Just curious, but with all the rifle fanatics we've got running around this campfire, I can't recall that many Weatherby fans? Any reason for this, or am I wrong and will stand (type) corrected if that is the case.

Just curious,

I can't get past the pot metal thing they call a safety...I try to like them everytime I pick up an Ultra Light version....Seems like you have to disengage the safety to open the bolt also..Another no, no in my book!

Just my .02

Mike

I picked up a Super Pedator Master on a trade a few months ago. Phenominal shooter until that pencil barrel warms up (5 shots). If I didn't alreay have 15 rifles I might like to check out a SBGM in 25-06.

SPAD,

My .257 WBY SBGM is a keeper. If you reload, it is the way to
go. It's just more rifle than the .25-06 IMO.

1B

How about a Weatherby Vanguard chambered in 257 WBY? My local Wal-Mart carries those Vanguard's now and sells them for $456, though, none of them are a 257 WBY. Once one shows up, it's coming home with me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pot metal safety, safety off to work the bolt, Mark V action to heavy, belted cases, overbore cartridges, overpriced, ugly stocks, poor triggers,..........lets see, what did I miss. These are some of the criticisms of Weatherby rifles I've heard and read over the years. Can't figure out why I like them so much <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Must just be stupid I guess <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I've got four in the safe and wish I had more. Oh, I've got Rugers, Remingtons and one Winchester. There's just something about those Weatherbys that I like. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jeff

Got two Ultra Lights and would not trade them for the world. Neither are weatherby clibers but that is another story <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Guess I'm a crazy too! I love mine and odds of getting them away from me are nearly zero.

I own several Weatherby rifles from SVM, Accumarks, Stainless Syn., Mark V Deluxe, and Custom variations.. from 22-250 to 378 weatherby. I bought my first Weatherby in 1980 and have purchased more than a dozen of thier rifles. All of them functioned great and were more than capable to living up to Weatherby's accuracy guarantee. I prefer the Accumarks, they are among the most accurate hunting rifles I have seen... with my handloads and I do my part all of my Accumarks are capable of 1/2 moa out to extreme long range.

I also have Remington, Winchester, and Ruger rifles, however, when I go out to the fields I grab on of my Accumarks!

Good to my word - I stand (type) corrected.

Hmmm, I wonder if that used Weatherby is still in the shop up the street... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If I could afford them, that is all that would be in my gunsafe. I like high velocity, I like cases that allow that, and I like their looks and reputation as a fine hunting rifle.

The vanguard is basically a howa design and made by howa. However, the design is a rem copy and not a bad place to start. the new ones have the m16 type extractor, just like the ed browns, and I really like that feature. I could never understand why weatherby put the front sling swivel right under my left hand. If I bought one, I would have to move the swivel and plug the hole.

This week I get my Wby Vanguard in .257 Wby. It started as a VGX model in .338 Win, but since I already had one of those, I had it rebarreled and the stock redone.

I can't wait for it. I have a box of Wby .257 factory with 120 NP's all ready. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Weatherby fan? Absolutely.

My SS/Syn Mark V in .257 Roy is my number one Whitetail rifle.
It's accuracy with factory 120gr. NP is outstanding.

J Scott

I have a vanguard VGX in 270 weatherby mag and I love this rifle. It is the one rifle that will not ever leave my collection. It is a fantastic shooter and my go to gun I love it.

I hope to add another weatherby to my collection. I will be a accumark probable a 30-378 used in my local gun stores after someone shoots it about 5 times and doesn't like it LOL.

Brian

When I began hunting and shooting,I badly wanted a weatherby rifle but could not afford one.When my financial situation improved, I bought two matching mk V's in 257wby and 300wby.After spending a great deal of time developing loads but still not attaining the accuracy that I desired,I sold both of these rifles.I was very disappointed that even though they cost double the price of my other rifles they shot no better than the others and in fact were two of my least accurate rifles.I guess that you could say that I was a weatherby fan for a short period of time but am no longer one.

I have 8 Weatherbys in chamberings from 224 Magnum and 22/250 through 378 Magnum.Never had a problem with them.

Those who have had "bad" Weatherbys most times just got a lemon.You'll find the same thing happens with Remingtons,Winchesters,Rugers,ect. ect. from time to time.

