How does a 270WSM compare with an 06 as far as recoil goes? I shoot a model 70 featherweight 30-06 and can't stop flinching. I know i need to start with shooting more to get more used to the gun/recoil and maybe even change the recoil pad, but i can't seem to get the rifle to shoot consistently anyway. i'd like to add a 270 or 270 wsm to my cabinet. But, i don't really want to add something that i'll flinch with also.
let's assume basically the same model gun in either caliber for a straight comparison.
any thoughts? thanks in advance

For a straight comparison, we should compare like bullet weights also. Let's say 150 grains(3100 in 270 WSM(65 gr powder) vs 3000 in .30-06(59 gr powder), I came up with 20 ft lbs versus 18 ft. lbs in 8 pound rifles.
So yes, the .270 WSM will recoil more. Now, I'm not someone that would ever dissuade you from buying another rifle, but I think it's more important for your to solve your flinching problem. And I don't know how to help you with that, maybe someone else has advice there.

I have shot a FW 30-06 and a A-bolt 270 wsm. The wsm kicks a tad more, almost similar. If it isn't a pre-64 FW, add on a limbsaver recoil pad, it'll tame the lion down.

If you're flinching with 30-06 recoil, may I recommend something like a 243, 260 or 25-06? They'll kill any deer just as dead as a 270 WSM, and the recoil is SO much less.

thanks so far-
with what i've read around different posts, the 270wsm is very close to the same recoil as the 3006. probably need to look at straight 270. I know if i got a little heavier gun it would reduce some of the felt recoil also.
I'd like a gun that is capable of shooting very accurately (who doesn't!) and is more manageable for me. Also, maybe my trouble this past week sighting in my '06 is that I have some 180 grain soft points i was using. I put a new scope on my gun & so I needed to do a little more shooting. I usually shoot 168's hunting, but didn't have enough of those to use to just get my scope on target - and the 180's were cheap wallyworld ammo.
probably still strongly considering a new 270 or maybe a little heavier gun in 270WSM (maybe). i shoot here in Nebraska and some in western KS (shots anywhere up to 400 yds not uncommon).

Are you a reloader??? If so, reduce your loads a little.

To help reduce the recoil jump into your shoulder try using this method.

When shooting my two `lil puddycats, I put my non-trigger hand (palm) on top of the scope using "some" downward pressure along with my elbow resting on the bench. That technique will help reduce the felt recoil to your shoulder and reduce the backward jump.

I use the Limbsaver (slip on) recoil pad too.

There are nice shooting vests that you can buy that have shoulder padding sewn in.

Last resort would be to get a lead (pussy) sled.

Dry fire it several times making sure to hold the reticle on bullseye when the hammer drops. Then quickly load and shoot using the exact same technique. Get some reduced recoil loads for practice. I've heard they shoot pretty well too.

I've shot both but not in identical firearms. My '06 is a sporter M700, and the 270 WSM was a sporter A-Bolt.

The 270 WSM has a little more "pop" to it. Neither is a hard kicker. Modern recoil pads are wonderful; have a smith put a Limbsaver on the 30-06 and you'll be all set!

If I was going to just put together two rifles as a package, I wouldn't go 30-06/270 WSM (or .270 Win). They are too close in performance. I'd either step up to a 338 Win Mag, or down to a 7mm-08. Just me. In your case a 7mm-08 makes all kinds of sense. It's both a relatively mild kicker, and a great performer on game, and is usable all the way up to elk.

If you want a noticeable difference in recoil, I think you need to drop all the way down to 25-06. Of course everything that people are telling you about the other variables (weight, recoil pad, stock design, etc.) is true. But once you get down to 100 gr bullets in cartridges like the .25-06 or .260, then things get mo betta.

I also assume you are wearing good ear protection; if not, that is the quick route to a flinch.

I'd concur that you need to drop well down to get rid of that flinch.

In open country like Neb. and Kansas, I'd be running a 243.

