Got the bug for a Ruger M77 compact. Ok Ok I happen to like carbines so let's just let the rifle choice lay. They don't chamber it in 257 or that would be a good choice I think.

I have experience with the 243 and know what it will do. Have none with the 260 Rem ( 6.5- 08). I have some exp with the 7-08, good round.

Intended use is for Texas deer, hogs, limited varmit shooting.

So, friends, tell me about the Remmie 260. Pros and cons and which one of the two is, in your opinion, better. A few whys would be helpful too.


BCR

Go with the .260.

There is not anything that a .260 can't do as well , or better [wider range of options] than the .243

A .260 covers everthing from varmits to Moose, with equal recoil, and superior ballistics.

JMHO.

BCR:

What you describe is (by my definition at least) the crossover or dual purpose rifle. The up to 250 lb. medium stuff, and the occasional lazy jackrabbit or unwary 'yote. While you can't go wrong with anything on the 308 case, my take is that the most important thing is bullet selection.

MHO, is that the 6.5's are the best in the 24-26 range in this regard. There are nice 100's in the 24's, a couple of good 115's in the 25's but the 6.5's offer a quality bullet range from 100 - 140 (even heavier if you want). While good hunters and practiced shooters are often very successful with 100 gr. 243's, those rilfes (are) probably on the light side for medium game. There are also good varmint/plinker bullets in the 85 - 95 range for the 6.5's.

I have used 25's for this purpose for 20 years or more but have recently been seduced by the 6.5 bore. While the 243 is tremendously popular, I personally think the 6.5's are a better choice for this purpose.

two cents please........ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

JimF

I'm sure the 260 is a great round, but the truth of the matter, at least in my area, is that its all but a dead cartridge. You would be hard pressed to find anyplace that carried any shells here, and if you did it would probably be one kind/weight and they'd be expensive. For whatever the reason this hasn't been the cae with the 7-08, but the 260 flopped. 243's, of course, are everywhere. And I honestly don't see it making a huge difference on deer. Some people claim it, but really I don't see a big difference between my 243 and my 270 even on deer...

BCR,



I think you should stick with the metric cartidges, like your 7.62x39mm, and find one chambered in 6.5x55mm. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you have your heart set on the .257, Ruger does do their Ultralight in the .257 Roberts. It has a 20" barrel, any qualified gunsmith should be able to trim that back for you if you want the 16 1/2" barrell of the compacts.

Bogey, Have a Ruger 260 compact and Remington 600 in 6mm, which is just a 243 with a little attitude. Find I consistantly pick up the 260 to take hunting and the 6mm tends to stay home. Like someone else said. It will do anything the 243 will do and then a lot more. Especially on hogs, the 140 grainer should be bad juju. JMHO TM

I see no advantage and several disadvantages of going 243 over 260 for the deer and hogs you will be hunting. A 120 gr. 6.5mm bullet going the same speed as a 100 gr. 6mm is going to hit harder and kill better, no doubt, while recoil will be basically the same. And you have the option of loading 140 gr. bullets, which kill very well at their moderate velocity.



If you handload, go with the 260 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> It's very easy to load for and is my favorite centerfire round. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />



I've taken a few deer with my 260, ranging from small 120 lb whitetail at 40 yards, to a 275 lb mulie at 240 yards. All were shot with 140 gr. bullets @ 2600 fps, Nosler Partitions or Sierra GameKings. Works real well, seems to kill just as fast as my 7mm Rem Mag did <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I sold my .243 last year even though it worked well on a mule deer and two black bear. It was also successfully used on a couple of coyotes. My problems was that I have better choices of rifles to use on deer and hog sized animals and a heavy barrel .223 that was far superior on varmints. So the .243 fell in the hole between. I replaced my .243 with a light weight .284 and it is the rifle to own, IMHO. So Boggy, its only another half millimeter bigger so why not go there! The 140 gr. works great on coyotes through elk. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Also, you would then have a big enough difference in bore size to justify the .257 Bob! Now that's thinking ahead. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Boggy, I recall reading an article(but can't remember the author)on the .260Rem. when it first appeared in factory form. After considerable testing, the writer summarized by stating that the .260 is what the .243 should have been in the first place. RS

For those itty bitty TX deer, it is a toss up with the right bullet. However, when you add feral pork to the menu, I think that the 260 is a better choice for punching through the gristle shield that the bigger hogs tend to develope.

