i don't have any real experience with either of these calibers, and i am curious about the recoil differnce. I am very familiar with the .308 & .30-06.

I both are based on the .308 case.

the rifle in question for these chambereings is the Howa youth rifle package:
http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa/howa_youth2n1.html

I'm going to look up some charts on felt recoil later when i have more time.

Rifle would be for deer, used by a young hunter &/or smallish woman.

Thanks,
DW

Lighter bullets mean less recoil, with relatively similar velocity. .243 will kick less, in other words. Neither one kick very much, and if the rifle fits decently shouldn't be a problem.

Personally, I would never buy a .243 -- it's a cartridge falling in the middle between varmint cartridges and big game cartridges and not being particularly good for shooting either.

If the 7-08 kicks a bit much to start with, use lighter bullets and -- best plan -- download them a bit. Knocking a couple of hundred feet per second off will reduce recoil, but won't make a difference with game under 200 yards or so.

Dennis

As for the 243 not being a good varmint cartridge I would beg to differ. In a heavy rifle not much will keep up with one when the wind picks up shooting PD's with the heavier varmint bullets. The 7mm-08 would make a much bettter big game round though and recoil is pretty mild.

I'd get the 7mm-08 and start out with Remington's Managed Recoil load.* It's a 140gr bullet that's moving about 500fps slower than the standard load. For comparison the MR's 140 grainer is listed at 90fps slower than their 150gr 30-30 load.

The advantage of this path is that as a deer rifle the 7-08 has a lot more upside to it than the .243 IMO. With a little time the standard loads (hardly brutes) could very likely come into play.

*If you or someone you trust handloads it's hardly even a question.

I've always found recoil to be ridiculously subjective. I personally find that my 788 .243 kicks more than my 700 MR 7x57. Maybe the louder muzzle blast from the short barrel tricks me into thinking it's kicking harder? I don't know.

My Dad bought me the .243 when I was 12, so I could have a soft-shooting deer gun. If I were to do it for my own sons, I think I'd find a rifle that fit my kid really well, & start at .25-06 or .260.

FC

I think the recoil of a 7mm-08 is quite mild, and I'm one that doesn't much like recoil!

My 7mm-08 is a M700 in a Brown Precision "pounder" stock, so it's fairly lightweight, and you might think it would kick harder because of that. But the stock design, etc help a lot.

I've shot it prone with 140's and not been bothered.

I also shoot a 243. For "practical" purposes, there's really not enough difference to matter, regardless of what the recoil charts might say.

I was planning on getting my son a 7-08 for his first hunting rifle for his 12th birthday. But the only youth model we found locally that he liked was the rem 700 chambered in the .243.



He's shot loads with 75, 85, 100 and 105 gr bullets, all loads are full throttle, not reduced. He's gotten fairly accurate with the rifle and will go through over 50 rounds at a range session. The recoil doesn't seem to bother him, but man from the 20" barrel I don't care to be shooting next to him as the muzzle blast is something else.

His hunting load is a barnes 85 gr tsx, and about the critters I'd want him to consider more gun for are moose and grizzly bears.

Still I think the 7-08 is a better overall round for big game hunting, and recoil isn't that much more than the .243.

Equally important to the gun you choose is a good scope with sufficient eye relief.

in my experience the 7-08 with normal loads is too much of a good thing for many who are truly recoil sensitive...

for some, even the recoil of a .243 is bothersome, but most can learn to shoot it in a normal weight rifle with proper hearing protection...

i have actually enjoyed using the .243 for most of my hunting over many years... in the early 1970s, when i first started hunting seriously, the .25-06 was a little known newcomer... the .257 BOB was listed in the back of lymans loading manual as obsolete...
the .243 was THE dual use cartridge... it has never let me down on critters from prairie dogs to black bear... for deer and coyotes it is an ideal cartridge...

recoil is a very subjective thing... a neighbors 14 yr old son who is slightly built loves my new 25-06... my 13 yr old who outweighs the neighbors son by 25 lbs thinks that the 25-06 is a little too much for fun shooting...
he's shot enough rifles to know what he likes... i intend to keep him in the fun zone.....

Show me a deer that the .243 with 100g NP or 85g TSX is marginal.

I just bought a youth Remmy SPS in a 7/08 for my 11 year old daughter. Been shooting it a bunch lately (as recently as today) working up loads with lighter bullets (120's). Been shooting it side-by-side with a 25-06 flingin' 110's. I don't feel much difference between the two and feel very confident my 11 year old will do just fine with the 7/08.