There are also a lot of folks who've never had a Weatherby or even shot one and still bad mouth them.You'll hear them say they are just rifles for rich city slickers who don't know how to hunt.I believe this is a carry over from when Weatherbys first came out and were out of the means of the average hunter.They were jelous of those who could afford them,so they bad mouthed them.I think to some extent,that still applies today,and not only with Weatherbys but with higher dollar guns as well.

All I know is that my Weatherbys are very accurate,are very handsome to my eyes and I enjoy hunting with them.I will be packing my 378 Magnum in the field this fall.

WB.

Ask to see the catalogue and have them order a vangard in 257 Weatherby.

I won't buy another gun thru Walmart.

Conrad

I've shot 'em. Love the 257 Weatherby cartridge, don't care for the rifles. I just can't bring myself to spend the scratch when I can build a custom rifle for the same or less. The other thing is I've never shot one that really impressed me in the accuracy department. I'm sure there are accurate Weatherby's out there, but I haven't seen one yet. Also don't much care for all those locking lugs. Looks like a nightmare to lap all those things into full contact.

Heck, I guess I just don't like Weatherby's rifles. Or Browning's either as a matter of fact....

I am a weatherby fan really for one reason: The stock design. While the cartridges hold no particular magic over other belted magnums for me and I am more partial to controlled round feed actions, I own two Weatherbys because they are the most comfortable rifles I own. This is especially true for hard kicking calibers.

Consistently the most accurate rifles I own. All of them shoot well under 1" in calibers 257, 7mm, 300 and 340 (2). If by some chance you wind up with a lemon, Weatherby will make it right. I realize that Weatherbys arguably produce more emotions than any other rifle out there and I can understand folks who don't care for their looks or the cartridge expense, but those who claim of their innacuracy, I suspect have an agenda. jorge

I wouldn't say they have an agenda- I too have heard of and or seen Wby's that don't won't shoot. That being said I wouldn't say all wby's can't won't shoot.

Remember the danger of usind the words "all" and "never" when talking bout rifles.

I'm sure ther is some of the percieved "elietism" that goes with owning one of Roy's guns but - today I really don't know anybody that can honestly say that because they spent the $$ on a WBy it means they are wealthy. (should be idolized) Look at the $$ you can spen just on the 24hcf rifle of choice or anything built by Echols, Miller, Sisk, Dakota ect.

I really don't care what pedigree the gun has- unless we are talking about the like of one of the ones I said earlier. Then I know why someone tells me 7 grand for an 06.

Teal: I stand by what I said. In my experience, they are the most accurate rifles ( on average) that I own. As far as the agenda, the "usual suspects" always show up on this one claiming they owned several and none would shoot. Sorry, but I'm not buying that. Have there been innaccurate WBYs? no doubt, but as I alluded, Weatherby will do their level best to make it right. jorge

Oh - I in no way doubt your expirences, I just do not know why someone would badmouth a particular rifle - ANY rifle. (unless that rifle blew up 9 times out of 10 injuring others)

I understand having problems with one but I don't know why someone would go to the trouble of making others think ALL xyz rifles are junk !


I love Rugers- but I had a 300 WM that just would not shoot (1.75 to 3 in groups all over the target- prob a scope prob but I just could not get it right- got a smokin deal on an 06 so the 300 went.) - got rid of it - I would never deny I have had a problem with that particular rifle- I would not then say all Rugers are junk.

I agree with WB COMPLETELY. I have 13 Weatherby rifles, 11 Mark V Deluxe's and 2 XXII's, and all will shoot better than the guarantee states. In fact all will shoot MOA or better. Oh, by the way their shotguns are great too. Lawdog
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I always wanted one but heard some much trash talk about them I never bit the bullet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I found a ss/syn in 270 weatherby at a price I couldn't pass up. That thing can shoot! Even the groups I shot while breaking in the barrel. I got kinda burned by some gunsmiths and got tired of dumping alot of money into so called "customes", that weren't. That MkV was a steal compared to other guns in my safe without all the work. I still have an itch to pimp it out, but keep fighting the urge because is works so well right out of the box. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I don't have an agenda. But I have shot several Weatherby rifles, most were 257's and one of those was an AcuraMark. None would shoot as well as any of the Remington 700's or the Ruger tang M77's that I or my buddies own. One friend bought a 257 FiberMark. Could not make it shoot to his expectations and traded it for the AccuraMark. The AcuaMark shot a little better but not up to the 700 Sendero's. In fact the only rifle I have shot in a Weatherby chambering that was really accurate was a 240 Weatherby built on a 700 action.

