Given the choice woud you rather have the Vixen or the Kimber Montana. I have been offered a Vixen in 95% condition for less than $1000 and am thinking of going that route and throwing it in a Edge sometime in the future.

Apples to oranges, but stainless, kevlar, and 1-9" twist gets my vote.

As a pure hunting rifle I would also rather have stainless and Kevlar.

Recently however I spent my saved rifle money on a Sako Forrester Deluxe rather than a Kimber.My reasoning was,the 1969 Sako was in nearly new condition,nice wood and a good price.Even though it takes me a while to save $1000 to spend on a rifle,I knew I could more easily find another Kimber later, than a Forrester in that condition.

What twist barrel do the vixens have

14 on most of newer ones in 222 anyway.

the Sako because the action is the correct length for the action. The Montana uses a 308 length action for the tiny 223 cartridge: not a big deal to most, but a huge deal to me.

In the situation you described I'd buy the Sako. Montanas are still in production.

My vote goes to the Sako, but I'm a bonafide Sako slut!!!One of the neatest little actions ever built!Lotsa soul! It kinda depends on what you wanna hunt with it. You can always drop it into a mcmillan stock if the the synthetic is a factor. BUT it is twisted slow and being petite it will have mag constraints if you wanted to run, long for caliber bullets. Definitely a factor if you wanted to hunt med size game. My little triple duece sporter calling gun dotes on 40 grain v-maxes, I am sooo glad I was holdin it last month when I had the biggest bobcat I or the taxidermist had ever seen come in to the call!!!! One entrance and stayed in!!!!!

My thoughts as well and, IMHO, many of the older Sako's are better fit and finished.
YMMV,

BD

Dr.Lou - purchased a SAKO L461 Vixen with the heavy barrel in the mid 70's when the .223Rem chambering was not common. 1:14 twist but shoots 55 gr loads just fine. Paid $250 for it new. When I took it to the range the local National Guard unit was there qualifying with the M16. Their NCO's could not believe a "civilian" was shooting a bolt gun in that caliber. Best part - made a deal with my young son. IF he policed the GI brass that came my way he'd make a penny each ($.01). He was human vacuum cleaner filling up his bucket! Regards, Homesteader.

The Sako has no advantage anywhere and disadvantages everywhere. It's the same old constant,that boolits matter more than headstamps and the Sako's twist rate and mag confines,knock it out of any serious contention Today.

Only the first (5) boolits on the left are Sako 223 doable. The first (4) in a Sako Deuce. The Montucky will happily shoot them all,except one as an absolute certainty(the furthest to the right),though the 4th from the right is 50/50.



CM is at a distinct disadvantage over S/S. Walnut is at a distinct disadvantage over a good synthetic(which the Montucky is). The Sako receiver's mounting system and it's modest spacing,preclude much latitude in glass selection/position. The Sako's very slight mag confines preclude upper echelon BC's,even with a rebarrel being factored in the equation,to speed up it's pedestrian twist rate. The Kimber will happily cough up a 2.500" COAL.

The Sako isn't even a consideration,for a hard use Utility Rifle,in direct comparison.

Stick, have you found some Montanas to not twist the 75Amax quick enough?

Don't listen to the man behind the curtain...

Sakos have been around for decades, lasted the trial of a utility rifle and still perform beyond the standards set today. Sako actions are designed around the size of the cartridge and not made to fit a pre-existing larger action. The simple truth is they are reliable, accurate and better made. The Kimber can be a good gun, but the Sako has proven over the years to be a great gun...

my sako vixens shoot the 40 to 55 grainers sooo good. i have no need for a heavier bullet. i just got a heavy barrel 1967 .243 sako. shot 4 different loads ; two different bullets. the big groups were in the mid to low .2s. my brothers 40x 6ppc does not do any better.

+1 to what shrapnel said. The older Sako's are among the finest factory produced rifles ever made.

Here's an old Sako in action...

NOTHING beats a Pre-Garcia Vixen. Have owned both rifles in question.

Stick, you have obviously changed your mind since this post...

But I think that you are currently just fishing. Sorry to scare the fish away.

http://www.asrealasitgets.net/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/73131/

That's debateable. I put my order in for a 223 Montana in November and still no rifle.

oops

Yep..what they said...Choose the Sako because, well...its a Sako.

Don't choose the kimber because ,well, its a Kimber and they dont always work outside SE Alaska...( sorry Stick......)

Just another opinion, and you know what they are worth...

Twist rate and long heavy bullets mean everything to some, nothing to others.