I can't address your question directly since I don't own nor shoot a .30-06. I do know that my Kimber, .270 WSM has a bit of recoil though. Since recoil bothers you, I would suggest a PAST Recoil pad and if you're a handloader, maybe loading down some of your loads. Reduce them to safe levels I might add. I use a PAST when shooting my .338 Mag. from the bench and it makes a world of difference. And practice, practice, practice. Just a suggestion.
Bear in Fairbanks

I have had a Montana in both. The 30/06 with 150/165's vs. the 270WSM with 140's is REALLY close. Move up to 180's in the -06 and the WSM is a tad easier on the shoulder.

I agree with the others, go to a 7-08, 260, 243, etc. FWIW, I have a 84M in 257 Roberts that is a sweetheart to shoot, and whacks 'em hard on the receiving end with 100 grain TSX's.

270 WSM and '06 are very similar, feels about like a 7 RM.
Drop down to a regular 270 Win and it is noticable.
A 25-06 recoil is getting to feel really light.

A LimbSaver pad is a tremendous product.

Real simple. Have a friend at the range do the ball&dummy exercise with you. Turn your back while your partner either loads the rifle or closes the bolt on an empty chamber. Without cheatin (checking to see if the chamber is empty) fire the rifle.

Even better using a third person to video tape the session...


A good stock with either a Limbsaver or a Decelerator pad goes a long way towards reducing felt recoil.

OK,
thanks for the input. How about I change the comparison:

3006 featherweight (7# gun)with 180gr bullet (factory softpoint)
vs.
270WSM in 7.5# gun with factory 140-150 gr loads.
same scope both guns.
compare recoil?
thanks.

Play around with any of the recoil calculators that you can find on the web and come up with your own conclusions:
Recoil calculator

I think you are going to find that they are within 10-15% of one another, which would be indistinguisable (and dwarfed by other variables) in the field.

I've got a Rem. in 06' and a Win. in 270WSM both about the same weight guns. With 150gr. Fusion in the WSM and 165gr. in the 06' the recoil is very slightly more than the 06'.

It's probably 20% more then my Rem. 270 Win. shooting 130gr. ammo. Hope this helps----all subjective.

You might consider a 270 Win.,light kicking and far reaching. It's been a dandy caliber for me over the years.

270

Unless you are comparing them in the same model and stock configuration, the recoil tables don't tell you much. I found the recoil of a 7mm WSM in the New Haven Model 70 factory stock considerably sharper than an '06. However, I have a Kimber Classic in .270 WSM that is comfortable to shoot, even with full house 150 grain loads, and it weighs at least two pounds less. Stock design and fit is a key variable in all of this. Among the aftermarket stocks, the Pacific Research/Rimrock stocks do the best job of mitigating recoil for me...FWIW.

I agree with the recommendation of ECD's (Empty Chamber Drills), highly effective tool for calming yourself down and focusing on the basics like breathing and trigger control. It's mostly mental and the drill will assist you in slowing everything down and not prepping your body for what it believes is a sure jolt. Also, dropping down to a lighter caliber or at least having one in your arsenal to practice with is never a bad idea.

There are two ways to approach this.
1. Yes the 30-06 in a Win. Fwt. does have noticeable recoil.
I haven't read if you are a handloader or not. I'm assuming, not. You can begin with dry firing drills to build confidence on sight alignment thru the scope and trigger control. After that shows good improvement, at the range, perform the live chamber/dummy chamber drill with MANAGED RECOIL LOADS. Still maintaining sight/scope alignment and trigger control. No anticipation of the shot!
If you ARE a handloader or have access to a reliable buddy, you can do the same with reduced loads and cheap 150gr bullets.
Than work up as improvement is shown.
Also get a PAST recoil reducer to wear.
Don't overlook the .22 rifle as a good starting point to build your confidence.

