Just kidding. What a bunch of craaaaaaap......

You're gonna give Swampy a damn heart attack!

Sam, how 'bout that 700 your buddy Swampy hooked you up with...
Bolt handle present and accounted for???

Ingwe

Lemme go check...Yep still there.

I love that ugly rattle canned bastid!

How much boot did you give?

I've got a 700 in .223 thats on its third barrel, and second stock, and I keep trying to tear the bolt handle off cranking it at gophers, PDs Speed goats etc...
No luck so far...
( Swampy would love to hear that...)
Ingwe

Broke a toe!


I'm gonna load up some super hot test rounds to see how much crankin' she can withstand.

I'll drink to our toe!

Cheers!

Back in 1973 I jumped a pretty good WT buck and got off a shot from 30 yards or so . He turned and I got a second shot off . He went down in some tall grass and I was keeping my eye on the spot and trying to chamber another round in my Rem 722 in .308 win . Something was strange .

I looked down and had no bolt handle ! And I couldn't remember if I had chambered the third round , or not . I finally found the buck in the tall grass but couldn't find the bolt handle .

I was afraid to try to fire the rifle with no bolt handle , so I handled it VERY gently until I could get it to a gunsmith . He silver soldered a bolt handle from a 700 on which gave it sort of a custom look .

A few years ago I shot the barrel out and had a Pac Nor in 22 250 AI put on it . It still has the 700 bolt handle plus a 700 safety and trigger .

its cause you bought it at Wal-Mart! All of them at Wal-Mart are made in Wuxi China.

I've got a 260 Mountain Rifle with a hairline seperation on the bolt handle/body. If it ever comes off, I will sell all my Remingtons and buy Savages.








Nahh.......

Well, after he fixed he bolt, did you go back and kill the buck? Can't leave us on the edge of our chair.....grin

Most of the bolts that come off have help from a hot handload and a 2X4.

Most bolts that come off do so in the first few rounds out of the box, from faulty soldering. It happens.

Perhaps true. I'm thinking it's more likely that you'd have a hard time doing it even then if it was properly brazed in the first place. Silver brazing is incredibly strong when done correctly, probably why Remington chose to use that in the original design. When it isn't done right there isn't much that will keep it on there other than lack of use.

I suppose when you produce close to 4 million complex devices for a price the public loves, an occasional failure is possible.

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/books/M700LacyBook

precisely so...
millions and millions served, and so forth....

Ain't much out there more simple than a bolt action rifle. That it's complex to you isn't surprising.

As it turns out , I'm pretty sure I killed him with the first shot as he jumped up almost under my feet and ran away at an angle . In instant replay , it seems as though I had no hair in my scope at the second shot , so I think he was falling then .

It took me about 20 minutes or so to find him in the sage grass . I was hunting about half a mile from my house so I went back a few times to try and find the bolt handle . Never did .

FWIW , the buck was pretty nice for our country at that time .Only an 8 point with only a 14 inch spread but when a friend scored him years later he has a gross of 110 4/8 and net typical of 110 so it is a very symetrical rack . I sawed of the rack and still have it even though I've discarded lots of higher scoring 8 points since then .

The rifle ? I traded a friend out of it . He bought it new sometime in the fifties . He didn't handload and was "tight as hell" so it probably hadn't been shot a lot when I got it . It was the only C.F. rifle I had and I DID roll my own so in the eight or so years I had it prior to the incident , it saw a lot of shooting .

Herter dies and Lee "dipper " powder measures resulted in a few inconsistent loads , I'm sure , but I never had to hammer the bolt open .

BTW ,I'm a big REM fan , and I have hammered a few bolts open on 700's since then with no more bolt failures .

Now , I'm goin' fishin for a couple days .

Mr Swampman ; Mighty white of you to allow that what I said happened COULD happen !

LMAO!

I was the one in a million......Big Green lost my Green after that.......Would not wish this headache on anyone, always a pain when your gear goes out of commission, and the time/trouble/money to get it corrected.

I like one piece bolts....and custom's next when it comes to sheer reliability. As to a bolt action simplicity, what better way than to use a forged block of steel for the body AND handle.

Ltppowell: You just trying to stir things up huh?
I was all ready to take you to task and give you a sound cyber-thrashing and you are just "funnin" or trolling for trouble.
Sheesh!
Long live Big Green!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Most one piece bolts are cast steel. No thanks!

The accuracy of the 700 is so far ahead of the next best thing, I'll take my chances.

A well cast part made from the appropriate grade of steel can be quite strong. 17-4 pH, 4140 and 4340 are stout stuff.

Rugers are cast, also known to be damn strong....

Don't see S&W loads for 45 Colt+P in manuals...

That (and the work required to get them to shoot) is why I won't own another one.

Forged steel is better.

I'll bet frying an egg is tough on you.