I've got a slow-twist but ACCURATE .223 M700 that I bought for a future retube. I have had a hoot with plain ol' 55's. It's gonna get worked hard here in the next couple months as I start shooting again.

The first sign of The Apocalypse...I agree with JeffO!!

Stuff keeps dying in front of my 1 in 12 twisted CF .22s and 50-55 gr bullets...havent felt the need to step up in weight and tighten up the twist for anything .....yet.


If I do I have a .243 that shoots 80 grainers lights out!

No matter who makes the spout and/or the rifle,1-9" is no sure thing in a 223 with 75A-max. Some do,some don't...though punching 223AI and adding more speed(RPM) to the fray do bolster odds.

8" is THE ticket.



'nel,

Blackpowder had a lonnggggg and "illustrious" career(to the tune of Centuries),prior to the advent and shift to smokeless propellants. Same goes the advent of brass cartridge cases,as compared to frontstuffers. Smoothbores to rifling. Stone knives,to steel and the list do go on for literally ever. 'Course Flat Landers kicked and screamed with every transition,while them in the know rocked on. Poignant,ain't it?!!?

The FACTS are: CM is at a huge disadvantage to S/S. Walnut is a huge disadvantage to great Synthetic. 1-14" is a huge disadvantage to 9". Trite mag confines and Ping Pong ball BC's are a huge disadvantage to increased COAL latitude,increased BC's and throating in accordance to same.

Your Sako pics with rear adjustable rings and nary a scratch,are oblivious Testimony to them constants.


Bless your heart.



'flag,

I've never shot any 40-55gr .224" projectiles,please feel free to expound.

Thanks!



'Raider,

The only thing you shoot is your mouth,though points is always awarded for pics of barbed wire,haybales and pointy boots.

You go girl!



'NZ,

Enjoy that you plagiarize me,when Posting to me...that is [bleep] hilarious! Oddly enough the Feb '09 timeline is purty early in the Montucky 223's arrival to the masses and interestingly enough,I didn't have one at the time.

I reckon you was slow parking the blackpowder,smoothbores and pin fires? Laffin'!




'thumper,

That thing really looks like it's been to the Fair.

Wow.




'rey,

Pard slicked one up last R&R. Keep your nose in the wind.




'05,

You was saying?!!?



Jeff-O,

You've never seen or shot any of those boolits,but I'd pay good [bleep] money,to watch you TRY and open the boxes.

At least you'll always have your [bleep] Imagination.




'we,


I enjoy your "stance" ala Jeff-O,from having been on but one side of the equation.



This schit is PRICELESS...if only because you gals is doing the BEST you can do!

Two thumbs up!

I have several AIs in 223 and 222. I just love those little actions and that they are designed for the cartridge. I can't stand rifles that use a SA or LA and modify it to feed tiny cartridges - and they look nice, too.

Stick...errrr..I mean Boxer..

I just loaded up a buttload of H335..

.std .223 and AI...

That stuff sucks...

Tight lines! Gawd...I do get a kick outta you...

Bless your heart

THIS ^^^^^^^^

It is to me as well.

Then, there is craftsmanship and warmth and beauty. I want them in my wife AND in my rifles. Some don't care on one point or the other, I do.

Have sold some darned accurate CF 22's in the past, the Sako Riihimaki and L-461 (Very similar to the Vixen) are NOT on the chopping block.

Boxer, I have shot the 75 Amax's. My 1:9 M700P didn't like them one bit. My current .223 is whatever Rem twists the SPSS's. I bought it for the stainless action; we agree about that.

It bugholes Horn 55's and I can have lots of fun with that.

In the fullness of time it'll get a 1:8 and that'll be fun too I suspect. Maybe MORE fun.

You ever buy a lathe?

I'm sorry but I don't get what your point is. Only Crossfire could understand this post...

He's saying fast-twisted rifles with mag/throat geometry to allow long bullets to get out to the lands, in stainless/good synthetic, represent the current state of the art in rifles.

He's not wrong. But he way overplays it <g>.

This rifle is a l461, does that mean anything?

L-461 is the short action, l61r is the long action.

Warmth and beauty is light done right,in a hard use parcel that'll hang tidy Agg's,happily fend the worst of weather,has the twist rate,mag latitude and throat geometry to really ring the bell...all while never missing a lick. There was a time not too long ago,that a guy had to build to approximate those things...yet today it's available over the counter and is called a Montucky. If you had even the slightest of inkling to boolits,you'd swoon the ability to incorporate the best of that which is available,from within that same package. It's called "win/win". Interestingly enough,noone upon this Thread uses a Sako enough to even put a scratch in it and "all" that "time" in the "Outdoors" has precluded the ranks from having even the faintest of [bleep] clues about boolits. The humor inherent would be tough to top,but let's hope someone tries!