2. The more spendy solution is to do the same thing only with a lesser caliber, such as a .243.
By the way, I believe there still is merit in a .270Win.. You can buy reduced recoil loads or handload them. The .270Win is a 130gr does have less recoil than a 180gr in a 30-06. If you can rid yourself of the flinches with light loads from a .270Win., I believe you will have a nice two gun combo with it and the '06. Or, you may come to conclude that the '06 and its recoil really isn't needed once the .270Win is mastered.
Good luck.

Agree with what many others are saying...a 270WSM is not a real step down from a 30/06 in terms of recoil.

Notwithstanding some of the innuendo's about it that are tossed around today,a 270 Winchester is a completely sufficient 400 yard rifle, if you're a 400 yard rifleman.It has been that way since 1925.

The .25-06 with a 120 gr. bullet will recoil and blast more than the 7mm-08 with the same weight bullet.

I just did a comparison between .25-06 with the 100 gr. bullet and the 7mm-08 with a 120, 8 lb rifle:

.25-06: 100 gr. bullet, 3212 FPS, 59.7 gr. H-1000, 2.48 lbs-sec of recoil
7mm-08: 120 gr. bullet, 3039 FPS, 50 gr. H-4350, 2.51 lbs-sec of recoil

I'd go 7mm-08 in a heartbeat, for the bigger hole and the ability to go all the way up to 140-150 gr. bullets if needed. It'll do just fine out to 400 yards. (Also you get a little lighter, handier rifle with the short action, and less muzzle blast.)

Mark, the 30-06 is a lot of gun, popular notions to the contrary. I'd also add, for me and my build, all factory M70 stocks recoil hard.

Also, for me and my physique, the 270 WSM Montana recoils much more comfortably than any M70 Fwt 30-06. Yes, I've had both. It surprising how well the Montana stock handles recoil. In fact, my 300 WSM Montana is more comfortable to shoot than any of the five 30-06 M70 Fwt's I've owned, including those stocked in McMillan and Banser stocks and weighing more. Go figure. The Montana 300 has a fair bit of muzzle jump, but is more comfortable.

But M70's are cooler.

Stock design is often more important to perceived recoil than cartridge, within reason, which is why the Kimbers feel like they recoil less than their recoil numbers would predict.

However, I'd still drop down in cartridge, not go the opposite direction. I think Bob's advice about the 270 is spot on, and also the 308 Win is a heck of a BG round.

Two more quick data points, from the same calculator, both for the .30-06:

150 gr., 3068 FPS, 62 gr powder: 3.14 lb-sec recoil
180 gr., 2798 FPS, 57.5 gr powder: 3.25 lb-sec recoil

So, the 120 gr. 7mm-08 load has around 80% of the recoil of the .30-06 150 gr. in identical rifles. A 130 gr. .270 load would be somewhere in between.

If I had a poor shooting 30-06 and a flinch, I'd trade it toward a Kimber Montana in 223. I'd shoot that Montana to death and develop a TSX load for hunting.

When that flinch has faded in the joy of running a quality 223 with a wonderful trigger in a quality stock, I'd go get the Montana of choice to complement it. I'm partial to the 7-08, but 257 or 260 are dandy as well, and in the new 84L a 270 or 25-06 may well be good beyond description.

Having a good 223 that's a twin to a bigger brother is a really good way to roll.

Battling a poor shooting rifle with too much recoil while flinching and wondering if it's you or the rifle is about as much fun as shaving your head with a cheese grater while chewing on tinfoil.

DJ

Mark, have a muzzle break installed on your '06, then it will kick like a 243...you will still have to practice to get over the flinch.

I wear Peltor electronic ear muffs when hunting, keeps my ears warm and I hear 3x as good as the average human....sweet!

Re-barrel your '06 to 6.5x55 and fall in love.

7mm-08 would also be another superb choice! 140gr's!

I'd say it's the stock and heft of the featherweight that are creating your problems.


I had one of the first featherweights on the shelves(also an 06)when Winchester brought that design back from the dead in the Eighties , and I can say that gun with warm loads was a very good understudy for moving up to what some would consider extremely hard kicking cartridges .