Dennis wasn't it you who wrote "the only people who seem to have a hard time killing deer with the .243 are gunwriters" or was that someone else?

Personally I find little recoil difference between a 100 gr .243 load and a 120 TSX for my 7-08.

I think the best tact is, start em with a .243, supply them enough ammo to burn out the barrel and hence perfect their shooting skills, then re-barrel to a 7-08.

Best yet is to start them with a .223, then get them a 7-08.

Dennis, shame on you. He wants to kill deer. THERE AINT A DEER ON THIS PLANET THAT A .243 CAN'T KILL!

a guy on another site, who goes by flintlock, once said "ok if the .243 doesn't work on deer, let's go to a fenced in deer farm and you give me $100 for every deer i kill with a shot through the lungs with my .243 and i will pay you $1000 for every one that DOESN'T die."

i know its not that simple sometimes but i got his point.

Adding a recoil suppressor under the recoil pad for range sessions makes a really light rifle in 7-08 fun to shoot...

Worked out the recoil figures for similar weight .243s and 7-08s, the difference is 8.8 vs 12.6

50% difference, which is substantial. You might want to start him with a .22 centerfire and work up from there.

If it were my son and he was not really small, Id probably go with the 7-08, its more versatile than th .243. to me the .243 is more a gun for experienced hunters, people who dont go into cardiac arrest every time they get a deer in the crosshairs.

The .243 will kill deer just fine IF the shot is well placed and centered throught the heart lung area. If you will be with him on the hunt then the .243 will work fine with you coaching him Im sure.

Its probably not the best cartridge for what Keith called "raking shots" though I have heard, but not experienced that the TSX will penetrate very deeply.

Regardless either will work, with the 7-08 you get a LOT more bullet weight and dont have to use expensive bullets, typical cup and core jobbies work great at these velocities.

For practice just load them down a bit using faster powder and light bullets.

Im a skinny guy and for a long time recoil didnt bother me much, up through .338 but as I get older im not liking it that much...am starting to caliber down a bit.

Just my two cents...

If a prospective hunter is scared of his gun he or she will NOT do well and will NOT enjoy it.

The whole point is to enjoy the experience not be macho man.

When I found out what a little .260 would do to pretty large hogs a light went on and I started asking myself why I abused my shoulder for so many years with magnums.

If you handload, FWIW.

I load my daughter's 7-08 to 2700fps with 'softer' 120's like the Hornady or Sierras.

Works great on both ends.

She definitely takes notice of the Rem 700 Mountain Rifle with 120s when loaded to 3100fps...

I think that rifle fit is more important than the actual recoil levels. Fit is even more important for a person of smaller stature. I have both 243's and a 7mm-08. The 243's are a heavy older model 70 and a light weight Mauser, the 7mm-08 is a Remington model 7 youth. The Winchester and the Remington are my wifes rifles. As the Remington fits her perfectley she feels that the recoil is less than with the Winchester which is a normal sized rifle with a cutdown stock. When I shoot them, the 7mm-08 has more felt recoil to me, but the Remington does not fit me well at all. If the rifle fits the shooter the recoil will not be felt anywhere near as much as with a poorley fiting rifle. Get a rifle tht fits well, rather than a caliber that is supposed to be easy on recoil.

DMW,

I have no negative opinion on the .243 but I'll be loading a 7mm-08 for my son next year. With 120's and loads customized to him, recoil will be no problemo. The other reason I choose the 7-08 is as he grows and gains more experience I'll be able to cook up better loads with 140's & 150's and (IMHO) a better suited round for general big game.

Chris

I can pretty safely guarantee you that I never made the comment -- I suspect it was My Other Brother Darrell (Mule Deer), as it sounds a lot like him. The simple fact is that I don't like .243's, and don't really care much whether other people do or don't. If you, or anyone else, wants to hunt with one, then go for it. But anyone who asks my opinion will continue to hear why I don't like them. Whether they want to believe me or believe someone else's opinion is also of no concern to me.

I am, however, slightly annoyed that people without a clue as to what I did or didn't say seem to feel free to accuse me of something I didn't do, and want to pile "shame" on me. Figure reality out first, fellas...

Dennis

Jeeze. OK, my mistake, sorry for the mixup. That's why I asked if it was you. No reason to get the undies bunched over an opinion from either of us.

That's why I'm only slightly annoyed...

Dennis

My mistake. I apologise for the mix up.

As for Darrel...