I enjoy the bandwidth that the guys who know the least about schit,feel compelled to use,so as to reiterate their plight of sheer cluelessness.

People crack me up!



Jeff-O,

It is well beyond humorous,that you feel compelled to Post about ANYTHING regarding rifles,boolits or glass. Keep shooting your Imagination and playing Pretend.

Wow.



'nel,

Noone ever accused you of having a clue,let alone being able to obtain one. I enjoy that stupidity isn't an Act for you.

Let's trade rifles for a week,if only to connect a few dots for you.

Laffin'!



Travis,

It doesn't mean S/S,Synthetic,fast twist,nor increased mag box COAL.

Hint.




'85,

The L61R hasn't the deadend street,trite mag confines of the A1 and it's ilk. For that reason,one can go numerous ways aboard a donor of it's configuration.



That being said and coming full circle,opting a Montucky .532" S/A with it's 3"+ COAL capable box,throated in accordance,light weight,S/S and Synthetic handle...once again offers all the goody over the counter.

Just sayin',if only because I got 'em all.


'flag

The L579 has a box greater than 2.8" which allows nice things. Have had numerous,namely in 22-250,243Win and 308. Their 308's are throated far more favorably than most.

Grass is always green at my house.

Film at 11:00.

l579 is a medium action. i like them all.

Boxer- do not know where you are . i am envious of your grass. it is green. here it is mostly brown. nice rifle and binos. don't know what to say about those skulls.

I don't know which skulls you may be referring to, but I know one of his is completely empty...

Apples to oranges?
yeah, Horse apples maybe.

FK!
Its not even a question.
SAKO!
Duh.

Better BBL's
Better trigger
smaller action.
all around superior rifle, hands down.

Whats the next thread?
Christina Hicks or Holly Hunter?
SHIIIIT!

My vote would be the Vixen. My experience has been that the Vixens are slick little actions and extremely accurate.


ddj

I own neither in 223, My Sako Finnbear 30 06 will outshoot either of my Montanas (308 & 7mm 08) any day of the week, Maybe I just got lucky with the old Sako and unlucky with the 2 Kimbers. The Kimbers both shoot fair (< 1in) and are a pleasure to carry. Buy 'em both! You only go round once, you might as well go happy!!!!

Mine wont' run 'em with 335 or R-15.

mine does, but it's punched AI

and i would NOT trade it for any of the Sakos pictured.

The Montana is nice, and I want one, but Sako Vixens are one of those sweet litle rifles that make my knees weak, my heart skip a beat, and my mouth fall open. They're just beautiful! Maybe you should buy both.

'nel,

I very much enjoy that you don't have to play Dumb,yet despite your best efforts...you can't play Smart. Rather interesting dichotomy,ripe for inherent humor of the oblivious nature. Bless your heart. Was hoping for a week long trade,so I could knock some of the [bleep] new off your Mall Ninja Safe Queens for you. Could put more use on one in an afternoon,than you could in a Life. Too funny!

Drug the shutter too long from an ice mound and couldn't catch the rain for you,beings you've never seen or shot in it before. Doing my best not to laugh at you and your crossed-eyes too.



Tried to get one flying over the wares for you,but it wasn't to be. The wind was gusting 70-ish,replete with a Monsoon and I was trying to do the 1D3 some favors.



Bumped exposure,but the light wasn't all that great.



Did manage a 20-pounder With Cheese,for your Whine.



You really is a "go getter".

Wow.



'74,

Hop in there and getcha' some. Say something about your "experience".

Laffin'!




'worm,

Points awarded for humor,with a Dude Licker being an "option" for you and your "hard use" "needs".

Lemme borrow that "superior" sumbitch for a week and you can muse POA/POI intersection,zero retention and rust.

In no [bleep] particular order.



'herdj,

Lemme letcha' in on a little "secret",in that it's a rather inordinate rifle that won't shoot exceptionally well. Brass,boolits,powder and glass have come a lonnnggggggggg ways baby.

Just sayin'.