Get an 06 that weighs a bit more with a 24 inch barrel and a different buttstock design and I'd bet you'd think you are shooting a completely different animal.........

I'm gonna say...

No muzzle brake or crazy ideas like holding on to the scope while shooting.

Do get a .22 and shoot the heck out of it to get rid of that flinch. Practice good technique: breathing, hold and squeeze..

If you insist on keeping that '06, get a good recoil pad installed, double cork your ears, and shoot 150's out of it. Get off the bench for awhile and shoot standing and sitting.

If you do want another rifle (as we all do), go down to something like a .25-06, 257, 260, .270, 7-08 that will have less recoil in general but still have plenty of juice to kill lots of different critters dead.

Buy remington managed recoil loads and intersperse dummy rounds when you are practicing. Have someone else load your rifle.

Get following things:

1. Double ear protection for the range. Both plugs and muffs.
2. A modern thick soft recoil pad such as the Decelerator.
3. An adqequate chambering that does not kick like the 06/wsm's.
4. A stock that fits you.

For now put that 06 or WSM idea aside and get another rifle. Spring is not far off. A combo cartridge like the 243 would be great for varmints and thats excellent rifle practice and a get by on smaller big game.

Thats what to do for now.

The Kimbers seem to kick less and come with Decelerators however they cost a bit more. Perhaps some here might know of a less expensive factory rifle that comes with a soft pad?

If you are flinching with the 30-06 I wouldn't go anywhere near the 270wsm. You will have the same problem. I've also not seen that much difference between a .270 and a 30-06. I did own a 25-06 that kicked a lot less than 30-06's I had owned. Personally, if I were you and hunted in open country I would run a .243, a 260 or 7mm-08. The 7mm-08 has a little kick to it but not nearly as much as the 06. My brother dropped down to a 7mm-08 from an 06 about eight years ago and has taken about 80 whitetails with the 7mm-08 and 140 grain Corelokts. He loves it and believes that it kills deer even better than his 06 did.

You also need to make sure you are wearing good hearing protection when you are shooting. Most flinch is a product of muzzle blast.

Get a BB gun! Shoot that for a while till your flinch goes away. Seriously. This crapshoot of loaded vs unloaded won't make your flinch go away, just keep you guessing as to whether you're going to get kicked or not which will have you flinching at a dry fire and at the actual recoil.

My first gun was a 7mm Rem Mag when I was about 14. No real shooting experience to then and after a while I had no accuracy and had a good flinch. Started shooting a pellet gun and would even flinch at that damn thing out of habit. Got rid of the flinch and ended up getting a 270. After that, no problems with flinching. 270, 7WSM, 270WSM, 300WSM... no issues.

Pellet guns are your friend

If you have a .30-06 you like, but don't enjoy shooting 40 rounds, buy an identical rifle in .223 Rem and mount the same scope. If you can't find that, try to get something close in size and weight (like a Howa 1500 if you have a Rem 700 or Winchester M-70).

Get off the bench. Shoot offhand.

Remove the scope and shoot iron sights.

That scope coming back at your eye just naturally makes you want to flinch.

Load some mild loads in your .30-06 and shoot it standing, kneeling, sitting, prone, resting over rocks and against trees. Take it deer hunting. A 150-gr bullet at 2,000 fps will flatten a deer at 100 yards.

MarkD, I'd go with what Bear in Fairbanks has written. I've used a Past recoil shield for years when shooting from the bench. It makes a huge difference for me. I was shooting a number of rifles with steel buttplates and fairly stout recoil. I got tired of being bruised. The recommendation about the Limb Save pad is also good. A friend has had me try his several times and there's one on a verylight weight custom 30-06 I bought. I like 'em. There are some '06s that will beat you to death. I owned one. It would seem that at least 2 factors might affect felt recoil - chambering and headspacing, and stock design. Also, is the stock comb smacking you in the cheekbone or is the rifle just busting your shoulder? Different problems.

