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Posted By: ringworm 22LR and the whitetail skull - 02/14/12
FINALLY got confirmation from the Director of DNR in SC...

Quote
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 8:28 AM
To: Charles Ruth
Subject: deer regulations on private lands


Mr. Ruth,
Would you please direct me to the specific code in SC law or DNR regulations pertaining to the minimum caliber LEGALLY allowed for harvesting deer on private lands?
I am unable to find anything that prohibits the use of rimfire weapons on private lands.
I am not interested in what the DNR consideres ethical. I know hunters who could not make a clean kill with a 300 winchester magnum and I know hunters who could use a 22LR and drop every deer they need.
What I am looking for is very specific language that either allows or prohibits the use of rimfires, not an ethics debate.
Thanks you in advance.

REPLY
Quote
There is no such law or regulation for private land.


That said, historically there was a regulation that applied to WMA lands statewide and to private land in Game Zones 1 and 2 that prohibited using FMJ bullets or .22 rimfire or smaller for big game. However, the general assembly removed this restriction on private land a couple of years ago.


The wording related to WMA�s can be found on page 31 of the Rules and Regs brochure and states:
3.3 On WMA lands, big game hunters are not allowed to use military or hard-jacketed bullets or .22 or smaller rimfire.


Again, this used to apply to private land but no longer does.


Let me know if you have any other questions.
Charles Ruth
Certified Wildlife Biologist
Deer & Wild Turkey Program Coordinator
SC Dept. of Natural Resources
P. O. Box 167
Columbia, SC 29202-0167

What is going to be the most effective 22LR bullet fired?

It is 100% legal for me to use a 22LR. I am hunting on my land. my shooting position is at a 20 degree downward angle at 0-50 yards MAX.
Im sure some of you will not be able to contain yourselves and must comment about how its unethical to shoot a deer with a 22LR. margin of error ect ect ect.
I am talking about 40 yard MAX shots. I have a sandbagged fixed position to shoot from. Compared to a person taking a 200 yard shot with any centerfire the same margin of error could result in a blown off jaw or leg just as easy.
Digital Dan is your huckleberry.
I've killed an awful lot of stuff with Remington Yellow Jackets. That said, they don't always group well in all weapons. You are going to want a high level of accuracy and precision. CCI MiniMags and maybe Velocitors should round out the list of ammunition I'd set up for.
Posted By: cal74 Re: 22LR and the whitetail skull - 02/14/12
WHY?

Does it matter? I've never shot a deer in the skull with a .22lr. But have killed quite a few cattle with it. The critical spot to hit is easily penetrated. I think all the cattle I dispatched were probably shot with Blazer lead points.

For the kind of precise brain shot you are talking about a fancy .22lr in the wrong spot won't work anyway. Hit the right spot and a .22 short will do it.
Close neighbors and depridating whitetails. (If I remember his earlier thread correctly.)
probably been more deer killed with a .22 than any other caliber....
The CCI Minimag would be a good choice....or any other high velosity hollowpoint bullets.

I would NOT use any of the hyper velosity rounds (Velociter, Yellow jackets, or Stingers) as these rounds are designed to expand rapidly and can fail to penetrate enough on larger game.

I have.....errrr....heard rumors....that the .22 LR is very effective against whitetails with both head and body shots, but the hyper-velosity rounds are asking for trouble.

Be prepared for the deer to run a ways with a body shot and NOT leave much of a blood trail. It will die just fine but unless you are an excellent tracker or use dogs to help with recovery don't try it.......ahhhh, so I've heard anyway!
Brain shots with a 22LR have killed many whitetail. 40 yds from an elevated solid position should be easily accomplished. I personally have only used 40gr solids in this role. I was much younger and had not yet learned that a head shot required major foot pounds.

The deer on your private land (like on mine) are probably not harrassed and so are not vigilant. This makes the shot unrushed and controlled. I have never lost a deer to a 22LR because the shots are always appropriate. The deer drops and often other deer close by sniff and paw at their dead companion without startling. Enjoy the venison.
I'll take the bait...I wouldn't even hunt a coyote with a .22, let alone a deer. Even a 22 Hornet, 218 Bee etc would be a better choice.
We tested a 22lr on a mature doe skull once(hide still on) and most all bullets that hit at an angle deflected off the skull. A perfectly flat hit was better, but how likely is that to happen. If I were to even try it(not legal here), it would be neck shots right under the head. The 22LR does the same on a hog's skull, but if you shoot them in the neck it kills them stone dead.
Originally Posted by dogcatcher223
I'll take the bait...I wouldn't even hunt a coyote with a .22, let alone a deer. Even a 22 Hornet, 218 Bee etc would be a better choice.
I have killed many a dog and coyote with a .22lr stinger....more often than not it was a drop right there instant death.
Unethical? Who am I to say?

Stupid? Subjective...

Do I THINK it's stupid? Without a doubt...


Sounds a bit "Beavis and Butthead" to me.

I THINK you'd have more fun building a potato gun or a catapult that throws commodes...
Originally Posted by OldCenterChurch
Unethical? Who am I to say?

