and break it loose?

Thanks again!

Yea it popped loose fine. It just wanst smooth an purty. Also noticed some air pockets. Probly redo it once I get some fresh acraglass.

It was on a Ruger Hawkeye .223. Not sure how you would go about bedding a tacticle bb gun though.

Its a Sticky!
Yay!

great post Dave. I think you found a new calling.

Northern Dave and gentlemen,

Thank you for a very informative post with good pictures and written so that I can understand it.

Just happen to have been studying up on bedding an old browning in a new stock and this really helps.

Thanks again,

WC

Someone done went & stickied it!

Hey bogger, that's a nice looking rifle. So your comments are just about the inside then right? ya didn't end up with a bunch of bedding gooped up all over the outside or nuthin right? You'll have to let us know how it shoots.

Coyote hunter, I was thinking about taking some picks of how I crack em loose.

Go to something sturdy like a kitchen counter or a reloading bench. Fold or roll a towel up to make a fairly dense pad, place that at the edge of the counter/table & leave it hanging over the edge a little to be sure you don't whack the barrel directly on the table edge. Then grab your rifle & hold it horizontal, right side up as you would if you were shooting it. One hand back at the wrist area of the stock (I like to hook my thumb over the tang area to help hang onto the action) Then with the other hand grasping the fore end from the underside, fingers gripping the stock only, not the barrel. You are basically trying to pull the stock away from the barreled action. Use the padded counter/table edge as a stop for your barrel to rest on. Your rifle is perpendicular to the counter/table edge with only the barrel actually on the counter/table edge. The Idea is to pull down with a few short pulls (like 3 inches of travel or so) Pulling downward on your stock's fore end & allowing the barrel forward of the fore end to hit the rolled/folded towel on the table edge. Start easy & increase the power of your downward pull on the fore end until you feel it pop loose. The thing to remember here is that you are not just tapping the barrel on the table, you are trying to pull the stock off of the barrel. Like them golfer dudes say about singing through the shot, same goes here. You want the barrel to stop when it contacts the table edge but you want the stock to keep moving down & away from the barrel. So pull through the point at which the barrel contacts the padded table edge. Once it pops, you stop with the whole barrel whacking & just wiggle the barreled action loose out of it's stock. (all of this effort with in reason of course. I�ve heard of guys having things stuck pretty badly & actually having to do things like freeze the whole rifle & give it a try frozen.)

Different actions have different shapes & different places for the bedding to flow into that may mechanically anchor your action onto the stock. This is why you must study the shape of the area you wish to bed & watch for grooves and or holes that the bedding may flow into in a way that it will not want to let go once it becomes solid.

That's why I showed these areas specifically, the recoil lug area & the tang. A lot of people bed between these areas, myself included (on certain projects) but more risk comes with that. The recoil lug & a very sparing amount in the tang area can typically be done very safely.

The most bang for your buck is up in that recoil lug area. A lot of lugs are really blocky & less shapely than this ruger. A lot of lugs run deeper into the bedding than this ruger does too. An M70 has a very robust recoil lug, simple in shape compared to this ruger but it runs deeper into the inletting. They can be a little tougher to pop loose. To me some of the easiest actions to bed are these M77's & some of the savages.

It's almost like savage thought of us when they made there recoil lug, It has a nice wedge shape to it, they seem like they were made to be glass bed.

Dave -

Thanks for the explanation - the part I was missing was that only the barrel was on the towel/counter. It's all clear now.

Again, an excellent post. I'm not ready to try spray painting anything, but I do think I'll bed a couple of the rifles and see how it goes. One will be my Interarms Mark X action in a Boyd laminate stock I bought for it, but bedding will have to wait until I get the 6.5mm-06AI barrel. In the meantime I have some Rugers and Remingtons to practice with.

I don't remember doing the remingtons other than the M40-A1's (USMC sniper) when I was in the service. And when we did them it was a different method we used, very entailed. But I can't recall much about the recoil lug shape or much about the receiver at all. It was a long time ago and oddly enough I don't own a single 700 of my own.

So unfortunately I have no tips or hints specific to the 700 to share with you. I certainly wouldn't be afraid to do one though.

The spookiest one I did was an older tang safety ruger in 300 win in a walnut stock.

IIRC the bar shaped lug was actually angled rearward just as the action screw was, I was worried about locking that one into the stock but it turned out really well. Super tight fit, rock solid.

Good luck with your projects coyote hunter.

The back side of the tang is no different than the screw holes, none of which should be taking recoil forces. Ruger tangs should intentionally have a bit of relief behind them. It may not matter on lighter recoiling rifles, but it certainly can ruin that area on a rifle with significant recoil.

This is a good thread!

Well then, I'll be taking a little drum sander to the back of that ruger tang saddle in the stock. In hind site, it would have been easy to simply leave the bedding out of that tang radius, or place a couple layers of thin tape to the rear of that tang surface before bedding to act as a sizing shim. then remove the tape on final assembly.

Thanks!!

Dave, nice job and great pics.

I have one small quibble, and that is that I'm leery about using the paint-on film-type release agent on screw threads. I can't honestly say I've had problems myself, but I'd be concerned about it peeling when tightening the screw. For that reason I prefer wax in the threads, and I usually hit it with a bit of heat to melt it and spread it evenly. I use a q-tip to get wax into the female threads in the action.

Paul

Cool, before you know it we'll have a valuable resource here on the topic of DIY bedding due to the collective input from all who have developed there own favorite practices.

Lots of awesome tips & pointers being brought out here.

Dave, having followed the thread, I do have one question - what do you charge to bed a rifle for someone? Best, John

I work for beer on projects like this.

Paid before or after the project?

Throw in some smokes or better yet maybe some long leaf chewin tabacka. If the UPS man is bringing alcohol & firearms, he might as well be haulin tabacka too.

Uh, be careful with the beer drinking and bedding. Years ago I helped a buddy bed a M700. We were drinking beer and forgot the headless screws for the action, so the Devcon putty oozed up into the locking lug recesses. Had to use a bunch of rubbing alcohol to get it out, and had a mess all over everything. Oh yeah, he went on to hang out his shingle as a professional gunsmith.

Paul

Dat's funny!!

Dave, when are you going to shoot it and post the range results?

That's a good idea.

Ask me how I know about this ....no, don't

Nice work and pictures. Thanks!

watching the sky, thinking maybe tonight yet.

I don't hardly dare shoot in the yard at home any more. getting so many neighbors... my new neighbor is a border patrol agent I guess. Haven't met him yet.

I'm thinking the range might be a good place to go shoot it if I can't get out to deer camp soon

I think all my targets are out at camp though, so is my rest.

Ya know what would be really cool?

If I could come on here with a story & pictures about how I averaged 1/2 to 3/4" groups at 100 yds, all happy & such...

Well i just come back from the range & that aint what happened.

Granted I didn't have my rest, there was a wind, I was a bit rushed... but they were circumstances that still would have netted respecatble groups from pretty much any other rifle I own.

This time I was shooting 140 gr rem green box.

First group was an inch & a half 3 round group off the paper, 7 inches low, 5 inches right from my POA. Odd I could be that far off since I shot it a couple of weeks ago, but i did shoot different loads last time around too. (winchester power points 140 gr)

So I adjust the scope, go for another group & she's closer to POA now but still loose... like 1 3/4" group.

I try again & net a sloppy 3" group!!

I run 2 dry patches, let things cool (again) and run one last group. calling that last group an 1 1/2" would be stretching the truth, probably closer to 1 3/4"

I'm frustrated to say the very least.

Havin a beer now & mama's cookin tacos so that's calming me down a bit



Next course of action, strap my back up scope on & run a few more groups.

If I prove that it isn't the scope, well I guess I might be going for a pressure pad up front in the barrel channel.


Last time I shot this rifle I had that strange issue with the brass slivers in the bore which I suspected were tearing loose from the crimp on the case neck. I didn't have any of that happening tonight.


I trust this scope very little at the moment. The scope is my number 1 suspect at the moment.

Dave I gave it a go. Re-zeroed it and shot three 5 shot groups. Have been working on a load for the .223 using H414 and a 60grainer. Groups were all equally bad. All around 2 1/2"-3".
But it will shoot a 77gr SMK under an inch (wich supposedly that rifle isnt supposed to shoot worth a darn..figure that?)
Did notice that I didnt have the issue of things moving when there was any pressure on the forend though. So I think were getting somewhere.

I said screw it though, and am goona go look for a pound of blue dot to screw with.

Dave ... I wouldn't sweat the larger groups ... could very well be the ammo, I've had some rifles that love the PSP's and some that hated them. My '06 will shoot <1" with 165 gr Remmy green box. My 7-08 which likes Federal Fusion and Federal TSX loads (both right at an inch with the TSX being a little less) HATES greem box PSP's (2.5").

I doubt its the scope and more like the ammo. The low first group could be due to the loss of the pressure point (although dat is a big drop IMHO). Get some more of the Winnie loads and let us know how she does. Not reloading finding the load could be expensive (I've tried with a 300 Roy :()

Nice job.

There is a really good one on 6br dot com sight that goes into depth of doing a really good bedding job. FWIW. This is the one I follow, a bit more detailed but if I"m going to the trouble, I'll do the best I can.

Jeff

Yeah I know that game George (find the right fact ammo game)

It gets spendy & can be frustrating. My 300 wby will scatter fed premium 180 NP about 5" in a 5 shot group. rem green box 180's in the same rifle go just inside an inch, then last fall I tried hornady ... I forget what they call there crimp loc cup & core sort point.... interbond? 180 grain just over a half an inch.

So, yes I do believe it can be the ammo i'm trying to feed it.

I guess I could go back to the power points & see how they do.





Bogger, are you thinking you are seeing improvements then? Not sure what you were getting before you bed your ruger?