I know all about the one inch group guarantee, yes those rifles would shoot to that standard...just barely and no better. Heck even an ugly Savage will shoot better than the free bored Weatherby's.

Again, I'm sure some of you have Weatherby's that will really shoot. But I am not willing to bet the price of a Weatherby that I will get one that does. I'd rather hedge my bets on a Remington 700 and my ability to fine tune it. But that's just my rathers, your mileage may vary.

I like the looks of the Weatherby shotguns too. Why is it that I don't see them used at a skeet or sporting clays event?

The warranty is 1 1/2 moa from a cold barrel with factory ammo.My 257 Fibermark needed just exactly as much tuning as the Remingtons I have and like.
120 NP at 3425 fps and long case life.First shot from a cold fouled barrel always in a 2 in. bull at 200 yds. from the high seat on my jeep.
That's why I like my WBY. I've got less $$ in it than a couple of customs that stay home when me and the Roy go a-huntin'.

& a Pinto with the windows rolled down will get you from Dallas to Houston in the summer ... your point? Looks like your spending too much money, time to trade those custom 700 and M77's in on some Savages? ... What ... no? Didn't think so! Did larry or agree feed you that line?

Teal: I think a couple of the posts after mine proves my point regarding the "usual suspects". BTW, for the unenlightened, the Weatherby guarantee is 1.5" not 1". Sako has the 1" guarantee. The "worst" Weatherby I've owned is a .75" shooter, the best 3/8". jorge

Agree with jorge1, never seen a Weatherby that would not shoot sub moa with an experienced shooter doing the work with a proper load. Out of the box the Accumarks are the most accurate I have run accross. I am talking about hunting rifles here. I have seen Remington 700 300 Ultra's that would not shoot out of the box due to poor stock bedding....did I consider it to be typical of Remington's quality...no way...they are good rifles! I have a hard time understanding some "postings" which advise several Weatherby's would not shoot....I have owned more than a dozen of the Weatherby and shot dozens more...everyone capable of sub moa. The Accumarks I have experience with (either owning or reloading for friends), a total of 8 rifles, all shoot sub 1/2 moa and this has been proven out to 800 yds (target shooting 30-378's and 338-378's). I also have a Remington 700 SS 5-R 308 which I just bought a week ago. I bought the rifle to improve my shooting at long range (less recoil, muzzle blast to deal with) this gun will shoot sub .250" at 100 yards. I was so impressed with the rifle I bought another one this past weekend. My point is that most rifles I run accross can shoot, however, all manufactuers can produce lemons I just have never run across a Weatherby that would not shoot.

Had my Mk-5 257 wby for 20 years now...when we're hunting bucks and bulls, it's the only rifle I'll use...has never let me down. Now when we're shooting does..then it's time for the mauser, springfield, herters, ar-15 and other toys...gotta get a little blood on all of them....but it's Weatherby when it counts.

jorgeI I can see your point- I just do not believe ALL Wby rifles are shooters or all "any rifle" aren't shooters (Rugers come to mind).



I have seen some Wby's that are not. Buddy of mine had a 300 wby- he is a good "driver" and just could not get that rifle to shoot- he did not send it in but traded a guy for an a-bolt and $$ - I never saw the rifle again- I hope it worked for the other guy - don't wamt to screw somebody over, maybe he sent it in, I dunno.



Would I buy a Wby? - Yes They can be a very sexy looking rifle- that warrenty is there too.

Would I buy only a Wby? - No variety is the spice of life.

Would I buy a rifle in a wby caliber? - I don't know.... the 257 intrigues me as does the 300 but I do not know enough about all the gremlins that come with so much freebore (good and bad) . Plus unless I am a handloader the Wby line of ammo costs way too much - I could never afford to shoot it.



If I could find a Wby for a good price I would like to have one just to say I do, prob is just that finding one that I like. The walmart Vanguard strikes me as being to cheezy (stock just seemed really flimsy on the ones I handled) and I have no I dead where to get an accumark - that seems to be the one everybody loves here!