Stupid? Subjective...

Do I THINK it's stupid? Without a doubt...


Sounds a bit "Beavis and Butthead" to me.

I THINK you'd have more fun building a potato gun or a catapult that throws commodes...
^this

you can't fix stupid

proven fact
Never done it, but if I was going to, I would be on the ground and stick one in the eye. Nor would I waste time reloading.
Originally Posted by Tom264
I have killed many a dog and coyote with a .22lr stinger....more often than not it was a drop right there instant death.


Coyotes are tough animals. I have personally tracked a few without finding them after blasting them with a 223, 243, and 22-250AI. A 22 is a joke.
Originally Posted by battue
Never done it, but if I was going to, I would be on the ground and stick one in the eye.


To my way of thinking, that would be worse. There's bone behind that gelatinous eye!
Yeah... Not too sure of the motivation to shoot a game animal with a .22... Noise level?
Agreed. But there is a good chance it would put it on the ground for you to hit it again.

Don't ever plan on doing it, but just throwing some initial thoughts out.
Motivation....so I'm told....is that the Game Warden can't hear the shot from 2 miles away.
I think some people have never killed anything with a22Lr. When I was growing up game laws weren't really laws they were suggestions by the state (according to my family members)... grin

I know for a fact that you can kill every deer you ever wanted with 22 LR. High speed or standard velocity matters not. The only thing that matters is bullet placement.

We won't talk about what a 22 WMR will do... grin


Unless deer have gotten alot tougher in the last 20 or 25 years you will be fine. The bigger concern is not letting that bullet get into your neighbors house.
Dink
My uncle, who was once an outlaw and who has probably killed more deer than everyone on this thread combined, swears up and down that that the CCI Stinger will drop them about as quick as a 30-06 within range limitations.
It's not a matter of science, but rather one of wisdom! Proceed.
Some farmers around here have been known to get good at it. Of course those that do, unfortunately don't worry all that much if one runs off to die a miserable death someplace else.

Unless I was in survival mode, I can't see why any reasonable person would want to.
Originally Posted by Cossatotjoe_redux
My uncle, who was once an outlaw and who has probably killed more deer than everyone on this thread combined, swears up and down that that the CCI Stinger will drop them about as quick as a 30-06 within range limitations.


When I was young the Stinger was the bullet of choice. I wonder how the newer stuff works though.

Dink
A lot of the farmers who have deer problems have gleeful dreams about the deer they've just shot running off and dying miserably.
Until they find out they can get people to pay....
why don't you try one of these? i'm sure a 40 gr limestone pebble would have some knockdown power

[Linked Image]
I've killed quite a few with the .22 LR and .22 magnum. You definitely don't want any hyper velocity hollow points. I've seen them flatten and fail to penetrate the skull. Any of the 40 gr. LR solids will work if they hit right. From the side your aim point should be between the eye and ear hole. A LR solid will often go completely through and out the other side with that placement. It's best to avoid front on shots as the skull is very sloped and will sometimes glance off. The eye is definitely not the place to aim if they're facing directly at you as the bullet will completely miss the brain. It will work fine if the head is at a quartering to you angle though. The back of the head right between the ears also works well. That said, the .22 magnum works much better as it will completely penetrate the skull/head from any angle with no tendency to glance off even from the front from what I've seen.
Posted By: JOG Re: 22LR and the whitetail skull - 02/14/12
Originally Posted by ringworm
What is going to be the most effective 22LR bullet fired?


Sooo, you have complete confidence in the .22 LR being up to the task, but you don't know which bullet to have confidence in? sense me Makes to.
If I was doing it I'd bypass the .22 LR and go straight to the .22 WMR.
Do not take a head shot with a .22 LR or even the .22 mag if they are facing you.
Side head shot. Draw a line from the ear hole, thru the center of the eye. Put the bullet between the the ear and eye on that plane. You BETTER be able to hit a nickel 100% of the time at what ever distance you're shooting, cuz that's how much error you have. Back of the head works well.
Get a .22 mag if you're serious about doing this. Winchester Super-X 40 grn solids....
Originally Posted by santeerangerman
Do not take a head shot with a .22 LR or even the .22 mag if they are facing you.
Never had a problem head on with the .22 mag.. In between the eyes and out the back of the head every time. Those little flat nosed 40 gr. fmj's penetrate like the dickens.
You guys put way too much thought into this. Back in my younger days I learned real quick that a single 40 grain American Eagle .22 LR bullet tight behind the shoulder is about the cleanest kill possible on a deer. Some shots were in excess of 100 yards and it was always the same result. Instant death. Did it quite a bit on a couple ranches owned by buddies.

FYI I haven't done anything illegal for over 14 years now so don't even go there.
Originally Posted by Dog_Hunter
You guys put way too much thought into this. Back in my younger days I learned real quick that a single 40 grain American Eagle .22 LR bullet tight behind the shoulder is about the cleanest kill possible on a deer. Some shots were in excess of 100 yards and it was always the same result. Instant death. Did it quite a bit on a couple ranches owned by buddies.

