My friend is looking for one for his wife, (yes he's set on a semi-auto). So whats a good, simple dependable make/model? main use will be Mn. big woods whitetail hunting. a winchester 100? they're thinking either .243 or .308

thanks for your input.

AR15 in .358 WSSM

The Winchester is no longer made so it would have to be a used one.I have had several Remingtons and no problems but have known people who had problems ,mostly they were problems solved with changing of magazines.I have heard good things about the Brownings from a lot of people but have never owned one myself.I suspect either one would serve your friends needs,if buying a used one I think i would want to shoot a couple of magazines threw it BEFORE buying to make sure you weren,t buying someone elses problem.
Craig

Depends on how much they want to spend. The Win 100 I own in 308 is reliable and reasonably accurate.
An AR-15 in 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel would also work.
I'd stay away from the 6.5 Grendel and go with one of the knock off rounds to keep cost down, like the 264 LBC I believe.

I have a camo BAR Shorttrack in 308 that I like but the 243 might be right for her.

What is the price range?

I have nothing but good to say about my winchester model 100, but I keep my rifles clean. I dissassemble it after evey time I go out shooting. I'm pretty sure they are pretty reliable even when they are dirty but I don't ever let it get that way. I was out shooting it a couple of weeks ago and shot a 4 shot square group that measured 1" at 160 yards. A guy I met up at the range offered me $700.00 for it on the spot (should have asked for a partial trade of his pre 64 model 70 300 H&H ;), yeah right ). I'm partial to mine but I've heard some horror stories associated with the model 100 regarding reliability, accuracy, etc. I just consider myself lucky I guess:




One gun, I'll probably never get rid of. By the way, the recoil on this one is like shooting a bolt action 243 (best way to describe it). Factory trigger has never been touched and it is it's biggest downfall.

Browning BAR...

AR-15. If the first shot doesn't do it, then she has 29 more.

Sauer 303 in whatever caliber you want.

DPMS in 338FED

No love for the 740/2 Jam-o-matic?

I would be on the look-out for a Ruger .44 carbine. They haven't been made in quite a long time, but there are always several for sale on GB. It's a nice light, compact, easy recoiling, hard hitting whitetail brush gun.

Browning BAR.

The absolute best!!

thanks for the input guys, I'm thinking they want to be @ $500 or less.

Randy, ya think he's set on the semi-auto thinking less recoil?

Reckon I'd be looking for a well-worn BAR. I'm not much for the auto's but I can dig the BAR.

If he could get off the semi-auto thing, a 243 in a Remington 7600(pump) or 260 would be the berries too.

BAR.

Try looking in the western part of the state. They're traditionally a poor seller in northeastern SD so prices are low if you can find one. Everybody wants bolt actions.

Forget the M100.. If you must go to a semi-auto, your best choice as to function will be the Browning BAR..

The rest, for the most part, will be a huge disappointment..

None here..

Yeah, my cousin's 742 is a continuing source of amusement for me. His 100 has been flawless since my tinkering - basically a proper cleaning and a few minor tweaks.

Hard to beat.

I own 2......270 and 7mm rem. mag

Benelli�s R1. Will out shoot a BAR any day.

Let's not start a pissing match. I've shot several of both rifles and the Benelli groups as good as any bolt rifle will.

Then don't make statements like you did. If you had any experience with a Browning you would know how well they shoot. R1 is going to be probably discontinued because only oldman1942 owns one.

NOW...You know that the 740/742 put your kids through college...haha

they sure are ugly tho'.......

If her shots will be less than 150yrds, look for the Ruger semi-automatic carbine .44 cal. The Deerfield.

My wife loves to shoot mine. It's not terrifically accurate, but it kills deer and cycles reliably.

That and guys do a double take when they look at you bringing out what appears to be a 10/22 for a deer hunt.

Well, there IS that.. Hehehehehehee..

Randy, do you know what the budget is? Would she even consider a pump?



Now, that I'd like to see.. The operative word in your statement is 'any'... I'm thinkin' you might wanna change that to 'some'.. That would make it totally valid.

I'm not a semi-auto guy, but if the BAR is anything like the FNAR it should be pretty stinkin' good....course the heavy barrel, free float, etc may make a lot of difference, but the FNAR amazes me in it's accuracy. No problem in reliability so far, but I've not been running it through rain and mud either....

Another vote for a good clean Win 100

Other than keeping it oiled, my grandfather never did anything to his for 30 or so years hunting in Northern, MN and he never had a single issue with it.

It now resides in my safe and apart from a crappy trigger, it's surprisingly accurate.

I'd go BAR in .308 with a 20" bbl.


.

The silly stuff you read on the Internet...

I have no desire for one but if I had no bolt action option, no lever option, no break action, falling block, pump etc...

If I was heading out hunting and all I had in front of me to choose from was a pile of my least fav "In the world" (the semi auto family)....

I'd stick a clothes pin on my nose and reach for the BAR.

But if you do now, you're more than likely gonna end up with a wall-hanger.. Parts for BARs are not obsolete..

Excellent place for it.. (A true understatement..) Many of those were pretty good, accuracy-wise.. The alternatives, ala the 740s/72s were not much more than pure lead-slingers - when and if they'd cycle using those crappy-to-the-max magazines..

Heheheeee...