My brother had a bolt handle come off his Remington 788 back in the mid '70's. He took it right in the front door at Remington in Ilion and they fitted a new bolt to the rifle while he waited.

Strength/durability is the product of a pretty complicated equation that factors in material, design, craftsmanship and quality control. Some seem to get it all right more often than others.

Have several Remington 700's. Never a problem.

However... I recently did some investigating when I had a chance to pick up a SW 1500 (Howa 1500) barreled action in 308 win.

The Howa 1500's bolt and handle is a one piece forged unit. The Howa 1500 action, also forged (not cast), has a nice flat bottom with integral recoil lug too (great for bedding). If the handle breaks off a Howa 1500, you have some 'splaining to do.

I bought the barreled action. I am impressed with the quality and design of the Howa 1500 system. Smooth as silk operation. I'm waiting for a Boyds JRS laminate stock to arrive.

link added July 19, 2009
http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa/howa_baractions.html

How do you know it's forged?

Because it says so in their catalog. Copied and pasted from the Legacy Sports website:

Well, that makes it a fact. Any unbiased sources?

Me

Irony check!

Last summer I saw a bolt handle come off one of the 770s...it was not very impressive...

Bob

I like my M700 but it is nowhere near the rifle my M98 mausers are. The M700 series make good varmint rifles but not for real hunting where important things happen. Frying eggs, nah make it taters or boiling water.

I'm curious where the exceptional skepticism springs from? How many times have we read ads that claimed "forged" when it was cast, or "cast" when it was machined from billet? Sure, the ad writers take liberties with such things which cannot be readily or objectively measured such as "best looking" or "none stronger", but it would take a fool to intentionally write false details of import which can easily be measured.

I've got some Remingtons I trust, others which I don't - based on certain issues I've had with them. I've got several Rugers which can be trusted for their dependability - and I've never even benched them for groups, but they sure hunt well. Go figure.

I know of two rifles that have lost bolt handles, one a Remington 700 and the other a Tikka, although the Tikka had suffered some sort of "explosion" that also caused one of the bolt lugs to sheer off..

With regards the Remington, variations of those have been the issue sniper rifle for the US Army and the US Marines since the 1960's, so If there was anything majorly wrong, one of those outfits would have found it....

Then you shouldn't be hunting with them. How can you hunt with a rifle that's not sighted in?

Swampman700, I wish you continued success using 700s, we all have varied experiences, was sharing mine. No insult to those who use something different than what I choose.

It is a rare experience, and yes likely millions of rifles mfg/sold/used and however few, hundreds perhaps, maybe thousands....I don't know. I do know, I don't want to chance it ever again, based upon MY experience. FWIW, I have owned/used MANY 700s, a few 7s, and 600s, and had hit/miss quality in a 50/50 ratio, various defects, the bolt breakage the most disastrous.

As to Howa, they are very well mfg. products in my experience, and it's sad to say better finished than many USA made products. Remington's are not completely junk, but they are not the end all, even though many who have had complete success swear by them.

To my way of thinking, Sako pre-garcia's left a precendent in mass mfg. rifle quality.

As to accuracy, I have had good and bad Remingtons and Winchesters, had solid results with Howa and Sako, and Ruger, my last 3 Ruger's were falling block #1's which all shot sub MOA out the box, plenty good for the deer sized game those rifles were intended for in the 243s and 25/06 I had, one shot 3/8" with handloads. Nothing to sneeze at, and a 77 in '06 also was a solid MOA rifle, and it was a later MK2, so the bbls as you may know are now mfg. in house, hammer forged IIRC, just like Rems, and I can tell you, they were all smooth and consistent pushing a patch thru as my Sako's and Howa's.

Accurate rifles DO come in other brands than Rem, and likely fit their owners better i.e. a Ruger 77 Stock fits me like a glove, vs others on the market, and that accounts for alot away from the bench. I challenge REM only users to open their mind to giving other brands a try and learn for yourself just how well other rifles DO shoot, even had a Browning abolt micro medallion shoot next to my Rem varmint rifle, and both in same 7/08 caliber. Granted it was good for 3 shots, again fine for its purpose.

Back to the bolt durability issue, I never once heard of a Sako or Winchester, M-98, Howa or Ruger for that matter break. Not so with Rems if you listen to others. Murphy's law, however common or not, and related to design IMHO. I did speak to one un named CUSTOM mfg. and they admit about 1 a year come back, brazing comes apart, they repair it. Not a big problem for a bench shooter or varmint hunter. ON dangerous game, the buyer and user must decide what level of confidence they have in their equipment, and are they willing to accept the worst case scenario should one have that place out.

FWIW, there was once a day when Rems were the mainstay of what I owned in centerfires but today, I have only one because I promised not to sell it to the man who had cancer and passed it on to my son.

I enjoy others and wish all the best in whatever others choose to use.

