With a NA perspective and knowledge of your tough games, What's the biggest critter you would confidently shoot with such a caliber (at reasonable ranges: from 10 to 300 yards)?

7X64 is a .284 caliber, bullets weights are from 123 to 175 grains, bullets speeds are from 2600 to 3180 fps. Kinetic energy: from 2600 ft lbf to 3000 + ft lbf.

Max Pressure for that 92 years old non belted is 415 MPa (60,200 psi). It is basically a reduced 8X64 but had the European success the 8mm never met.

It is basically a 280 Remington or 7mm/30-06....It would be fine for elk, Moose, and Grizzly IMO...A little light for Brown Bear is the general concencess, however I would not hesitate to shoot an Alaskan brown with one with a proper 175 gr. bullet.

What Ray said. I'm on my second .280 Rem in a custom rifle. E

I acquired a 7x64mm when I bought 3 rifles out of a collection with the idea of selling or trading off 2 of them, whichever ones went first. I ended up letting go of a gorgeous 8x60mm with deep engraving of hunting scenes, but kept a pristine BRNO 22F fullstock with claw mounts and an older variable power scope. I love it. I bought dies, started trading loads with people here, and am trying to find one good load in 120, 140, 154, 160 and 175-gr bullets.

But now, I just bought a longer barrel 7x64mm for the heavier bullets, another Steyr M with 24-inch barrel. I am going to concentrate on the 120 BT and the 139 Interlock for the BRNO. I already have a good 160-gr load, which will be a starter with the Steyr.

There is not a huntable NA animal that i wouldnt hunt w/ a 7x64 and a nosler partition.

I owned one for a while and hunted both deer and elk with it. It was a semi-custom made on a Mauser action by a gunsmith in South Africa. I would not hesitate to use it on game up to Moose (=European elk) with a good premium bullet. I traded mine because it was relatively heavy and I hunt mostly in the mountains here in the U.S. and prefer lighter rifles, especially now that I am in my 60s...

Hello,

I have had a very, very nice Mannlicher-Shoenauer GK long rifle in 7x64. It came to me almost unfired, with a Hendsoldt Diavari 1,5-6x36 scope in a lateral pivot mount made by Gastinne-Renette (so marked) as good as the rifle and scope itself. I use it in 4 Red Deer with the 173 H-Mantle bullet, factory and with my loads. With the best factory loads, (always the RWSs for me) and the 173 H-M, or the 177 TIG, the velocities were around 2700 fps, and the effect on the big deer were impressive, as usual with these bullets. I think is a very good cartridge for big game, on par with the 30-06, 280 Rem or 270 Winch (with good and heavy bullets). In an insane moment I accept a very high offer and sold the rifle....!!!
Anyway, reloading for the 7x64, at least in that Mann.-Shoen. with 160 and 175 grs bullets, I never could get more than 100 fps than in the 7x57 Mauser 98 long throated I still have and use. With the same bullets in maximum SAFE loads. This fact and the better designed, as I see, 7x57 case, made me growth the respect I have for the latter.
Regards,

PH

The folks at www.accuratereloading.com used a Steyr M carbine as one of their 7x64mm test rifles and were disappointed with the velocities. I think I am going to shoot some Remington 175-gr factory ammo through the Steyr, then just neck size it and load up some 140, 154 and 160-gr bullets to test for muzzle velocity. From there, I will work on an accurate load for the 160-gr Sierra HP Gameking.

I have a Sako and a Brno ZG47,both seem to like 160 Partions and I plan to shoot a black Bear and another Boar or two.I would not hesitate to hunt Elk or any or the plains game with them.

I have definitely become a fan of the 7x64 Brenneke. So much so, that I am seriously looking at it for my next project. I am partial to the metric cartridges and what I really like about the 7x64 is that it has the history and pedigree that more readily available cartridges simply don't have. It remains very versatile and efficient, performance-wise. I'd certainly consider it plenty of gun for almost all African PG (except Eland and Giraffe) and would feel confident hunting Leopard with it as well.

i shoot the S&B 175 SPCE. its deadly.

Thank you for those perspectives, guys.

That caliber is a very popular all around cartridges around here, but with various results on game (I believe it is a very good killer but not always so easy to see when you've killed).

One fact is that recommanded / test barrel used by factory loaders are a bit long for practical use (25.6 inches) in dense wood driven hunting or mountain stalking. 22 inches are more convenient IMO but probably cause some velocity loss. No matter that, Stutzen versions (full stock) are still popular with 20 inches barrels.