(all the above, tongue-in-cheek attempts at humor.. )

LMAO.. I hear ya.. But I wouldn't need the clothespin ...

Make sure the wife goes along when shopping and gets to try any gun being considered. Some of the semi-autos are heavy. Without knowing how big a woman she is this might become a factor in her choice.

Jim

Browning BAR. I know there are other brands/models but if you want a reliable and dependable quality auto you get the BAR.

For shiggles, I've contemplated a BAR Lighweight Stalker in 30hotsix with a 2.5x on top.

Perfect northwood's jump'em-and-shoot'em setup.

I would highly suggest you contact Mike Milli at D-Tech.

An AR platform lightened up to 8 lbs all up in .338 Federal I could like a lot for a rig...

I'll second this, but say a 243wssm or 25wssm in a ar15 by Mike Milli of dedicated technologies would be the ultimate semi-auto deer/hog rifle.

That being said the 223 works fine for deer. A nice ar15 in 223 could do wonders out to 300 yards.

The Browning BAR would be my choice, but the ones I've seen and shot haven't produced the accuracy that is mentioned here. I've found them to be very picky on ammo and 2" groups to be about normal with ammo it likes, and even bigger groups with ammo it doesn't like. Now, I know not all of them are like this, but the one I had was, and after doing lots of reading, talking, asking, and listening, I discovered that quite a few other people have this same problem.

That being said, that's still plenty good enough for a hunting rifle, and everything else about the rifle is pretty good. All in all, I think it's a great hunting rifle, I just wouldn't expect tiny groups with it, as you may get them, but you may not also.

As good as any bolt rifle? Hmmmm, they don't seem to be competing with those R1's in BR competition?

The first BAR I had was a used 7mm Mag I picked up out of a local shop. The gun shot wonderfully. It seriously grouped just as good as any bolt I had ever owned up to that point. 1/2" MOA was possible with certain factory loads (I hadn't picked up reloading at that point). The accuracy of that rifle influenced me to "trade up" the 7mm for a BAR in 300 WM a few years later. The 300 had a significantly worse trigger and grouped the ~2" mark you referenced. I came to discover that the 7mm I had was an aberration in the accuracy department for a BAR.

I think if one is willing to have a smith work the trigger and cut in a target crown the BAR can hang with nearly any high quality factory bolt.

I have long since moved past automatics for hunting. I think they are the wrong gun for hunting applications. One rarely, if ever, "needs" a 1 second followup shot and if they do they deserve to follow the game for a few miles. I have nothing against anyone that prefers an automatic. There are recoil advantages to an auto that some people need. However, if I don't [/u]personally[u] know the safety skills of a hunter in the group that is hunting with an automatic I do not hang around them, especially when they are loading/unloading the gun. I have seen more than one person negligently discharge an automatic because they sucked at operating the gun.

An Ar10... .308

Armalite


I have a BAR in 338WM... My son loves it...

I have owned three BARs and have only had one jam while hunting. Of course, this is probably because I never once cleaned any of them. They are tough and are great whitetail hunting rifles. I am actually thinking of buying my daughter a left handed BAR in 7mm-08 - yes, they are available in 7mm-08 and this would be pefect for your wife. I had one in .243 and it was just pure joy to shoot. Mine were all accurate, but not as accurate as my model 700.

The Remingtons are a crap shoot, some are great, some not so great.

Many semi-autos won't wow 'em in the accuracy dept.. However, the vast majority of those, in these parts, are used in WI woods where shots are typically well under 100 yards.. For a 50 yard shot on a deer, 2" @ 100 yards is all anybody needs..

As to the perceived 'recoil advantages'.....it's mainly just that - 'perceived'..

Only if she's a leftie.. Leave out a couple letters there and you get: Remingtons are --- crap---... Hehehheeheheee....


Seriously, one of the better features of the BAR is the quality of the magazine and it's design re: install/detach.. They ain't cheap to replace - however, they WORK and work WELL.. As opposed to the Rem magazines that are pure junk, front to back.. Oh, one will work well now and then but ya can spend $100 easy trying to find one that does..

The ONLY thing that I've noticed over the years that is a rather common failure on the BAR is the timing latch pin.. Even so, you can run many hundreds of shells through it before that may fail.. It's a rather cheap, quick fix and back to business it goes..

Just keep it clean - especially the chamber - and you'll be golden for years..

Remington 7400's are reliable and accurate.
Might fit the price range a little better.
Gas operation makes 'em a bit softer shooting.
Carbine version is in .30-06...reduced recoil loads might still function OK, but would need to be tried.
Rifle is 22" and some of the wood-stocked versions look pretty nice.
My 7400 has been dressed up in different guises, but has operated 100%.
Accuracy in the 1.5-2" range with 180's or 220's. The 220's shot a little bit higher, but still vertically in line with the 180's.
I've been very happy with this little Carbine.
Here's a few pix for fun:

Got it in Y2K before my first AR15...heh-heh-heh.


Throws a mean fireball from that 18.5" bbl. Everything about this gun at the time was against common sense. Scope too big; bipod; pistolgrip buttstock; extended magazine...I love it!


In its intended form as a hunting rifle:




I re-installed the sights and a Picatinny scope rail since these pix were taken.
I'll be adding the oversize safety button in lieu of the 'J-Lock' that was on the 2000 models.
Keep the chamber clean and lube the firearm properly and it should work just fine.
I didn't see any recommendations for the 7400. It might be a cost-effective choice for the wife.
Happy Hunting.