Dave, the one and only problem with the .264 is the lack of variety of factory ammo for it.
Usually my recommendation for this cartridge is to handload.
I know thats not what you wanted to hear but it might be a very real prospective.
Good luck buddy..

As tough as it is to hear sometimes, i'm really only interested in the truth.


so, I appreciate it.

I might gather up one more box of fact ammo so I have some brass to work with, then I'll start shopping for dies. I should be able to work with one of my reloading friends on developing the right load for it.

Yea it improoved. Used to get a lil wild once the barrel got hot. Seemed to stay consistant this time around. Just gotta find a cheap load that it likes now...

I just went through 11 pages and no range report with pics after the bedding?

There's no "happy ending" yet man.

unfortunately the saga continues

I can show you a picture of a triangle 1 3/4" 3 shot group roughly centered on POA if you want to see it. But it's hard to muster the enthusiasm it takes to get it from my camera to the photobucket acount & from there on to here.

I'm going to give the win powerpoint factory loads another shake since they seemed to be trying to group for me before the bedding job.

It's been very tough for me to get time to shoot this thing too. My weekends have been tied up lately and it's tough to get to the range during the week.

Dave,

Depending on how much clearance you have on your barrel now, a quickie test is to loosen the stock up and slide a strip or two of matchbook cover or ammo box cardboard at the end of the forearm to recreate the pressure point. It will only take a minute or two to try on your next outing.

I'm interested to see if your gun is like mine in that it likes the pressure point for decent groupings...

I thought of that last night while at the range & I almost did it. But I was getting frustrated, storm clouds were rolling in, wind was picking up, it was time to hang it up.

I'm hoping she'll group with the barrel floating. If I get an honest inch I'll be plenty happy. Anything inside an inch I'll just be more happy

Ah, yes. Believe me, I feel your pain.

My Devcon 10110 bedding compound should arrive today. I'm going to give this bedding a whirl, and then recreate my pressure point after the bedding job cures.

Dave -

Ammo can make a huge difference. Might be time to start reloading. I've found its pretty easy to find good loads for my rifles by working up powder charges in 0.5g increments, regardless of bullet weight, even if the bullet is a mile from the lands (as is common with my Rugers due to mag length restrictions).

It doesn't take many test cartridges to find a good load, either. It used to be I would load up 4 or 5 at each powder charge, then spend hours at the range shooting them slowly enough to keep the barrel cool. These days I load one at each powder charge and shoot them slowly, keeping track of the impact points and velocities. Then I look for the best grouping for consecutive shots. If I find a good group of 3-4 consecutive shots, for example, I pick the middle charge and load up some more for test. Normally what I find is that load development is done at that point.


Good luck with that rifle.

My first 3 shots last night.... I used a piece of letter sized grid paper with a half inch square in the center. Shots felt good, confident. I saw no holes in the paper. I actually believed that I landed all 3 tight in that 1/2" dark square POA or maybe just barely enlarged it.

When I aproached the paper to find I wasn't on the paper, 7" low & 5" right of POA & a loose 1 3/4" group..... I was slightly deflated.

I got it in to the general POA/POI but it never tightened up. 3 inch groups from 1.5 to nearly 3"

Today the sun is shining, no wind... I wish I had the day off & a crisp $50 in my pocket, I know what I'd be doing today.

Dave, I would leave it freefloated until you shot some different bullets. If you pick up dies I can load for you. I have a pound of W760 powder that I don't have any use for. My Nosler reloading manual #6 has a loads listed using W760 starting with
100 grain up to and including 140 grain for your 264. We can start off with the W760 and what ever bullet you want...Barnes TSX? Let me know if you want to do that....the powder is yours if you want it

Thanks man, I take back all that chit I said about you.


I was looking at boolits that midway has listed for it.

I was looking for the barnes tsx in 140.... I see it in a 130, might have to give that a try.

I'll look for dies & a trimmer or what ever I need, you tell me what you think is best? probably just neck sizing??

All you need are dies if you want me to reload. I have a trimmer. See if you can find some rem 9 1/2 M or fed 215 primers and whatever bullet you want. I would full length resize if I were you. Full length resizing is recommended for hunting rifles and will chamber smoother than neck sizing only. The dies come in a set...full length resizing die and bullet seater.
When I got my 300 wsm it wouldn't shoot factory ammo ( several different brands and bullets) worth a crap, but shot handloads well under an inch with ease.

By the way, if your ordering stuff from Midway get some boretech eliminator to clean the crap out of your barrel...good stuff!! Check out Midsouth shooters supply for components too

Thanks for clarifying CoyoteHunters question as it was on my mind too. Hope this project doesn't have you down and will throw out that you may never know frustration until you reload. I enjoy it but am terrible at it I guess. Decided that while all my rifles shot great- I needed to fix things. Sound familar to anyone else??? Decided I had to measure from the ogive and load everything at .030 as common wisdom dictates. Ouila- instant hell in a handbasket. How does one diagnose, six shots, three tight pairs at different poi's. Now if I could only find my orignal notes for the good overall length........tugging at neck collar as I speak. Thanks again Dave. Post is worth its weight.

A poster here has PM'd me offering a set of old LEC dies for sale. I think i'm gonna give em a whirl.

Full length sizing is fine. Just set up the die to bump the shoulder only a thousanth or two.

hey that is great Dave. If your like me, the sounds in your head will now be like 'hmmm...gotta be the powder....no, must be seating depth....oh I know- need to case trim......bet that crown must need cutting.....dang scope screws.......wait a minute - were those action screws loose....did I let the barrel cool?? Dang it....Dang it.. I swear this is the SAME load that cut a clover last time out...what the..... Enjoy!!!

LOL, kensjs1, I HATE that feeling!

Jordan - just saw your post about the Tikka- are we related??

Dave ... sent you a PM.

I saw that George, mighty kind offer.

You fellers are coming out of the woodwork trying to make a reloader out of me

I PM'd back

Bend has a set of dies in the mail heading my way, Avagadro has offered up a lee press, Backwoodsbrian called me last night & says he's got a pound of powder I can have to get started with.....

You guys are all terrible!! Enablers is what you all are!!

Seriously you're all great. Awesome!!!

Thanks for the post Dave!! I hope you get it tightened up again!

Did you change the scope?

Dave, I've got a Model 70 Classic .264, vintage 2002 or so, that loves 120 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips over a stout load of H4831 (have killed deer and antelope w/ this combination). Mine doesn't care much for factory ammunition, but in fairness, I only shot a couple of boxes.

Dave great thread.

I have done a couple of savage 99s and would add that anyplace on the action that has a hole can be filled with clay to keep the glass from seeping in and creating a mechanical bond. A 99 has holes and slots in the rear tang. I use the polymer clay from the craft store, the kind kids use to make beads. It only hardens in the oven so it stays soft and comes in really bright colors which makes it easy to clean up.

I also put a little paste wax on the finish of the wood around where Im working to help with squish clean up.

Swish

Dave:
Your job looks great!
I too have gone to the gel.

I am not as careful though.

So I usually apply blue masking tape along the top of the barrel channel edge
and checkered areas to keep any unwanted epoxy off of the wood.

The blue tape comes off easily and does not leave any sticky residue behind.

Dave,
Thanks for the great thread. I have a Hawkeye in 257 Roberts that is very inconsistent. After seeing your pics and text I am now comfortable in giving the freefloat / bed job a try myself.
The information you provided is so much better than anything I've seen in the gun mags.
Thanks!
Ernie

Dave,

Great gun in a great cartridge. I'm interested in how the beginning reloading goes for you. I've got a 7STW for which commercial ammo has pretty well dried up too. I don't reload either so I am stuck with what's available. I bought myself a 338 Win Mag to use for elk instead of the 7STW. Easy to find commercial ammo for the 338.

Well I'm going to give the winchester 140 powerpoints one more chance after the bedding job and I will also try to have my backup scope ready to go by the weekend (I borrowed it to a friend that is having a hard time giving it back).

So hopefully I can do some more range testing this weekend & post some results.

Pssssst.....





I got my dies

Big thanks to member "Bend".

Sweet deal!!

Well guys, this morning wasn't my best performance behind the trigger

"I didn't drink too much last night only terty cans of beer..."

But the rifle was trying to do it's part. I went back to the original fact load I started with which was the winchester powerpoints in 140 gr.

3 round group.



Like I said, not my best work but I really felt as if the rifle was doing it's part. I decided to print 6 on the same point of aim. I know for certain I pulled this right shot.




It shows promise. It is showing tighter grouping & more consistency with these win powerpoints after the free float & glass bed.

Glad to see things are looking up! If you haven't done so already a trigger job or replacement should help even more.

yeah, before this last session my 3 shot groups would explore the boundaries of that 3" circle. So I am happy to see the improvement here. The rifle was really trying to do it's part, the wind never let up all weekend and as I stated, It wasn't my best day behind the trigger. I knew actually on both of those shots to the right that I pulled them.

I'm looking forward to a calm day with a clear head to give it another go

also looking forward to doing some hand loading for this one. If I can find some damn primers.

If you make it down to the metro area, I can spot you a box or 2 of large rifle primers.

Thanks bucktail, I appreciate the offer.

I'll wait till I've got all my stuff together & actually ready to load & hopefully by then i can put my hands on some primers locally.

Dave...

Awesome thread! I may actually consider taking a run at my 25.06 with the new HS Precision stock. Been suggested I only "skim bed" it...??? The action has about 1/8" forward/backward play until I tighten the screws, which I don't like at all!

Noticed that you didn't bed the full length of the action. Is that of any potential consequence? Or just because it's a Ruger?

my quick answer is "laziness"

but it's actually more of an opinion of necessity.

It's a hunting rig in a wood stock, granted it's a laminate & seems to be well made. But still, it's a hunting rig. It's a factory rifle with a factory barrel, massaged factory trigger, this is a mild modification that brings gains in repeatable performance.