I also noticed that some heavy bullets were barely impossible to shoot properly in shorter barrels. I had perfect accuracy with premimum 177 grainers RWS in my 22 inches barrel but was unable to perform anything that could be considered as a group, even at 50 yards, with Remington Core Lokt 175 grains.

175 grains NP sounds good to me but it seems it doesn't exist anymore in factory loads here, can't find Winchester's european metrics cartridges on their catalog anymore (they still offer 7X65r but no 7X64).

I concur!! I love my Sako AV 7x64...

The Norma factory loads in the 154-gr range (they have had several bullets from 150 to 156 grains) seem to work well in my BRNO, and are hot. That points me in the direction of the 154-gr Hornady, but I snagged a box of Sierra 160-gr HP Gamekings for $10.00 at a hardware store, and Andre' posted some good loads for his Sauer 202, so I am working on that.

GV,

I hunt with a drilling in 7x65R, which I'm sure you're also familiar. A slightly milder, rimmed version of the 7x64. I'd hunt anything in NA with it, no problem. While it wouldn't be my first choice for big bears(I'd rather use my 9.3x74R for heavy lifting!), I'm sure it would work. Great cartridge(s).

Jeff

I have both 7x64 and .30-06 bbls. for my Sauer 202. Both shoot as accurately (.5 MOA) and in terms of killing, I can't see any difference between them.

Hello grand_veneur,

I have had the same results as you with the 175 grs Core Lokt in that 7x64 M-Sch. But I can get very good accuracy with them in the 7x57, loaded at a longer than standard overall lenght.
My conclusion is: The Core Lokts 7 mm 175 grs are of the so called double diammeter bullets, the full diammeter is behind the cannelure. So, in the 7x64 the jump to the grooves is extremely long, agravated by the standard freebore of the european chambers. With the 7x57 in a Mauser 98 and a european chamber usually long throated, is possible to load it at 83 mm long so the problem is almost eliminated.
By the way, Did Gastinne-Renette still exist at Paris? I have a beautiful 12 ga side by side shotgun from them, made for my Greatgrandfather more than 100 years ago. Still in his original blue and in perfect working order...!!! The only marks in the barrels are : Gastinne-Renette A Paris, on top, and under the chambers : the nominal bore, 18,4 and Leopold Bernard -Cannonier a Paris.
I want to know more about this shotgun.
Regards,

PH

Patagonia,
Were you trying the Remington 175-gr factory loads that grouped so poorly, or a handload?

Have you tried seating the Remington bullet out a little further?

What loads have you found most accurate in your Steyr?

ringworm,
What rifle are you finding so accurate with your S&B 175-gr SPICE?

I wonder how much difference there is to the lands between the Sauer 202 and the Steyr M.

Andre that Sauer 202 is a good looking rifle. I looked at a few on their website, beautiful wood on the ones I saw. How hard is it to exchange the barrels?

Thanks for the explanation, patagoniahunter.

My group was larger than half a yard at 50 yards.

Was about sure not to be so bad so I asked the gunsmith to try himself so he would have believed it, and he had the same results.

About French gunmakers, you should ask Marseille or post a question in the European section.

I've worked in the North Sea oil patch for 3 decades, predominantly in Norway and Scotland. My "European rifle" is a Sako 691 in 7x64 I bought in Norway. It initially had a Zeiss 2.5-10 that was an unmitigated POS and now wears an S&B 6x42. I make no secret of being a total 7mm slut and this is a good one. The ballistic (and darn near case) twin of the .280 Remington dating back to I believe 1917. If this one had crossed the pond and caught on the .270 Winchester wouldn't have stood a chance! It's funny how much I read over here about the 6.5x55's use on Moose in Scandinavia, and it is popular, but I see lots more of the "serious" hunters over there, the guys who "live it" and go abroad such as to Africa, with the 7x64.

Having only small flats in Aberdeen, Oslo and Stavanger, thus limited to factory loads, I've used the factory Norma Oryx 156 at a stately 2750ish on moose, red and roe to excellent results over the years, but switched to the Norma 140 accubond at 2950ish some time back just cuz I've seen such excellent results in the 7 rem mag with 140s through the years. Since the switch have used it only in the UK, so no moose, but am thrilled on roe, red and muntjac...

Lee,

I used my handloads with RWS 7x64 cases and converted .280 Remington. I loaded them with R22 and IMR7828.
I loaded the longest the magazine of the Mannlicher-Shoenauer permited, about the same in a M98 Mauser. But even then, the distance of the groove diameter of the Core Lokt to the lands were too long, about 5 mm or more ! Perhaps this was not the reason. Who knows. But that M-Shoen. rifle was extremely accurate with RWS factory loads and handloads with 160 and 175 Speer Mag Tip, bullets constructed just the opposite of the Core Lokts: short bullets for the weight and the groove diameter closer to the tip. May be with a Rem 700 long action or one of a similar lenght, it can be loaded longer to match the long throat. But with the same bullets lot, I get very good accuracy, as I said, with the 7x57 in a standard M98 action and an overall cartridge lenght of 82 or 83 mm.This way, the jump to the lands is 1,5 mm in my rifle.