FYI I haven't done anything illegal for over 14 years now so don't even go there.
I did several behind the shoulder with .22 mag.. None went more than 80 yds. but none dropped instantly either. I know somebody who used to lung shoot them with .22 LR but only with snow on for tracking. He told me he'd just plug one and walk away and come back later to track them out. He said they always laid down and died within 100-150 yds. that way but never said a thing about any instant drops. I've killed enough to know I don't buy instant drops every time behind the shoulder with anything, much less the .22 LR.
To each their own. On a text book broadside shot the "thwak!!!" was clearly heard and the deer fell down. I don't doubt your experiences but know mine were real.
According to my best bud, he hunts exclusively during California's rimfire season; however, he prefers a 22 mag. lol
Should probably clarify that by "instant death" I don't mean constant bang flops. Lots of them were but lots also did a 20-40 yard death run before they fell. What I meant by "instant death" is they were dead on their feet and I never had to go finish one off. No different than a more conventional rifle bullet through the chest.
Cali's got a rimfire season for deer? Are you being sarcastic?
Originally Posted by DINK


When I was young the Stinger was the bullet of choice. I wonder how the newer stuff works though.

Dink


Dink;
Having "dealt with" yard coyotes over the years with Yellow Jackets (1), Stingers(2?), Blasers (2) and Velocitors (4), I would definitely give the edge by a pretty fair margin to the Velocitors. The Velocitors dropped the largest Okanagan male coyote I've run across so far with one shot at roughly 25yds.

As a by the way, I've shot coyotes with a bunch of cartridges up to and including the .308 Norma Mag and .338Win Mag. From that experience have a good basic understanding of their tenacity and toughness. wink

The Velocitors worked on at least one vehicle hit mulie doe as well, though in my mind I think there might have been a second one as well. We can't hunt deer with rimfire rifles legally here in BC, but when putting an animal down the CO's haven't asked what I used when I saved them a trip - they only said "thank you very much sir."

Anyway, the mulie doe in the neighbor's yard took exactly one Velocitor at the base of her left ear to ease her out of her pain.

Speaking of them, the local Conservation Officers have told me that they'll use .22's for problem bears in urban settings quite a bit. At last count the BC CO's killed somewhere on one side or the other of 1000 nuisance black bears annually and many of the times they are only a "nuisance" when they can't see their way clear to leaving town.

I apologize that I neglected to ask what they use in their .22's though, sorry.

Anyway, for those who are curious about such things, do try the Velocitors if so inclined.

Hopefully that was some use to someone, somewhere.

Regards,
Dwayne
I've killed a few feral hogs with a .22LR loaded with CCI 40gr. SGB

.22WMR is better.
Winchester 40gr. JHP has been quite effective on feral hogs and exotics (axis and fallow doe).
Yeah, the 40 gr. Win JHP is a fantastic little bullet. The one I used on every lung shot deer I killed with the .22 WMR cartridge. I have a couple perfectly mushroomed specimens recovered from under the hide on the offiside of lung shot deer. They are picture perfect mushrooms suitable for a big game bullet advertisement.
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by santeerangerman
Do not take a head shot with a .22 LR or even the .22 mag if they are facing you.
Never had a problem head on with the .22 mag.. In between the eyes and out the back of the head every time. Those little flat nosed 40 gr. fmj's penetrate like the dickens.


Not questioning what you have experienced, but I've seen several shot between the eyes with the .22 mag and the bullet skipped off the front of the skull just under the skin without penetrating the skull. Never had a problem when they turned to the side though.

I've shot deperadation tags on the farm here in SC with a .22 mag for years, so I've got a pretty fair idea of how well they work. We use it to keep the noise down, and no recoil. I've always kept the shots under 50 yrds with the rimfire. Shooting farm tags evening after evening, after evening is a chore. Make no mistake about it.
Originally Posted by santeerangerman
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by santeerangerman
Do not take a head shot with a .22 LR or even the .22 mag if they are facing you.
Never had a problem head on with the .22 mag.. In between the eyes and out the back of the head every time. Those little flat nosed 40 gr. fmj's penetrate like the dickens.


Not questioning what you have experienced, but I've seen several shot between the eyes with the .22 mag and the bullet skipped off the front of the skull just under the skin without penetrating the skull. Never had a problem when they turned to the side though.

I've shot deperadation tags on the farm here in SC with a .22 mag for years, so I've got a pretty fair idea of how well they work. We use it to keep the noise down, and no recoil. I've always kept the shots under 50 yrds with the rimfire. Shooting farm tags evening after evening, after evening is a chore. Make no mistake about it.
My experience came the same way. Agricultural damage control near a housing development. Rimfires used to keep noise down.
If I was to use a .22 LR for deer I would use a Mini Mag solid or preferably a SGB load. For body/neck shots I would use Velocitors.

I have had too many Round nose 22 LR loads bounce off the skull to really trust them. It doesn't take much of an angle. It is especially true out of a revolver like a K-22 where a lot of velocity is lost. Actually the SGB bullet desrves some penetration testing....