'55,

I rather like the Montucky "odds" down range.(grin)


I'm glad the Window Lickers have been watching Martha Stewart all day and practicing their Pretend and Imagination...if only because that sorta humor can't be topped! If someone can top a 30yr+ old rifle on it's first barrel and less a scratch,please do tell! Then frost it with some 'thoughts" on boolits,twist,throating and mag confines.

Holy [bleep] dog schit,don't ANY of you idiots shoot?!!?

wouldnt let you borrow an anvil. you'd lose it or break it, eat it perhaps.
I'd guess a only a very small percentage of rifle owners and shooters throw thier chit in the snow and roll it around with dead fish.
Maybe theres a niche' market you could explore.
But for the 99.9% of rifle users the sako (sans jelly bean [bleep] paint job) will be a superior rifle.
At least untill they fall off the planet and wind up in [bleep] hunting salmon with a 22 AI.

I heard they crank this chit up when Stick rolls into mancamp!

'worm,

Didn't mean to horn you up and have you leaping outta the closet,but your avatar really is bad ass! Laffin'! Pardon my beauty.

Curiously enough,a rifle slung on the shoulder,carried in the mitts or laying on the snow...all incurs a like amount of precipitation in a deluge(doubly so when it's blowing 70mph). There's simply no way around it and I very much enjoy that all your "hardcore pursuits",preclude you from that obvious. A 42" OAL rifle is a fair to middlin' barometer,from which to subtend Scaled Splendor,if a gent knows what he's looking at. No need for you to reiterate your cluelessness,as it's never been anything short of glaringly obvious. Nice touch to miss the Species,your haste to take stupidity to places it's never been before,is nothing shy of impressive. Bless your heart.

Feel free to wax eloquent upon your Flatlanding Fair Weather Forays and how those "findings" allow you to feel that a Dude Licker Sako has no peer for Critterly Pursuits and is "superior". I know,I know,it'll be another long and [bleep] awkward silence,as you practice Pretend and polish your Imagination,but do your best with what you've got...because it'll be funnier than [bleep]. Points awarded for the weather conditions and Critters you and the Dude Licker "contend" with. I'm cryin',I'm laughing so hard!!

Now in fairness,I'd say that it'd squarely take someone as stupid as you,to even begin to hint that a CM/Walnut Dude Licker can hang with SS/Synthetic of repute. Let's hope you are dumb enough now,to say a little sumptin' about boolits,twist,throating(don't let the notion horn you up all over again!) and mag latitude.

Never have heard of a 22AI,do tell. You are on an epic roll and my fingers are crossed that you'll continue with your vast "knowledge","experience" and continue with your version of "enlightenment".

Wow!







SamO,

Your fixation is wellfounded. Bless your heart.

As per always,take notes and apply same,if only because it'll much improve your Game.

Pun be intended.

BoxerStick,

Gotta agree that a SS/plastic is superior when weather is awful. thus, My Motorcycle scabbard rifle is Coated SS with plastic and my 340 is also coated SS with waterproofed Laminate handle.

That said there are NOT rodents out and about to shoot at in bad weather, and even if there were, I don't like shooting them bad enough to get after them in that kind of mess. Thus, no negatives for a nice looking sweet handling rifle for such. Your comment that beauty or sweetnes or nice or whatever comes from a longer action and plastic with long throuats and fast twist is a valid OPINION, but that is all it is, and OPINION. You are entitled to it, and can live your life accordingly. Looks like you do. Others with different experince or preference also have valid opinions, and that is all they are is opinions and preferences. Equal in all respects, and we all get to buy and hunt with what works ofr us in our locale and style, with our preferences in hand. GOD BLESS THE USA! Love the freedom we have, as well as the econimis to buy and own such a wide aray of rifles and glass etc. Many countries I have been to or hunted in, the average guy on the street could not buy one of the guns you or I own if he saved every dime he made for his whole life.

We are a bleesed Nation and people, hunt with what you like, and Bless your heart.

I stated simplistic mechanical FACTS,none of which is subjective.

As an aside,I was awaiting the Fair Weather Flatlanding Chronicles,which would denote the Sako Dude Licker being "superior".

Concessions is NEVER advantages...take that to the Bank.

Hint.

As for me there is nobodies opinion on hunting rifles I respect more that Sticks solely due to his astoundingly broad experience killing crap.

As an amateur furniture maker I love figured wood of all types. Love working with it, feeling it and smelling it but that's for my furniture not my rifles.

Can't wait to build my first 223AI throated to kiss the 75 Amax at a COAL which works within my mag constraints.

He's an expert on this too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_tossing

I've no doubt Stick has figured out what works best for him, for what he uses a .223/.223AI for, in the conditions he uses them in.