In my opinion it's the biggest step a poor boy like myself can take with a factory rifle without turning it into a money bucket. The brownells kit is probably around 16 bucks give or take. Well there is enough compound in the kit to do at least half a dozen rifles in the way I show here. So I've got around two & a half bucks in materials into it & the rest is my time.

It really is a low buck enhancement.


More specific to your question about full length bedding on the action, I honestly feel it would be more for looks & less for performance with this rifle.

If I had to rate the areas of the action/inletting I'd say 90% of the value/importance is up in the recoil lug area with the other 10% being some lateral bedding in the rear for alignment assistance. And I guess I see more value in that lateral or �side bedding� behind the magazine well where the stock gains some more meat.

I guess it becomes a question of �where do you draw the line?�

The effort/benefit ratio is strong when you go this far with your home bedding job. Minimal work & the gains are huge. Now when you start taking it further than this the work becomes much more entailed and the benefits for your efforts aren�t as great. Don�t get me wrong, I�m not saying it�s not worth full length bedding of the action. I�m just saying it becomes quite a bit more difficult to do this and while there are gains I don�t feel the gains are huge. Also if I was going to invest the effort of full length bedding I would also be looking at pillars. And if I was going to do that much work you can bet it would probably not be a factory barrel and probably not a factory stock either.

I�m getting too gabby with my explanation here but I�m trying to say this is basically where I draw the line with a factory rifle in a factory stock. It�s a nice performance modification that helps you get the most out of your factory rifle.

Now if I could hold it straight & steady so I could cut some respectable groups to show off to you guys I�d really have something to smile about.




I�ll give it another shot this weekend maybe.

Recoil too much for ya...........?

naw, she's a sweetheart.

but the hangover was a little much for me last time I shot it.

I'll be on my best behavior this weekend hoping for sunshine & low winds so I can give a serious effort.

Big thanks to Avagadro who sent me a "spare press"

nice little lee press to help me get started with my reloading efforts. I picked up a shell holder for it & I have the dies, got brass, powder from backwoodsbrian, it's coming around. I'll pick up some primers & bullets as soon as i can find the primers & I'll mess around with it a little this summer. No rush, plenty of time & it is showing promise with the win fact loads.

Just had to post the big thanks to Avagadro, I really appreciate it!!

Dave

Dave,

Did you shoot it again? How was it?

no time man... soon i hope.

Dave ... better it getting used by you, than collecting dust with me. Hope it serves you well.

Damn ... wish I woulda thunked about it. While on vacation visiting a bud in OK he had a 505 scale I could snagged for free for you too (I gave it to him a few years ago and he never got into rolling his own). It was missing the basket and pan. Opportunity lost.

oh you've done plenty George! I appreciate the thought tho.

I'll likely go with a kit something like the Lee 50th anniversary kit. it has a safety scale in it along with all the regular goodies. Even a press, so I could set the press you gave me up for sizing & primer removal & use the other one for seating the boolits, or vice versa.



I've seen that lee anniversary kit for as little as 85 bucks.

Well I had partial boxes of win powerpoint & rem core lokt to empty.

I got to it this weekend & I had nice shootimng conditions, I put a good honest effort into the powerpoints first with the results showing several 3 round groups at about 1 - 1/4 inch.

Then I grabbed the partial box of rem green box & started slinging them out there with low expectations.

the rem green box surprised me.

I cranked out 4 inside an inch & I hosed up my fifth shot, pulled it right. My bench is an old cable spool, not the right height. seat is a plastic stack chair, too high & on uneven ground. My left fore arm was getting wacked hard by a sheetmetal edge on my rest... things weren't perfect. (these are my excuses)

anyway, here we go, signs of prommise.

Is that what you were expecting?

well, it shows prommise. So I'm happy I guess.

I scored some primers for this thing at bass pros on my trip to louisville. They only had 3 packs in the store & they happened to be the right ones for the .264 so i bought them.

for a hunting rifle (as opposed to a bench gun) that group looks great to me. i'd take her hunting asap.

what kinds of groups are you wanting before you declare the rifle "ready"?

Oh I'm with you, no doubt in my mind it's ready.



I'm not one bit dissapointed with it. I do look forward to loading my own for this one though & just tinkering around.

but it's ready to go hunting as far as i'm concerned.

Nice job and nice documentation! Thanks for sharing the great work!

Baron von moderator, please yoink yon shticky...

Why (not a moderator or a baron, but curious)

because it's been hovering up at the top of the page long enough

You really want to be pulled down Dave?

Maybe we need a DYI forum, for us guys that will "get around" to a project like this.

Don't be so self concious about it Dave, people are still looking at it.

It's a good reference. Shane (Montanamarine)had a good one kind of like yours that I can't find anymore.

It's a great reference and one that needs to stay up as a sticky! I have a Ruger M77/MkII in 7mm RM that needs a free float and glass bedding, but I don't think I trust myself enough. Even with your awesome guide. ;-)

So, how did the handloading go with this rifle? Any updates?

DYI forum's a good idea. Threads like this are worth keeping somewhere.

Well, I've been really busy at work. I've litterally spent more hours at work lately than I have away from work so I haven't fit in any handloading time yet.

I hope too soon though. Until then it seems the rifle does like the winchester powerpoints the best out of the fact ammunition I've tried so far and I really need to give it a good confident effort. I've been in a hurry with everything I do for the past 4-5 months. It seems as if when i get a bench opportunity with this rifle not everything is perfect, I'm seated too high, table sucks, wind, all of the above

ok, I gave it a fair shake today, did the best I could with the old wooden wire spool shooting table I've got which is pretty wobbly.

this quick session was with the same winchester powerpoints that the gun seemed to kind of like.



I added a 1" black leather montana sling, I really like it. (who's gonna tell me it's upside down? )



view down the lookin tube...



100 yds, 3 shots on a clean cold barrel..



probably a bit under 3/4" but i'm callin it 3/4"

I did continue after this, gave it one click left & repeated, got the same sort of group but it was centered over the POA a little better.

I'm happy with this.

Very good amigo! Wait till you feed it your ammo and it tightens up even more!

308, McMillan Classic, Leupold 3.5-10 B&C, Pacnor #3 Super Match, Stainless,

it'll never work, bolt handle is on the wrong side. besides, my 5 year old is sitting here with me & he says he woulda painted it red.



you gonna tell about it BMT??

very curious to hear more...

the biggest mistake I see with most glass bed jobs is the use of screws..If you tighten the gun down, the chances of putting a bind in the action are pretty good....Use a set of guide screws and let the gun sink to the bottom or were its braced. Drillout the holes, clean it up and your good to go. this is especially true on a full length bedding job such as I do on most really big bores along with second recoil lug in the barrel channel, cross bolts, and a threaded bolt throughthe grip. Also don't forget to pack the front of the second recoil lug with clay or whatever for about 3/4 to an inch depending on the length of the lug, so tha the barrel can come out at an angle are you will have married the stock to the metal.

I do the same regarding the guide screws. Like Ray, I let the rifle sink into the bedding compound and leave it until it cures. 3 hours on an Aussie Summer day, 1 week in a Colorado Winter.

JW

I agree with the studsvs screws to place the action in the bedding material. I used a large rubber band to compress the action in the stock, and the tape just like you did to center the barrel out at the end of the forarm.

One thing I didn't see mentioned, I use a toothpick to force epoxy into the drilled holes, so air isn't trapped keeping much of the epoxy from filling the holes.

I also don't like to see the wood thru the epoxy, behind the lug I would have at least drilled 3 or so holes and lowered most of the wood so a large 1/8 " thk epoxy pad would be there, vs thin epoxy over wood, even though a laminated stock is probably epoxy filled and harder than walnut.

Good, quality picts.

Allen

Dave, good thread. Wish I would of seen one before I did my first one. Would of went a long way to take away the stress factor.

Check it out guys, the 264 works on girl deers....

She'd be deader from a handload.

I agree

After the shot I cycled the bolt nice & easy taking time to slip the empty into my coat pocket

There will be a hand load for this rifle soon, I'm really starting to like this rifle.

In my best Darth Sidious voice: Goooood, feeel the power of the handloading side. Soooon you will be measuring neck walls and checking concentricity as naturally as breathing.

Haa!!

just looking for a little "spare time" and a little powder, I've got everything else ready to go.

Very nice Dave! You even used the Burris, even an old Denver Redfield worked for me this morning!

Yep, used a burris. But as I was sitting bored out of my mind practicing some target acquisition on stumps from my stand yesterday I noticed I have a ring shadow inside the scope. It's on the left side along the outer edge, I've never noticed this before. Dark, like a .. I dunno what it could be, piece of a seal or o-ring? I dunno but none of my other burris scopes have anything like this.

Might have to send it in.

do tell?

It's in the deer hunting forum.

thanks, going looking now.

I have a Ruger like that....it loves the Nosler ballistic tips....seated to the lands...1/2 inch groups at 100 yards....gotta give it a little time inbetween shots though....barrel gets alittle warm! Nice little love affair you have going by the way...lol

Nice job on the bedding, i've got to do my 300 with a backward action (LH). It is a ruger m77 mkII also, it shoots 3/4 inch groups with the ruger forend pressure bedded stock. My new stock will also be pressure bedded at the forend but in a nice pepper laminate. I've heard of people having trouble with their groups after freefloating their m77's. I think if you have a good consistent shooting rifle, 1 moa or better, you should leave the pressure bedding at the forend alone (as in my rifle's case). If you have one that doesn't shoot good that way, then by all means freefloat the barrel. Experiment any way you can to get it to shooting good.