If at all possible, I would use a .22 WMR rather than a 22LR. The 40 grain Magnum solid loads penetrate all out of proportion to the size/velocity. The HP's will take a rib and be laying under the hide on the far side.
Fosteology,

The 50grn Federal HP is a humb dinger on swine as well. We've used the 40g CCIs mostly, but those Federal 50s work like a champ. They chrono about 300-350fps slower than the 40s.
Originally Posted by Dog_Hunter
You guys put way too much thought into this. Back in my younger days I learned real quick that a single 40 grain American Eagle .22 LR bullet tight behind the shoulder is about the cleanest kill possible on a deer. Some shots were in excess of 100 yards and it was always the same result. Instant death. Did it quite a bit on a couple ranches owned by buddies.

FYI I haven't done anything illegal for over 14 years now so don't even go there.


I have heard guys say the exact same thing on behind the shoulder shots. I have also been told that sometimes after being shot behind the shoulder that the deer would jump/run a few steps and then go back to feeding until they fell over.

Dink
Originally Posted by BC30cal
Originally Posted by DINK


When I was young the Stinger was the bullet of choice. I wonder how the newer stuff works though.

Dink


Dink;
Having "dealt with" yard coyotes over the years with Yellow Jackets (1), Stingers(2?), Blasers (2) and Velocitors (4), I would definitely give the edge by a pretty fair margin to the Velocitors. The Velocitors dropped the largest Okanagan male coyote I've run across so far with one shot at roughly 25yds.

As a by the way, I've shot coyotes with a bunch of cartridges up to and including the .308 Norma Mag and .338Win Mag. From that experience have a good basic understanding of their tenacity and toughness. wink

The Velocitors worked on at least one vehicle hit mulie doe as well, though in my mind I think there might have been a second one as well. We can't hunt deer with rimfire rifles legally here in BC, but when putting an animal down the CO's haven't asked what I used when I saved them a trip - they only said "thank you very much sir."

Anyway, the mulie doe in the neighbor's yard took exactly one Velocitor at the base of her left ear to ease her out of her pain.

Speaking of them, the local Conservation Officers have told me that they'll use .22's for problem bears in urban settings quite a bit. At last count the BC CO's killed somewhere on one side or the other of 1000 nuisance black bears annually and many of the times they are only a "nuisance" when they can't see their way clear to leaving town.

I apologize that I neglected to ask what they use in their .22's though, sorry.

Anyway, for those who are curious about such things, do try the Velocitors if so inclined.

Hopefully that was some use to someone, somewhere.

Regards,
Dwayne


Thanks for the report. I don't get to shoot much stuff, other than small game, with a rimfire anymore and was wondering how the new stuff stacked up.

Dink
We hog hunt on federal forest service land, if deer season is not open you have to use whatever firearm that would be legal to hunt whatever game the season is open for ( such as squirrel) as there is no "hog" season. So we hunt with either 22lr or 22mag. We only take close range head shots, 50 yards or less. Doesn't seem to matter what you shoot them with, if you put it in the skull it will die right there. I use 22 mag cci solids. Weight range of the hogs are 50-250lb. I guy who shot benchrest once told me all you need for deer is a .222, I asked where he shot them, he replied anywhere in the eye.
Originally Posted by dogcatcher223
I'll take the bait...I wouldn't even hunt a coyote with a .22, let alone a deer. Even a 22 Hornet, 218 Bee etc would be a better choice.


My 220 Swift always worked.
maybe our deer just arnt as tough as the rest of the country...
I have close neighbors and while it's 100% legal from every standpoint, noise is the reason I am even looking into using the 22.
A can and paperwork is going to run me just over $1K and even then if using subsonics I probably wont get the best stabilization from my 1-12" bbl, which means buying a different rifle to can up.
regardless, I would only going to take head/ neck shots even with a centerfire because I cant afford to have a deer run out into the road and into a car or through a neighbors sliding glass door.
Amazing that using a LEGAL cartrige, on MY land in a 100% LEGAL manner brings the slander from some here.
Do you guys really think that a 22LR in the head at 40 yards is less lethal than than a 223 at 200 in the body?
Originally Posted by DINK
I think some people have never killed anything with a22Lr. When I was growing up game laws weren't really laws they were suggestions by the state (according to my family members)... grin

I know for a fact that you can kill every deer you ever wanted with 22 LR. High speed or standard velocity matters not. The only thing that matters is bullet placement.

We won't talk about what a 22 WMR will do... grin


Unless deer have gotten alot tougher in the last 20 or 25 years you will be fine. The bigger concern is not letting that bullet get into your neighbors house.
Dink


Thats as concise as it needs to be on the subject
I prefer the .50 BMG.....doesn't really matter where you hit em, it's always lethal
Posted By: DJTex Re: 22LR and the whitetail skull - 02/15/12
Aside from the noise issue, do y'all really think a head shot with a 22LR is that much safer in highly populated areas?

Even shooting at a sharp downward angle, it looks like ricochets on head shots could be problematic.