What the dumb sumbitch can't/won't reckon is that.... uh... most people aren't using their .223's on Prince of Wales island, as a big game boat gun.

Bless his heart, he's got his head so far up his own ass that he thinks the weather is "brown".

FWIW,

Having owned 7 different Kimbers, 4 of them Montanas and a couple dozen Sakos, I'm wont to say, I like Kimbers, but I love my Sakos.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Sako Vixen.

GWB

Wood can't hang upon a hard use Utility Rifle,that's going to see actual time afield in all conditions(as opposed to the Safe Queens thus far illustrated by the Do-Nothing Gang). That becomes more and more evident,as one stretches things out downrange. Wood walks,synthetic is static...end of story. Though I'm MUCH looking forward to the 82 Trick Move Treatise on how to make live wood stable in all weathers,by sealing this and that,sprinkling Magic Dust here and there,yada,yada. Done,seen and heard it all,thus my pleasure in swapping rifles as an extrapolation of that which do work,that which don't and more importantly why.

I do hear good things about a magfed 75-Max which is kissing lands.



'Raider,

I'm at ease in casting hooks into the gaping yaps of Texans,as they slurk the bottom of the pool in the mud. Though admittedly easy,it never don't not crack me the [bleep] up. The only thing you shoot is your mouth and I groove that though as badly as you WISH you could...you know better than to dabble rifle particulars.

Go put pellets in your Deer Feeder,batteries in your "Game" camera and practice slipping through the barbedwire in your Haybale Ghillie suit.

Laffin'!




Jeff-O,

Always a treat to listen to all the things you nearly did,with the wares you nearly had in the places you nearly went...especially when it is frosted with your heartfelt vicarious angst and that pleasing nasal whine. Say a little sumptin' about your Sako 223,Montucky 223 and the boolits slated to each. Too [bleep] funny! Hell...why don't you build a chart and wax eloquent upon all them things you've never seen or let alone done,as poignant extrapolation to your vast "experience" and "knowledge". Then really ring the bell and and try to pawn it off like you've a [bleep] clue! [bleep],you're an amazingly inept dumbphuck.

You read just enough Field & Stream,to embolden your dumbphucktitude and I'd like to pay for your next year's subscription,if only to make sure your inherent humor do not wane!

Bless your heart.





'dubya,

Points for high gloss less a scratch and windage adjustable rings,upon your "hard chargers".

Wow.

As per earlier post,

I like the Montanas


325 WSM, 308 Win, 260 Rem.

but love the Sako's


7WSM, 220 Swift, 260 Rem

GWB

I like Montana's too.

Rains a lot here, so my criteria starts with stainless steel and a synthetic stock of some flavor. I actually like laminate- if you fix the balance, I kind of like the little bit more heft, and lord knows the rain doesn't hurt them.

I like to play around at longer ranges too so it's nice to be able to stabilize longer bullets.

Where I take issue with Boxer is that I don't extrapolate from that, to calling everyone who doesn't share those requirements an idiot all full of dumbphuckitude and know-nothingness and sore [bleep] and whatever else he's tossing out these days to try to get folks worked up.

Where I grew up, stainless would be a non-issue. Walnut works just fine. And then, most people aren't using their .223's as long-range big game rifles and so don't exactly lust after heavy bullets.

But bless Boxer's heart, he will play anyone like a fish who falls for his provocations and gets horned up. It's his whole gig- piss people off then enjoy watching them get upset. It's what makes him MUCH less interesting unless watching trainwrecks is your thing. Too bad.

"Oddly" enough,nary a Montucky 223 in the fray. Cheer up though...poor dumb Jeff-O ain't ever seen or shot one either. It'd be very interesting to drive a stake and see which of you does less than the other,if only in the interest of R&D. Laffin'!

Perhaps some day,you'll knock the new off one of those Safe Queens?!? Nawwwwwwwww...THAT assuredly ain't gonna [bleep] happen.


Wow.





'O,


Your version of "rain" is commensurate with your idea of "difficult","impossible" and every other [bleep] delusion that seeps out of your head. Too bad rifles don't have hour meters upon them,as it'd put all in context. It really is a crying shame,that there is no such thing as the Imagination Olympics,as you'd have whole Nations forfeiting in your wake!