Great thread Dave! But don't DO what I did right before a hunt start messing around. I got a m77 hawkeye SS last augast in 358 win for october moose hunt. Opened the box from the mail and ouch that barrel channel looked full of contact. I had been waiting awhile so I had lots of ammo loaded up! First handloads I tried were good around 1 to 2"s a couple with the first two touching. You would think I could leave it alone. Well I had a few cold ones after a long hot day at work and broke out the sand papper! Darn it free floated barrel gotta be better right? Well not sure yet, see the plastic stock wants to spring up and make contact it's obviously designed to do so and is very annoying. The forend is to flimsy and easy to twist. I tried shimming with buisness cards at the range. POA moved up about 8" and groups started off good but under recoil (250gr @ 2350 fps)the shim would move after a couple of rounds. ( should have tried tape ). So confidence was shaky I did manange 3" 200yd group but would it be consistant??

The other day I made a little pad at the forend with plastic weld epoxy from napa.( should be easy to sand out if I don't like it) I thought at least I can see how consistant a little upward pressure is. I've spent to much time looking at Boyd's web site I like that salt 'n' pep look with stainless. Might go this way down the road but I don't really want to add any weight, this is a walkin' roamin' the bush gun.

You would think I would learn form the past I did the same think to a rem 700 SS but managed to remove enough material to get it floated. It shoots good now but if you give the butt of the stock a bump the forend rattles off the barrel(VERY FRUSTRATING). If I forget my buck grunt call I might be o.k with the sound it produces. LOL! Gotta go babbies up agian.

THANKS for the demo and info will be bedding some guns soon with it.
AND BEST OF WITH LUCK ROLLIN' YOUR OWN IT'S A BLAST!! I know bad pun

Thanks clover & welcome to the campfire.

How'd the moose hunt go?

(you can't leave us hanging like that)

Work obligations Kiaboshed it, had a bull tag too. It's a party hunt here (no really that's what it's called in the reg's)and my gang only saw a back side of a cow, so I real only missed out on the party!

The year before we bag a calf on day 1 and a perfectly filled out younger bull (our butcher called a solid 1100#) on day three. Then it was a party and I'm still eating moose tacos!

Picked up some accraglass today. Last night spent a good hour stairing into this stock trying to invision how best this should be done. Top of reciol lug area looks about 1/4" Thinking about extending this deck area back to mag. This would make more stable plateform. It looks like if I want to extend bedding for inch or two down the barrel it would take alot compound!

In no rush still trying to think this out best. I'll have to hide the epoxy when the beers come out! If I can master mamma bears digital camara (I'm still analog) I will post some pics.

Thanks again!

good luck, don't glue it in there permanently.

Yeah thats a good possiblity Dave,

our moose hunts are party only as well, and we can only do it once in a lifetime so you really have to choose your party well

Sorry about the once in a lifetime thing Dave, because moose are a great game. We here are spoiled and get tags pretty much every year. I'm 5 for 10. and did not apply for a couple of years there for I saw a bad party or two. The party I run with now is superior I wouldn't change a thing. Thier a great bunch and with an abbreviated version we clubbered them deer last fall and with the chest freezer full it helps takes the string out of missing moose camp.

Good job Dave. The only minor situation that I see in the photos is that the correct screwdriver was not used and have buggered the slots. Install new screws.

First off, Dave.....thanks for posting. I'm hung up on this step. If I relieve the barrel channel and screw in the barreled action after applying the bedding compound, why do I need the tape? Won't the barrel be free floating given all the channel inletting I've already done?

Another use for the tape was to help keep the barrel centered in the channel which helps keep the action squared, etc while the bedding is curing. I did this step and it worked out very well.

CLB

Yep.

That's what I use it for, to keep it centered while the bedding cures.

Great informative thread! I have varmint 3 rifles that doesn't shoot as well as I like. Think I'm going bed them now!

I didn't take pics but I bedded and pillar bedded my older Ruger tang safety 30-06 and had excellent results.I used Devcon epoxy and Devcon release.Worked great.

Dave:
I commend you for your efforts in putting together an excellent thread on bedding Ruger M77 MkII action. With all the picks and your attention to detail I know it was not easy and was quite time consuming. You are a credit to the community here at 24 Hour Campfire.
I had posted over at Varmint Hunters .com on how to bed a Ruger MkII with its angled forend action screw and your thread was recommended buy Pauls and am glad he did.

If I may be so bold as to offer an observation or two.

IMHO the wood showing thru on your bedding indicates that the action screws were tightened down to hold the action in while the bedding cured. Unless the wood that is showing in your picture was already fitting your action perfectly (which I doubt) then when you torqued the action screws down you inadvertently induced stress in the action. My method of holding stock in place is to wrap masking tape or surgical tubing around stock and action to hold in place. Action screws would be used to keep action aligned in stock with little to no torque on them. Sometimes I lightly torque action screws down a tad to align things up but then I�ll back them back out a � to � a turn so as to not have them affect any pressure on action.

A method I use to check for if an action is stressed is to support rifle butt on a table or counter top and while holding vertically grasp forend at tip and place a finger to feel movement between forend and barrel. I found it helps a bit if you wedge a bit of skin between barrel and wood in order to feel movement, it ain�t much so pay close attention. Now with action screws tight loosen and tighten one at a time each action screw if you feel movement in barrel then action then action is being stressed as you mess with the screws. Obviously this will only work on free floated barrels. Also I suspect the angled front action screw may have a less affect on this method as opposed to action screws that are perpendicular to action.

To respond to others who have mentioned leaving the forend pressure in during bedding I don�t see anyway this can be done and still effectively bed an action.
� If you use the action screws to torque the action down during bedding then the upwards pressure on the barrel will induce its own torque on action and compound the problem.
� If you use the tape/surgeons tubing then you lose all your forend pressure anyways because there is no torque on action as it should be during bedding.
� If I did a good job of bedding and can�t find any stress in action with the method I described above and bench shooting shows still more must be done then I go to applying a forend pad.

So sorry for this post being so long and wordy, but felt this info may be of some use to you guys. I hope so anyways.

Cheers, Larry

PS: For anyone looking for more info on bedding a rifle Google �rifle bedding instructions�. Gobs of info there.

Larry, where you been? 3 posts in 4-years.....great post...come back.

My container of Acraglas suggests I tape (using electrical tape) the front and sides of the front lug. Anybody do this? I've got a Mark X Mauser action, and I'm worried about creating edges that could cause a mechanical lock.

I've paid to have several rifles bedded. I was too chicken to try it myself.

On those jobs, they also bedded the floor plates. I guess it makes sense to have the floor plate fully supported since it is carrying a torque load as well.

How do they do the floor and the action at the same time? Or do they do them seperately?

JM

Hey John, well I like the idea of bedding the bottom metal too. I guess I think of it as a step further than the bedding in the popular inletting areas. A step further would be the pillars.

I guess personally for my hunting rifles I'm happy with the bennifits of anchoring the action in the stock with the bedding I show above. I like the barrel to float free from the forend for consistancy gains in POI. the bedding in my hunting rifles just holds things true in the stock which helps me maintain that "float".

Most accuracy enthusiasts will carry things further & focus on so many things that are awesome but a bit beyond my accuracy demands at this time.

I just wanted to show a do it yourselfer process that that can help your average hunter take a big step in improving POI consistancy.

It's a bit of a "where do you stop" sort of thing, and there is no wrong opinion or answer.

Some say "if it aint broke don't fix it" and some are full blown customs fans that never stop pushing the envelope (god bless them I love that sort of passion in anything)




But this is where I settled in for my hunting rifles.

Excellent Post!

Tom

Thanks Dave, I am about to do my first bedding job on my Remington 673 6.5 Mag. and your instructions are great. It's just as I thought but your pictures are worth a million words. Thanks, Dee

Well I hope it's of some help. As for the rifle in the pictures here I mounted a new Matte silver VXII 3-9X 40MM on it last week. The FFII is going back on my little .17 HMR.

I have trust issues with that perticular FFII. If the .264 improves (accuracy/consistency) with this VXII, then the FFII will be going back to Burris for a tune up.

Just wanted to say thanks again to Northern Dave. I bedded my M77 and it went from 4" to 1" at 100 yards. It's a .257 Roberts and I was about to scrap it. Follow his instructions closely and don't get in such a hurry and this works great. Only made 2 mistakes. 1. That stuff sticks to everything. Broke a little chip out of the tang when I "destocked" it. Glued it back and only I know it's there. And I got a little "hair" of the stuff on the stock. 2. Brownell's instructions say to wait ten hours. Five is better. Was not easy to remove the action after bedding. Thanks Dave!

congrats, glad to hear that worked out for you.

Yes, put electrical tape on the front sides and bottom of the recoil lug. The only contact should be on the rear of the lug.

This is an interesting thread, and takes me back aways. In the late 1970's, I started getting interested in bolt action rifles. I read extensively, and became a big fan of Peter Paul Mauser. I bought an Argentine 1909, new in cosmoline, and was given a surplus 98 in 8MM. Both those guns would shoot 1.5" or better 5-shot groups with iron sites. In fact, the Argentine put 5 Sierra 150 gr Spitzer's into 1.25", at 3000FPS. But, I wanted a modern bolt gun, so I could scope it, and Ruger 77 has a claw extractor. It didn't have CRF, but what did I know?

In about 1983, I finally could afford a new rifle. I bought the 77 in 7X57, what else? I put on a Leupold 2-7X, loaded some rounds, and was excited to get to the range. Much to my chagrin, it printed 2.5-3"!!! With a scope, no less. So, I bedded it, did the trigger, loaded more ammo, which I think were Sierra 140 grain bullets. Still, crappy groups. I couldn't understand why the Ruger, with a good trigger, free floated barrel, etc, couldn't match up to a surplus 8MM Mauser. The Mauser doesn't have matching numbers, has a hand guard and a barrel band, but shoots under 1.5". I have come to the conclusion that the Ruger was just a bad gun, and it was probably the most disappointing gun ownership experience I have ever had. I sold it, of course. I later bought another 77 in 22-250, and it was good for about one inch. It left the house, too.

