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Posted By: nyrifleman BACO M-70 Question... - 11/24/11
I'm looking at buying a current manufacture Stainless Featherweight in .30-06.

Are all the new M-70s marked BACO? If not, how are the new South Carolina (FN) rifles stamped?

The new M-70 seems to be developing an excellent reputation for accuracy, so I'd like one from SC.

Any reason not to purchase a BACO rifle? (Aside from the fact that it wasn't made in New Haven? grin)
Posted By: PeaEye Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/24/11
Yes, the BACO-marked rifles are from SC.

The only potential drawback is the new trigger, which has the zero-overtravel feel of the 3-lever Browning triggers. I have one SC M70 and the pull was too heavy with the factory spring, even with the adjusting screw removed (the housing limits the minimum spring tension). If you get one that's too heavy for your taste, you might consider an aftermarket spring from Ernie the Gunsmith http://www.erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/i170.html (get two!), and maybe a dab of moly-disulfide at the sear. With those mods, I got a consistent 3 lbs break +/1 an ounce or two, and I'm very happy with the rifle.

Mine has a slick action and is a great shooter, especially for such a light barrel. It developed a slight warp in the barrel channel when the wood dried out to New Mexico conditions, and I had to add a little clearance because it was touching intermittently and throwing fliers. With that minor fix, it has been great.

The only think I might do differently is pay the extra $$ for the stainless version, cost versus convenience.
Originally Posted by PeaEye
Yes, the BACO-marked rifles are from SC.

The only potential drawback is the new trigger, which has the zero-overtravel feel of the 3-lever Browning triggers. I have one SC M70 and the pull was too heavy with the factory spring, even with the adjusting screw removed (the housing limits the minimum spring tension). If you get one that's too heavy for your taste, you might consider an aftermarket spring from Ernie the Gunsmith http://www.erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/i170.html (get two!), and maybe a dab of moly-disulfide at the sear. With those mods, I got a consistent 3 lbs break +/1 an ounce or two, and I'm very happy with the rifle.

Mine has a slick action and is a great shooter, especially for such a light barrel. It developed a slight warp in the barrel channel when the wood dried out to New Mexico conditions, and I had to add a little clearance because it was touching intermittently and throwing fliers. With that minor fix, it has been great.

The only think I might do differently is pay the extra $$ for the stainless version, cost versus convenience.


+1 except for the last part. I would very much like to have a fwt in stainless. I've only got 2, but they are both great: 1 is an Extreme Weather and the other a 308 fwt (blued/wood stock). Both shoot great. One thing about the fwt though the stock seems a little bulky but that isn't a big deal....
Posted By: nyrifleman Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/24/11
The rifle I'm looking at is stamped Morgan Utah. The SC rifles are so marked?
"Made in USA-BACO INC. Morgan Utah". Ring any bells...
Posted By: nyrifleman Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/24/11
Browning Arms, naturally......

Was this rifle produced prior to the SC plant beginning operation?
No. This is a new model 70 fwt. These rifles don't say SC on them anywhere. Morgan Utah is where their main office is I guess....My extreme weather is the same way...
Posted By: nyrifleman Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/24/11
Thanks much!

Happy Thanksgiving all!
Posted By: VAhuntr Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/25/11
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
No. This is a new model 70 fwt. These rifles don't say SC on them anywhere. Morgan Utah is where their main office is I guess....My extreme weather is the same way...


My Extreme Weather is marked the exact same way.
Posted By: ULA24 Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/25/11
Makes you wonder what the purpose in putting BACO on a model 70 is? Do they really need to put that crap on a model 70? I am glad the model 70 survived, but being associated with Browning is like putting the name Hyundai on a Cadillac.
Posted By: BobinNH Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/25/11
ny: I've owned 4 of them and shot a 5th....they all shot great,functioned well,and were free of some of the blips that afflicts some of the NH Classics.

I never touched a trigger (except to squeeze it grin and shot them as they came outta the box.One of the 270's and one of the 300 WSM's rivaled any custom rifle I have had built for accuracy.
Posted By: Oldelkhunter Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/25/11
Originally Posted by BobinNH
ny: I've owned 4 of them and shot a 5th....they all shot great,functioned well,and were free of some of the blips that afflicts some of the NH Classics.

I never touched a trigger (except to squeeze it grin and shot them as they came outta the box.One of the 270's and one of the 300 WSM's rivaled any custom rifle I have had built for accuracy.