Maybe a question is - " Is the Weatherby worth getting in a non Wby caliber?"













regards,

Does anybody know if the Mark V's in standard calibers are freebored? I've seen one post on another forum that stated the standard caliber Weatherby's are not. I'd love to have Mark V but don't want the added weight and length of the rifles chambered in Weatherby calibers. Don't really need that much juice for my hunting anyway.

BigHorn,

No. Freebore is part of a Weatherby's chambering. Unless you order a custom rifle and specify no freebore (and the 'smith will do it ... not all will), any factory rifle (Sako, Winugerton) chambered for let's say 300 WBY, will have freebore.

Andrew: Great post and I also buy other rifles than WBYs. As to the calibers, you mentioned two of my favorites, the other being the 340. I reload too and that's the fun part. Up to 1985, Weatherby used to publish the Weatherby Guide. In it, they use to publish load data including a "factory equivalent" load using Norma MRP powder and Hornady & Nosler Partitons as those were the only two they loaded back then. That way I can shoot to the same POI as factory. The 257 is my favorite for deer. I have never seen any other cartridge "electrify" deer like that 257 with 100gr Hornady Interlocks. I guess I just fell prey to Roy's advertising genius as a young lad but I'm glad I did! jorge

Love the 257 Wby. Just picked up my second 257 WBY. Very, very flat shooting.

Here's my ballistic table for it:

Load 100 grain Barnes XLC
77 grains H-1000
Federal Premium Nickle 257 WBY case
Federal 215 primer

Calculated Table
Elevation: 4.289 moa
Azimuth: 0.000 moa

Range Velocity Energy Momentum Drop Windage Lead Time
(yards)(ft/sec)(ft-lbs) (lbs-sec) (inches) (inches) (inches) (sec)
0 3521.3 2753.1 1.56 -1.5 -0.0 0.0 0.000
50 3390.2 2551.9 1.51 0.4 0.0 7.6 0.043
100 3262.8 2363.8 1.45 1.5 0.0 15.6 0.089
150 3139.1 2187.9 1.39 1.8 0.0 23.8 0.135
200 3018.6 2023.2 1.34 1.2 0.0 32.4 0.184
250 2901.4 1869.1 1.29 -0.3 0.0 41.3 0.235
300 2787.2 1724.9 1.24 -2.9 0.0 50.6 0.288
350 2676.0 1590.0 1.19 -6.6 0.0 60.3 0.343
400 2567.6 1463.8 1.14 -11.5 0.0 70.4 0.400
450 2462.1 1345.9 1.09 -17.7 0.0 80.9 0.460
500 2359.3 1235.9 1.05 -25.3 0.0 91.8 0.522


Sighted 1.5" high @ 100, dead on @ 250 yds, less than a foot low @ 400. Retains enough energy @ 500 yds to be effective on deer sized game if you care to shoot that far.

What's not to like?

Regards,

Bob

"if the smith will do it?" If he does, he better have a good insurance policy. It is my understanding that it is not safe to shoot a weatherby mag cartridge in a custom barrel without freebore as the pressure will be at dangerous levels.

Wouldn't that non-freebore Wby rifle's dangerous pressure be negated by your handloads? But then I suppose you lose all the reasons to own a weatherby over the others (that being increased velocity due to increased pressure available because of the amount of freebore).

Whats a real world price on an accumark? I think the wby site has them for like $1700 (IIRC).

I think it is understood by both the 'smith and the purchaser that "factory" Wby ammo should not be used and handloads are the order of the day. I personally have no experience with such a chamber and it is my understanding once you lose the freebore, you basically have a 300 WM. Does anyone here have any experience with such things?

The increased velocities from Weatherby cartridges, are almost entirely due to their greater powder capacity and slightly higher pressure limits. "Freebore" is very easy to do. If it were a ballistic magic carpet, it would be in widespread use but it is not.