DJ
Originally Posted by ringworm
maybe our deer just arnt as tough as the rest of the country...
I have close neighbors and while it's 100% legal from every standpoint, noise is the reason I am even looking into using the 22.
A can and paperwork is going to run me just over $1K and even then if using subsonics I probably wont get the best stabilization from my 1-12" bbl, which means buying a different rifle to can up.
regardless, I would only going to take head/ neck shots even with a centerfire because I cant afford to have a deer run out into the road and into a car or through a neighbors sliding glass door.
Amazing that using a LEGAL cartrige, on MY land in a 100% LEGAL manner brings the slander from some here.
Do you guys really think that a 22LR in the head at 40 yards is less lethal than than a 223 at 200 in the body?


No. I think they're about the same which is the problem in a nutshell.
Standard velocity RN, CNS. Your problem will be placement, not terminal performance. You need to present the bullet to bone in as perpendicular aspect as possible to avoid deflection. You also have to recognize that deer move their heads often and abruptly. There is little difference in the killing of deer or hogs in context of terminal ballistics and anatomy, but the trick for deer is getting them to hold still for it.

Thinking this is a format you'd do well to reconsider.
Originally Posted by DJTex
Aside from the noise issue, do y'all really think a head shot with a 22LR is that much safer in highly populated areas?

Even shooting at a sharp downward angle, it looks like ricochets on head shots could be problematic.

DJ



Common sense answer and in addition with close neighbors who knows where the bullet will go if perchance it does pass through. Then there is the problem with the Deer dying in one of those close yards.

"Oh excuse me for interrupting your picnic. I'll have this out of the way in a minute."
When i was a young kid dad use to send me out at night to shoot a deer for a family at the end of the road that had about 10 children.

The daddy was a wood cutter and the mother cut and fixed other peoples hair in the community, they did the best they could, but had trouble making ends meet, 6 or 7 deer through the winter months sure didnt hurt, I must have shot 5 pickup bed loads of deer with the 22 LR and an old Weaver scope over the years, lead round nose bullet in the head/ear/eye and it was a done deal, never lost one.


Gunner
Here's a copy of some Milk Jug Tests I posted over at rimfirecentral about six years ago. Not bone/meat but may help you decide on what round to use. I quit testing solid points as they did not expand no matter the velocity and the penetration was eating up my jug supply. Based on this I would vote for the Velocitor or a solid (anything but Remington which have had velocity consistency issues for twenty five years that I am aware of).

Digital Dan also has/had(?) some pictures of pig skulls that were shot with 22's down on the rimfire forum.

Jerry

Milk Jug Expansion Tests
22 Rimfire Milk Jug Tests

Shot at 50 Yards unless noted otherwise, Original Bullet Weight is in Parenthesis. All Rounds are Long Rifle Except CCI-Short HP and Aguila Super Colibri. Barrel length was 22 inches.

A-HV HP (Aguila High Velocity HP); Completely Penetrated 3 Jugs. Recovered weight 37.6 grains (38). Max. Expansion 0.295".

A-SC (Aguila Super Colibri); Shot at 20 Yards. Penetrated into 1st Jug, did Not Dimple Back Wall of Jug. Recovered weight 20 grains (20). No Visible Expansion.

A-SS HP (Aguila Sub-Sonic Hollow Point); Recovered in 2nd Jug. Recovered weight 37.4 grains (38). Max. Expansion 0.325".

CCI-QS (CCI Quik Shok) Did not Penetrate Back Wall of 1st Jug, Blew Jug Apart. Only Found 1 Small Fragment in Jug. Recovered weight 3.5 grains. This was the older packaged Quik Shok (pre 2006).

CCI-Short HP (CCI Short Hollow Point); Shot at 35 Yards. Found in 2nd Jug. Recovered weight 27.0 grains (27). Max. Expansion 0.400".

CCI-Short HP (50) (CCI Short Hollow Point); Shot at 50 Yards. Found in 3rd Jug. Recovered weight 26.5 grains (27). Max. Expansion 0.420".

CCI-SS HP (CCI Sub Sonic Hollow Point); Penetrated 2 Milk Jugs, Stopped on Face of 3rd Jug, Blew Apart 1st Jug. Recovered weight 39.0 grains (40). Max. Expansion 0.380".

REM-SS HP (Remington Sub Sonic Hollow Point); Penetrated 2 Milk Jugs. Recovered weight 39.3 grains (?). Max. Expansion 0.335".

RWS-SS HP (RWS Sub-Sonic Hollow Point); Penetrated into 3rd Jug. Recovered weight 40.3 grains (40). Max. Expansion 0.330".

WMT (Wolf Match Target); Penetrated into 5th Jug. Recovered weight 40 grains (40). No Visible Expansion.
[Linked Image]


2nd Set of 22 Rimfire Milk Jug Tests
I dropped the expansion measurement and weight as I felt the picture gives a better idea of how they opened up.

All were shot at 50 Yards. 2 Rounds were tested of each type and both are in the photograph. All Rounds are Long Rifle Hollow Points. Barrel Length was 22 inches.