Regards,

PH

Thank you grand_veneur.
PH

Swapping bbbls. on a Sauer 202 takes about 5' : take off the forend, open rifle bolt, loosen 2 bolts to free and take out bbl. 1, insert bbl. 2, close rifle bolt, tighten the 2 retaining bolts, put back the forend, and voil�. All in all, a little longer than bbl. swapping with a Blaser R93. However and contrary to the latter, the receiver mounted scope (bbl. mounted on a Blaser) will have to be re-zeroed.

here's another switch barrel rifle.
it's a mauser model 66 in 7x64. it really likes 139 gr. btsp's over 55.5 grains of imr4350.

i have some factory 160 gr. npt's in federal clothes and some 160 speer gs's, but it likes neither.

Andr�, What's your load ?

Very nice rifle, and amazing mechanism. What do you think about that "telescopic" bolt ?

7x64 : 160 Sierra GK /N 160 / 56.0


.30-06 : 165 Sierra GK /N 160 / 60.5

Here's the Mauser 66S in 7x64 I located a few years ago for my son-in-law.

Apart from the silk smooth action, the telescoping bolt makes for a very short rifle even with a 26" bbl. ; same as with the Blaser R93 which is inspired by the former. The only problem with the Mauser 66 is that it came out too early ahead of its time and was quite expensive.

Thanks.

For brown bear, walrus,and bison, I'd want a 375H&H; for everything else,a 7x64 would be fine,like a 270, 280,7RM 30/06.So the cartridge is in good company.

But reports that it is so good, it would have supplanted the 270 if it made its' way over here, are humerous.It has had over 80 years to do so,and cannot come close from a popularity perspective.

What one will do, the other will do.There is no magic in .007 inch of bore diameter.

Lee,

If you have a picture of that 22F I would like to see it.
--------------------------------------------------------------

The 7-64 would have left no room for a 270 Win or a 280 Rem for that matter if some world war had not been started by Germany and been going on when the cartridge came out.

Here is a quick snapshot of my BRNO 7x64.

Those are sweet rifles.

Do the mounts have to be so high?

These mounts are about 1/2 inch higher than normal, because they have a hole through the mount so you can use the iron sights with the scope still on. Other ones are various heights for 1-inch and 30mm scopes with various sized objective ends, just like the rings here are.

They are the well refined German version of the Ironsighters,work very well...Most Brno's require high rings because of the high bolt lift.Cool gun1......rifle

Inexpensive way to get a 7x64:

http://e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=1138640

Bruce

I was ready to object to your statement however upon looking at the Brno 21h and 22f's that I have it seems as if my bolt handles may have been modified. However its possible that some later model had a bolt handle that would clear scopes easier.

Here is one and its not the same as others I see. Perhaps it has been modified?



Here are some other Brono's that may not be modified.

Brono's that may not have been modified?

The handle on the top picture now clears a very low scope. I don't think that the handle is weakened in any way. I like it so modified.

Perhaps Ray Atkinson will give his opinion.

Your handle has been modified. They made two different handles for the BRNO 21H type rifles. One was the spoon handle like pictured on Lee24's rifle. It has a long root and no inletting in the stock for the handle. The other was a very rare model that came from the factory with a ZG-47 trigger, bolt handle and safety. It's assumed by most that these were the end of the line guns of the 21-22 H/F production runs.

Terry

Hey Savage, I thought I had a picture of it. This is the other factory BRNO 21H handle. This rifle belongs to the very BRNO knowledgeable fla3006 over on AR.

Terry


BTW, I had to run spell check for: knowledgeable

TCI,

Thank you so much for the details. Is that picture of a 22/21 or a 47? The cocking piece is not like mine.
=========================================================

BRNO ZG-47 ?


Link

The one I posted is a 21H. The one you posted is my ZG-47 in 8X64.

Terry

Here is a picture of my 21H 7x64. I used it for an elk hunt last fall.


The RWS 177gr. TIG factory load seemed satisfactory when placed in the lungs of this heavy bull. I was very pleased!


