What's More important to you in a deer/elk rifle? A super flat shooting rifle with a smaller caliber bullet or More knock down power plus a bigger hole with a larger caliber bullet?

To me....it's all about rifle fit and being intimate with it. After that it just don't matter much to me.

Plus with dotz I can make about any round do well to 500 yds so I really don't need all that speed.

Sorry, I just can't follow instructions very well...grin

Dober

I like a super flat cartridge that hits hard.Thus the STW.Thing hits like a Tyson punch.

Stick or rock...

That works...

I like a bigger hole... Give me a larger caliber bullet over speed in most cases...

Rock you have more range...

I'm with you on the big 7's, that's why I dearly love my 7 Mashburn Super.

Dober

It depends for me. I am not a fan of small/fast rounds for elk. I have dug too many lead core bullet jackets out of elk shoulders, scared over from seasons past. For lung shots, nearly anything works but I like to put my bullets tight to the shoulder, and if I should put it a few inches forward, I like to have weight and modernate velocity to break that shoulder and keep going. I mainly use a 300 Sav these days, but am no stranger to a 340 Wby and 375 H&H. Premiums help with the small/fast rounds but I am just old fashioned and like more weight/diameter.

Mike, you get this at a sacrifice and that being recoil... Now for us recoil sensitive shooters could have a little troulbe with the STW....

just kidding got love the BIG 7....

Yup the big 7 has opened my eyes.As for the recoil Randy with the new stock it's worse than my 300 Win.But it's a fast sharp kick thats over before you know it.

Time for work... talk at you all later...

I bounce back and forth on this and have varrying opinions for deer and elk. I like fast and large and good penetration for elk, and fast and explosive for deer sized stuff. I believe speed kills, as it is the variable that is squared in energy equations. Penetration doesn't concern me much on deer size stuff, so I'm ok with fast openers, but on elk sized stuff I want slow openers. Same theories should apply on either animal, but I like what I like. So, when selecting bullets for elk, I leaned toward 200 grain Accubonds in my .300 Ultra, 250 A-Frames in the .358 Norma, 175 Mag Tips in the .280, but light for caliber TSXs in .270 WSM and .264 Win Mag(but I have used Partitions in both also). Guns I load for friends include the .30-06, .270, .300 Win Mag and .325 WSM. In those, for elk I load up 180 TSXs, 160 Partitions or 140 Fail Safes, 200 Accubonds, and 220 A-Frames, respectively.
For antelope, I'd load 100 gr Ballistic Tips in the .264, 125 Ballistic Tips in the .30-06, 100 gr Hornady Spire Points in the .270, 140 Ballistic Tips in the .280, 150 Speers in the .325 and either 85 gr TSXs or Partititions in the .243 WSSM or 90 gr Ballistic Tips.
Clear as mud right? But I've since sold all but one of my rifles and hunted everything with the .264 this year with either 100 gr Ballistic Tips or 120 TTSXs.

It was fun.Later Randy.

Heavy for calibre. If the bullet is going over 3000fps, I add more weight.

larger caliber and heavier bullets (within reason) for me.

Not to highjack but I think shot placement is most crucial. I have a friend that took an elk down at over 500 yds with a 257 wby and 120 or 115 grn tip. Ya that tip is cruising, but not real heavy. 1 shot, placed correctly and it took the top of the heart off. Then there was a guy that had a 338-378. Shooting at a monster bull at around 400 yds. Couldnt hit the elk for trying, not sure but I think he had to use a 300 win to take care of it. Practice and shot placement I think is more crucial than than weight of the bullet.

As big as needed to make two holes, and as fast as I can make that happen. JMO, Dutch.

Something that I can carry every day for a couple of weeks were the Elk live. So a rifle in the 7 to 9 lbs on the out side just about dose it for me as for cartridges well anything from 6.5 x 55 to 338 Winchester is plenty. Of late the 7mm Remington Mag has been doing it for me only because I really like my current rifle so chambered, thou my old sako 75 in 338 seen more elk and moose hunting. When its all said and done, a 30-06 with a good fixed 4x scope house in a rifle that tops out around 7lbs or so launching any good bullet from 165 to 220 gr. Is really all you ever really need for Deer/Elk or 95 % of the worlds big game. But that would be to simple and well boring.