MarkD, First of all I'd like to compliment you on being honest about not liking recoil. A lot more people are recoil sensitive than will admit it.

My advice would be the same as several others have mentioned here, go with lighter bullet weights in your 30-06. There is a quite noticable difference in recoil between 150 and 180gr bullets in the 06, and with premium deep penetrating bullets like TSX's that we now have available you don't really need 180's in a 30-06.

Other ideas would be to use a limbsaver shoulder pad at the bench and limit the number of rounds you shoot at each range session. I hate muzzle brakes while hunting and highly recommend AGAINST them while hunting. Some brakes are removeable and you can use them on the bench and then replace them with a thread protector while hunting.

I personally love the 270 WSM and think it's a great round. Maybe you could find it in a rifle like a Kimber 8400 that is well stocked enough to lower the perceived recoil enough for you to enjoy shooting it more. Nothing at all wrong with the original 270 winchester either...........................DJ

And hold the rifle tight against your shoulder before you squeeze the trigger.
The wrong hold can hurt, find a comfortable position and repeat it every shot. One bad hit to the shoulder is worse than 40 or 50 from a good hold.
I don't like recoil either but I've got close to 700 rounds through my tupperware WSM's in the last month and a half and it's been fun(granted a couple layers of warm clothes helps alot). You are not gonna shoot well if you don't enjoy it.


And like you guys said, a 25-06 or 270 Win is a great idea.
270's are fun to shoot!

Good advise there.....

Mark, I've been a rifle loony for over 50yrs and I'm still recoil sensitive. I find it difficult to shoot a light weight 30.06 and call it fun. With really had kickers(338 and larger) I'm flinching like a wipped dog after half dozen shots or so. Long ago I found that a .270 was my upper limit in a hunting weight rifle if I was going to enjoy shooting. Lately I've been shooting a 6.5x55 Swede alot and I'm very impressed with it. It's just plain fun to shoot.

First - buy a Caldwell "Lead Sled" - the majority of flinching problems arise from shooting at a range.

Next (seeing you are from Nebraska - deer as primary targets and wide-open spaces being the norm) don't even think about a 270 WSM - at least if 30-06 recoil bothers you. It will recoil noticeably harder - and faster.

Get a 25-06.

Fast, flat shooting, potent, and much much easier on the shoulder.

If for some reason that doesn't appeal to you - look into a 260 Remington cartridge or a 7mm-08.

Sounds like you shoot factory ammo. If so practice with the reduced recoil round and use the full force for hunting. Get a good recoil pad on your rifle and get a past recoil sheild to use when you practice.

Mark,
Some of the previous suggestions have been very good advice.

I'll tell what worked for me.

When I was a kid, thirty some years ago, my first centerfire rifle was a Win 670 30-06 with a hard plastic cap on the butt. I quickly developed a severe case of flinchitus. Heck I started flinching at the trigger pull on my 22LR

The cure was............a brand new 22-250, a couple hundred pieces of brass, ten pounds of IMR 3031, and a couple thousand 22 caliber bullets.

I shot at anything that would hold water, empty soup cans, pop cans, plastic oil jugs, gallon milk jugs, what ever I could find.

But mostly, I really concentrated on seeing that water filled target explode in the scope. It took about six months to cure the flinch and tendency to close my eyes at the trigger pull.

After six months of shooting the 22-250, I installed a decent recoil pad on the '06 and sighted it in for deer season. Since then I make sure to put the rifle away as soon as I start to think "This is going to hurt" as I pull the trigger.

That usually occurs after about forty rounds from a hunting weight rifle and high power loads in the '06 or 7mm STW.

You win the award for the most FUN way to learn not to flinch! I'm going to have to use it with my boys...............DJ

Get some low recoil loads like thse that are being marketed by Remington. They have low recoil .30-06 loads available. Do you have good sound control muffs? I noticed in the Army that a large component of flinching was noise from the .30-06 (this was pre Viet Nam). In fact the Army did a study and found that noise was about 40% of flinching relex.