That's quite a ringing endorsement. I just picked up a 308 featherweight, I have to say that it is made way better then any classic I have owned..
Posted By: BobinNH Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/25/11
Oldelk they are damn nice guns. wink
Posted By: nyrifleman Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/25/11
Originally Posted by BobinNH
ny: I've owned 4 of them and shot a 5th....they all shot great,functioned well,and were free of some of the blips that afflicts some of the NH Classics.

I never touched a trigger (except to squeeze it grin and shot them as they came outta the box.One of the 270's and one of the 300 WSM's rivaled any custom rifle I have had built for accuracy.


Endorsements like this one seem to be commonplace. I don't own a FN M-70, am going to pick one up to wring out over the winter and next spring.

If it shoots (and I suspect it will from all the reviews I've read) it will find its way into my battery.

Has anyone owned a BACO that wouldn't shoot?
Posted By: Fifth Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/25/11
Originally Posted by ULA24
Makes you wonder what the purpose in putting BACO on a model 70 is? Do they really need to put that crap on a model 70? I am glad the model 70 survived, but being associated with Browning is like putting the name Hyundai on a Cadillac.

I strongly disagree. I don't own too many Brownings at the moment but I have owned many over the years. Although my tastes have changed and are currently biased to Winchester, I think Browning is a top tier firearm manufacture. The BAR is by far the best quality, time tested and reliable hunting auto out there. I know a lot of people that absolutely love their A/X-Bolt guns. I'm not a fan but that is only because I prefer the CRF and bolt angle throw of an M70. A-Bolts are not cheap guns. The Buckmark is one of the most reliable & accurate semi-auto 22 pistols ever. The Hi-power has got to be the second most copied handgun design behind the 1911. A Browning made Hi-power is not inexpensive or cheaply made. The Citori doubles are renowned, quality doubles. The list continues. Browning is no Remington.
Posted By: PeaEye Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/25/11
Sounds like this is a debate about globalization. Browning is an international company; much of its manufacturing is in Japan. FN is Belgian. I prefer to buy products made in the US. I don't think we have much control any more over who owns the factory, it's all very fluid these days. It's very strange, isn't it, that the US, with its strong gun culture, ends up handing some of our greatest brands to companies based in places with tight limits on gun ownership, a thin market base, and ridiculous amounts of regulation. I fault management of the US companies. There's really no excuse for it, but here we are. Fortunately, some of the US supplier firms are doing great work and there are new US firms entering the market.
Originally Posted by ULA24
Makes you wonder what the purpose in putting BACO on a model 70 is? Do they really need to put that crap on a model 70? I am glad the model 70 survived, but being associated with Browning is like putting the name Hyundai on a Cadillac.


dude seriously are you crazy, there isn't anything more american in guns than the browning name. how many winchester designs made their way to our military. I can't actually think of one that was widely accepted. browning on the other hand, lets see, the 1911, BAR, various machine gun designs, some still used even today. sounds pretty american to me. IMO if not for browning winchester would not exist as we know it today because the guns that made them famous for the most part were BROWNING designs that were bought from browning himself. it wasn't until winchester refused to pay a royalty rather than a lump sum that browning took his designs to FN.

putting browning on the new winchesters was just part of the way they freed themselves from the aweful union debacle in new haven. they had to go out of business for a few years and olin who owns the winchester name had to assign the name to another company. who knows all the legal issues. so instead of USRAC, FN just assigned the name to browning another company in their umbrella.

to complain about BACO being on the guns is stupid, I take pride in knowing that union thugs aren't building the guns anymore. and better yet since the unions are not building the guns the money they are not collecting in union dues is not making it back to the democrats and obama.
Posted By: bearstalker Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/25/11
Yep. If comparing quality and money well-spent on a new factory firearm today, I would gladly have it say BACO on the side than Remington. bt/dt.
Posted By: PeaEye Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/25/11

So what happened with the unions in New Haven? I hadn't heard about that, would be interested in knowing the story. I just saw the results.
Posted By: Fifth Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/25/11
Originally Posted by PeaEye

So what happened with the unions in New Haven? I hadn't heard about that, would be interested in knowing the story. I just saw the results.