If you haven't shot a Ruger 77 Compact, you might want to find somebody who has one and fire a few rounds down range. I have been told that the muzzle blast takes some getting used to.

Jeff

Boggy,
I'ved got a .260 in a Rem. Mtn. rifle, and really like the cal. I'm shooting the 95 gr. Vmax in it.
Also have a Ruger compact in .223 Neet little rifle, and the muzzle blast of the short barrel don't bother me.
Am thinking the compact in .260 would be "the cats whiskers"
These are great "packin" rifles!
Virgil B.

BCR,

243 - 100g bullet - 3,000fps
260 - 100g bullet - 3,300fps <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

260 - 120g bullet - 3,000fps
243 - <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

243 - 85g bullet - 3,350fps
260 - 85g bullet - 3,500fps <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

260 - 140g bullet - 2,800fps
243 - <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

No recoil to speak of with either. You just go bigger and faster with the 260 and still have bullets available for the light stuff. For 300+ yd shots, you will notice a difference with the 260. For hogs I would also lean toward the 260.

Can't think of anything the 7mm-08 can do that the 260 can't do equally. Some have a particular bullet they like to use that might sway them to 7mm-08 but the two are essentially peas in a pod. I went with the 260 (over the 7mm-08) as it had a better selection of lightweight bullets for coyote, crow, and plinking.

HogWild

260, The muzzle blast on mine is not bad at all, especially compared to something like a 7 mag, etc.. in a normal barrel length. You gain much and lose little but weight with the Ruger Compact. Of course that is just my opinion and I could be wrong. :-) TM

To me, the 243 is at its best as a dedicated coyote round. For a "dual purpose" round I'd go bigger. As much as I love the Roberts, I see the 260 as a "better 257 Roberts"... that's sayin' a lot!

I dislike Ruger 77 Mk IIs about as much as I like Ruger 77 tang safety rifles, so I can't picture myself owning another Ruger in 260, except for the rebored (from 243) 77 RSI that I currently have. I haven't shot a Ruger 77 Compact, but have been told that the muzzle blast took some getting used to. I have a couple of Remington XP100s in 260 and I did find that the muzzle blast from the gun that I have used was noticable when shooting called coyotes (without earplugs, that is).

Jeff

Thanks a bunch for all the help and advice guys. You're good people. Looks like the old 243 is not getting a lot of play. As stated I know what it will do and won't do. Just no experience at all with the 6.5-08.

So when and if I think that compact will be a 260 based on what you all have said.

Since I haven't bought a round of factory ammo save mil surp to feed my old war dogs in fifteen years or more the 260 will be handloaded for.

Glad to hear most saying the muzzle blast isn't all that bad. I have a Peruvian police carbine with a 16.5 inch barrel in 30-06. Believe me you know something has happened when you squeeze that one off. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Talk about dragon breath. Hog killing demon though and easy to handle on a 4 wheeler or around the dogs even if it does kick like a bay steer.

Again, thanks for the help boys, you're the best.



BCR

You're so right BCR.

This forum gets better all the time, with plenty of goodwill and sound advice.

scubie02:

You are absolutely correct, the 260 seems moribund. Like many "better" cartridges, sometimes you can't kill off the established leader.

Personally I think that the 6 rem, the "Bob" and the 260 are all "better" than the 243 for the various purposes intended. Yet, I'd guess that the 243 sells triple what the other three do combined.

For a handloader it doesn't matter. It's not likely there'll be a shortage of 308 cases anytime soon.

JimF

BCR,
Although I don't have any experience with 6.5 - 08, I would think it would be comparable to 6.5 - 06 or the .264 Win Mag. If I remember correctly, you reload, and ammo should not be a problem either and therefore, it would get my vote.

When I started looking around for an all purpose rifle, the .264 Win Mag was the best I could find, and not suffering from from any preconceived ideas about the round, I bought it from one of my relatives who was quite a hunter, after he suffered a catastrophic auto accident. I haven't done any hunting with the darn thing yet, but it is definitely a keeper and fits the niche between my .223 and my 30-06 very nicely. It also has more than enough power to kill most medium to large game animals, even if it is a bit much for littler varmints.

Another round you might want to consider is the .220 Swift, which was what I was going to buy if I couldn't get a hold of the ol' man's .264 Win Mag. It's not as potent on big game like deer, but will get the job done nicely with a little care being exercised to take game that size. Still, it's your money friend but mine would rest on something in the 6.5-08 or 6.5-06 range were it me.

Flower Child

PS I still think you NEED a .264 Win Mag in your rifle rack if for no other reason than to keep Winchester busy making brass for me to buy and to keep folks guessing what us ol' farts are carrying in the field.

I'd get one in 223 and shoot the bejeeezus outta it.

With sound projectiles,it will nicely fill the bill in all avenues. Blast is nill,ammo costs dick and recoil is nada.

Them attributes always piqued my interest........................

Boggy, I must say that I like the 260 by default. Back in 1968 I killed my first moose with a 243, this was not some record bull but he was a fair sized mulligan bull. One shot behind the left ear just under the antler with a 105 gr round nose Hornady bullet. Range slightly less than 50 yards. Rifle used was a Savage LH 110. This rifle has killed many deer, including mule and black tails. Lots of little critters and a few coyotes. So why do I go with a 260..... I said by default right. Just a few short years ago I built a 6.5 x 55 Swede on a Mex 34 action using one of the last Olympic Arms sporting barrels they made. I have never had a rifle other than my bench rest rifles shoot as well as this one I am a firm believer in long bullets for their weight. The 6.5 140 grain is a fantastic bullet out of any cartridge made for it. I am after all an accuracy nut and guns that shoot as well as my Swede really get me going. The 260 was developed as a target round and that can't be at all bad.

Bullwnkl.

When you'all get your new American Rifleman, there is a spiffy 'lil artical on the .260 written by an author who initially hated the round but now thinks its the ballz, and why.

Quick read, good background, check it out.

Well I'll be the odd man out and pick the 243.

The 260 is a fine cartridge for bigger game but I don't think Moose is on the menu. You mentioned deer,hogs and the occasional Coyote and the 243 was made for that. It also has roughly 50% LESS recoil than the 260. Why put up with more kick when it's not needed??? This is based on the aformentioned loads; 243-100gr @ 3000fps vs 260-140gr @ 2800fps. My .02c...

One other note. If you don't handload I would stay far away from the 260. I've never noticed any factory loads for the 260 at the local stores. The 243 factory loads are at every mom and pop store from Alabama to Alaska...

Well in a 16.5" barrel of a Ruger Compact, I doubt you will see those numbers out of either a 243 OR a 260.


In a 16.5" barrel, I'd be suprised if you could top 2850 fps with a 100 gr. bullet in a 243 Win. In a 6.75 lb rifle, this amounts to 12 ft-lbs recoil.

Same goes for a 260, I bet your top loads in a 16.5" barrel would see a 140 gr. doing 2550 fps tops. This equates to 14 ft-lbs...hardly double the recoil of a 243... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

There is no advantage of the 243 unless you hunt gophers...I agree, the 260 is what the 243 should be <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

1.) Theres a whole continent of Europeans that have been dropping Moose and Rein or Red Deer with the more aneimic 6.5 swede for decades so a .260 will take a Moose no problem at all.

2.) can you share your calculations on recoil? I gotta know how you figure a .243 has half as much recoil as a .260 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

The .260 is my choice hands down. The .243 is in my mind a varmint cartridge. And I dont care who has done what with it. Thats just MY opinion. I have a nack for avoiding mainstream factory calibers. Anything with AI on the end of it at least gets a pretty long look. My son is nearing the age where I can consider building him his own rifle. And my choices of caliber are the 7-08 and 260. Note that which ever I choose will be in AI form. The 260 is new to me so it will probably be the one i choose. Already dont the 708AI thing. One hell of a rifle, but I want something different. For a rifle, I would choose a model 7 instead of that ruger. Unless it has a tang saftey, a ruger is useless to me. Quality has gone to squat.

1.) I know a 260 will take a Moose. That was my point! BCR doesn't need a Moose cartridge. He wants a deer/hog/coyote rig...



2.)The 243 with a 100gr bullet @ 3000fps in a 7 lb rig churns up 12.7 ft lbs of recoil. The 260 with a 140gr bullet @ 2800fps in a 7 lb rig churns up 17.53 ft lbs of recoil. According to my calculations,50 percent of 12 is 6, so if you add those together that's 18, which is roughy the recoil of the 260 load. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Gotta tell you your math is out. You said the .243 had 50% less recoil than the .260.

That means HALF of the recoil of the .260.

100% less would mean no recoil.

so 50% less recoil than the .260 would mean HALF the recoil of the .260, which you state is 17.53 ft/lbs.

Half of that is 8.765 ft/lbs

You said the .243 had 12.7 ft/lbs of recoil

12.7 divided by 17.53 equals 0.72, which is 72%

So the .243 has 72% of the recoil of the .260 Rem.

100%-72% equals 28%


The .243 has 28% less recoil than the 260 Rem, according to your figures.

Cheaha, Now what does a Redneck from LA know? (Grin) We highly sospissticated (how you like dat spellin) folk from UCLA are where de boy need to come for advice. :-)


Seriously, there are no flies at all on the 243/6mm and they are great rounds. Just for the options outlined, I still think the 260 is a better round. More recoil, yes but still far below what most people find objectionable. My 5 foot nothing wife never noticed the recoil on hers and I have a slight built 11 year old shooting it now with no problems. And this is the little Ruger compact, where recoil should be the worst.

As for taking Moose, I would not try it myself, as I have several better options avaiable but the 6.5X55, which is it's older brother, is the most commonly used round in the Nordic countries ...... for Moose. Now of course, they have runt Moose over there but there are no SMALL Moose anywhere. The 140/160 grainers just flat penetrate. By the way, my wife and little buddy are shooting the 140's in Federal factory loads. 120's should recoil even less.

Finally, as to ammo availability. I have never had a problem. Wally Mart and all the local gun stores have it here and you can order from Cabela's, etc... Is it as available as 243? Of course not but I do not think anyone would ever have a problem finding some, reasonably close and easily.

Of course that is just my opinion, and I could be wrong. :-)

PS> How is the Spring coming? 70+ degrees today, up here in UCLA.

Best Regards, TM

Cheaha, Should have read the rest of the posts. Heck, if them Yankees and such is gonna gang up on you, we may have to fort up and take'em on. Us Good Ol boys got to stick together. I'll bring my 260, what you gonna use? (grin) TM

Which is roughly HALF of his claimed 50% ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Fun with numbers <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

TM,

I'll bring my 308ti. You can't talk no sense to a bunch of damn yankees... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

TM,

BTW, it's beautiful down here as well. Getting ready to start popping Groundhogs and Crows. Somebody's gotta do it. I'll picture little faces of U.S. Grant on 'em... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Looks to me like all the 260's numbers are inflated by 100 fps.

How far south in this fine state am I likely to see groundhogs? Finally got to Ft. Rucker about two weeks ago. You, me, travelinman, bxcrossroads and any others should all get together sometime.

John

Sounds like a plan to me. There is supposed to be a large population of Wild Boar around Ft. Rucker. Look for old Kudzu fields and you'll find the groundhogs...

A redneck from LA? Hold up a minute. We havent allowed rednecks here for the last twenty or so years. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But the 260 would be the cats meow for a multipurpose rifle. And its big enough that it will be hard to run out of uses for it. The model 7 would be my choice of rifle. Close enough to a carbine and plenty light to be an ejoyable pack gun. If recoil is a problem, get a sims pad put on it.

FVA,



The velocity for three of the loads (100g, 120g, and 140g) are max loads from the latest Nosler manual using a 24" barrel. They actually show 3,365 fps as a max load for the 100g Partition/Ballistic Tip. The 140g load is a little over 2,800 fps and the 120g load is a little over 3,000 fps both using VV-560.



Nosler doesn't show a load for the 85g bullet. In the latest Handlaoder, Barsness lists his 260 Rem at 3,439 fps using a 22" barrel (45.0g Varget). That is probably his most accurate load (0.77" groups) and not likely a max load (it could be). I've read posts where others have obtained 3,500 fps from a 24" barrel using IMR 4064. Allowing 2" more barrel length, considering the 100g max velocities and a drop in bullet weight of 15%, and considering the fastest loads usually fill the case, I think 3,500 fps is not out of line and a decent estimate for a max load.



If the 260 loads are inflated, Nosler inflated them (with the exception of the 85g load). What velocity would you estimate for an 85g bullet out of a 24" barrel using the 260 Rem and a max load of powder that almost fills the case?



HogWild

Wow, I love my 260, a 22" barreled mtn rifle, but I don't see those speeds. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

I can get 3200 fps with a 95 gr. V-Max, 3100 fps with a 100 gr. Ballistic Tip, 2900 fps with a 120 gr., 2800 fps with a 129 gr., and 2650 fps with a 140 gr., stopping at the book max loads....

maybe I have a slow barrel??? Or Nosler has tight, custom test barrels.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I got 3200 fps with 95 grain v max's as well. 2680 fps with factory Rem. 140's. Barnes #3 only has three loads out of 17 that top 2700 fps with 140's including their blue meanies. They even use a 24" barrel. Most 260's don't.
As far as the 85's go I really don't know but would like to use the 3400+ figure barnes gives for their 85 gr. xlc bt for the .243 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Cheaha, Kinda like What can you tell a woman with two black eyes? ....... Nothing...... You already told her twice! Ducking now before the PC police show up! (grin) TM

PS. I was eighteen before I knew Damn Yankee was not one word! :-)

An ex wife works fine for me! :-)

Hondo, My brother owns a fish camp on Lake Eufaula, which is just South of you. Fly down two or three times a year and would love to meet up with some of you guys. Assuming the fish are not biting of course. (grin) If you get up to Huntsville, just give me a shout. TM

so the 260 has half again the recoil of the 243... i don't see that as a big obstacle but some might.....

i've used the .243 as my go to rifle for better'n 25 years..... have never tripped the trigger on a .260, but i have wished on a couple of occasions that my .243 had a little more spiz... not that it ever lacked, mind you.... just a peace of mind thing for me...... john w

TM,

just left athens/browns ferry this morning..... my first time through the area in almost 30 years.....

had damn all for time to do things as i was working the outage at the power plant there... i did eat though, almost ever day, and it reminded me of an old post here about favorite places to eat while on the road....

i've got to add decatur to my list... specifically the Hickory Stick BBQ smoke house, and a rib joint called B.B. Perrins..... Big Bob Gibsons will do as well... i usually lose a little weight during an outage... i'm sure that i gained this time around...

i did make it to huntsville to the space museum... well worth the time to stop for , and my son liked the t shirt..... john w

The 243 is a varmint cartidge trying to act like a deer cartridge but it is very appropriate for those who are learning to handle recoil. There is no need to use it when much better cartridges are available if recoil is not a problem. I killed some large deer with a 243 but they kept going with 100 Rem PSP Core for 20 t0 60 yards and that is way too far in exceptionally thick woods; the kind where you search for hours only to come back the next day and find the deer 30 yards from where you shot it. Never happened to me but to others. I want a bigger hole. Even X's are not the way to go when 257's and up are available.

Slasher, a gut shot deer is just that. Most shots in these parts are well under 100 yards and a .243 is a respected deer killer here. Maybe the "others" need glasses. Most deer have dropped where they were shot and the others never left my sight.

I have taken Moose, Deer, & Coyotes with the .243 Win caliber in a Savage 99c. I bought the Savage for my wife to learn with, but while she was a good shot at the range she lacked confidence in the bush.
As others have said, the .260 Rem does anything the .243 could do but with greater versatility due to a broader range of bullet weights. I used the 140gr Hornady SP last fall to harvest both my Moose & my Elk with the little .260 Rem.
IMHO bullet placement is vital, either caliber will kill if you as the shooter do your part in placing the bullet into the kill zone accurately & consistently. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

hey boggy,
i'm sure that the ruger compact is a fine piece, but have you looked at the model 70 compact for comparison porpoises??? john w

john, I haven't looked at the M70. Will check that one out. Thanks for the heads up.

BCR

Johnw, You were less than 10 minutes from the house and you can see my office from the Space and Rocket center. Next time your around, give me a call. You should also look up a place called Simp McGees, next time your in Decatur. Good eating place for dinner. JHMO TM

Why be stuck on the Ruger compact if you want a .257? Ruger makes a Ultra Light rifle in .257 Roberts. I've got one and they are super rifles.

hey TM,

stopped at the motel bar next to the space center for a sandwich and a beer... i'm talking with some guy in there and the talk turned to hunting or rifles or some such thing. the guy challenges me as to whether i'm an NRA member..... that don't happen where i live now..... least it never has to me...
i left feeling pretty good about the place..... john w

John, That would have been the May Rot Inn (Marriot). Spent many a wasted evening there in my younger days.

Yeah, there are some good folks around here. I travel the world and there are lots of places I like but this will always be home. Be sure to let me know the next time your coming through and I will buy! At least the first one. TM

I have used a .243 for over 35 years now. Everything on 4 legs including elk. Fortunately, never had a problem. All the power and bullet selection I have ever needed in the lower 48.