My inclination would be to go with either a BAR or the Ruger 44.

For woods whitetails I'd just buy a Ruger mini-thirty and call it good. The one I had would group inside 2" with factory ammo and never jammed once in thousands of rounds fired.

Here's one that was on a CDN site a couple years back.

Poor young guy didn't know any better and was proud as punch when he posted this pic. That didn't last long when the chorus of laughter started.

Ooooooooooo-la-la... And with them sweet see-thrus too!!

Either he needs to buy a BAR or change to a Rem 760/7600 .243. There's a reason the BAR is considered by many to be the best.

No sir that right there is a deer rifle. It don't get any better then that.

I am not an Ar-15 or -10 fanatic in the least bit (I own a few) but the accuracy of uppers put together by custom 'smiths, like we like our bolt rifle, will likely be more accurate than the shooter on average...

But like you said, for deer accuracy, 2" is great...

BAR, shoots good, parts available, good customer service, and very light recoil.

For under 500 the BAR would work just fine.

A older used one in 308 would kill what ever she wants.

What about a Ruger 44 Carbine?


.

+1 on UGLY......

The recoil advantage is not perceived, it's real....just like on an autoloading shotgun.

Heheheee..


Ok, maybe an ounce or two.. So there..

I have had a bunch of BAR's, they are darn heavy...accurate however with tuned loads.

An Ar10... .308

Armalite...like handling an anvil.

You may want to consider a Model 7 Remington in 243, I know where there is a very clean stainless with a laminated stock in a pawn shop with a Bushnell 3200 3x9 for $495...no scratches that I could see. Send me a pM if interested...I'll give you the phone#.

I have had a bunch of BAR's, they are darn heavy...accurate however with tuned loads.

An Ar10... .308

Armalite...like handling an anvil.

You may want to consider a Model 7 Remington in 243, I know where there is a very clean stainless with a laminated stock in a pawn shop with a Bushnell 3200 3x9 for $495...no scratches that I could see. Send me a pM if interested.

Heavy??? Hardly..



It's $495 for a reason - and then you get them sweet (and worthless) Rem magazines..

The recoil in an autoloader is slower. My 30-06 Remington 7400 feels like a 20 ga shotgun.

About one of the ONLY semi auto raffles', I have ever cared to use was the Ruger "deerfield carbine" 99/44(or 44/99..grins)-- I believe it is called..

My grandfather used the rifle, it's chambered in .44 magnum, and perfect for woods hunting. It doesn't jam(I'm sure it could..), and it's light handy, and doesnt bother me in the least to beat it. My little lady(110 pounds) loves to shoot it..it's her rifle after all

http://www.browning.com/products/ca...content=bar-lightweight-stalker-firearms BAR Lightweight Stalker - they also list a Lightweight Camo model. That is in the 7.5lb and under weight range. Some of the other models weigh over 8lb bare.

Comes in several calibers from .243 Winchester up to .338 Win Mag.

I'm shocked no one before me has recommended the obvious choice: an M1 garand. If it has to be auto-loading, it might as well be a garand.

R-25 ....

I shoot a LW Stalker in .243 and recommend it for based on both it's light weight and accuracy. I've only shot the 95 gr XP3 factory loads through it, but it's impressed me with 2 for 2 dropped in their tracks.

Barrett Rec7

BAR Lightweight Stalker in .308 or .243

All belgium BAR, all the way.

Gunner

Browning BAR!

Would cost as much as a nice, new Browning BAR, but the Springfield Armory M1A; very accurate and very reliable in .308 WIN, and looks just as much like a deer rifle as an AR type rifle.

My advice, forget the semi-auto nonsense. For their price range ($500) you will have a tough time finding a good reliable semi. I think they should look at a new Marlin 336 in 30-30. You can even get the youth model 336 for less than $500 if the wife is small statured.

As mentioned, BAR lightweight in 243 or 308. I doubt if she would want a heavier semi-auto to lug around. Beyond that, we all know the semi-auto is over rated when it comes to hunting. A simple bolt will do.

I've shot two Browning BARs; one in 270 and one in 30-06. While heavier than I'd like they both were accurate with factory ammunition.

Browning BAR, no question, especially if it gets really cold and/or you have rain/ice. A .308 would be nice and user friendly.
They may still make it in a carbine model.

I had a BAR, now I have a Win 100 in .308. I would look for a Win 100 on GunsAmerica. Good luck.

Under $500, and he wants reliable AND semi-auto?

How about just teaching her how to shoot well in the first place, and give her something worth a f'k?

Hey, someone had to say it....

A Browning FN Manufactured and assembled BAR. With a scope you are looking at a 9 lb rifle. That is the obvious choice. I doubt that very many women can handle this much weight.

My picks: Winchester Model 100 Carbine with a 2x7 or 2.5x8 scope

As others have recommended a Ruger 44 Mag Carbine with
a fixed 4X scope.

BAR as stated above

Why must it be a semi-auto? For the novice hunter, there are just too many things that can go wrong with a semi-auto. If it were my wife she would get a light weight bolt action in 7mm/08, or a single shot in that same caliber. I am an old Marine, and KISS and BRASS (breath, relax, aim, sight, squeeze) is still the right way to go. Teach her to make that perfect one shot kill.
Get her to the range as often as possible.