There are quite a few articles on it if you Google around a bit. The way I understood it at the time, Olin/FNH had to close down production for a certain amount of time before entering into a new licensing agreement with BACO. It was all orchestrated to kill off any labor contract and agreements with the unionized labor force at New Haven. To my knowledge, the South Carolina plant that produces the M70 is non-union. Olin ran into the same problem with union labor with its Ammunition plant in Illinois. Olin eventually sold that off as well in 2007.

Cerberus/Remington/Marlin is doing the exact same thing as we speak, re: union labor contracts/plants.

This quote is from the Wiki Page
Quote
Labor costs continued to rise, and a prolonged and bitter strike in 1979�1980 convinced Olin that firearms could no longer be produced profitably in New Haven. Therefore in December 1980 the plant was sold to its employees, incorporated as the U.S. Repeating Arms Company, together with a license to make Winchester arms. Olin retained the Winchester ammunition business.

When U.S. Repeating Arms went bankrupt in 1989 it was acquired by a French holding company, then sold to an arms making cartel sponsored by the Belgian Herstal Group, which also owns gun makers Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN) and Browning Arms Company.

On January 16, 2006 U.S. Repeating Arms announced it was closing the New Haven, Connecticut, plant where Winchester rifles and shotguns were produced for 140 years.[4] Along with the closing of the plant, the Model 94 rifle (the descendant of the original Winchester rifle), Model 70 rifle and Model 1300 shotgun would be discontinued.
[edit] Revival

On August 15, 2006, Olin Corporation, owner of the Winchester trademarks, announced that it had entered into a new license agreement with Browning[5] to make Winchester brand rifles and shotguns, though not at the closed Winchester plant in New Haven. The production of Model 1885 falling block action, Model 1892 and Model 1886 lever action rifles are produced under licensed agreement by Miroku Corp. of Japan and imported back to United States by Browning. [6]

In 2008 Fabrique Nationale announced that it would produce Model 70 rifles at its plant in Columbia, SC. In the summer of 2010 Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN) resumed production of the Winchester model 1894 and the evolution of the Winchester 1300, now called the Winchester SXP

Posted By: JMR40 Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/25/11
If you get one of the good New Haven made Classic rifles, then you have a good rifle. Probably just as good as the new FN produced guns. I have 2 of the Classics made in New Haven bought used within the last few years. One shot great from the get go. The other needed some tweaking, but now shoots as good as anything I've ever owned. I've also seem, and owned some of them that were pretty bad, so it is a crap shoot.

Of current produced rifles the new FN Winchesters impress me more than anything I've seen in a long time. I bought one of the EW rifles in 308 and out of the box it shot great. The action feeds as slick and smooth as the Tikka's. Some like a ligher trigger, but mine was just the way I wanted it from the factory.
Posted By: Blackheart Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11
I notice getting rid of the union work force didn't bring the price of the product down for the consumer. Just allowed more of the profit to go to upper management and stockholders instead of to the folks who actually do the work and make the products.
Posted By: Fifth Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11
No, instead we get a better built gun for the same price. Seems like a fair trade to me. If not for profit why would a company even exist? Perhaps some grand ruler could provide us all we need..... BTW, BACO/FNH is not publicly traded.
Posted By: JohnMoses Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11
No arguing the improvement in quality over the US Repeating arms rifles.

It was a good move for the new owners and consumers. The employee run company went bankrupt, so it wasn't like they were just let go by some heartless corporate giant.

They were running the company and it went kaput. FN just bought the rights to produce the rifles and use the Winchester logo from Olin after US Repeating Arms went tits up.

Can't blame them for wanting to start from scratch.

JM
Posted By: ULA24 Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11
Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
Originally Posted by ULA24
Makes you wonder what the purpose in putting BACO on a model 70 is? Do they really need to put that crap on a model 70? I am glad the model 70 survived, but being associated with Browning is like putting the name Hyundai on a Cadillac.


dude seriously are you crazy, there isn't anything more american in guns than the browning name. how many winchester designs made their way to our military. I can't actually think of one that was widely accepted. browning on the other hand, lets see, the 1911, BAR, various machine gun designs, some still used even today. sounds pretty american to me. IMO if not for browning winchester would not exist as we know it today because the guns that made them famous for the most part were BROWNING designs that were bought from browning himself. it wasn't until winchester refused to pay a royalty rather than a lump sum that browning took his designs to FN.

putting browning on the new winchesters was just part of the way they freed themselves from the aweful union debacle in new haven. they had to go out of business for a few years and olin who owns the winchester name had to assign the name to another company. who knows all the legal issues. so instead of USRAC, FN just assigned the name to browning another company in their umbrella.

to complain about BACO being on the guns is stupid, I take pride in knowing that union thugs aren't building the guns anymore. and better yet since the unions are not building the guns the money they are not collecting in union dues is not making it back to the democrats and obama.