AGUILA-SUPER MAX ; Both bullets penetrated into 2nd Jug. 2nd Bullet did not lose it�s frontal mushroom piece.

CCI- MINI MAG HP; 1ST Bullet penetrated the 2nd Jug and left a dimple (leaking water) in 3rd Jug, bullet was found at interface of jugs 2 and 3. 2nd Bullet penetrated into 3rd Jug and had the more extensive mushroom.

CCI-QUIK SHOK; Small fragment found in 1st Jug, larger fragment found in 2nd Jug (1st round is on the right side). 2nd shot had the same results, except the fragment in 1st jug was larger (2nd round is on the left). This is the new packaged Quik Shok (2006), which as OIS noted earlier blows apart less violently than the older stuff.

CCI-stinger; 1st Bullet penetrated 2nd jug and was found at interface with 3rd jug. 2nd Bullet penetrated into the 3rd jug, 2nd Bullet has the larger mushroom.

CCI-velocitor; Both Bullets penetrated into the 3rd jug.
[Linked Image][u][/u]

Best advice so far, BC30cal !

I too lean to the Velocitor, mostly for the slight edge over the Mini-Mags for penetration.

About half the 'yotes will run on me. Usually about the distance you would expect for Rimfire stuff,, + or -, 70 yards or so. I usually go for the double lung shot on 'yotes because I know they will be dead 'shortly'.

I expect similar results on problem deer, up to about the 80# maximum live weight. Velocitor (and Mini-Mags) there also, with Velocitors again 1st choice. Over the 80# weight 'shortly' often gets different to predict.

The protocol on head and neck shots here is, as quickly as possible approach and another to the heart lung/area AND brain pan. Seen a few of those head and neck shots that were 'dead' get up and take off again.

Don't know the OP's situation, safety seems to be his paramount problem.

Out of this thread.
Just caught your post on the way out of this thread !

Good work you did there! Gonna save it here.

grin
Originally Posted by ringworm

Do you guys really think that a 22LR in the head at 40 yards is less lethal than than a 223 at 200 in the body?


Yup
Don't know about 22lr but I've seen 2 deer shot by a 22WMR and know specifically of another. First 2 were shot by mistake. Friend of mine thought they were squirrels. First one was a spike about 110 lbs or so. He took a Winchester 40gr Hollow Point in the right eye and we found it mushroomed the size of a dime against the back of the skull. Second was a knothead that took the same round between the eyes. You could hold him by the ears and just wallow the skull around. That one went out the back. The third was a mature doe shot under the chin and into the neck. Was told she ran about 50 yds squirtin blood and piled up in a briar patch.
Originally Posted by shootem
Don't know about 22lr but I've seen 2 deer shot by a 22WMR and know specifically of another. First 2 were shot by mistake. Friend of mine thought they were squirrels.
Damn, you must have some big ass squirrels in your area !
Originally Posted by shootem
First 2 were shot by mistake. Friend of mine thought they were squirrels.


I just don't have the words.
CCI Solids...hands down.

Think of LETHAL as a vacinnation, Even a syringe with a needle can put a deer on the ground,... permanently or not.

Still got the problem of too much, or not enough,........ LETHAL.

Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by shootem
Don't know about 22lr but I've seen 2 deer shot by a 22WMR and know specifically of another. First 2 were shot by mistake. Friend of mine thought they were squirrels.
Damn, you must have some big ass squirrels in your area !


Well,......that's what he said anyway. But that was long ago and far away.
Has anybody tried the [b][color:#3333FF] Aguila 60gr. 22LR rounds.?[/color][/b]

I bet at 50 yards, they could break into the skull and tumble around nicely...



Originally Posted by stray round
Originally Posted by shootem
First 2 were shot by mistake. Friend of mine thought they were squirrels.


I just don't have the words.
Be SURE of your target comes to mind.....
I've put a bunch of dogs down with head shots with .22rf solids without a problem and the .22 was always used by everyone at hog killing time.

Even so I think a .22 Hornet for the OP's purpose would provide more options and room for error.
"Has anybody tried the Aguila 60gr. 22LR rounds.?

I bet at 50 yards, they could break into the skull and tumble around nicely..."

Problem with Aguila's SSS 60 grain is it is not very accurate in standard twist rifles (1:16 twist), and I'm talking as close as 25 yards the bullets tend to keyhole and the groups open up.

Jerry
Posted By: 65BR Re: 22LR and the whitetail skull - 02/15/12
22LR? If I were forced- Solids and go for side to head shot, or WW power point to lungs.

22 Mag - much preferred w/FMJs to head

221,222, 223 w/reduced loads if noise is a factor, 52-55 w/PRECISE placement.

Personally, a 6BR can be downloaded w/but a FEW grains of powder and get say a 70gr at 2,000 - would do well w/head shots I believe, and reduced loads in a 243 should do the same.

Personally, I think a 223 w/the new tech bullets have a good enough track record to use w/confidence, but it sounds like you want minimal noise.

A 222 or 221 is very mild in report.