G2

Don't own one, but I've heard good things about Saiga...maybe someone here with one could give us a little insight?

I recently bought a BAR shortrac in .308 Winchester. 6 lbs 10 oz + the 2.5-8 Leupold. Still working on an accuracy load but it has functioned perfectly.

My wife was a novice shooter when I got her hunting. Not sure of the experience level of the wife in question - I certainly would not want a novice or inexperienced shooter having a semi-auto.

I understand you are lookin' for a semi-auto, but if you or anybody you know has a bolt 7mm-08, I'd get her to the range and let her shoot it. It might make the semi-auto issue moot. The 7mm-08 is a very mild and well-behaved cartridge but still is extremely effective. Just a suggestion...

Puhleeeeeeeeeeeeeeze...

I Got no dog in this hunt, but I would give a + 1 for the old school Winchester 100. A friend of mine has one and its a hoot to shoot. My uncle has used a model 88 since the 60s. I think accuracy can be accpetable if you can work through the trigger.

But I would like to ask about the Winchester Super X semi auto or model 3 or what ever they call it. Its listed on buds gun shop granted in the 700+ ramge. Is this basicly a BAR under the Winchester name?

TFF

I had a Benelli R1 there are serious problems with the design that remain today as they were when the rifle was introduced.

I have a pre-64 Model 100 in 284 and it's a sweetheart. Nice trigger and shoots good too. Must have got lucky.

You got real lucky. Mine is a seeetheart too, but the trigger is a pos to say the least. You can get used to them but that's about it. However, I have seen some ruger m77 mkII's that were much worse but atleast you could fix those. I've heard horror stories about guys ruining their model 100 triggers by taking too much off. Some parts are hard to find for these old girls so I'm not about to go honing on mine . I agree with the others about the browining BAR as they are much easier to find parts for and the operating system is probably better. I'll still use my pre 64 model 100 because it is such a neat little rifle and it does work great and it is accurate. It's also a very nice looking semi auto rifle (unlike the benelli R1).

Understand that the M100 has been obsolete for some years.. When (not if) parts break you will find it a bit spendy to obtain replacements - IF they can be found.. A word of warning - take care of that M88.. If you break a firing pin, make sure your VISA card has a lot of room..

Um, no.. The SX series is a semi-auto shotgun.. And they were/are quite well made.. The SX-2 has a good reputation for operation and durability.. I had one in the shop just a week ago with the customer complaining of not cycling.. A quick inspection showed it just needed a good cleaning/scrubbing of carbon off the operating parts of the gas system..

I wonder how many people that recommend the BAR handload? I wonder how many rounds they have through their BARs?

I personally wouldn't buy one due the high rate of failure with the operating rod.

I would bet that most don't.. Like all semi-autos, the ammo must be within certain specs, pressure-wise, in order to allow normal functioning. ????? What are you talking about?

My operating rod failed after 42 years, replacement parts are easily available and CS is outstanding. My 308 shoot reloads great using a full length sizer. Great gun. I'd say the gun had at least 750 rounds thru it before rod failure.

AR-15 223 combo with 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC Upper. Or the new Colt 223/308 combo.

WildthebestsemiautohuntingrifleoutthereAlaska ��2002-2011

For shots under about 100, if it's gotta be a semi-auto and fairly cheap, I'd go Mini-thirty. I'd go with a pump or lever before semi-auto.

The Mini 30 was invented with the idea to be a light semi auto 30-30 equivalent deer rifle, and it works well for that role a bit beyond normal 30-30 range.

It's light, rugged and dependable... accuracy can be a toss-up depending on ammo and the individual rifle, but they are accurate enough, and I've worked up loads that will shoot sub moa...(and no, I normally don't admit that I load for that caliber...)

A real interesting option is that Ruger also chambers the rifle in 6.8.

Check out some of the high velocity loads available with light Barnes X bullets. They make that caliber a very effective hunting round far above it's size, with greater range and 223 class recoil.

There is a lot of potential in those two rounds. They were designed to be auto rounds out of the gate, and 30-30 level and up is not underpowered by any means.

223 is adequate if legal in your state.

TC

Personally, I don't shoot factory ammo in any deer rifle. So, if handloads will harm the gun, I won't buy it. That's why I bought a 750carbine in 308. The 750 doesn't care about powder burn rates or gasport pressures.

I know of many people that shoot the 30-06, 270win, and other large capacity BARs that have the OP rods break after 400-700rds due to the slow burning powders used and the high gasport pressures. Smaller 308 sized cases don't tend to burn slow powders like H4831, Rel-22, Rel-25, H1000, Retumbo, etc. that cause the high gasport pressures and high slide velocities.

If you stick to 308 based cartridges, don't handload, and don't shoot more than 20-50rounds a year, then the BAR will last for a long time. But, buy a 30-06 or 270 and feed it H4831 [or some other slow powder] and pull the trigger about 500-1000 times a year and you may have issues.

You still haven't defined what you mean by 'operating rod'.. That's why I'm asking what you're talking about..

From your manual:
"If you�re an ammunition reloader, you are responsible for personally assuring that the loads and components of your reloaded ammunition meet your gun�s factory-tested standards. Never use ammunition which has been reloaded by someone else!
Many shooters handload as a hobby or to save money on commercial, factory-made ammunition. However, it requires a thorough knowledge of reloading procedures and a deep respect for the explosive potential of gunpowder.