Dude, the question is are you crazy? Browning rifles have gone straight down the toilet. The Japanese Browning A-Hole rifle was and is an over engineered pot metal piece of crap, with more pins and springs and lousy design than anything out there. I have two Belgian Brownings, and Browning rifles have gone straight down hill after they were discontinued. John Browning would be totally ashamed at what has happened to his once great company. I am not refering to military rifles, and I don't care about unions. I am talking purely about the great Winchester model 70 being associated with the sewage that Browning pumps out to the public
Posted By: JohnMoses Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11
Gosh, I've killed a lot of critters with the sewage Browning produces and never had a problem.

Are you sure? Mine don't seem to smell bad???

Laffin.

Another goober who claims to be able to read the minds of dead folks...
Posted By: ULA24 Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11
Originally Posted by PeaEye
Sounds like this is a debate about globalization. Browning is an international company; much of its manufacturing is in Japan. FN is Belgian. I prefer to buy products made in the US. I don't think we have much control any more over who owns the factory, it's all very fluid these days. It's very strange, isn't it, that the US, with its strong gun culture, ends up handing some of our greatest brands to companies based in places with tight limits on gun ownership, a thin market base, and ridiculous amounts of regulation. I fault management of the US companies. There's really no excuse for it, but here we are. Fortunately, some of the US supplier firms are doing great work and there are new US firms entering the market.


+1
Posted By: ULA24 Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11
Originally Posted by JohnMoses
Gosh, I've killed a lot of critters with the sewage Browning produces and never had a problem.

Are you sure? Mine don't seem to smell bad???

Laffin.

Another goober who claims to be able to read the minds of dead folks...


Your not Laffin as hard as me. Pretty much everyone here knows that you rank right up there with Swampman700 in the goober category. The A-Bolts are a design abomination. The fact that you can't figure that out, and that it doesn't matter to you, or you just don't know any better, speaks volumes.
Posted By: PeaEye Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11

And just to be clear, I bought a blued one and would buy a stainless next time.
Posted By: nyrifleman Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11
Originally Posted by ULA24
Originally Posted by JohnMoses
Gosh, I've killed a lot of critters with the sewage Browning produces and never had a problem.

Are you sure? Mine don't seem to smell bad???

Laffin.

Another goober who claims to be able to read the minds of dead folks...


Your not Laffin as hard as me. Pretty much everyone here knows that you rank right up there with Swampman700 in the goober category. The A-Bolts are a design abomination. The fact that you can't figure that out, and that it doesn't matter to you, or you just don't know any better, speaks volumes.


I've had two A-Bolts, a .308 and a .270. Both were .5 MOA shooters with handloads. I traded them off when I decided to put together a uniform battery around the three position M-70 safety.

What exactly makes them a design abomination?
Posted By: Redneck Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11
Originally Posted by nyrifleman
I'm looking at buying a current manufacture Stainless Featherweight in .30-06.

Are all the new M-70s marked BACO? If not, how are the new South Carolina (FN) rifles stamped?

The new M-70 seems to be developing an excellent reputation for accuracy, so I'd like one from SC.
From what I've read on various tests, accuracy is the same hit/miss one received from many NH rifles..

Quote
Any reason not to purchase a BACO rifle?
Yeah - that stupid-azzed MOA trigger...
Posted By: xwe666 Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11
The 3 FN mod 70 that I got are really accurate and they function perfectly.I've look at many rifle and those new mod 70 are right there with the best for built quality.
Originally Posted by PeaEye

And just to be clear, I bought a blued one and would buy a stainless next time.


Got ya. I did the same thing, except I went the extra step and bought an extreme weather. Don't regret that decision at all.
Posted By: nyrifleman Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11
Quote
Any reason not to purchase a BACO rifle?
Quote
Yeah - that stupid-azzed MOA trigger...


Lee, I knew you'd say that grin
Posted By: JohnMoses Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/26/11
ULA claims to know what dead folks think and is basically full of more schit than a packed feed lot.