Bedding won't turn a pig's ear into a silk purse. If you screw a good barrel into a square action, your rifle will shoot. I have bedded all my bolt action guns, whether they need it or not. But bedding won't make up for sloppy machine work. I think it's a minor consideration. As I read through this thread, I was wondering how the gun would shoot after bedding. I'm not surprised by the results, and in fact expected the poor groups after the work was done. Maybe it is better now, but what does a ten shot group look like?

If I've got to shoot at something 10 times to kill it.... i'm sure as hell not going to tell you guys about it!!

I haven't shot it since I rescoped it with a VXII 3-9 40mm. I have suspected this Burris FFII has bad juju for quite some time. As much as I don't want to send a scope in for work, I hope I'm right about the Burris.

I'm saying that a lucky five shot group is not statisically signicant, and does not an accurate rifle make. A ten shot group is a better indication of what your rifle will do than 2 five shot groups. It used to be that acceptable acccuracy for military rifles was 3" at 100 yards. But that was with iron sights. When I talked to Ruger about my M77, they told me that it was within accuracy standard, even though it was scoped. I felt they set the bar too low.

My point is that, given reasonable loads, a good rifle will shoot. I bought a Remington 700V used once, and it came with some ammo. I was alarmed at first, because it shot 3" groups. Then I shot some of my own loads. With almost no load development, it shot most loads under 0.5", with a few in the .3's, just using 50-52 grain bullets. It just didn't stabilize the other loads. That's an unusual case, though.

Anymore, if a rifle won't shoot under 2", there's something wrong with it. It may be a bedding problem, but I think it's usually a more fundamental issue of poor manufacture. Of course, gunmakers would have you believe accuracy is a mystery, that if you glass bed, free float it, and do extensive load work up, you might find the Holy Grail load that prints down near an inch. I don't buy it. Good barrels make good rifles, and proper machine work guarantees accuracy. Why else do you think Cooper is able to guarantee .5" groups? Given, they are talking 3 shot groups, but a lot of those groups are one ragged hole.

I haven't done any load experimenting with this one so I'm not ready to give up.

I've actually really taken to the rifle.

I don't know what it is about it, i've got others that shoot better with common easy to find factory loads. but this one doesn't shoot terrible & i haven't had the time... or haven't given the time to really find the best I can do with this one yet.

I've had others... a m70 coyote in 22-250 most recently that I simply couldn't be happy with so I sold it.

But I actually feel pretty good about this M77 .264, I think It's going to come around. Just got a feeling.

That was what my last honest efforts netted with factory loads. I've got dies, brass, bullets, primers... I think I'll just give backwoodsbrian a goody bag to load up for me & we'll see if we can tighten things a bit further but I really am happy with the above group in a hunting rifle.

Plus I've since changed up for what I feel is a better scope & haven't shot it yet wearing the new glass.

like I said, i feel good about this one. It shows promise I think.

You picked up some Barnes TSX to feed it didn't you? Did you ever get load data for it?

You can snag a PDF from Barnes if you need it.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/264WinchesterMagnum.pdf

yes I did, they are on top of the safe, primers are in the safe, brass is next to the safe...

That's how far I got with it lol!!

I think I should give all this stuff and your load data to Brian for now until I get set up for loading myself.

Thanks for the link!!

Pick heavy is right but a lot of great information

Remember Dave-Imitation is the Highest Form of Flattery.


This discussion help motivate me to do a little more work to try to get this .300 RSUM to shoot. I bedded the tang, action, the complete barrel shank and the bottom metal in a Boyds laminated stock. I also sealed the inside of the stock and floated the barrel. The rifle has had a trigger job, the action screws replaced, trigger pins secured in place, action trued and a factory contoured PAC-NOR barrel installed. In other words, I have done enough work on this Ruger that it should be called a Mark lll. It is now a consistent one inch or so rifle, and I have a pretty good hunting rig. CP.

Woe!! Sweet!

ND, Got any tips on bedding a Remington 700 Classic? Bought a new one in 8MM Mauser and it needs work. Had to replace the trigger, but I am thinking about bedding this one and removing the barrel hump so it is free floated just like my Ruger 77. Looks easy enough. Just do the recoil lug and tang and follow the same procedures? Have always been afraid to do anything like this but my 77 was a snap thanks to your post and worked like a charm. Thanks!

A question with an obvious answer maybe, but I can't figure it out.

If a poor man's way of floating a barrel is to put a card or two under the action then why wouldn't one put a more permanent shim under the action when bedding? Seems like this would save the hassle of removing wood from the barrel channel. That's the part I dislike anyway.

bump

I really need to let a pro answer that one as I'm more of a hobbyist.

But I would think it has to do with keeping the action low in the stock and keeping the action straight with the stock as the manufacturer/designer intended.

Blowtorch, you'll do fine with the remington. Just think it through before you glue It all works out about the same for the do it yourselfer level of bedding like this. (which has always been good enough for me)

Nice work! I did this years ago to an old Remington 700 ADL I have, as well as to a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle, which I no longer have. For those of you who are afraid of doing it, it was a piece of cake. I didn't do my tang though; only the recoil lug area and around the base of the barrel. The fit is so perfect now that I didn't see any reason to do the tang, too. The gun will now put three in a half-inch or better at 100 yards with several factory ammo choices, including the typical Remington green box stuff. Very happy I did it!

Yep.

It's a shame that it takes so much work to get a Ruger to shoot and even then........

Short bus speaks again.......................................................

Northern Dave,
I may have read it wrong but I believe the tape ring on the barrel either at the fore end tip or back closer to the action body acts to shim the action up enough to float the barrel. Then the epoxy cures making a now permanent shim.
The card is just a test before doing the actual glue bedding to test for results of no tip pressure.
It does seem that some stocks still may require a bit of material removal on the side or tip of the channel to get a fit that works for the mag well or bottom metal and allows the free float.

Hi Bob B257, when I do these at home I relieve the barrel channel for floating clearance with the action resting firmly in the inletting as it was fit from the factory. I do not shim up the action or develop a raised bed in the inletting area to carry the action higher in the stock.

Through a series of refitting, observing and slowly trimming the barrel channel I do my best to let the barreled action rest into the inletting naturally and cutting the barrel channel clearance to where the barrel wants to be.

I trim my barrel channels slowly with sand paper. I'll usually use about a 60 to 80 grit paper wrapped around a common deep well socket that fits the barrel channel the best. The deepwell socket is basically a sanding block for me.

The band of tape I use on the barrel at the tip of the forend is to help hold the barreled action straight & true in the stock as the wet bedding dries.

The answer is, because the sole purpose of bedding an action is to stress relieve the lock up of the action to the stock and eliminate and binding/flexing/distrotion stresses that may occur from the action settling into the stock after repreated firing or, if exposed to weather conditions that effect the stock.

If you put any type of shim there, it only effects the point of contact, whereas bedding takes the place of wood as the contact point for the action contact and lock up points. When the bedding compound dries, it has confromed to a missor image of the action contact points so that the perfect fit between them, eliminates any binding or stress during that lock up. It also stabilizes the lock up so that thescrews are far less likely to loosten over time.

When I bed an action, I lightly skim away the wood with a dremmel so allow more beding compound to be used. I only use Devcon Steel as it does not shrink as much as substitutes and I haev foudn it stable after nearly 20 years with some rifles I have bedded.

As Dave has stated, I also do the tang area as well as an inch around the front lock screw and you can choose your method of supporting the barrel in the free floated channel whether you choose tape, business card or a drop of bedding compound the day before you actually bed the action.

It is scary until you try it. After that you will be doing everything you can get your hands on until you get sick of it. I don't keep records any more but in one bad year, I bedded over 50 stocks.

John

Just a vote for Dave's method. I had to remove what I considered to be a considerable amount of wood from a Richard's Micro-Fit laminated stock's channel to get my Mark X Mauser barreled action in there and free floated. The barrel, though, had uneven gaps on either side when the action was screwed in. Prior to bedding, I used the tape ring; after bedding, it was centered in channel and consistently shoots under 3/4". This sticky is worth its weight in gold--probably has helped hundreds like me. Thanks, Dave!

Very glad to hear it fremont.

Dave, ya didn't use J.B. Weld like Sean? I'm aghast, good job buddy.

Maybe next time I'll go with the JB but I'll try to keep it from oozing up into the action...

(It's funny NOW)

I wasn't gonna go there. Glad you did.

At least I think enough time has passed to where it might be funny now.

I could be wrong

I'm looking at bedding two M48 Yugo Mausers that I recently got from a passed relative. He had previously bought NIB Boyd walnut stocks for both. Looks like Acraglas comes in a 2-rifle set; hope I can work fast enough! Anyhow, was looking at the Acraglas .pdf file from Brownell's and they said two new-to-me statements that I thought were strange.

1. Don't bed the barrel channel at the same time you do the rest of the rifle (why not?)

2. Secure the action into the stock with surgical tubing or large rubber bands. Before--when using their single-use kit--I turned in the action screws until tight then back off slightly. Isn't that good enough?

JB Weld actually works very well, espcially the Marine version..

It shrinks very little on curring, cures hard and holds up to high temperatures...

Edited to show bedding under the barrel of a Howa..Stock is a pillar bedded Hogue and I wanted to just bed the first 1 1/2" of the barrel while adding some epoxy to the forearm to stiff it up...job worked a treat and was a notiable improvement with consistancy...

VA had some minor issues with his bedding experience Pete, which is what we were poking a little fun about, not so much the JB itself but some technical difficulties.

Hmmm ..... Im tempted to try it on my very expensive rifle..

Why not 2 or 3 "very expensive" rifles?

Nice job Dave.

I used JB Weld (marine) for clearing up some clearance issues in a Remington Rolling block rifle - worked quite well.