Firearms are designed, manufactured and proof-tested to standards based on factory-loaded ammunition. Handloaded or reloaded ammunition that deviates, either intentionally or accidentally, from load or component recommendations can be very dangerous." Further: " Not following these guidelines could result in severe injury to yourself or severe damage to your firearm. "

(Bold is mine) Then I guess you better sell your rifle - since you won't own one that can be harmed by handloads (your words)..

Oh yeah? Wanna waste a call to Remmy customer service and ask about that??

Ever heard of the gas regulator on the BAR?

But how long do they last with factory ammo? (laffin' here)


Look, I'm not a fan of center-fire semi-auto rifles, nor do I own a BAR.. But I DO work with them on a regular basis - and have done so over the last 13+ years.. And I can tell you flat out that BARs work very well with minimal issues; mainly, keep 'em clean (especially the chambers) and once in a while a timing latch pin will fail.. Not a big deal..

And they have magazines that WORK - as opposed to the crap mags that Rem puts out..

You can tell who has actually used and shot BAR's and who has no idea...

+1 (...but for $500? Ummmm Where do we get in line?)

Kinda what I'm gettin' at...

I have talked to Remingtons customer service about their 750 semi-auto about the ammo it can use and the longevity of the gun. Their qoute was along the line of "The 750 is designed to shoot any ammo available." That includes the Hornady Superformance, Light Magnum, Federal High Energy, and any other ammo that is available. I do recall there being a warning on the Light Magnum ammo "Not for use in semi-auto firearms."

Now, since the BAR is a semi-auto, that means you should not shoot high pressure ammo in it. Since Remington told me in writing that the 750 was designed to fire any ammo available, that means the 750 is a stronger better designed firearm. Don't believe me, e-mail Remington and Browning and see what they say about High pressure ammo in their semi-autos.

I can tell you from personal experience that my 750 auto has nearly 1000rds thru it without out 1 feeding, firing, or extraction failure due the gun or magazine. the only thing that stops it is an improperly sized case.

dbandit,
So what is your honest hands-on experience with BAR's? BTW, you still haven't addressed Redneck's question regarding the "operating rod?"

I've worked on a few BAR's myself and can tell you that the timing latch pin is about the only piece that I have changed. Keep 'em clean and they work just fine. I have owned several myself and now have just one and it works just fine. I wouldn't fire enhanced ammo in any semi auto rifle. They are designed to work within a certain pressure range, although I have loaded light ammo for a BAR 270 for my brother, after his shoulder surgery, that fired and cycled just fine. The last 2 years I have been shooting a Stag 7 in 6.8 and I can vouch for it's deer killing power along with just about no recoil. It shoots 110 gr Accubonds at 2750 fps and just plain puts the hurt on deer sized game. The fact that it shoots .75 groups helps, too. Ruger makes a bolt gun in this caliber as well and I can think of no finer round to start a young recoil shy hunter on. I haven't shot the Ruger, but I am thinking that it would make one hell of a semi auto deer rifle in 6.8.

Exactly what I've said for years here - the only issue I see on a BAR at various (and rare, mebbe 2x/year) times is the timing latch pin. A relatively quick and inexpensive fix. That, and keep the chamber like a mirror and you're golden..

Methinks you forgot that one word in bold No kidding..

So, you're saying the M750 is NOT a semi-auto?? You just answered that on your own, above..

Congrats - you got a good one.. A rare item, that... There are gunshops around here that refuse to stock that rifle due to customer complaints and malfunctions..

Oh, and you forgot to explain your 'operating rod' little thingy...

I need a bit of help on the timing latch pin as it is not on the PDF file I downloaded from Browning. It may be called something else on my file. You have me nervous now as I'm heading to Grizzlie country in Cody soon. BTW, the operating rod runs inside the recoil spring that the gas piston pushes back. Very simple to replace and I replaced the spring while I was at it along with a new recoil buffer. Thanx.

Hey Redneck,
If the remington 750 SEMI-AUTO is rated for ALL FACTORY AMMO including the light magnum and orther high pressure ammo, doesn't it make it a better gun than the BAR? What powder do you think Winchester puts in it's 30-06, 270, 300win, 7mm mag ammo? I bet it's not 748. I bet it's Win 780 which is a SLOW burning powder.


As far as the 750s being unreliable, I have never heard that complaint made adout them. The 742, 74, 7400 are another matter all together.


part numbers B3178002 and 3176002

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/images/barrifle.pdf

You need to remove the bolt from the BAR to change the pin. It is on the back side of the bolt. It is very small. On the schematic look for a small pin on the back side of the bolt. You will know if it breaks because the gun will not function. This is the part number B317631612. You can look here http://www.midwestgunworks.com/schematics/browning_bar_safari_light_sch.pdf When you once take one out and see what it does, you will know why it is so important.

Thanx, I'll check it out before heading out west.

The timing latch is the small lever-like item on the LH side of the bolt. The pin that retains it is only about 1/8" long, but when it breaks the bolt will lock back - and you're done for the day..
I thought that's what he was talking about but I wanted him to explain it.. That item is known as the 'Action Spring Guide' - and as to breaking? HAH.. In the 13+ years I've worked with BARs I've had exactly ONE guide that came in bent - not broken.. Yes, it's a simple and quick (and cheap) repair..

