i picked up my new vanguard from the shop today. this one does not have a target in the box, and the last one i bought did not either. what gives?
you guys still getting targets? i know they stopped producing stainless vanguards for the time being because they are selling the blued synthetic models so fast they can't catch up.
are they just skipping the targets for the same reason?
They stopped the targets last year as a cost reduction. You still get one with Sub MOA models but the regular Vanguard doesn't come with one.
Posted 08/04/200906:25 PM
Weatherby Nation Members:
Since the introduction of the Weatherby Vanguard, we have included a factory-shot target with every Vanguard rifle as a reassurance of the accuracy potential of that particular rifle. This has played a significant part in supporting our accuracy guarantee and establishing Weatherby�s reputation for superior accuracy in an affordable rifle.
Keeping our rifles affordable for every hunter has always been a key driver in how we bring our products to market. As I�m sure you can appreciate, including a target with every rifle is an expensive proposition. The rifle must have a scope mounted, be bore sighted, test fired, then unmounted, cleaned and boxed. There is range and personnel time, ammunition and cleaning supply costs to consider. It adds up pretty quickly.
Beginning with our July 2009 production, we will discontinue the inclusion of a factory-shot target with each Weatherby Vanguard rifle. However, existing inventory, both in our facility as well on our dealers� shelves, may include the factory shot-target until such time as those inventories are exhausted. In its place will be a letter from me assuring you of the level of accuracy and quality built into each gun, and reinforcing our written accuracy guarantee (1-1/2� 3 shot group at 100 yards when used with premium (non Weatherby calibers) or Weatherby factory ammunition).
All Vanguard SUB-MOA models will now be tested in our new range facility in Paso Robles, CA and an electronic target, as produced by the Oehler system 83 ballistic instrumentation, will be supplied with each rifle.
We enjoy an enviable reputation for excellent performance in the field, both in accuracy as well as knockdown power, and you can rest assured that nothing will be done to detract from that reputation.
Thanks for your understanding and your continued support of Weatherby. Good hunting and good shooting!
Ed Weatherby
They stopped the targets last year as a cost reduction. You still get one with Sub MOA models but the regular Vanguard doesn't come with one.
Oh, yeah, that really makes sense!
Ted
bad move by weatherby. that was a nice "plus" with the rifle and a touch of class.
so they start to make a lot of money on the vanguards and suddenly they stop doing it? i'd say it's more like they got so busy it was the "bottleneck" in the production line.
How much are they making on the Vanguards? My guess is that it's a pretty low margin product, and if they want to continue to deliver at that price point they needed to cut something that didn't effect quality.
+1 on what jryoung said.
Accuracy guarantees and factory targets mean nothing to me.
I'd surely rather have them cut out the targets and keep the parts of the rifle which really mean something.
Now if they would only make a LH version!!
let me put it this way...
if they are not shooting them, how do they know which ones are the "sub moa" ones? they told us that's how they "discovered" them, when they shot less than .75" at 100 yards while test firing.
so basically they're full of sheet. they grab one off the line and put it into a high dollar stock. so now its NOT guaranteed to be less than MOA, right?
They could still be test firing with electronic targets, but if the QC is high and accuracy is consistent, spending money on test firing and collecting paper targets becomes a waste of time at some point to their way of thinking...these aren't custom rifles.
TC
Never seen one that wouldnt shoot MOA, they just picked their sub-MOA by which ones shot
their factory loads best...
That being the case, they have established themselves as good shooters and apparently don't feel the need for the target inclusion. ( Neither do I..)
As far as the sub-MOAs go...your summation is just about right...
Ingwe
It was just a marketing ploy. They got folks buying them.
If they were still test firing them as before, the expense of using/including a paper target would be negligible.
Any meaningful savings would come by eliminating the cost of ammunition and labor to perform the tests.
Which tells me they aren't doing it anymore or it has been signficantly reduced.
That's not to say they won't shoot as well as the ones that came with a target.
I think that prolly hits the nail on the head JM...
Ingwe
I've become a cost cutting expert in the last 6 months after working for this bunch...
I told a corp. bean counter yesterday that we are wiping our azzez with out of date tractor brochures to save money.
Never seen one that wouldnt shoot MOA, they just picked their sub-MOA by which ones shot
their factory loads best...
That being the case, they have established themselves as good shooters and apparently don't feel the need for the target inclusion. ( Neither do I..)
As far as the sub-MOAs go...your summation is just about right...
Ingwe
I will do an Amen to Ingwe here.
I have two Vanguards, and with these two, I get 3 shot groups at 100 yards measuring 1/2 MOA.
I read a lot of posts about HOWA and Vanguard accuracy, and never saw one complaint about poor accuracy
I told a corp. bean counter yesterday that we are wiping our azzez with out of date tractor brochures to save money.
Impressive...you shoulda charged him a consulting fee.....
Ingwe
A machine rest, acoustic targets and a BoreSnake would eliminate the need for scope mounting, boresighting, scope unmounting, and collecting targets while still giving the info needed to determine Sub-Moa status and still save a bunch of time and money.
they stopped producing stainless vanguards for the time being because they are selling the blued synthetic models so fast they can't catch up.
Is that the whole reason?
I bought a stainless back in December '09 and it was the last one that big store had.
A rifle's reputation for accuracy is far more important to me than seeing a test target; that's if the rifle manufacturer decides to cut the cost of doing the target test.
Vanguard's known excellent accuracy preceeds the need for me, the customer, to see a test target.
Vanguards are glass bedded at the recoil lug, and the barrels are free floated when I get the rifle new.
Based on reading posts by Vanguard and HOWA owners on three different Forums, and listening to owners rave about the excellent accuracy they get with their rifles, I really don't need to see a test target with a new rifle. I go shoot the rifle and see great targets that I have shot.
I can see however, where a new buyer would like some warm fuzzies about the accuracy of a rifle he's about to buy, by looking at a test target.
Weatherby has evidentally decided to remove that sales feature, banking on continued high rifle sales without it.
YMMV
I thought the MOA rifles should have a target included.
Nice assurance at purchase that such an inexpensive rifle will indeed shoot well. Regards what you have heard in the past.
Shot one for a friend last year (.243) and was really impressed. My hunting partner swears by his HOWA .270.
Hard to beat the accuracy in a hunting rifle, especially for less than $400.
stumpy
My .300 Wby Vanguard test target showed a nice little three shot .88" group, and it has bettered that pretty much always since.
I've got a 270 stainless that the factory target was 1.4". I can cut it half with most loads and knock an inch off of it with one load. I would buy another without hesitation even without the factory target. I don't care how a rifle shoots factory ammo cause I don't shoot it.
i have had several of these and i love them. they are my first choice when looking for a new rifle. i just would like to be told honest info when we ask.
mine have all shot under the 1.5" guarantee, and 6 of 7 (i think i've owned 7...) have been under an inch easily.
no issues with weatherby, i just don't like change. and yes the stainless vanguards will be back, according to the weatherby nation forums. a source at WBY said they couldn't keep up with demand for the blued synthetics and so they suspended the stainless for now.
I wouldn't worry about it a whole lot. Here's the test target which is right about the maximum that they will send one out with over the first few shots from the rifle shooting the cheapest ammo I could pick up off the shelf - federal blue box at $20/box just to see how it did.
According to the employee over at the Weatherby forums a lot of people got the wrong idea from the test targets to begin with. The barreled action was put into a bench mounted vise and fired to produce the target and then it was put into a stock...which was good enough for me to see if the action/barrel was up to snuff. Apparently it ticked a bunch of customers off that it wasn't done "in the stock". I imagine it also did the trick to identify which ones were then put into a sub MOA stock and labeled as such.
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Nathan, looks like you got a fine shootn' three-hunnert.
My very sweet wood stocked Vanguard in .300WBY was bought at Wally World a few yrs back for $379. It had a 1 1/8" target that has held true for me with 180gr factory loads. I have no doubt that a good shooter with hand loads could improve on that, but I am pleased.
I have three Howa's. A SS/Syn .22-250 and a SS/Syn 7mmWSM that were bought new and a used Blue/Syn .300Win with a scope. All were about $350 or less, and all are good shooters. A cheap hunters dream, until Stevens and Marlin came on with their cheap tack drivers. Now one is hard pressed to shoot better groups with a $1500 custom than a $250 box rifle from Academy. Good luck.
I bought a blued/synthetic Vanguard in .30-06 at Wally World last year for $290. Tan stock.
Yep, NIB for $290.
The included target had a group that measured 0.89".
If I didn't already have a Weatherby Ultra Lightweight in .30-06 this one would be my primary instead of backup.
P
the one i just bought...shot a group while working up a load at 50 yards..tore one hole with 5 shots. this one will do fine i think
shooting the cheapest ammo I could pick up off the shelf - federal blue box at $20/box just to see how it did.
That blue box federal shoots really well in several of my rifles, little clover leafs.
ive got 2 vanguards this year both had targets.
ok in the interest of being open and honest, here goes. i shot my vanguard for the first time last weekend and narrowed it down to one load. then today i shot groups with that load to test it out.
my first 3 shots from a clean barrel went into 0.276" at 100 yards, one "big" hole.
k, i am done finding a load...check.
i love weatherby's products and didn't mean to disparage them, just thought they should include the target still. i guess when you have a written guarantee and a 0.276" group, the target would be redundant
this is almost ridiculous accuracy from a sporter weight barrel, factory trigger (unadjusted), factory fiberglass cheapo stock, not bedded, not floated, not tweaked in any way. i literally took it out of the box, mounted a scope, and worked up a load. this was my first bullet/powder combination, i shot 4 groups with varying charges of Varget last weekend, and narrowed it down and then shot this group. wow.
buying another vanguard next time i "need" a rifle.
As I have said before, usually can't beat a Vanguard, both price and out of the box accuracy.
i am really impressed. i had a vanguard .243 that shot almost this well but it was floated and bedded and tuned and i shot expensive Noslers out of it to get it to do shoot like that.