Hey, this is like, the most awesome thread ever. I just bought virtually the same rifle. I have reworked the trigger myself, floated the barrel and pillar bedded the stock. I was just contemplating about whether I wanted to be brave enough to tackle the glass bedding job. After seeing this thread, no worries. It's gonna be balls to the wall and here we go. Thanks so much for this thread. I just discovered this website and forum a week ago. I can see that this forum could become my new favorite forum. Kudos to this forum.

I just read all 24 pages of your post and the pics and things. Not that I'm a knowitall or anything, but I have 3 Ruger 77's, and on 2 of them, a 257 Roberts Hawkeye and a 300 RCM, I had the triggers replaced with Timneys and the muzzles crowned. I then took them home and floated the barrel and pillar bedded the stocks. They will shoot slightly better than 1" groups at 200 yards with handloads. Anyway, my point is that the gunsmith that did the muzzle crown jobs said just about every mass manufactured rifle made, and especially Ruger will benefit from a re-crown, so that is something you may want to consider to pull them groups in even tighter. My 3rd Hawkeye is awaiting my return from 2 weeks of army training and will recieve a bedding job thanks to your wonderful post. Just for kicks, I'm gonna give it a whirl without a re-crown, but will have that done before hunting season.

Thanks man, I'll keep that in mind.

In all fairness I haven't really put enough effort into ... well, no effort into hand loading, So I'll go after that first. Hopefully this summer.

Thanks! Did this on my hawkeye in 257 roberts.. I was lucky to get a 3-5" group with anything I put down the pipe.. Floated it during the week and bedded it yesterday. Took it out today,, all 6 different loads I tried were under 2 inches and one was a cloverleaf! I must say my bedding doesnt look anywhere as good as yours does,,,, BUT IT WORKS!!!

Any additional issues doing this with a tang safety model 77?

Dave,

Very well done.
It's guys like you that make "The Fire"

Tack

It can be done.

I did one about 7 years ago for a friend. The recoil lug/leg looks intimidating, I was nervous about ending up with the reciever locked into the stock due to the angled lug.

But it worked out quite well in a factory Ruger walnut stock.

Tighter than OJ's glove but it will pop loose.



Thanks

Got an old Ruger All Weather Model 77 stainless in .300 Win. Mag. with a black Zytel stock that is not free floated (like the old pre-64 Win Model 70's).

It has the claw extractor bolt, 3 position safety & looks like a Win 70 except that it's a Ruger & is a lot tougher than any 70 ever was.

I installed a Timney trigger to replace the fence post trigger the old Rugers were noted for.

I used to shoot the 180 grain Core-Lokts in the Ruger 77 & it consistently produced 1 - 1 1/2 inch groups with them.

Put down 18 Canadian moose & several hogs with this gun.

Now it really likes the factory Win ammo loaded with 180 grain XP3 bullets & gives me a surprising 1/2 - 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards with a 3-9x40mm Leupold scope.

I don't mess with a hunting grade factory gun that is consistently (each & every group) giving me less than 1 MOA but if I ever need to re-barrel my faithful old 77 I'll use some of the pointers given in the OP.

I shoot about a dozen shots a year (4 x 3 shot groups) to check things out to see if the gun is still shooting "in the money" & I expect at that rate the barrel will outlast me.

yep, this thread has inspired me to do my .257 Compact. The last one I did was in 1980

Just got my Stevens 200 bedded into its new FT from Boyd's, so I'm reading this again waiting for it to cure enough to crack it open. I went with a pillar/recoil lug area bedding job. The rifle was floated from the factory, but the tupperware stock it came in was a flimsy POS. I was getting the 2 shots in, 1 out groups that drive me crazy, even though they were about 3/4". I'm hoping for one hole now.

This tutorial was great for someone like me that had never tried this before. Being a machinist gives me the urge to try this stuff, but without the experience of others, I'd make a wreck of it for sure. On a side note, the machinist thing came in handy for making some custom pillars.

That's awesome, I'd like to see some photos of those pillars if possible, way cool.

I'll throw some up here after I get some screws to put it together. The only screws I have for it are the adjustable length T-handles I made to use in the bedding process.

Good God. I never knew my two self-bedded RU77OM jobs were so interesting.....

Won't this thread ever die?

I sure don't care if this thing "dies" but I'd still like to see those pillars injunhed made.

Here are some semi-crappy cell pics, my decent camera is MIA. The whole goal of this rifle initially was a cheap 2nd deer gun...it's turned into a bit more than that, as I love this caliber.

This is a Stevens 200 in 7mm-08 I got for $196 out the door on a clearance at Academy....unfortunately that's the Academy that was in Joplin, MO and is gone now...add another $200 for the Nikon Monarch UCC 3-9x40, and another C-note for the stock. Not too shabby for a $500 rifle. I'll post some target pics after we go to the range Saturday evening.



The tinge of red and shiny in the center of the bedding is all that is visible of the forward pillar. The red is the remnants of the red sharpie I was using to check contact where I relived the wood around the pillar, as well as proper contact of the receiver to the pillar itself. I made the pillars .430 diameter, reamed the factory screw holes to .440, and ran a 1/2-13 tap thru them for grip. The pillars were heavily textured as well, and were faced to be .010 proud of the wood on the bottom side. A fiend of mine is gonna do his rifle in my shop over the weekend, and I plan on adding a bit more compound forward of the lug recess to turn down the suck a little on the way it looks there. It has some contact with the barrel nut, so the stability is there, but I was a little disappointed in the way it looked. The pillars were glued in first with JB Weld, and the bedding material is Devcon.



The rear pillar had to be notched for clearance of the Savage firing mechanism. I decided I wouldn't try to put any bedding material in the rear side, because I didn't want to try to get the ignition system apart, since I had done some polishing work to it, and made a new spring out of .04 piano wire. The trigger is a very crisp 3.5# now, and I didn't want to take a chance on messing it up. If it's not broke, DON'T BREAK IT is my motto.

Wow! You have a very respectable rig there! Especially considering what you have into it for cash.

Nice bench too.

Ha, like that? I finally got to move it in the house, so I figured I'd try to make it halfway presentable, even though it is upstairs and out of plain sight. I don't miss loading outside in the heat and cold, that's for sure.

As far as the rifle goes, thanks, I'm just hoping it shoots as good as it looks. I was kinda leery about the stock for $100, but it is actually pretty well done. Nice satin finish, and pretty well made.

well it's laminated and you've taken the time to fit pillars and bed the action in it with reveal In the barrel channel you should be golden. Not to mention the fact it is a stevens 200, accuracy sure shouldn't be a problem.

Hey Dave, or anyone else. If you couldnt get Devcon or similar local, what product would you use? JB weld, JB marine weld? I have some PC-11 in the closet, not sure if that would work. Id like to try to bed mine in a day or two and really dont want to mail order anything. Appreciate the thoughts.

JB weld, marine tex (gray) both work great and can be bought at just about any good hardware store.

Looked for Marine tex today at a few local stores, no one had any. Got fed up driving around thats why I figured on trying the PC-11 since I still have some left. But if JB weld is better ill grab some from my dad. Youre talkin the stuff in a tubes? Like this?



or this?



he has some of the first stuff.

I've used regular JB weld like the upper pic. It's working great and holding up on plastic and wood.

I can't see the stick version working out too well.

Use lots of paste wax for a release agent.

Dave...HALP!!! What did Sean use to get his stuff apart?!?!?!

Ru oh shaggy

no, actually it came right apart. a little rap and it popped. Looks very good, except right in front of the lug under the barrel I could have used a tad more. But for my first one, looks great. Ill let her sit a day to completely cure, and should be good to go. Thanks all!

Without pics it didn't happen. Just sayin.....

trew dat

Oh it happen alright Now that im wide awake, plenty of light, it looks like crap I didnt realize how much was missing in front of the lug. A little bubble behind the lug. If I turn it just right it doesnt look that bad Seriously though, for doing it in my computer room on an old towel at 830 after a long day at work it aint that bad....if I keep repeating this I might actually believe it!






Guy at work said dont worry bout in front of the lug, behind it is what really matters. Is what it is, might re-do it later.

He's right, probably. Shoot it and see. You can tweak the front part (or any or it, actually) as needed. It ain't concrete, after all...

What you have there isn't real pretty, but looks functional -so if you don't go exposing yourself, who knows?

I'm a big fan of function over looks, especially on something you'll not see under normal circumstances.

Shoot it, see if it works.

I'd say clean up the holes a little bit so there's a little clearance between the action screws and the bedding compound and shoot it and see how it does. No one is going to see what it looks like when you put it together. You notice I've never shown what my first bedding job looks like . It's always the most recent ones because with bedding, you do get better at it with every one you do. Atleast you gave it a try and got it seperated, your rifle will probably shoot a little better too.

I agree, drill those action screw holes, buckle it back together and shoot em up. Looks plenty good.

And he'd be wrong, for the most part.. I'd say a re-do would be a good thing..

Gotta admit though Lee, it's a might bit better than a squirt of New Haven hot glue....

At least the other guys were gentle with me and suggested it might work. Thanks alot Ill be breaking out the dremel in a few. Not sure ill post back with pics though, some of y'all are too blunt for me

Scares the heck out of me every time I do it, but I just got my Faux Sporter Deluxe M70 7mm Rem Mag done.

Nice!

And congrats.

The boxy lug of the M70 + the risk of ooze into the action from the forward screw hole lends it to common disaster. (if not done correctly)

Always nice to get one of those behind you.

Did avoid any major oozage there, but the real trick on this one was the fact that I was full length bedding because the stock inletting was kind of off. Used tape to center the barrel in the channel as always, but it was little tricky to get even coverage throughout the barrel channel without a major overflow.

Wow, ninja skills, I'm impressed.

Ok guys! Need your help here!

I WAS (operative word) trying to swap out stocks on my Ruger Hawkeye M77. Only ONE problem!