He is to be pitied though, not ridiculed.

I know I'm not telling folks anything they don't already know about poor ULA, but try not to make fun of him and the fact that his momma and doctor make him wear a helmet for his own protection...

God speed ULA. Don't let those evil Brownings get you.

grin

Posted By: ULA24 Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/27/11
Originally Posted by JohnMoses
ULA claims to know what dead folks think and is basically full of more schit than a packed feed lot.

He is to be pitied though, not ridiculed.

I know I'm not telling folks anything they don't already know about poor ULA, but try not to make fun of him and the fact that his momma and doctor make him wear a helmet for his own protection...

God speed ULA. Don't let those evil Brownings get you.

grin



Come on dude, that wasn't even funny. Is that the best you got? You are the one who shoots Browning rifles, so that makes you the drooling helmet wearing imbecile. Sad thing is, you don't even know enough about rifles to know why they suck. Look at your post count dude. Sell a couple of your lousy A-Bolts amd buy a life.
Posted By: JohnMoses Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/27/11
The fact that you exist is humor enough for all.

I have a 600 yd range. Come down and stick an dunce hat on top of your helmet.

If I knock it off I win. If I center punch you in the chest you win.

Fair enough? grin
Posted By: ULA24 Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/27/11
At least that was funny!
Originally Posted by nyrifleman
Quote
Any reason not to purchase a BACO rifle?
Quote
Yeah - that stupid-azzed MOA trigger...


Lee, I knew you'd say that grin


We all knew he'd say that... whistle
Posted By: KDK Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/27/11
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by nyrifleman
Quote
Any reason not to purchase a BACO rifle?
Quote
Yeah - that stupid-azzed MOA trigger...


Lee, I knew you'd say that grin


We all knew he'd say that... whistle


I think Redneck has a hot key on his keyboard that automatically writes that... saves typing! smile
Posted By: JohnMoses Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/27/11
He sent me a PM. He actually loves the MOA trigger.
Question on the Extreme Weather as I am thinking about getting one in .300 WSM if I don't go the Sako route.

Can you drop a cartridge in the chamber and just close the bolt on it? Or do you have to feed it from the magazine? They won't let me try that in the stores smile

Thanks. Bob.

I found the answer in a Model 70 owners manual on the internet. You can load the magazine and then drop one in the chamber, to get you 3+1, but they suggest if single loading to let it load from the magazine.

I'm sure most of you know this already, but in case someone else is as unfamiliar with Winchesters as I am, there you go.

Bob.
Posted By: Fifth Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/27/11
fishybobtrout: I believe all Mauser style extractors have beveled forward edges on the claw to allow the extractor to snap over the top of the rim when not loading out of the mag.
Fifth,

I had read that some of the controlled round feed guns have to load from the mag, and that some can be single loaded. My personal experience has only been with push feed rifles, so I was not sure, just checking before I plop down my 1k for a rifle. Thanks.

Bob.
Originally Posted by JohnMoses
He sent me a PM. He actually loves the MOA trigger.


Oh sure I believe you whistle
Originally Posted by fishybobtrout
Question on the Extreme Weather as I am thinking about getting one in .300 WSM if I don't go the Sako route.

Can you drop a cartridge in the chamber and just close the bolt on it? Or do you have to feed it from the magazine? They won't let me try that in the stores smile

Thanks. Bob.

I found the answer in a Model 70 owners manual on the internet. You can load the magazine and then drop one in the chamber, to get you 3+1, but they suggest if single loading to let it load from the magazine.

I'm sure most of you know this already, but in case someone else is as unfamiliar with Winchesters as I am, there you go.

Bob.


Mine works great if i drop one into the chamber.
Posted By: Fifth Re: BACO M-70 Question... - 11/28/11
Originally Posted by fishybobtrout
Fifth,

I had read that some of the controlled round feed guns have to load from the mag, and that some can be single loaded. My personal experience has only been with push feed rifles, so I was not sure, just checking before I plop down my 1k for a rifle. Thanks.

Bob.

No worries. It was an issue on some earlier Mauser versions but has been a design function for a long time, at least 1898 on. I have read about some people back in the day having issues with extractors breaking while snapping the extractor over the rim. I think this was a manufacturing and steel quality issue back then. No modern firearm with a Mauser style extractor should have any issues.
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