I would ONLY squeeze if using utmost care in shot placement and willingness to pass on anything but a perfect presentation and hold.

I took 4 rabbits w/head shots this year w/a LR and Mag at 50-75 yds...have to be VERY selective 'Timing' the shot so the animal does not snatch their head when you squeeze....as I wanted ONLY head shots for 0 meat damage.
The common idea i hear expressed is that of ability to restrain oneself until the ideal moment presents itself.
Not being able to ( or interested in) convincing anyone here of my personal abilities I can however assure you that my season is long, my bag limits generous and my position well chosen for safety.
I can wait till the shot presents itself and if it doesnt I can wait till another time.
My hide is 42 paces from the creek (my limit line). The hide itself is inside an old stable. The rest is the rear window of the hay loft. The downward angle to the creek is about 20 degrees and the area behind the creek is surrounded by 60 year old sweetgums.
If I decide to take a deer with the 22LR i will be within the laws of my state in doing so.
If I decide to take a deer with the 22LR i will do it knowing that safety is paramount, not venison.
The actual question of certain select ammo's ability to penetrate the skull of a whitetail has been answered.

http://www.survivalmonkey.com/forum/firearms/30585-22-cal-penetration-test-fresh-deer-skull.html
Just curious. Any laws in your State regarding the minimum acreage required for discharge of a firearm along with any restrictions with regards to how far away one must be from an occupied building.
Posted By: davet Re: 22LR and the whitetail skull - 02/16/12
I'd still go with a .22mag if it were me (actually a 25-20 or downloaded .357 if it were me). .22mag is leagal for deer in Maine and SC, if I remember correctly.

If you are determined to go this route, look at an actual deer skull, the temple is obviously the softest spot.
Originally Posted by Tom264
Originally Posted by stray round
Originally Posted by shootem
First 2 were shot by mistake. Friend of mine thought they were squirrels.


I just don't have the words.
Be SURE of your target comes to mind.....


Just sOme Kindof hiddEn humor. smile
Winchester power points. Very accurate in my 10-22. Set it up so you have a shot at the top of the head. A small bait pile that forces them to come in straight on into you. When they put their head down put it dead center left to right and equidistant between the eyes and ears. It will be lights out.
Very important inquiry. I know michigan law states 450 ft from any dwelling and cannot use a firearm from ANY permanent structure. That last part will get ya if your not careful. Can't shoot from the back deck and even some hunting blinds ( the ridicoulus ones) are considered permanent.
Not saying a 22 is ideal for deer, but I have put a bunch of beef and pork on the ground for butchering with a 22LR solid
Not ideal nor my idea of hunting but it can be done effectively within given constraints if a situation deems it necessary. In other words if all you have is a 22LR and you are extremely hard up for meat.
SC Law states...
Quote
It is unlawful to hunt deer within 300 yards of a residence without
permission of the owner and occupant, except that a landowner may hunt
on his own land


I have already been up the chain with DNR.
I'm not doing anything illegal. try again.
As to the baiting them in aspect, it is illegal to hunt over bait in my game zone. I currently feed the deer and when spring comes i plant food plots.
Originally Posted by davet
I'd still go with a .22mag if it were me (actually a 25-20 or downloaded .357 if it were me). .22mag is leagal for deer in Maine and SC, if I remember correctly.

If you are determined to go this route, look at an actual deer skull, the temple is obviously the softest spot.




I do not know about private land, but the minimun caliber for deer in S.C. is still .243/6mm on public land. DO NOT try using a rimfire for deer on public land. I have known several of the game wardens down there. They WILL find you, and forgiveness, especially for Yankees or Damn Yankees, is not in their lexicon.
Public land?

In SC?

I would walk onto public land in SC OUT OF SEASON...
Not even if I was dressed like this...

[Linked Image]


nope.
no way.
Originally Posted by ringworm
FINALLY got confirmation from the Director of DNR in SC...

Quote
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 8:28 AM
To: Charles Ruth
Subject: deer regulations on private lands


Mr. Ruth,
Would you please direct me to the specific code in SC law or DNR regulations pertaining to the minimum caliber LEGALLY allowed for harvesting deer on private lands?
I am unable to find anything that prohibits the use of rimfire weapons on private lands.
I am not interested in what the DNR consideres ethical. I know hunters who could not make a clean kill with a 300 winchester magnum and I know hunters who could use a 22LR and drop every deer they need.
What I am looking for is very specific language that either allows or prohibits the use of rimfires, not an ethics debate.
Thanks you in advance.

REPLY
Quote
There is no such law or regulation for private land.


That said, historically there was a regulation that applied to WMA lands statewide and to private land in Game Zones 1 and 2 that prohibited using FMJ bullets or .22 rimfire or smaller for big game. However, the general assembly removed this restriction on private land a couple of years ago.


The wording related to WMA�s can be found on page 31 of the Rules and Regs brochure and states:
3.3 On WMA lands, big game hunters are not allowed to use military or hard-jacketed bullets or .22 or smaller rimfire.


Again, this used to apply to private land but no longer does.


Let me know if you have any other questions.
Charles Ruth
Certified Wildlife Biologist
Deer & Wild Turkey Program Coordinator
SC Dept. of Natural Resources
P. O. Box 167
Columbia, SC 29202-0167

What is going to be the most effective 22LR bullet fired?

It is 100% legal for me to use a 22LR. I am hunting on my land. my shooting position is at a 20 degree downward angle at 0-50 yards MAX.
Im sure some of you will not be able to contain yourselves and must comment about how its unethical to shoot a deer with a 22LR. margin of error ect ect ect.
I am talking about 40 yard MAX shots. I have a sandbagged fixed position to shoot from. Compared to a person taking a 200 yard shot with any centerfire the same margin of error could result in a blown off jaw or leg just as easy.


I've killed two deer (blacktail does) with a .22 RF. Both head shots at relatively close range. Also, a deer-sized goat. All were mercy kills. Very effective.

Uh... let's see... I don't remember specifics, but I know they weren't HP's. If I were to do it again ideally I'd use CCI MiniMag solids.
I'd use Eley TenX standard solids, or something like it that would shoot bug hole groups.....shoot them in the ear hole or temple. you want penetration, and you have to hit the soft spots.

a .22 mag solid would be a lot more certain to get through, I would think.
About 30 years ago my grandfather had some depredations tags for deer on his Middle Tennessee farm. He told me to shoot every one I could. I was a teenager and did as I was told. I managed to shoot several with my Marlin 995 .22. All were head shots at less than 50 yds. Not one took a step after being hit. I used mostly the cheap old Federal Lightning blue box ammo. I always waited until I got a shot at the side of the head and never shot one straight on. It is really not that complicated or hard.
im gonna get some beef ribs and test penetration with various rounds at 50 yards.
starting with the thunderbolts.
Unless Remington has improved the Thunderbolts, they used to be the most inconsistent 22 LR's I have ever used. One would pop, the next one would pow, and every now and then, one would poof. I mentioned the YellowJackets earlier, and come to think of it, they make a Viper which is the same SWC profile in a solid. You may try that one as well.
I think you would be even quieter if you back up a bit from the window. Keep the muzzle inside your 'stable blind.' Wear hearing protection.

You might want to get your wife to help you find out if a small centerfire downloaded from the center of the structure is louder than a 22 from the window. I don't know the answer, but it seems worth finding out.
Originally Posted by CrimsonTide
Unless Remington has improved the Thunderbolts, they used to be the most inconsistent 22 LR's I have ever used. One would pop, the next one would pow, and every now and then, one would poof.
That's when they go off at all. Lotsa duds with thunderturds. Crappiest .22 ammo on the market bar none. For that matter, all Remington rimfire ammo has sucked straight up ass for decades now.
A couple of posts back, someone mentioned the old Federal Lightning ammo. Now that was some good stuff. Very consistent and accurate out of my old High Standard Double Nine.
I asked a good friend years ago what was his favorite, best deer rifle.. He was a Sioux Indian. He was not sure what I meant, his favorite one, the one he took the most deer with. 22LR was his answer for the most deer. Charlie Two Feathers, learned a lot from him. Told me he was 18 before he found out that beef was something to eat and not sell. I personally would not use one, but given good hunting skills and a careful shot I have no doubt it would be effective. Charlie was a subsistance hunter, maybe not paying paticular attention to what was in season. I did learn however how to hunt deer, and how to find and predict their movements.
did a little penetration test with remington 40gr thunderbolts today at 45 yards.
from the results i'd say penetration into a whitetail skull is most highly likely.
unless they have a steel plate in thier head.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread...LR_penetration_test_in_pictu#Post6258256
I thought this was interesting on the CCI Velocitor, a ballistic gel test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7plzIVmLlU
Wow, I think I'm going to buy a brick of Velocitors tomorrow.

As for the earlier mention of Aguila 60 grainers I tried them in both of my .22s, a Marlin 39M and a Remington 541-T, and neither one would shoot them accurately in spite of being accurate, high quality rifles.
shooting a deer with a 22 is just plain wrong.
22LR 40 gr @ 1,150 FPS = 116 ft lbs
average whitetail 100 Lbs
thats 1.16 Ft Lbs of energy per pound of body weight

458 Lott 450 gr @ 2,450 FPS = 6000 ft lbs
Average male african Elephant 7,700 lb
thats .779 Ft Lbs of energy per pound of body weight

So do you think shooting an elephant with a 458 Lott is wrong as well?
Originally Posted by rem141r
shooting a deer with a 22 is just plain wrong.



Unless there's hungry neighbor's with ten kids and yo daddy sez, "BOY, GET YOUR 22 AND THE 1-TON GO DOWN TO THE LOW FIELD AND GET SOME DEER MEAT FOR RICHARD!!!"

Gunner
Might I suggest a ThunderBeast Arms 22L-1 for a suppressor? It is titanium and under $500 so with the stamp you would be in it under $700. It is extremely quiet on my 10/22 and 22/45 pistol. Make sure to use subsonic ammo
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