How damn tight did Ruger screw in that angle recoil lug! Google search indicates 95 ft-lb of torque!!! How the f*** do I get that damn screw undone? My FAT torque wrench only goes up to 60 ft-lb!! Trying not to bugger the screw head!! grrr!

Leo

Holy red assed baboons! That's a tight mo-fo!

95 ft lbs!!??

That has to be inch pounds.

Gotta be, that little screw would twist off long before 95 ft lbs.

Small block chevy head bolts are like ... 65 ft lbs.

Looks like I'm off to the neighbors walk in freezer with this Winchester... She ain't coming off. Tried the 5/8" dowel through the receiver and some other tricks, but no go.

Leomort: Ruger puts red-locktite on that front screw at the factory. You need to hold a soldering iron on the screw for a bit. Once it gets hot, it will come undone.

Trust me, been there...

mathman, I may have gotten the units wrong. But that damn screw is in there tight!

To bed your stocks you had to get that screw unscrewed, so how did you do it? I don't want to strip the screwhead trying to untorue that little SOB!

northerndave, yes that ruger screw seems to tigher than some screws on car parts, lol!

dogcather, ah thank you for the tip! Didn't know they put locktite on that little sucker!!

Leo

Neither did I, the first go around. Had a giant screwdriver and couldn't get it to move. Heated it up, and it popped right out.

must be a newer event as i have never had any loc-tight on any of the Rugers i own before. however i did just receive a pair of action screws from Ruger the other week for something and i noticed there was a blue bead/drop, very small on the side of the screw near the end that appeared to be blue lock tight. i plan on popping that off before i use the screws.

They didn't even use blue on the screw, they used red! Blue is no biggie, red is a problem.

Well I have an update to my quest for accuracy with this ruger.

It's been too windy to shoot but I have worked up some handloads for the rifle.

It's a 264WM

Brass is once fired and fully sized winchester (I don't have kneck sizing die)

Primers are remington 9 1/2M

Powder is IMR7828

Bullets are barnse TSX 130 gr.

Charges are 60 gr, 62.5 gr, 65 gr



Good or bad, I will post the results as soon as I get a chance to shoot it.

Neck sizing isn't always the best.

When you write "fully sized" what do you mean? That is, how did you set up the sizing die?

Full stroke I guess.

Go easy, I'm a rookie with this reloading, these are my first attempts.



I actually set the resizing die too deep on my set up or test piece. I had wrinkles in the shoulder area

So I spun the die up a bit and tried again.

I measured COAL for my rifle by partially sizing a neck so the bullet was just snug then carefully closing the bolt on the cartridge. I did it several times and repeated an overall length of 3.26"

Barnse suggests being off the lands 30-70 thou

I'm off by .046" right now.

Wrinkles or waves/dents? The latter can be caused by too much lube on the case.

The idea is to size fully, but minimally. Start with the die backed out, and going in in small increments until the bolt just closes smoothly on a sized piece of brass. This way you get smooth chambering without excessively cold working the metal.

Try a search on setting up sizing dies in the reloading section. Search on this topic and "mathman" if you're so inclined.

Thanks I'll do that.

The die is relieved for the belt on the case.

I guess that doesn't mean I have to put the belt up in there huh?

It's a simple adjustment that would almost rate a Doh! if I could be there to show you.

The bottom of my FL die is spaced off the shell holder about .040" with the ram all the way up.

You can't really tell anything from that.

With the neck and shoulder died with a sharpie marker (best I had on hand) I see tooling contact full neck length but not quite any sign of shoulder contact.

The cartridge fits nicely in the rifle chamber, no resistance when closing the bolt.

That sounds good. When you were stepping the die in, did you ever get to a setting where the bolt got harder to close?

No, the only time I experienced any bolt resistance was from a primer I didn't have seated deep enough.

It took me a while to reply because I stuck my first case.

So I was out in the garage drilling and tapping.

1/4 -20 worked just fine.

embarassing tho..

Learning curve stuff, not to worry.

was just reading the bedding post and admiring the pics .
however i have some reservations about the 50 thousants clearance , doesn't seem like thats enough. it may be right but i prefer more . barrels really do whip.

I shot my bet groups to date with this rifle today.

Not bad for a first attempt at handloading.

My 60 gr of IMR 7828 under the 130 gr TSX was typical for what I'd seen from factory loads thus far accuracy wise.

When I jumped up to 62.5 gr of powder things started to tighten up.



3/4"

Then the 65 gr of IMR 7828, 3/4" group here too. This was after a scope adjustment to bring things down as the point of impact climbed with powder increases.



Accuracy wise the 62.5 and 65 gr seemed well matched.

But I was worried about the 65 gr being a little too hot. I had one piece of brass (mu first 65 gr load) stick a little on me, hard to extract.

I put a light film of oil on the rest of my 65 gr loads and they extracted effortless.

But I'm still thinking I'll back down to 64 gr and give it another go.

Don't do that.

mathman is correct. no oil, no lube film, no nothing. keep you cases clean.

10-4

I'm going to load some up with 64 gr of powder this week and give it another try.

I am a fan of free-floating - none of my rifles are anything but, and own several Ruger 77 OM- all of which now shoot 1.25 MOA or less with most any loads, bedded and free-floated. But then I'm a gunsmith. I have never found a rifle that did not shoot consistently better over 5 rounds free-floated than it did with fore-end pressure- but it could happen, I suppose. It might shoot tighter 3 shot groups, but 5 or 10 rounds would spread out.... The arguement could well be made about the value of 3 rounds vs more in hunting situations. In fact, I myself chose to go with consistent 5/10/20 round 1.25 groups, vs, 5 inch groups- 5 rounds, the first 3 of which would cloverleaf, pre- free-floating the bbl. in a Ruger 77 '06. I killed a caribou at @ 200 yards just a few days ago with it. I favor consistency over anal tight, within reason, and this 17 inch bbl rifle is good to 400 yards if I do my part.

WTF are you thinking of messing with something that shoots this kind of group- factory or not - ? This sub MOA mania is way out of control. Good enough is good enough! At least for most hunting situations. And abything 1.5 MOA is certainly good enough for most opf us- the rifle is better than we can hold....

The best shooting rifle I ever had was a factory standard RU 77V in .25-06, with handloads. It had considerable fore-end pressure which I never relieved, not knowing squat about guns at the time. I probably would, now... It didn't shoot factory loads worth a crap, but that $19.95 Lee Loader did wonders with neck-sized cases - and the caribou feared....

Settled on 63 gr of IMR 7828. remington 9 1/2M primers (only large mag primers I could get my hands on) TSX 130 gr

Partial full length sized brass trimmed to 2.490"

Seated to COAL 3.180"

3 shot groups on cool barrel have ranged from 3/4" to 1"

I tend to think if I do my part correctly it's 3/4"

I'm very happy with the handloads especially considering this is the result of testing just one powder with one bullet and one primer.

I look forward to trying lighter bullets in the TSX as well as other bullets such as partitions or what ever I find in 6.5

I'll be trying some winchester, federal and CCI primers as well and likely another powder too.

The handloading and the trigger are what I credit the most to the accuracy improvements on a cold barrel. The floating and the bedding I credit for consistency, repeatability in varying weather conditions and as the barrel warms up.

For the most part I can say It will shoot this way spring summer fall, winter, wet, dry etc.


It's a hunting rifle.

I can honestly say I'm happy with it.

First time I read this whole thread... and it's a great one!

Dave, glad to find out you got your rifle shooting the way you want it too. It was a journey.

Now that your hooked on reloading...

The fun is about to begin!

Now you will want to go beg, borrow, buy at least 4-5 other powders to try, along with 2-3 different primers, and at least 3-4 different bullets. The combinations are endless! Then just about the time you think you have it figured out.... along comes neck sizing only, weighing cases, neck turning, competition dies, etc...

It's always a nice feeling to know you are never quite as good as you CAN or COULD be....



Because "as good as it gets" is boring.

Knowing that there are still things out there to experiment with is way funner.

I have RU77's - all self bedded, as are all my rifles.

All I have left to say on this thread is "DIE, MOFO, DIE!!!!

I didn't sticky request this thing so I don't know if I can un-sticky it but I'll try.

I'll PM SYSOP and see if they can pull the thumb tack and let her drop.

edit

I emailed him, we'll see.

I swear I sent the email to SYSOP last week and I got the reply from campfire website requesting that I reply so they know my email wasn't spam. I did so and got another e-mail telling me I was now "white listed" (I think that's good?)

So someone just has to open the email on the other end to see my request to un-sticky this thread.

Hopefully soon we will see it sink off the page, don't know what else I can do.

UNSTICKY???...why???...

This sucker belongs right at the top where she is.

I was wondering the other day how you ever made out with the reloads Dave. Glad to see the rifle is a shooter.

We need a DIY section to post all kinds of stuff.

mounting scope bases/rings, lapping, leveling scopes and setting eye relief... proper cleaning and care.... DIY on everything!

Field dressing game for different situations, cutting for packing meat out on pack frames or typical midwestern field dressing. Cutting and wrapping your own, grinding, canning, smoking, sausage making, jerky etc.

There are so many things that could be shared in a DIY section.

I certainly never had intentions of this thread being a sticky, I would have tried to do better than the casual weekday evening effort from my lazy boy chair if I thought it was going to be a sticky. lol!

As far as the reloads for this rifle, I am just getting my feet wet. I have high hopes, I feel I have only scratched the surface in finding an accurate handload for this rifle.

I think a DIY section would be a wealth of information. We have a lot of experienced outdoorsman hanging out around here.

Keeping this a sticky is a great idea. It just helped me through my first bed job and it turned out picture perfect with absolutely no problems. If it wasnt for this thread, I would have never tried it. Keep it at the top where it can easily be found!