Forgive me for turning this into a rifle discussion not a 7x64 discussion, but here's my question...I'd like to modify my rifle to use a low mounted scope. I have already purchased and installed Leupold QD low rings on the Meopta skeleton mount, by drilling and tapping the bottom of the studs. I have a Dakota mod 70 style safety on hand for it. But I need advice about the bolt handle. I think I'd like it cut off, repositioned, bent and inletted to allow lower scope mount. Or I could just buy a round ball straight shaft handle and install like the picture supplied by TC1. your opinions?

Before you chop up your BRNO bolt handle, have you tried another Mauser 98 bolt to see if it locks up with good headspace? There is a tiny bit of difference in head diameter, but if that works, replace the handle on the $25.00 bolt.

Here is one I had done recently by Mike McCabe . It's a BRNO 21H in 7X57. I had a ZG-47 safety installed and a Half Moon Rifle Shop Obendorf style handle. It'll clear the scope with Talley CZ rings. He also traded out the DST triggers for a Timney sportsman.

Installing the safety turned to be quite a job. I bought it from ForrestB. Lucky for me too. Come to find out the safety cams off the firing pin on a ZG-47 and not the cocking piece like on every other M98 I've ever seen. Forrest was very accomidating and traded firing pins with me after the deal was made.

Every 21H I've ever bought has been butchered on so I don't have any problem having them customized to fit my tastes.

Terry

castnblast,

Nice elk. Good for you.

Lee24 has an idea to put a mauser bolt in there and save the original.

To be frank I like my modified bolt handle a lot. It clears the low mounted Kahles 2-7AH's large eyepiece just fine as modified. The M70 type safety completes the package.

A European named cartridge was not going to take off here, but I think the point was, had it been introduced in 1917 (or anytime before the .270 Win) here and renamed/adopted by an American manufacturer, the .270 Win would probably be in the shoes of the .280 Rem and the Americanized 7x64 would be the dominant American cartridge.

Would the 7x64 and the .270 Winnie have been competitors ?

Yes they would have. The only thing is the 270 was promoted by a very well thought of gun writer so I'm not sure it would have faired to well.

I've always wanted a 7X64. Oneday I may have the BRNO 21h pictured above punched out to one, but I've always had soft spot for the European cartridges. Right now I've got a 9.3X62, 8X64 and 3 7X57's.

Terry

My BRNO 22 with bolt open to compare with the other ones.

The safety on Castnblast's BRNO looks like a Buehler.
The Paul Jaeger safety is very similar, just a little more sweep.

TC1,
What kind of front and rear iron sights are those on your rifle?

I shot a single moose with my 280 and a 140gr bullet. It worked very well.

Just a few 7x64 kills (all from driven hunts) for you all ol' 7mm Brenneke fans.

Those were shot when galopping from 30 to 40 yards away from me. Factory load: RWS Evo, 160 grains (You can't rely on its weight retention properties, it works mostly without exit hole but it seems it works). Rifle is my old Browning European Pirsch (22' barrel).

Hind (265 lbs without its insides)- falled in its tracks and the biggest critter I ever fired at:



I had to eat a piece from its liver and was washed with its insides ...



Little wild boar bull (200 lbs without its insides) - ran about 250 yards away then we heard it falling and render its last breath.



I brought him with me to have beer at my wife's Basket Ball Club



This is the bullet we recovered between two ribs. No bone hitted but the bullet lost 50 % of its mass.



127 lbs sow.



The same day I shot the little bull on the right but the one that butchered it claimed te trophy (we fired at the same time, I'm sure I performed a neck shot but he claimed it was the exit hole from his 270 winnie).

[img]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3699/dsc01220e.jpg[/img]

I'm not a lucky hunter, most of the time the game won't come to my spot but this show a bit of the 7mm's killing power.

What ammunition were you using in your 7x64?

RWS Factory loads: 160 grains EVO bullet.

Thanks for sharing the picture of the remains of the RWS EVO bullet. I really am not impressed by a "high tech bonded" bullet that has just 50% of retained weight and no exit hole even when no bones were hit. If I were you, I would switch to the old fashioned RWS TIG or find someone who can reload your ammo with 175 grain Partitions. In my opinion, especially when you hunt in "battue" you need 2 holes in the animal to give you as much blood as possible to trace the animal.

You're right but I have to admit that except one roe deer I've hitted two times (at wrong places) which had two exit holes, any critter I fired at, during driven hunts, with the Evo didn't need more than one bullet to die.

I'm going to try the Norma Vulkan 170 grains next season but I keep the 7x64 as a "light rifle". If I need more punch, where or when boars and red stags are the main games, I'll take the .375. With that one, I'll have exit holes ...

BTW Welcome to the fire.


Ooops the little boar bull is a 147 lbs critter, not 200 ... Unit conversion mistake, sorry.