Randy,

Personally "flat" doesn't matter one bit to me, within reason. I mean if the rifle is making 2800 fps with a decent-BC bullet, that's flat enough. I'll compensate with turrets or a reticle.

But a big ol' hole is a pretty cool thing.

My .358 has been nothing but wonderful on blacktails. It just flattens them, with minimal muss and fuss and bloodshot.

My hunting rifle batter shows that I tend to aim for around 2800-2900 fps, with the exception of my purpose-built .358:

.358
7mm-08
30-06
.300 WM
.325 WSM
.338 WM

If the gun is a good fit, caliber is not as high up the scale.

being intimate with it... I've done a lot of things with a rifle, but that ain't one of em.

is it true, tight chambers are better?

very true always has been always will

Most of my deer and elk hunting is done here in the West, where long ranges can be encountered.

For game including deer, and up to cow elk, my .257 Wby. almost always gets the nod.
If bull elk are the target, my .300 Wby. with 165 gr. TSX bullets will probably get chosen.

However- if lots of walking uphill and down is involved, my lightweight .280 would likely get picked over either of the Wbys, for any game.

Knock down power used to be most important to me. Used to love seeing hoofs flip up in the air immediately after a shot. Unfortunately,I was getting way too much bloodshot damage with the .30-06, 7mm Mag., and 300 Win. Mag.
I have since switched to .243 and 7mm-08 for the Mule deer around here. Elk will still get the old .30-06, but overall, I'm trying to do less, but more effective damage. Shot placement is key, but doesn't always happen!

A flat shooting cartridge is pretty low on my priority list as far as what makes me chose a round for hunting. I like to look at downrange energy from a particular cartidge. and in a rifle I am looking for balance, function, and handling caracteristics.

I used to be of the Keith style of thinking and hunted with over .30 caliber guns. Now as I get older and wiser(I hope), sub .30's are my main battery with the 7mm being my top choice. With the modern bullets the sub .30's have come of age. Also, the older I get, the less I like recoil.

Don't get me wrong, I still have a fondness for the .338 caliber but believe my 338-06 is all I need in all reality when it comes to a "big" gun.

Jeff, I hear you on the 2800fps but take a look at the 175 Nosler Partition going 2700 fps out of the .280. At a bc of .519 it retains good energy and a decent trajactory out to 300yds plus.

With ridge to ridge opportunities a 30-378 and 180 grain slugs. In the timber, a 45-70 and 405 grain pills.

I am STILL of the Keith school of thought for all hunting.....it's worked out quite nicely for 40 years. For that reason I "choose" to hunt deer with mostly the .30-06 and 7mm Mag. Could I use less gun???? Probably, but I "like" the added "edge" I have with the bigger bores/heavier bullets.

I also "choose" the .338 Mag. for elk/moose size animals. I could probably do just as well with the .30-06/7mm Mag. and certainly with the .300 Mag.......but I "like" the edge the .338 gives me.

As far as a "flat shooting" cartridge....it never has been a point of consideration for me. Any round that sends a relatively heavy-for-caliber bullet downrange at 2800-3000fps is all the "flat" I will ever need. In my opinion, if one "regularly" taking shots at game over 300-400 yards......it's not a problem to be solved with a "flatter" shooting round, but a problem with the way you hunt. Get better at "hunting" and close the range to something reasonable....not use a super-fast (usually smaller bore) cartridge as a crutch to support your poor hunting skills.

The only true "flat" rifle I own is a .25-06 bought specifically for pronghorns....which DO tend to be taken at somewhat longish average ranges. Even then I tend to use "heavy" bullets (100-120 grain) and don't try for the last possible foot-per-second I can get with a light bullet. To be honest, I can hardly justify the .25-06 over my .270 with 130 grain bullets.......but I didn't buy it because I "needed" it, but rather because I "wanted" it. Good enough reason for ANY new rifle.

Yep, that pretty much covers it for me!

Doesn't matter, except that smaller/faster limits the shot choices. With them I will be more critical of shot placement if things happen quickly and up close.