First off i whant to thank you northern Dave for your DIY Bedding post. I read it several times and followed every thing you did. done My Vangaurd 257 wetherby. took it from 1.5" to 5/8" with factory 120 grain patitions at 100 yards. Now i will try working up some reloads. this was the first time for me to bed a stock. would have never tride it on my own if it wasent for your post.Thanks for the DIY post.

Thanks for the nice words guys, I'm glad you projects worked out well.

I agree but I have to add a little. Dave is a great guy and his bedding thread has probably helped many here who may have been scared to take the plunge. It's a great guide and Dave is very helpful to those who have questions. I've been bedding rifles for a long time and this thread is a good one. Thanks Dave.....

Too kind BSA, I've seen photos of your bedding jobs and they are second to none.

I can't believe I've seen this thread hundreds of times, yet this is the first day I've ever looked at it. I very much enjoyed it, and learned something along the way. My late favorite uncle gave me an old A3 Springfield 30-06 over 25 years ago, that just hasn't ever shot well. This may be a good time to try your method Dave. Looks like you got that 264 dialed in. I hope this -06 is half that good when I'm done. Thanks for the help.

I glassed/floated my M77 back in the 80s and it sure made a difference. IIRC, the Brownells kits were good for about two jobs back then.

In addition to the release agent, it's a good idea to coat screw threads with paste wax or grease.

Sorry if this was in the thread, I haven't read all of it, but you should also clean out the thread impressions in the glass with a round file or something. Keeps things from twisting when the guard screws are tightened.

"Clemson" on MauserCentral.com has some excellent pic tutorials on gunsmithing. Site is most interesting and you can learn a lot.
Excellent pics of your work in progress. Good Luck.

Well laid out plan. OD

A-men! This post really does help. I've had a bedding kit on top of my safe for 2 months. These pics are more informational than the booklet that came with the kit. Im going tot take a crack at it with a T3. Wish me luck...

What a great thread. I am not a regular contributor on this site but have read daily on this forum for years and try to stay out of the posting side. I just read this from cover to cover and was totally taken in. Dave I really appreciate the time you took on this to help all of us out. Great job!!
Kirk

I have done something similar to a rifle and I have 2 roommates that did 3 stocks. one went south very quickly and the other 2 stocks came out very nice. they both shoot sub MOA.

Tag the search feature here is terrible! (Or I can't figure it out)

Yesterday I was hogging out some old bedding compound on the stock of my M7 in preparation for re-bedding the action. I had a barrel with a different contour installed and rather than mess around making it work as-is, I decided to start from scratch. Anyway, while I'm not a newbie at bedding, this great thread of Dave's was on my mind all the while.

A great and informative thread, Dave.

Ahhh, brings back memories of me and my late brother doing bedding jobs, he always played at gunsmithing and as a mechanic he seemed to always have the knack for doing most anything well.
I did some with him then went out on my own, they worked out great, but to have a thread like this can really help a guy out, especially those that are intmidated by it, it is not too hard, just read the info here and do some research, it is great that Dave has taken the time to post his job.

Please don't forget the release everywhere.

Wish I had found this site and posting a year ago. THank you for the info.

I didn't read every post in this thread,so if I repeat anything I appologize in advance. If you do forget the release agent don't panic. A trick you can try before breaking a stock or buggering anything up is this. Put the whole thing in the deep freezer. We have done this with glued in bench rifles and it often works. The freezing temps will cause the steel to shrink,hopefully enough that a sharp rap with a soft mallet will break it loose. If not,it won't hurt to try it.

First of all, thanks Dave. Your post got me off the fence I've been sitting on for the last 10 years. My tang safety Ruger .270 has sat in a Ramline stock since 1987, with the wood stock underneath my bed. I can get sub 3 inch groups at 300 yds with Berger 150 VLD's in "Black Lassie". However, I will be bedding and freefloating the original stock next week thanks to your pic heavy post. If the bedded wood stock can equal the Ramline I will be in heaven. For practice I just bedded (4 hours ago) a 338 win mag action into a Ramline stock which became available for a trial run when I put the action in a Boyd's laminated stock. I hope I can pop it out tomorrow morning. Thanks again.

Tested the .338 Win Mag in the laminated Boyd's stock this morning. Set up a target and it ranged at 165 yards. Three shot group was .75 inches. This was off the tailgate of my truck with sand bags. I am impressed.

Nice results, congrats!

I had recently posted about bedding the original wood stock on my Ruger M-77 and the hoped for results. Better than I thought possible. A 3/8 inch group at 100 yds with my first test load for Berger 140 grain VLD bullets. Thanks again Dave.

I a ruger77 MK2 with factory laminated stock in 243win. I never removed the action from the stock and I never will, it always great shooter.

It "always great shooter" till the stock cracks out on you. Take it from this old indian. You better bed that sob ...Just sayin..

This is the first time I have seen this thread. I have one little tip. I did not read all 34 pages.

If and I mean If your gun needs a pressure point to shoot better. After completing the pressure point and before torquing the action in the stock, place one layer of Teflon tape on the pressure point.

Any movement of the barrel/stock from temperature, moisture will be smoother without ( I guess I'll call it micro rattle) on the contact area.

I know this is getting picky but it does not hurt.

Just my $.02 !

Never had to do that with any of my rugers, but most of them have magnum wt barrels. There's tricks to these things and I don't fully disclose all of them, just never had a need to do what your are suggesting....

It's a small thing. Like I said it doesn't hurt to do it.

It is mainly for very light barrel profiles shooting groups on bags. Not a reel big thing. Some of the finishes we smear on the stocks stay a little sticky. I know I am splitting hairs here. Particularly on Rugers, it might not be worth the trouble.

Outstanding; very well done..

I haven't been at the campfire for a very long time. Long story that is over now. I have a question for you. I just acquired an M77 M II (2006/07 manufacture) in .257Roderts. Must have been a "safe queen" 'cause it's pristine.
Problem is I also picked up a Bushnell Yardage Pro Riflescope to use on this rifle. The integral mounting system of the scope is not comparable with the mounting pads on the M77 M II. Do you know of an existing adapter that will allow these to be mated? I'll post this on the "ask a gun writer section also.
Thanks for Your help,
Pete

my shooting buddy & me do our own bedding, after you do couple dz, you learn all kinds of tricks, opening up the barrel channel, using different methods to keep the epoxy off the wrong parts, the right time to start the clean up process, matching the color to the stock if its wood (in case you need to) we do a lot of bench shooting and its the first thing we do when we get a new addition.

I've got a M77 that I acquired several months ago. A Savage
250, and it was advertised as glass bedded.
My first shots were all over the place, then I put it away. This is a nice small rifle with Mannlicher stock.
It has been in my safe until a few days ago.

I suppose I will have to take it apart, and just thinking
of sanding the stock, loosening things up, and giving it another go.
Anybody with any tips with the full length stock.

First thought is full length bed it and shoot short sessions to keep barrel cool.

My update is I did smooth the glass bedding to float the
barrel. There were some rough spots, in a not so well done
bedding job. I used a dowel and sandpaper. Now I've got it shooting well within its capability.

For those with a full Mannlicher stock, any tricks, they may
be harder to get accurate.

Gave son-in-Law #2 a Ruger Hawkeye .30-06 as a wedding present last year. We were never able to get it to shoot well with factory ammo, although it liked the 150g handloads I had developed for my other .30-06s.

A couple of weeks ago I took the plunge and bought an AcraGlas kit from Brownells. Today we took the rifle apart and bedded it using northern_dave's pictures in and narrative in this thread, along with the instructions in the kit.

No pictures but a big "Thank you" to northern_dave. Tomorrow we will get it to the range and see how it does with factory ammo and my handloads.

ALso ordered one of Ruger's new synthetic stocks for my Ruger Gunsite Scout to replace the laminate it came with. Should drop the weight 3/4 pound per Ruger and it has an aluminum bedding block and rear pillar. Might have to put the scope back on to see if the new stock tightens the groups any.

I hope that worked out for you.

I haven't checked in here in the rifles section for a long time.

I can't believe this is still a sticky.

lol.

Thanks Dave I have 3 rem. 700s 22-250 s that I am planning to do here. I bought the miles gilbert bed rock kit. Oh & by the way I have never built a rifle in my life & now I have about 25 longs to build.

Ron

It would be nice to be able to see the pictures.

They may not reappear. Photobucket screwed around and the original poster has greatly curtailed his activity on this forum.

The change in Photobucket policies has really screwed up some of the older posts all around this site.

everywhere actually.

all internet forums are hosed due to photobucket.

Here, try this if you want to see the pictures. They will be out of order I'm afraid. The slideshow will likely run backwards.



slide show?

page 1 of slide show?

I don't know if that will work or help. Sorry guys, I'm trying. I don't have free computer time like I used to otherwise I would transfer to a different image host and sit down and fix this mess.

And by fix, I mean I'd repost because this thread is so damn old I can't go back and edit.

Hooray!! All the pics are back! I followed the instructions in Rick Bin's announcement about the Photobucket fix for Firefox and Chrome. Worked like a charm.

Can you edit to provide a pointer to that post by rick bin? if so; I will delete my request and keep this sticky clean.

Pictures are now back without any tricks.

Nice job northern_dave, well done.
Here is how I did DIY bedding on my Interarms Mark X MZ (clik on Interarms Mark X MZ its a link to photo gallery).
I used Loctite 3479, shoe polish as a release agent. Thats my first bedding job. Rifle shoots great.

I really like the idea of taping the barrel to center it in the barrel channel. I'll start using that one myself, thanks your sharing your knowledge!!!

Well done and thank you

Just read this entirely and it's good to read all the helpful knowledge and there was no one slamming one another. The DIY by northern dave was very well done and explained how and why.

My 77 204 is curing now, no speed bump up front but can build one in if needed, Popped the action out after 6 hours and all looks good, thanks Dave.