Not even close! Keep in mind you still got them wunnerful, stamped pos Remmy magazines.. AND, you just stated in your own post above this that the 'light magnum' ammo should not be used in semi-autos. And that goes for the BAR also - among others, INCLUDING your 750.. Both rifles can/will accept the same ammunition.. Who gives a rats azz?


Oh really? Don't get out much, eh? I could give you several names - but it's just not necessary.. One's a local guy; bought a brand-new shiny M750. It would fail to feed/chamber about half the time.. He sent it back to Remmy. Came back, he went to the range and yup - same issue.. Without the magazine the rifle would function nicely. Put the magazine in - PRESTO - failure to feed.. Bought a new magazine. Didn't help. Tried one of his old magazines from a 742. That worked fine. But by then he was so pizzed that he called, and talked to, the big cheese at Rem. Got instructions to send the rifle directly to him with a copy of the sales receipt. 45 days later he got a check from Rem.. This took the better part of six months - all the while (and before he bought the thing) I TOLD him he'd be better off by far with a BAR. Well, guess what? He bought a .308 Short-trac BAR and he's been smilin' ever since. NO failures - NONE.. Again, you're not quite correct.. The 740/742 models were the worst.. The 7400 is actually nearly identical to your 750.. But the main culprit of all of 'em have been the pos magazines - a very well-known malady of the Rems..

Keep in mind one other thing: that M750 has been out only a very short time and really has no history yet.. The BAR has been available for decades - and has a proven record of reliability and function. And, just to reiterate, I own neither - I just pay attention to repair records and my customers' reports... I also maintain quite a supply of Rem semi-auto parts on hand in several bins, vs. the BAR's parts which occupy one small drawer and contain 1/10 the quantity of the Rem items.. You might wanna consider that also..


Sometimes, bud, there comes a time when the hole you're digging becomes so big that you might wanna consider leaving the shovel at home in case you need to crawl out.. Just a thought..

As to me? I'm done with this thread... I'm tired of shoveling dirt back into the hole to try to keep ya from drowning..

I like the Browning BAR, I have a .270 that has been a great gun. I don't use it as much anymore but it was my first deer rifle.

Hey Redneck,
Call remington or e-mail them and see what they tell you. The design of the 750 is a whole lot different than the 7400. The gasport is in a different location, it's at a different angle, the bolt is different, the internal machining of the reciever is different. All of those changes make the 750 better able to function dirty and run high pressure ammo without beating the bolt into the back of the reciever and bending other internal parts.

If Remington told me directly that the 750 is MADE TO SHOOT ANY AMMO MADE, what part of that don't you understand? They EXCLUDED NO factory ammo regardless of manufacture or pressure. I also know that my 750 has digested hot handloads meant for a bolt gun without any issues at all and it has alot of cartridges thru it already.

How about a AR in .308 or .338 Fed?

(sigh)..


Nighty-night kid.. Don't ferget to say yer prayers..

Thought I'd pass along some reading fun:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3792718

And: http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?topic=132029.0

And: http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/guns/211018-troubles-remington-750-woodmaster.html

And: (read #4) http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder-keg/65153-rem-model-750-semi-autos.html


I could go on.. But why?


Enjoy that 750 kid.. Like I said - you got a good one.. congrats.. Might wanna buy a LOTTO ticket while you got the luck with ya..

I read those threads Redneck. Seems you helped prove my point. There were far more compliments than complaints about the 750 and most people said the BAR was not as comfortable.

You must really wanna see China..

Keep diggin' son - you'll get there..

By now it's apparent to all who've viewed this thread that you haven't read nor comprehended what I've written.. At this point, you either failed your English classes or they passed you out of frustration..

Bye bye..

browning bar, preferably one used, 15-25 years old. lots of them still out there. should be able to get one in very good condition for 5-600.00.

You can lead a horse to water... but you can't make him drink.

Especially if it's the south end of a north-bound horse...

And after more consideration, it's painfully obvious that he's being deliberately obtuse, therefore IMHO, he's a troll..

quote] Especially if it's the south end of a north-bound horse...

And after more consideration, it's painfully obvious that he's being deliberately obtuse, therefore IMHO, he's a troll..



[/quote]

I'm anything but obtuse. I speak of first hand experience of myself and more than a few friends, and the experience of the local guns shops. There are 10 guns shops within 50 miles from my house and they sell alot of guns over the course of a year. The Remington semi-autos far out sell the BAR and I have yet to hear alot of complaints about them.

Maybe you should get off your high horse and spend some time pulling the trigger on a gun you bad mouth instead of taking info 2nd or 3rd hand from people who don't know dittly squat.

Uh oh...

LMAO..