With the big/slower I have the option of going from further back to front while aiming for the exit hole as one of our posters uses for their signature line.

I'll try to break a deer down with a big bullet. With smaller diameter and weight bullets I wont.

Just being out there is most important, headstamp is virtually moot.

heck I just grab one that I have good confidence in. I used to be in the heavy magnum camp, then after seeing a roosie hit the dirt all but instantly from a 257 tsx from my roy.....I don't much think any of them are bulletproof.

big toothy bears excluded

I am not sure if my .270 or 30-06 count as "fast and flat" but these are what I prefer for deer and elk. In short action I prefer .308 over .243 so I guess I am in the "slow and heavy" group. I like enough gun and and good bullets.

When it came to deer/elk combo hunts in the west,I always followed the Page/Hagel advise and carried a 300 mag of some sort loaded with a 165-200 gr bullet of tough construction,or a 160 gr bullet built similarly,loaded to the velocity potential of the cartridge.Sometimes I carried a 338 loaded to with a 210-225 gr bullet,or a 270 with a 130 gr.

The reasons are pretty simple.In the country I hunted, on given days,you never knew if the shot offered was going to be at an elk angling away in timber at rather close range, or have to stretch a shot across a broad canyon at long distance. We did not have range finders so a rifleman had to be experienced in judging ranges, maybe use his scope reticle as a rangefinder(if he knew what he was doing,shot a good deal and shot varmints off-season, it was no real problem too determine that an elk was 300 or 400 yards away);but out to 350 or so it did not matter a twit because these loads all shot flat enough to handle the circumstances.

These bullets and loads, while maybe unsuitable for raking an elk butt to brisket,would handle shots through shoulders broadside, or ribs to the off side shoulder and put a big bull down at any reasonable distance.

If you look at a lineup of popular elk cartridges it's pretty obvious that most of us want a bit of both.

I find it curious that some folks are afraid to admit that a flat trajectory is important;almost like it is "un-kool"or some other silly notion like that...this is of course nonsense because flat trajectory is a very good thing when you can take advantage of it,and anyone who has done any amount of hunting knows there will be times when it can save your bacon if you know your rifle;and we also know that a certain level of speed is helpful in expanding bullets when distance gets a bit long.

Rifle men have been taking advantage of "flatter trajectory" since Americans got stormed at San Juan Hill by the enemy shooting the "flat-trajectory" 7mm Mauser against the American 30-40 Krag,and we abandoned 220 gr loads in the 06 for 150 gr bullets...... .......so....

Besides, anyone hunting with a rifle of 30/06 level or better in trajectory is admitting that velocity and trajectory are important,or he'd still be shooting a 38-55....

No sense even mentioning the deer on the same hunt....these loads will drop them with impunity......

Hmmm�. Another Mary Ann or Ginger question�

Why not Mary Ann AND Ginger???

I�ve hunted deer and elk simultaneously with a .257 Roberts, 7mm RM, .30-30, .308 Win, .30-06, .300 WM, .375 Win, .44 Mag and .45-70. These days I always take two rifles chambered for different cartridges. Last year it was the .300 WM and a .30-06. The previous time the .300 WM went the second rifle was my .257 Roberts.

The rifle is less important than the load and my ability to use it. I love hunting with the .30-30 and the .44 Mag, but both limit the range at which I will attempt to take game. That doesn�t stop me from using them, even though I have other options.

.50 BMG and have both....

I thought .300 win mag was flat enough for me, but it was hard kicking. Now 45-70 is flat enough for me Depends on how much I like the rifle. If I can shoot it well it doesn't matter whether it's flat like a pancake or flat like a rainbow.

Big bullets with knock down power, I'm old school!

STA, my 7 STW kicks like a 25/06 with a Vias muzzle break! The 257 Weatherby with minimal freebore kicks so little I see the water vapor fly off a deer's hide when the bullet hits, with a Vias muzzle break!

I wear Peltor Tac 6 electronic ear muffs and they add a real + to the outdoor experience with the greatly enhanced hearing.

I guess I can't help as my bulls have all dropped to the 338-06, 35 Whelen or 375 H&H.