JimF

Ouch! You Weatherby boys get a little touchy don't you? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Man, what are they going to say when I tell 'em my 25-06 clocks 3500 fps over the crony and I don't need no stinkin' Weatherby. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

If you want a good fun to shoot all day 2506 check out the Remington 2506 Sendero. A little heavy but that is why God gave us slings. The 26 inch barrell cuts muzzle blast and increases velocity. The heavy barrell cuts recoil so you can shoot lots of rounds without fatigue. It also handles and points nice

Well com'on PDS, you didn't really think I was going to let the Savage comment go unanswered? Did ya? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm glad your 25-06 is a burner ... doesn't mean a whole lot to me, but she does sound like a sweet rig. Why is it so hard to understand that some of us like Remington, Sako, Winchester, and Weatherby. I happen to be one of those who like Weatherbys. Not for any special reason ... I just like them ... and I like magnums ... not because either are better, because I don't believe that ... I just like them. If you can build a semi-custom for the price of a Weatherby, please ... do it ... enjoy it. Who hear is knocking (with an extreme amount of bias?) your choice of shooting irons?

Oh, I really didn't set out to knock the Weatherby rifles. I really just wanted to state why I don't care for them. But I suspose I have developed a bad habbit of baiting my friends about their Weatherbys, which cost more, but don't shoot as well as their 700's and 77's.

I know, it's in bad form and I will try to repent. (right) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I almost bought a Weatherby once. It was a LazerMark in 257 with a beautiful piece of wood. But then, I came to my senses before it was too late. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

jorgeI,



Actually it isn�t a guarantee, it is just a statement of company policy. There is only one firearms company that gives you a written guarantee - [color:"blue"]Weatherby[/color]. Lawdog

H-S precision "guarantees" 1/2" groups with their 30 caliber and smaller rifles. The guarantee is stated on their website homepage.

I like Weatherby rifles and their cartridges too. My favorite Weatherby cartridge is the 340.

Landrum

PDS,

Would you tell us which bullet and load delivers 3500 fps in
your .25-06? I shoot a .25-06 and a .257 WBY and I would not
mind cranking all I can get safely out of the former. Both
have 26 inch barrels and the same twist rate so it would be
a fair base for comparison.

I mostly use my .25 bores on deer and a quick scan of my four
loading manuals does not show any fast .25-06 deer loads with 100 gr.
bullets in that velocity range, while many WBY loads meet or
excede that velocity.

Regards,
1B

stubblejumper,

Is H-S Precision a company that mass produces their forearms like Weatherby? We are talking about factory mass produced firearms not those from custom shops. Direct quote for H-S Precision's own web page is "When our custom shop technicians assemble these parts,". Weatherby is still the only mass production firearms company that gives you a written guarantee. Lawdog
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Really tho- at what point do you stop being a custom shop and then mass production?

I would consider the HS mass production for the following reasons:

I can buy their rifles from a chain store and not just from HS themselves.
HS sells many variations of their rifle which are assembled by different dept (unlike a custom gunsmith who works on the rifle start to finnish).

Would you not call a Wilson combat pistol a mass produced firearm? Available all over and yet hand assembled by artisians.

Just because a firearm is assembled by highly qualified individuals and not just hired labor out of the local job bank - doesn't mean it isn't mass produced.

Not tryin to bust your balz but just wondering what the "line" between mass produced and custom is? What would you consider a Dakota?

I knew someone was going to ask about that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Open the Nosler # 3 to page 164. 100 gr. bullet with 54 grains of IMR 4831 is listed at 3490 fps in their 22 inch Hart test barrel. That is the [color:"red"]MAX. Load [/color]

My 25-06 is a 26 inch Sendero that's been rechambered, recrowned, and "freeze dried" in the cryo. It likes 100 gr. Sierra bullets, Winchester brass, Federal 210M primers and IMR 4831.



My rifle will shoot 58 grains of IMR 4831 without signs of pressure. I make no claim that your's will. [color:"red"]Work up to Max loads carefully [/color]

I use the same load for deer and long range prairie dogs. Hollow points provide a better "effect" on prairie dogs but I like to practice with the same load I hunt with.

So PDS, is your statement that Weatherbys don't shoot as well as 700 based on empirical or actual tests you've conducted? the 100gr 257 Weatherby breaks 3600 fps in their factory offerings using Norma MRP. According to the Nosler book (#4) the hottest load with IMR 4831 is53.5 gr for an MV of3290 out of a 24" Wiseman. You are correct about the loading in the #3. It is as you say. The 257 takes over 68gr of the same powder for 3576 fps. There's no way a 25.06 will shoot as fast as a 257 WBY. no way. Is the 25.06 a more efficient cartridge? probably, Mine shoots 3/8" groups my bolt id one piece solid steel as is the reciever and follower. It's an Ultramark and a beaut of a rifle. jorge

It's bassed on trigger time. I have shot Weatherby's - I have shot 700's. The last time I shot one pard's 257 AccuaMark I killed a doe at a long distance with it.



MRP is the powder to use in the 257 Weatherby. It drove one of my friends nuts trying to find a load for his 257 when MRP was hard to get. He never did find another powder that his rifle liked. He eventually traded that rifle for a 25-284 on a Mauser action.



I know the Weatherby case will hold more powder than the 06 case. I know you can get more velocity from the 257. Weatherby than a 25-06, even the 25-06 AI. Is 76 fps worth ten grains of powder? And you did see the group my 700 shot? We have never been able to make the Weatherby's shoot anywhere close to that kind of group. I'd guess all Senderos won't shoot as fast as mine. But I don't feel the need for a 257 Weatherby when I have a 25-06 that shoots like this one does.



I'm glad you have Weatherby's that shoot well. And I'm not bashing you because you like them. If you like 'em and they shoot for you, good. Go with it.



I stand by my opinion; I'm not willing to bet the price of a Weatherby that I will get one that I can make shoot as well as a 700. A Sako yes, Weatherby no.



They are pretty, but they are just not for me.

To start with the term mass production was not mentioned in your first statement.But if you want to add conditions and still be technically correct,H-S Precision produces more guns than weatherby because they actually produce guns themselves.Weatherby sells guns manufactured under contract by other companies but they do not manufacture guns themselves.Therfore H-S Precision is a manufacturer of firearms that offers a written accuracy guarantee while weatherby is not.Weatherby would be a seller of firearms that offers a written accuracy guarantee.







Very well said.That sure sounds like it meets the definition of mass production.That would make H-S Precision the only manufacturer that mass produces firearms that offers a written accuracy guarantee.

PDS: I appreciate and accept you preference regarding the practicality of the 2506 700 vs the Weatherby. Regarding accuracy, your statement as well as your preference is just an opinion which is perfectly acceptable. And you have indeed a fine rifle with those attained velocities. I've just never seen a 2506 go much past 3250 fps. You have a keeper. jorge

When I was discharged from the Army in 1970, my father presented me with a left-handed, 300 Weatherby. It did not shoot particularly well, and I did not like to shoot it for more than a few rounds at the range. In the Spring of that year, I used it to take a black bear in Northern Ontario, at a very long distance.

My father was very proud of me and he died several months after that hunt. That rifle, as well as the rest of my rifles and shotguns, were stolen from me in 1980. I would give anything to have that Weatherby back.

H-S Precision, by their own admission, is a custom shop. They have limited number of rifles for sale according to them. Most times you have to order your rifle from them. Sorry but H_S Precision is not a mass production company by H_S's own admission. They are the ones calling themselves a custom shop. Lawdog
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

That is argumentative as to the definition of mass production.But that does not change the fact that since weatherby does not manufacture firearms themselves, they certainly are not by definition a mass producer of firearms.They are a seller of firearms produced by other companies.Reguardless,this difference of opinion about the definition of mass production also does not change the fact that the written guarantee offered by H-S Precision is for a 1/2" group at 100yards which is three times as good as the 1-1/2" group guaranteed by weatherby.

Well if you were in HS's position what would you say? Particularly if you know what saying you are a gun manuf. means these days with the horror dtories out of Win and REm lately?

As for ordering direct from hS - yes but I was in Sheels in Appleton WI bout a year ago and they had 5-7 HS guns in there and told me I could order what ever I want thru them.

You caould say that HS is a mass producer that offers a large amount of customization. Look at any of the class 8 truck Mfg. Kenworth will build you what ever you want as it rolls down the line! I read that they have a total of 1700 interior options/combinations.

I would still say HS is a mass producer- maybe their numbers aren't as high as REmchester but Bently doesn't produce as many cars as say Volkswagon but they are still a mass producer.

Just my .02