I'm done FTFT...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...e_BEST_semi_auto_rifle_in_th#Post5564820

Redneck, you keep putting off your move to South Dakota? But when you get around to it and experience your first East River deer season you will find that lots of folks out there shoot 740/742,74 and 750 Remington autos. Prolly about the same as shoot the 760 and variants. Kept clean and properly maintained they harvest alot of deer for those folks.Just so you know. I've handled a few of the older 760 pump guns and one of these years will own one just to experience it.When I was a kid the 742 in an 30-06 was considered the "Deer rifle" to have, but I was guilty of reading gun magazines and bought a 700 ADL in 7mm Mag. I got a lot of strange looks from old guys when I owed up to that, they just shook their heads and mumbled about dumbassed kids. Them old boys shot alot a deer with factory 150 and 180 gr Remington Corelokts and WW power Pts or Silvertips. conversation got kinda quiet when someone owed up to using Federals cause everyone knew that ment you got them at Kmart in Sewer Falls instead a shopping at home in the local hardware store.Many things have changed since the 60's and 70's back home but come November alot of 742 Remingtons in 30-06 come out of the guncase and closet to gett'r done again during the deer season.When I think back on the 140 some animals shot by me in the last 40 years of my life with a bolt gun, damn few couldn't have been done by one of Remington's autos or pump guns. Cut them a little slack guy, cause they aren't all a POS and some of the things you said are major fighting words where you maintain you wanna be. You have a good day. Magnum Man

The only 742 I've seen in South Dakota is the one my cousin in Garretson has (.30-06). I kept fixing it for him to hopefully limp through another season and told him he needed to get a new rifle. Well he never did and it cost him a nice mulie west river last year. It's just used up, rails battered to hell. Intentionally or not they were not designed to take so many rounds. Per him, it did work ok when it was fairly new. And last I heard one of the three magazines still worked. Maybe the one I welded to reinforce and adjusted to fit. I have another dust guard on hand I can install but I think he's embarrassed to ask. I did manage to get the trigger from just plain awful to not too bad.

Semi-autos are not popular here in the northeast corner of the state, said to always jam. People don't know how or don't care to clean them properly. A good friend (who did know how to care for it) couldn't sell his .30-06 Belgian BAR for more than $300 (guess who has it now).

When someone walks into my shop with any of the Remington semi's (except 8,81) my offer is always rock bottom. The headaches that go along with them are just not worth it.

The customer will usually, leave with an air of indignation, but within an hour to 2 hours he is back...meaning I offered too damn much!

MM, your advice to 'keep them clean and well-maintained' will work on the 740-742 only to a point.. Even Remington admits they were built for a roughly 600+-round lifetime.. If you think there are a lot of them in Montana, then you've never been to WI.. Up to a few years ago, the 742 was THE rifle most often found in deer hunting camps in this state - topped by them sweet see-thrus.. The vast majority of those rifles went to hunters who shoot a half-box to sight in, go hunting and shoot 3-10 more, then get put back in the closet until next season.. I bet a ton of 742 owners rarely go through more than a box or two of shells/year.

Of all the rifles I get in the shop for problem-related issues, the 742 tops 'em all. I have 2-3 drawers full of spare parts for those pos rifles but the very FIRST thing I do upon receiving one is to shine a light back of the bolt and inspect the guide rails.. When (the usual instance) I see deep chatter marks from the over-rotating bolt, I warn the customer that he/she's on borrowed time with this rifle. Once those marks get deep enough, the bolt will lock open upon firing and the owner now basically has a single-shot rifle.

The 7400 was a better design, and I know the 750 has been further 'refined'.. However, and this is the POINT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO MAKE WITH THE GUY ABOVE, the MAGAZINES FURNISHED WITH THESE RIFLES ARE CRAP, and getting one that works correctly and reliably is akin to winning the LOTTO.. By FAR the majority of issues related to jamming/failure to feed etc., can be traced to the magazine. They are CRAP, CRAP, CRAP.. Until and unless Remington actually DOES something about those things they'll continue to get a bad rep as a 'jam-o-matic'...

Even Ahlman's in Morristown won't do much with these any more - basically they now offer a conversion service to alter the rifle to a M760 (for around $200, IIRC), which is a much more serviceable alternative.. Many other gunshops won't even touch 'em now - and I'm getting close to that decision; probably by the time I finally get to SD. Getting these things fixed is getting expensive - and even though I'm very reasonable in prices it's coming to a time when it can run $50-$150 to get it to function, so I warn everybody up front what they may be looking at re: cost of repair. Some wanna go ahead - others see the handwriting on the wall, especially when I can show them the visible evidence of what's coming..

Keeping the 742/740 clean is difficult for most owners since the rifle must be taken fully apart in order to properly clean/polish the chamber and keep it like a mirror.. If not done, the case will begin to grip the chamber walls more and more and become difficult for the bolt to extract. What happens next is (at first,) stovepiping, then damage to case rims, then a broken extractor, and finally (if the extractor actually holds) the force of extraction will actually break off a portion of the bolt face - and then you have a wall-hanger unless you can find a replacement breech bolt head and want to spend the bux to fix it.. Most opt to 'retire' that rifle and find something new.

Spare parts are becoming ever more scarce - and my supply mainly comes from 742 owners who've given up on their rifles and I buy them for parts. That's going to run out some day too..

BTW, you were smart to choose the 700ADL.. I bet you've rarely, if ever, had an issue with it.. I also remember the old gun rags that swooned over the 742 at the time.. And I drooled over it too at the time. But at the price of $175 (circa 1960, IIRC) I knew I'd never be able to afford one.. Man, am I glad now I was broke at the time..

My very first deer rifle is one I still have and still use.. Paid $125 for a two-year-old M70 in .264WM.. It feeds perfectly, I don't have to worry about CRAP magazines, it still lays 'em into one inch at 100 yards (even after nearly 40 years) and I don't find 'chatter marks' on the guide rails..