If you are srictly a deer hunter, you have lots of caliber choices in the .243 to 6.5mm range including the .25 calibers. I shot the .250 Savage and .257 Roberts boltactions for years and thought both of them were great deer cartridges for whitetail. Little noise, not much recoil and very accurate. Being able to overcome nough to practice and master is the over arching goal. It never is easy for any of us.

Use a past pad or what ever (limbsaver ) to help tame recoil. Design and tailor to your neeeds do not worry about what others think. When you get to be a good shot, they won't remember what you went through to get there.

Agreed, I forgot to mention that. Another thing to do with heavy kickers from the bench is to hold the rifle firmly with both hands.

To rest your forearm against the front bag, grip the forearm firmly with that hand, elbow on the bench and sitting up straight and your other elbow off the bench and holding the pistol with a firm grip pull the rifle back against your shoulder.

I even use this position to check the actual impact and sighting of a rifle to prove that it will hit where aimed (stays sighted in or not) as the position is much closer to an actual field position for some hunting.

Go get that .308 that's calling your name and launch 165gr bullets with about the same felt recoil as 130s outta the 270 Win.

shooting your 30-06 "more" isn't likely to help your flinch. in fact, it will probably make it worse. and a 270wsm sure won't change things. why not get a 243? it has far less recoil and will kill any deer out there.

In factory winchester stocks, my shoulder says the 30-06, 7 RM, and 270 WSM kick about the same, the 7 WSM and 300 WSM a little more.

The 270 Winchester recoil is noticeably less, a 25-06 is very gentle.

I would think anyone with some practice could handle a 270 win with a Limbsaver recoil pad.

Keep your other gun, because after you get trained to shoot with recoil, you will also be able to handle your current rifle.

Practice concentrating on the shot placement and put recoil into a secondary category. You know it will recoil, but you have survived it before. So it won't hurt anymore if you relax your body and concentrate on the shot.

15 gr's less lead makes a world of difference in recoil.

I shoot a 30-06, and a 270, and a 308 win, among several other guns; I shoot my -06 the most, cause of it's cabability; I weigh in at around 165 lbs, and my -06 doesn't bother me at all; I think it's you, not the gun; I had the same problem when I started shooting my 7 REM. MAG; Just get down, and get a firm grip, and shoot! If you are scared of a 30-06, then you should get a 22-250, and shoot groundhogs, and forget about big game;

Another thought; My 7mm REM.MAG kicks like hell: I got a Browning BAR in 30-06, and it is so smooth, you would not believe it; I reload my own rounds (150 gr. up to 220 gr.);
my favorite is a 150 gr. Hornady BTSP, with 49 gr. of IMR4064, pushing 2850 fps; I shoot this load all day long, with no problem; It shoots lights out, and smooth as silk; My buddies 30-30 kicks harder; The gas operation takes up all the recoil, and you wont flinch; It's a real joy to shoot;

When I started shooting my first real rifle was an m77 30/06 and man did it pound me. I was 16 at the time now at 41 it is a tame cat. Reduced recoil ammo or lighter loads if you reload will help. The other posters are right move down to a 257roberts/25/06,260 or 7mm08 and shoot them lots.Their reduced recoil will help your shooting big time and then when the 30/06 starts to be a tame cat you can always get the 270wsm if you really want one.

270wsm doesn't have much recoil at all if you go with a 130gr bullet. With a 150gr bullet it has some kick. Hell, my 7-08 with a 150gr bullet kicks pretty well..

Anthony was about 90 pounds last spring when he used my (now his) 270wsm custom lwt rifle and 130gr TSX to take this bear at over a 100 yards. No recoil issue with him.

Problem solved, GET A PAST SHOULDER RECOIL PAD. You won't ever need to worry about recoil again. They are comfortable and you can use it with any of your guns. Much cheaper then buying another gun.