65Br,

Doesn't anybody make a replacement bolt with a one piece handle for the Remingtons?

To be honest, I've never owned a Remington or a Winchester, as the build quality of those I've seen over here has always been a bit suspect. For instance, in the early 1990's, a local gunshop had a batch of Remingtons in that had no rifling for the last 4" of the barrel...Also the triggers on most Remchesters tended to be pretty aweful..

Add to that the price over here is a lot higher that you guys pay, so the European brands often look a lot better buys..

So I've ended up buying Sako, CZ's, Howa and a Ruger...I can quite believe that the todays Remingtons are a lot better and I am really keen to see the new Winchesters now FN are in he driving seat...

Regards,

Peter

To your point Peter, alot of the problem 700s I had were mfg. in very late 80s and thru 90s. CZ I left out but are well regarded also. I can imagine that perhaps QC is improved in Rems, I do wonder about the newer triggers on the FNs M70s, the old ones were very tunable and reliable. Rugers simply need honing/spring mod or replacement with custom.

The last rifle I built was amazingly accurate for me, a Stiller action, Bartlein bbl, 6mmBR, it shot the first 3 shots CONSISTENTLY into 1/4" at 200 yds, whether 66-70 grains, 105 amaxs, etc. It had a Jewell trigger.

Good shooting Peter.

Once you do a custom action rifle, and compare to a factory in all regards inc. resale, it's easy to see the value and rationale for building custom IMHO. I think Sako makes a great rifle, but the price point is getting cost prohibitive for most buyers. The Tikka's are much better priced, with some cost savings in the mfg. process, but they usually shoot very well, also having Sako bbls.

I believe 1 pc 700 handles are mfg. IIRC but not sure, there are several smiths who will drill and tap 'insurance screws' and I wonder if the armory for the military does any mods, as I believe I read the Sniper 700/M40s have 8-40 screws upgraded at the armory. Not sure if any additional work is done on the brazing or more critical QC is done. Having said rifle fail in combat would be disheartening to say the least.

When I look at overall costs, I have ZERO doubt, the top rifles, whether custom or mass produced will shoot with the first decent load tried. I have had others that you can wasted not only a good bit of money, but time reloading and range time, let alone gas getting there, so 100-200 bucks or more can be spent in finding good loads and/or tweaking from the factory. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes unlucky. I think Rem has a great platform and the POTENTIAL accuracy is very good assuming good QC is maintained in ALL steps of MFG, but the bean counters have not ensured that, so like cars on a production line, some brands simply have tighter QC.

The FN rifles I have yet to experience, but can imagine they are more consistent, I hope or they may be doomed. Winchester mfg. some good rifles I bought in the early-mid 90s, but I also had a few not so good, such as a Coyote 223 with botched rifling the last few inches of bbl, visible to the eye, and very poor grouping, often 2-3" at 100 yds, very poor.

Excuse me! I never said anything about not sighting in. Your assumptions are as glaring as your apparent lack of experience.



399 yards. And I still have no idea what size groups it shoots. (I don't recall ever shooting paper with the rifle used on that hunt.)


Oh, and BTW, before you ever fly again, remember this, the engines which carry you skyward use combinations of parts which are machined, forged, and cast. There is nothing wrong with any of those processes.

Sighting in and going hunting, another tough concept.

amazing how helpless some are in the absence of a shooting bench...
and to be so presumptive of others... well???

The 700 makes a fine deer/varmint rifle, but for anything else, give me a big ole claw extractor.

Have to giggle at the fanboys, loyal against all logic or reasoning.

You can keep your push feed woodchuck guns.

My rem clone (Stiller) has a screw through the bolt handle...insurance I suppose

please

Based on that logic why do use REmington 700's?

Perhaps the bolt head, the locking lugs, are forged. (It's quite possible that the three-piece Remington bolt uses a machined billet body, a forged -and machined head, and a cast handle. The handle is very probably a casting judging from the marks on it.)

Amazing. Apparently our friend Swampman hasn't shot a Ruger for almost 20 years, since they started making their own barrels. I have owned at least 15 Rugers made since then (abut 2/3 77's) and have found them just as easy to get to shoot as the average 700. If either doesn't shoot out of the box, then I free-float the barrel and they're good to go.

Of course, Swampman is the same guy who has told us all about New Ultra Light Arms rifles without, apparently, ever shooting one.

Yep, M40A1's and M40A3's have plain ole Rem 700 bolts. Another telling thread...

[img:left][/img]

Don't have a clue about the M40 but the M24 is the basic remington bolt. I'm pretty sure for the price Remington's QC is going to better than a basic sps.

Oh I don't know, my 70s seem to shoot "good enough": Target And I don't have to worry about glued on bolt handles, sheet metal extractors and fail on fire safeties. My 416 shoots about the same...jorge

Oh my your adding more fuel to this fire your going to upset Swampman