I couldn't possibly care less what a guy uses to go hunting with. It's their choice, their likes, their hunting area, yada yada yada... But when someone asks for information as to a rifle choice I will be first and foremost honest in my response. The OP said this rifle must be 'a semi-auto' and for the friend's wife. I want the lady to be a happy shooter. She'll be most happy, in my experience, with a BAR if the choice is between the Rem, the BAR, or some other choice.. She's NOT going to be happy if she misses with the first shot and the second fails to feed from a crappy Rem magazine..

Flame away...

Dontchya just love the internet.. Where a guy whos taken a gun down no further than taking the mag out, is arguing with someone who takes guns apart for a living...

Dude, I knew when I was 16 the 742 was a POS. I then found out when I was 18 the 7400 was a POS. I'm not willing to figure out when I'm 34, the 750 is POS... Plus, it looks like you did that for me.

Why do you think he's moving? Look at all that untapped potential for fixing the best in the world.


We have a new super hero amongst us. It's Captain Redneck. Fixing Remington's screw up, one state at a time.

You would be hard pressed to find a reduced capacity magazine to make it legal but my deer size auto is an FAL and it easily does 2",but I wouldn't like to pack it all day in the woods. I've been looking favorably at a 458 SOCOM and it is both accurate and compact. Would be an ideal woods gun for me.

Nighthawk I was from SE SD back then in the 60's thru mid 80's and you saw alot of 742-760 Remington's. I bought a 700 cause even at 14 I knew what a good trigger was and heard too many of the old boys talk about auto malfunctions.They sold alot of them down there and back then bolt guns were a minority. It probably has changed by NOW. Redneck, I have no need to flame anyone who has the experience to back his opinions as you have.Just saying those guns were pretty popular where I was from and those guys could get pretty testy about them. I never owned one but knew alot of guys who did and swore by them.(maybe at them). Yep you also hit it pretty much on the nose about how much ammo they used and how little shooting they did. Magnum Man

My dad's family was from Sioux Falls and I went to grade school there from about 66 - 68 after Dad's Army career. Among our family and friends the only semi-auto I remember was what I think was a model 100 an uncle had. Rest were bolt guns, including a sporter Springfield my uncle Francis built for my grandfather when he took up gunsmithing. Shot my first deer with it at yet another uncle's in-laws near Montrose.

Not to say semi-autos weren't popular, just not among our group. K-Mart clothes would have been nice, ammo often came from there. Froze my ass off in stuff Dad picked up from the Army surplus store, on Phillips I think it was. I don't know what's popular in SF these days, seems to be more talk about bolt actions.

I know what she needs. Inexpensive, reliable, light, accurate as a 30-30, short LOP, and just fun to shoot...a good 7.62x39 Russian SKS...and you can paint it pink!!

I don't own a semi-auto centerfire yet, but I plan on buying an AR15 with a .223 fast twist barrel and also adding a 6x45 upper for deer.

I just happen to have a 44 carbine for sale in the classifieds,right now.

Best suggestion yet. Perfect for the task.

.

My Recommendation: BAR ShortTrack in 7mm-08! (or maby 243)

I have owned a BAR Safari 60-06, a Remington 7600 7mm-08, and now own a BAR ShortTrack in 7mm-08.

BAR Safari 30-06
Pros:
* Absolutely beautiful gun (Too beautiful)
* Greatly reduced recoil. (Like shooting a 243 bolt)
* Very accurate with my handloads. Would consistently shoots sub-moa. Average 3/4" groups @ 100Yds
Cons:
* Very heavy
* Was always worried about getting it dirty or scratched.
Dosposition:
*My best friend finally talked me into selling it to him. Used funds to buy Rem 7600.

Rem 7600 Pump 7mm-08
Pros:
* Free floated barrel = extremely accurate. Avg 1/2"-3/4" groups.
Cons:
* Very difficult to pump when shooting from any kind of rest. (Blind / shooting sticks / tree)
Disposition:
*Traided in on BAR ShortTrack.

BAR ShortTrac 7mm-08
My idea of an extremely versital Deer, Hog, & Cayote rifle for any terrain.

I just picked up this rifle last week so have not had a chance to shoot it yet, but if it shoots as well as the 30-06 BAR or Rem 7600 I had, I'll be tickled pink. It's much lighter than the Safari modles and based on my previous experience with the BAR 30-06, I'm expecting the recoil of the 7mm-08 to be next to nothing (we'll see). I've got it set up with Leupold quick release rings and can switch between a Burris 3-9 Ballistic Plex and an UltraDot Red Dot sight as needed. There are a gazilion 7MM (.284) bullets availabe if you handload and plenty of factory loads available it you don't.

I totally agree with everyone above: "For semi-auto hunting rifles, you simply can not beat a BAR!!!!". If you are looking for a semi-auto for a lady friend, or any one recoil sensitive, I simply don't see how you could go wrong with a BAR ShortTrack in 7mm-08 or 243.




firstshot
Make your first shot count..and the rest of them too!

Browning BAR in .308 (or .270, .30-06 ...)

Nice rifle firstshot. I'm getting ready to take the old winchester model 100 out. I've never had any problems with it that couldn't be fixed by myself: IE: broken extractor and upgraded the firing pin (as per recall). If I had to buy a new semi-auto, however, it would be browning bar though. The old m100 has some classy lines though: