My friend has a transition (1948) model 70 and is currious as to what it is worth. I'm sorry I don't have pictures yet, but I will get some and post them asap. Specs on the rifle:

Stock: Professionally refinished (looks new), aftermarket recoil pad installed, The bad: hairline crack at forend, runs about 3 inches (hard to see, but it is there). Hasn't been bedded.

Metal: Rate about 99%, once again refinished (he says professionally, he bought it that way and doesn't know who did the work). Reciever is polished bluing instead of the original matte finish. Bolt handle is polished and looks like it is chrome plated. Non original flip down rear sight (redfield). No hood over front sight. Original trigger. Safety is the smaller transition 3 position safety. No extra holes drilled and tapped anywhere. Bore and chamber are pristine. Could some of you collectors please help my friend out with any viable information here. Thanks, bsa.

In the condition you describe, around $600.

500.00 would be my guess.

This is the best comparison I've found. I think this is still a little too steep for a non collector rifle:
http://www.gunsamerica.com//9441637...re-64/Pre_64_Win_Model_70_30_Govt_06.htm

Please correct me if I'm wrong, bsa.

Anyone else? My friend isn't a member, but he is watching to see what your opinions are on this. Thanks, bsa.

Its a shooter, nothing more, nothing less.

5-600

No offense intended but the gun has NO collector value at all wiht it being refinshed and polished... the vaule it would have would be as a shooter-hunter... Best I would say would be around $600 to $700 to the right person.

You can ask what you want for a gun all day long... it does not mean you will sell it.. That gun is over priced

Thanks guys, your help is greatly appreciated. Happy holidays, bsa.

Hard to say without pictures but I would say in the $600 - $700 range.

Not much of a collector gun, but that action makes a heck of a nice platform for a custom build........

600ish, that rifle on GA is way overpriced.

Jim

Hi guys, I promised some pictures and here they are. I had to make a 100 mile round trip to get them. Hope this helps, as some of the description was a little off: The whole bolt body, extractor, and bolt handle has been polished out. It has a 3/4" crack near the tip of the forend (not 3" as described earlier). It does have the original front sight and hood. I believe the rear flip up is a lyman and not a redfield (original should have been a 22G-3c (buckhorn I believe). Please correct me If I am wrong. As far as I can tell, the work is excellent quality and the lettering is still sharp from the rebluing. Let me know what you think, thanks bsa:

More Pictures:






[img]http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x401/chiefbsa/024.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x401/chiefbsa/035.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x401/chiefbsa/027.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x401/chiefbsa/020-1.jpg[/img]
And here's the crack, it isn't that noticeable in person, but shows up good in the picture.

New Pics. What do you think?

SOmething doesn't look right on that gun. From your pictures it appears that the serial number is 89XXX which says it should have been made of in July of 1948 but rifles made in 1948 should have the cloverleaf tang on them.

Yep, it is 89xxx. Made in 1948 (transition model). Since it is a transition model, it may have been made with both types of tangs. Hoping to hear more about the transition models from someone that may have the good ol Rodger Rules handbook handy. Thanks, bsa.

I just got this off the internet, it is interesting:

1.pre war 36'-46'-Excellent fit and finish, cloverleaf shaped tang, high polish or rust blued metal, fine hand checkering.

2.transition 47'-51'-oval tang, good polish and wood quality, still has front sights machined from the barrel. Some people consider these most desireable because they were drilled and tapped for scopes and retained the excellent build quality.

3.post war 52'-58'-good quality, front sights brazed on, less polish on metalwork.

4.late production 59'-64'-least desireable, plastic buttplates replaced the steel checkered widows peak buttplate, reduced checkering, poorer quality wood.

Here's a good pic of the tang. It is the "oval" type instead of the cloverleaf. I do believe it is correct for the year of manufacture:

I don't know where you got that off the internet but generally transition period means 47-49 and not all of 47 and 49. I have Rules book and that's where I looked it up, I also looked in Whitakers book on M70's. One thing for sure about transitions are that nothing is for sure! THere was a lot off parts clean up during those years so different variations would come off the line depending on what parts bin they grabbed that day. The odd thing is that the "oval tang was not supposed to have come out until 49 so I could see a cloverleaf tang being left over and being used in 49, 50 or even 51, especially in the H&H calibers but don't see how a later receiver could be used on a 48 gun. But then again with transition era guns just about anything is possible.

FYI I have quite a few transiiton era M70's as my father started collecting them and I bought the collection when he fell ill. After he got out of the army in 47 he ordered a M70 and they were so far behind that he disn't get his M70 until 49. SO he ordered what is now called a pre-war and by the time he got his he got a post-war M70.

The transitions are considered by many, myself included, to be the best M70's for actual use because they retain all the quality of the pre-wars but are drilled and tapped and the bolt handle is set up for scope use.

It is a nice looking gun but i still stand by my earlier value estimate of around 6 to 7 hundred simply because of the pad, the polished bolt and the crack.. Now keep in mind these things do not detract at all from the usability of the gun... That is still a nice gun but just will not bring the higher dollars of a collector gun. You may be able to find someone who wants a gun like that for hunting and is willing to spend more but I would suspect not much more.

I would suggest hunting with it and enjoying owning a good quality firearm...

enjoy

Thanks for your coments guys. I think Reelman is right about his statement, "One thing for sure about transitions are that nothing is for sure!" Sako, I am thinking the polished bluing on the reciever and the complete rebluing is the biggest downfall to this rifle + polished bolt (everything that takes away from its originality takes collector value away). A person could always find a nice all original stock if they put the time and effort into it. Maybe one like this:

All original with original sling, never been touched (just hunted with). Like I always say, wood can always be changed but once the metal has been messed with the collector value goes out the window. Am I right? Take care, bsa.

Finding the correct stock can sometimes be nearly impossible and EXPENSIVE! Especially for a rifle like that without the cloverleaf tang. Yes a non-cloverleaf tang is easier to find but then you also would need to find one with a low comb and the correct checkering and LPR on the checkering as these changed throughout the M70's production run.

I have been looking for a transition rifle that has been screwed up for a long time to make a 35 Whalen out of but I refuse to cut up an original. THe rifle you picture would be a good candidate but I want the cloverleaf tang as I just like the looks of them better.

Reelman: The "clover-leaf tang" is something that CAN NOT easily be swindled/riflesmithed/conjured up! The type of tang that is correctly/inherently displayed on this action I am certain was not made from a later style tapered tang!
The serial number and the action tang type usually go hand and hand - in this case and overall.
The year 1948 was THE year that the tang "style" began to change form the dual radius ("clover-leaf") to the "tapered" style.
As with most all changes to the pre-64 Winchester Model 70 there are some exceptions and variations to the dates of inclusion/instigation.
I simply have never seen or heard of anyone "changing" the clover-leaf (dual radiused) tang to the tapered tang.
Why - anyone doing so would incurr an easily detectable and significantly value diminishing bunch of work.
The tang looks correct to me.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Bsa1917hunter: Back in 1995 I began work on a "transition" Model 70 - I wanted to turn this handsome, safe and smooth action into my dream Rifle.
I did.
I had looked for many years and finally found a transition Model 70 action that was made the same month I was born (July 1947) - and once found I began paying away for a new barrel, custom stock and the Riflesmithing!
I chose a 25" custom high quality barrel and the caliber I wanted was 280 Remington!
I could NOT be happier with this Rifle - I have harvested all manner of game with it including a 13 point Whitetail, several Antelope including a 15 1/2" trophy, Elk, Bear, Mule Deer and more.
The three things I like most about my custom transition Model 70 are:
#1) The "butter/silky" smooth action.
#2) The absolute safeness of the safety lever - I left the original small "transition" style safety as was - I think this safety lever is the worlds safest (toughest to accidentally move!) safety lever.
#3) The stunning beauty of the action!
In your friends case he has a VERY attractive (even though re-finished) Rifle and I bet it shoots well and its again worth mentioning - a very safe Hunting Rifle that holds a LOT of bullets (six!)!
Just last week I saw a "piggy" (abused and altered) 1960's era Featherweight Model 70 in caliber 30/06 sell for $575.00!
Cash sale this!
I would estimate that a non-hurried seller could get $750.00 for the Rifle in question.
Personally I would take it Hunting (carefully) as opposed to selling it or further customizing it!
You are a good friend to travel that distance to aid your friend!
Long live the pre-64 Winchester Model 70's!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Varmintguy, my friend will be happy to read your post. I appreciate your kind words. Take care my friend, bsa.

Transitions are just that, transitions. They are a stepping stone from old to newer. There are lots of varieties and inconsistencies. Roger Rule states the tapered tang appeared at sn 87,700 approx for standard calibers.

ETA: Roger also states that 87,700 is the start of type III

The reblue kills the value of that gun. It is most likley $600-$725 to the right buyer.

Varmintguy, I agree that it would be extremely difficult, and expensive, to change it from cloverleaf to oval and also pretty stupid as it would lower the value as most people greatly prefer the cloverleaf tang. I was not trying to imply that anything was "messed around" with this rifle, just that it was an odd variety.

I also have a dream of someday building my ultimate rifle and there would be only one action I would build an ultimate rifle on and that's a transition M70!

x

x

OK let's try this again with actual pictures!

Here are some transition era M70's you don't see everyday.



375 H&H without rear sight. cloverleaf tang with type II safety

257 Super Grade Carbine 66XXX

22Hornet Carbine 88XXX Oval tang with type II safety.

257 Standard 85XXX Cloverleaf tang with type III safety

270 Super Grade 86XXX