looking at possibly getting into a 25wssm winchester, and searching revieled the 25 wssm seems to be between a 257ai and a 25-06 on the velocity category.
are these hard to get to shoot sub moa ?
some cartridges are just plain easy to get to shoot and other's ya wanna pull your hair out.
they make a nice deer antelope cartridge ?
brass availability ?
mag primers or standard ?
lots of questions. for those that have one, fill me in please.
I have fired one in an AR-15 platform. My 2 shots made one hole at 100 yds. I remember the guy telling me he was running them at the top-end. I think the velocity was 3600 fps. Does that speed sound right?
I have fired one in an AR-15 platform. My 2 shots made one hole at 100 yds. I remember the guy telling me he was running them at the top-end. I think the velocity was 3600 fps. Does that speed sound right?
Just curious, what weight bullet were you shooting?
Thanks,
Don
I believe it was an 85 gr. Sierra. I don't remember the type.
Had one sent it packing...25-06 is better and .257 Weatherby more better
I believe "260rem" has about 5 rifles in 25 WSSM, he will be along shortly.
Doc
cool ....
hopefully he can tell me something.
like to know about loadings, velo's, bullets, etc.
I like the WSSMs. I do not believe you can make a case for them ballistically if you do not pair them with a super short action or an AR. They aren't worth it in a normal short action. Plenty of brass still out there. I've only owned a .243 WSSM, and I loved it. Most accurate rifle I owned at the time, did decent work on deer. Never used it for antelope.
Lots of people hate them because they see them as redundant ballistically and because some of them had feeding problems. I really think they are cool for wildcatting.
how bout a featherweight model winchester ?
any probs with them ?
i do know the case is really short and fat, and it neither is bettr than nor good as, other stuff.
but i have never owned one, nor a real winchester f/w, (remington person here)
and think it might fit in where i wanted a 257 roberts for something smaller, lighter, for shooting smaller critters than elk.
i have enough kickin cannons, and starting to look at smaller stuff for littler stuff.
Yes, I've heard that the featherweights, which were CRFs, not CRPFs have had the most feeding problems. But, I think as long as the feeding gets straightened out (check wssmzone.com for feeding fixes), the featherweight is the perfect WSSM.
25wssm was another brain fart from Winchester that brought nothing new to the table.
I think they were one of the most innovative cartridge introductions in recent times. The beltless Short Magnums had already been done by Lazzeroni and others, but the WSSMs brought a new case and new action size out from two major gunmakers. I wouldn't call it nothing new. There's really nowhere to go ballistically, so you have mess to with the packaging, which I liked. The AR guys are now jumping on board, keeping the WSSMs alive.
sortta like a ppc case.
supposedly they were to be accurate because of the design ?
Something like that, but in Winchester's tough times in New Haven, and poor quality control those last few years, they put out a lot of them that needed real help on the accuracy department. Good concept, poor execution. Seen all sorts of stories at the wssmzone of people looking for help because the gun won't shoot. Usually just takes a few tweaks, but some of the guns should never have gotten out the door.
asked the seller to cucle a few rounds to make sure it feeds.
i gotta go look up some data, and see what this thing'll do with a 100 grain tsx.
alright 260rem, where are you ?
I've got one of the featherweights with a McMillan on the way for it. It came with a nice hunk of wood and the little gun shoots and feeds just fine. Doesn't really do anything some other 25's wont do but I didn't buy it for that.
Not all of them feed/function well but you are usually only a mag box tweak away.
My little 25WSSM M70 FWT is a handy little gun. "Cute" is the adjective that comes to mind. It puts 120gr Factory loads into about an inch, and kills deer just about the same way that a hot loaded Bob or factory 25/06 does (duh!
)
I wish Winchester made the featherweight in .257 Roberts. I like the .25 WSSM but would be couscous of ammo and reloading supply availability. You know its the old adage, "You just cannot go out and buy that ammo when your in camp 500 miles away". I always hated that line...
My dad has one, I load 100 gr Hornandy's in it, it regularly shoots under 1/2 inch. Velocity wise it is running right around 3150. Load development for it was pretty easy, it wasnt all that picky. He it in a Browning and with a 3x9 Leupold compact, the thing doesnt even tip 7 pounds. He loves carrying that thing when we go antelope hunting.
I would say, without reserve, that the 25 WSSM is currently my favorite .257" cartridge.
I have 15 Winchester/USRA 70s chambered in 25 WSSM, including 11 that were purchased as "down the road collectables" and 4 that are shooters. I really like the platform and the cartridge, particularly the 70 Ultimate Shadow that is bedded in a McM Compact. The 25 WSSM offers a lot of performance in a short/fat package and although the Winchester/USRA 70 WSSM rifles aren't a lot shorter than the standard SAs, they are shorter. For example, my 70 Ultimate Shadow WSSM in 25 WSSM is only slightly longer than my 70 Lightweight Carbine in 250-3000 and the 25 WSSM will allow for at least another 300 fps over the 250-3000.
The biggest problem that I've had with the 25 WSSM has been that the Winchester/Olin brass is very heavy/thick and you have to run the cartridge at/near maximum "safe" pressures to get the cases to expand tightly into the chamber and keep gas from "smoking" the case necks. The only solution that I've found is to use reworked Federal 243 WSSM or 223 WSSM case for the 25 WSSM.
Despite having a few rifles around the place, the 2 CF rifles over .224" bore that I shoot the most are the 70 stainless Ultimate Shadow in the McM Compact and the 70 Super Shadow with a Shilen 1 in 14" ROT barrel in the other McM Compact. The longest kill that I've made with the 25 WSSM was a pdog on the Rosebud Reservation at 692 yards (lasered) with a 90 grain Sierra BTHP. My friend, Andy, in Piermont, NH, "borrowed" a factory specs 70 Super Shadow from me and claims to have made several 500+ yards kill on 'chucks in the Connecticut River bottoms in the Piermont, Haverhill, and Woodsville area with the 85 grain BST factory load.
Since the 3 WSSMs are now orphans, I wouldn't recommend them to the casual shooter, but for the guy who reloads and doesn't mind the extra effort required to rework cases, it is a .257" bore cartridge worth a 2nd look.
Jeff
Plus they are just a rebarrel away from a 358 WSSM which also puts a thump on deer...
Hey Jeff, how's that 25 SAUM coming??? (sorry for the hijack
)
what do you mean rework the brass ?
long day and maybe you explained it and i'm not getting it.
looking good on getting a featherweight in 25 wssm tho.
i think it'll fit the bill with what i was looking for.
what primers does it use ?
i am also going to need to get dies and brass,
i want to try 100 grain tsx's like my roy uses.
1 bullet 2 guns.
"Reworking" = converting Federal 223 WSSM and/or 243 WSSM brass to 25 WSSM specs, since Federal hasn't made any 25 WSSM brass, at least any that I've seen.
1. Lube it with Imperial Wax and full-length resize it.
2. Trim it.
3. Sort it by weight.
4. Load it and when finished, clean all of the lubricant off the completed round.
5. Shoot it.
6. Return to #4 and repeat the process until the brass is splitting/cracking and then buy another batch of 100 from the same manufacturing lot.
All of the factory specs WSSMs have 1 in 10" ROT barrels, so the 25 WSSM should work fine with the Barnes 100 grain TSX. I'm looking forward to shooting some 80 grain TTSXs.
If you want a "knock-about" stock for your Winchester/USRA 70 FWT, CDNN recently had a variety of 70 WSSM stock for sale for around $50.
The 25 SAUM project hasn't gone anywhere. I have all of the parts and the reamer, but haven't found sufficient motivation to get the job started, much less completed.
Jeff
gotta ask why 223/243 brass ? what's wrong with 23 wssm brass, or are you saying there isn't any around ?
works killin me right now, home late, up early. so i haven't researched much of anything.
80 grainer's huh ?
what velo's ?
AFAIK, Federal had only made 223 WSSM and 243 WSSM brass, no 25 WSSM brass. The Federal brass has thinner necks then the Winchester/Olin brass, so it expands to seal the chamber at less than maximum "safe" pressures.
Graf & Sons in Mexico, MO, was selling Federal WSSM brass for $30 per 100, about 1/2 the price of Winchester/Olin brass.
www.grafs.comI'm getting 3600 fps with the 75 grain VMax at less then maximum "safe" pressures, so I think that you could get 3500 fps with the 80 grain TTSX. That would be a flat shooting, hard hitting, deep penetrating SOB!
Jeff
oh !
nice !
looks like i gotta order some brass.
well, i'll wait til i get the gun first, just in case.
thanks for the info.
what dies are you using to do the resizing and loading ?
standrd or ?
was looking on midways site and saw a lot of different ones.
also graf is out of 50 count bags, midway has em tho.
does tally make l/w's for a wssm action ? or is there a screw spacing diffeance that standard winchester talley's wouldn't fit ?
thinking a 2-7 leupold would be about perfect for a feather weight, but what height?
low's ??
I THINK that the front Winchester 70 base will work on a WSSM, but the hole spacing on the rear base is too far apart. I have a Leupold 2-7x33 on my 70 stainless Ultimate Shadow mounted in low Warne QRs.
Jeff
I've got the Talley catalog right here, it's part #930739 for the lows. But they make WSSMs in four heights
splatter,
I think I have an extra set of talley LW lows for the Model 70 WSSM if that's what you're looking for. Shoot me a PM if so and I'll look tonight.
What are you asking for the Winchester/USRA 70 WSSM Talleys?
Jeff