I very much enjoy that you don't let facts sway your dumbphucktitude and the ease in which you use your Imagination to craft Pretend,is rather something. It would still be [bleep] hilarious,if it were a scripted Act...but rest assured that the hilarity is vastly improved,because you are simply doing the best you can,with what very little you've got to work with. Too bad the profundity of that concise statement,will sail over your pointy head. I'm unaware of anyone who can shift their brain into a low enough [bleep] gear,to quip even in passing,that you've the first [bleep] clue about ANYTHING. Bless your heart and the ease in which you set that bar!

Feel free to cite the lat/long coordinates to the place in La-La Land in which CM is the equal of S/S and Walnut the equal of a good synthetic. Don't be shy,pound the delusion with pixels too and frost it with an eloquent tutorial reaffirming your "experience" and "knowledge" in regards to same,then cite "weather" or "rain" into the mix. I'm [bleep] crying I'm laughing soooooooooooo hard!!! Don't forget to add a coupla charts too and muse boolits,glass,twist and throats! Holy [bleep] dogschit,you are THE dumbest sonofabitch on the [bleep] Planet! (That weren't a compliment).

I savvy that you are undoubtedly on your 14th [bleep] Transplant,due the hours you set nestled atop your's on the couch and I'd not wish to slight the "magnitude"of that "accomplishment". Congratulations?

In the interest of FACTS,I'll again state plainly that: CM can't hang with S/S. Walnut can't hang with good synthetic. Twist rate,magbox latitude and boolit selection...are THE perpetual key in ALL chamberings. By design,the Sako remains a series of heavy concessions to the Montucky and Estrogen fueled subjective whining cast from the utter depths of your incredible dumbphucktitide...can't/won't change those facts. Points awarded however,for burning bandwidth once again,in regards to wares you've never seen or shot. That too is [bleep] Priceless!

Pardon the early AM jaunt,it's how I roll.

i love my Vixen but it don't get the play a Montana would... that's a fact!!!

Sir,

What is the old bromide...... Never was a horse that couldn't be rode, and never was a rider that couldn't be throwed.
I learned at an early age, that there would always be someone come along, given sufficient time that was bigger, better, tougher, richer, smarter, even if it was only in their own mind.
Consequently at my age, I tell folks I operate within a narrow band of mediocrity. Don't do anything real good, but don't do anything real bad. I'm happy with that.
So, I'll just post a little and enjoy reading what others post. I always keep in mind that this is for fun. Consequently I don't get "horned up" about anything. When Boxer was BS a few years back, we had fun playin' for a couple days when he came over and made something like 600 posts in a day and a half over at AR. I enjoyed the scenery, the rifles and the elocution.







and I do like blue steel and wood Sakos.

even have a duece with 1 in 16 twist!



and if ya' promise you won't tell anybody, I'll even admit to havin' an S-491 in 223 AI. And dang me if it don't have and 8 twist.




Best

GWB

this one has never seen a lead sled...

This one has!

GWB

ya... but TOAD likes the 264 so he's already much cooler than you... grins

No doubt about that, at my age and stage, I forgot everything I knew about bein' Cool.

but, been there, done that.

I'm down to 6.5 x 284 and 260 Rem, with my preference starting to run to the Rem as a 130 gr. Accubond @ 2800 fps muzzle velocity or less, a fellow can just about eat right up to the bullet hole.

Best

GWB

i do gotta give the piggie pic some cool points.

and a few more for the 6.5 fondness... i've dedicated one .264 to an exclusive diet of 130 gr. SS II bullets.

i can't get them to shoot for nothing in any of my 264's... how far off the lands are you?

there you have it!!! grins

i'm a 6.5 whore... i'm trying to love the 7's but that biatch is a tough one for me....

And I like killin' stuff with the Motanas.









GWB

you look kind of young in that last one.... grins

Rattle can it like a retard hopped up on Snickers and Mt. Dew and throw it in the water and you might have something!..

My grandson on his 12th birthday.

GWB

I've taken to shooting the 130 gr. Accubond in the 6.5 x 55, 260 Remington, 6.5 x 284.

and hijacking the man's thread

some more 6.5s


GWB

6.5 x 284




260 Rem

i'm right to the lands. they are not the tightest grouping bullets i've tried, but they shoot pretty good, ~.75" from a Brux Rem Sporter contour. this is the only one of my .264s i've tried them in, so i don't know how the rest would do.

the .264 eats barrels so fast that i usually just seat right to the lands, work up to pressure, and call load development done. sometimes it's over in ten rounds. the big 7s would be a better starting point, but i was so deeply invested in the .264 by the time i learned there was anything else, it would be tough to make a total switcharoo. a bushing plot Match reamer, a set of Redding Match dies, over 5K rounds of brass, a couple of spare barrels, ect...

but i do have a 7mmWSM, and two 7mm-08s

i've only got three 264's... none of which like the SII's.... i can bug hole with the Amax so i've just stuck with that. been hoping that i'd stumble across a load for the SII's but no luck.

oh, if i were in the market today... i'd buy the Kimber MT...

i think the AMAX would be tough to top.

but i'm thinking i need to try some of the 75 gr SS II .223 bullets. just for R&D.

I know scott had luck with them. i've never tried them. the Amax work fine for deer in my experience.

yea, the 75 gr. Amax are great bullets and easy to pick up dirt cheap from guys that thought they could run them through AR magazines.

That made me laugh..

'dubya,

Bless your heart! Nothing says "hardcore" like unmarred gloss stocks,windage adjustable rings,the absence of scope caps,4-wheelers,Domesticated Pets,flip flops and fences!

Holy schit,you're a [bleep] riot...that was GREAT!

Wow.



GreatWapoozy,

As per always,I love your pics. Jeff-O [bleep] near makes you look "smart" and "busy".

Laffin'!




toad,

I might mebbe give one of them A-Maxes a whirl,as I hear good things.(grin)

Glad to see you're still among the land of the livin'.
Always happy to hear from ya'

Best

GWB

'dubya',

Points awarded for the inherent(though oblivious) humor,to cajole a muzzle brake on a heavy barreled/laminate stocked 223AI,opting windage adjustable rings and a Burris scope...setting atop a Lead Sled.

I'd still pay money for a video of you sneaking up on a glass of water.

Wow.

Larry,

Would the glass have to be 1/2 empty or half full?

I do much better with red food coloring

[img]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/glenn1221/latestgunstuff/IMG_0247.jpg[/img]
and if it's rye whiskey, I'm there!

Would it be free range, or could I have it tethered to a feeder leg?
And, last, but not least in the order of importance,
How much would you be willing to pay?

Your friend,
GWB

PS: if you were willing to wager a couple benjamins, I might could buy an ol' Kimber Montana to replace at least one of the three I got rid of(at a profit I might add)!

'dubya,

I think it'd be a breeze for you to solicit enough donations,so as to conjure up enough Benjamins to remount your beloved "Trophy" properly. Though perhaps you were striving to attain the "natural" look of a Rat on acid,while riding a skateboard?

Points awarded for the humor associated of T2i images gunned in Program Mode,as your literal Swan Song. I'd simply suggest,that in conjunction with your dire need to write/apply notes in all things the Rifle,that you'd be well served to do likewise for Photography. That the obvious escapes you,most certainly do arrange for sublime humor upon a grandiose scale and the belly laughs are MUCH appreciated!

If only you could savvy the inherent humor you provide.

Wow.

We could all only hope to be 1/2 as wonderful as you think you are

'74,

Dirty trick to yourself,to even begin to hint you could hang...but it is [bleep] funny.

Take notes,apply same and only open your yap when discussing things you've been privvy to in the firsthand. I realize that'll be quite a blow to your Imagination and fascination with playing Pretend,though it will assuredly help your Game.

Just sayin'.

Thing is I don't pretend to be something I am not and I don't feel the need to impose my personal thoughts upon everyone else.

I've never once said on this forum or any others that I'm the best shot, I have the best rifles, etc. What one person likes, maybe the next person doesn't and thankfully I don't have to like the same thing.

You and our liar in chief have one thing in common, you think you're opinion/thoughts are what everyone should believe.

Usually people like that have one thing in common, trying to make up for something else that's lacking (just saying).

Lar'

back at ya'

and with that, I think I'll go out and buy some lunch with the profit derived from the sale of one of my Montanas, leaving you with a few words from a fellow traveler......

The Men who don't fit in.
by RW Service

There's a race of men that don't fit in,
A race that can't stay still;
So they break the hearts of kith and kin,
And they roam the world at will.
They range the field and they rove the flood,
And they climb the mountain's crest;
Theirs is the curse of the gypsy blood,
And they don't know how to rest.

If they just went straight they might go far;
They are strong and brave and true;
But they're always tired of the things that are,
And they want the strange and new.
They say: "Could I find my proper groove,
What a deep mark I would make!"
So they chop and change, and each fresh move
Is only a fresh mistake.

And each forgets, as he strips and runs
With a brilliant, fitful pace,
It's the steady, quiet, plodding ones
Who win in the lifelong race.
And each forgets that his youth has fled,
Forgets that his prime is past,
Till he stands one day, with a hope that's dead,
In the glare of the truth at last.

He has failed, he has failed; he has missed his chance;
He has just done things by half.
Life's been a jolly good joke on him,
And now is the time to laugh.
Ha, ha! He is one of the Legion Lost;
He was never meant to win;
He's a rolling stone, and it's bred in the bone;
He's a man who won't fit in.

Best

GWB

I always like Service...

'74,

Bless your Know-Nothin'/Do-Nothin' heart! You pretend to have a [bleep] clue and you assuredly do not and if only to work your Imagination some more and bolster your Pretend Portfolio...please feel free to cite anything/anywhere that I've mentioned,that you feel is "mistaken". As per always,I'll take the time to use little words so that even you can understand and then I'll joyfully rub your nose in your own stupidity.

I'm afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess and cited simplistic mechanical FACTS,that run polar opposite to what you'd very much like to believe...which IS funnier than [bleep]! In fairness however and if only to bolster your profound insecurity(s),I'm easily the best I've ever seen with a rifle and it'd be news to me if that was a "secret". That due simply to the fact that noone I know shoots as much as I,let alone with the multitude of means. I've a few sound rifles,didn't know that to be a "secret" either and curiously enough,spent primers remain THE Supreme Tutorial. Now I'd not wish to quell your quest,to be the first person on the Planet who got good with a rifle,by simply talking about it. Quite the opposite actually,in that I groove on the very notion and am rooting for your Imagination to arrange same,because schit simply don't get any [bleep] funnier than THAT!

As per always...(3) Midol and 500cc's of Vagisil in your usual locations,should get you through yet another day.

Happy Imagination to you!



'dubya',


I'm glad you found something you can handle for a change(plagiarism),as it's obviously far more "rewarding" for you to pinch the paragraphs of others,rather than "flaunt" how very little you have to work with.

Was gonna mention if only in passing,the "nuances" associated with AV Mode,AI Servo,Evaluative Metering,back button focus,separating metering from shutter trip,gunning native ISO's and other "tidbits" germane...but I'm much enjoying that you poke muzzle brakes,Lead Sleds,windage adjustable rings and schit glass on cameras too. You are mired in cluelessness from stem to stern and in all regards,with everything. Don't get me wrong,that is VERY [bleep] impressive!

Allow me a few thousand poignant words,from this morning...if only because the crux is germane,across the course. All puns be intended.






Will happily trade rifles,if only to bolster the already incredible [bleep] humor associated with The Do-Nothing Gang and their Safe Queen "Adventures"!

Wow.

It's the reaction people like you respond best to, but sit on this and spin around a few times

Really do appreciate the offer, but I best decline as I'm happy with my for the most part blue steel and wood............






From time to time I do cross over to the dark side!







Best

GWB

Hey Camp Bitch,
Ya got your jammy's and tooth brush all packed for your next turn at the cheese factory?......








Well?

'74,

Might I infer this to be yet another of your long and awkward silences,that copiously frosts your need to cajole your Imagination into paving your Pretend World with Fantasy?

If only to stay the crux,I'll reiterate your Prescription: As per always...insert (3) Midol and 500cc's of Vagisil into your usual locations,if only because it should get you through yet another day.

As an aside,you'll always want to start by [bleep] yourself,if only because you'll get more puzzy.

Bless your Know-Nothing/Do-Nothing heart!




'dubya,

Much enjoying that you are shy the faculties to know better.

Though hardly "surprised" that gravity escapes you and your ammo "storage" means,upon your Safe Queens.

Wow.



Nrut,

Groovin' on your pics as always!

Good on you to make Magnum Douche,bigsqueeze and Jeff-O seem like "players".

Laffin'!

Squirrel Boy,
Your'e the attention whore around here with the camera..
Not me...



But ya almost got me imagining what it would be like to own a camera..

Let's see, are you implying that the pointy end ought to go in the chamber, and the muzzle pointed in a particular direction, so as to aid the effect of gravity?

I think I've got that part down.........













[img]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/glenn1221/DSC03133.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/glenn1221/DSC03193.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/glenn1221/DSC03012.jpg[/img]

but as I'm always keen to improve my hunting skills, I'm open for advice.

Best

GWB

love the black buck!

Me too




How sweet it is!

Makes excellent jerky.
Or, take a bottle of zesty Italian Dressing, 4 oz. teriyaki sauce, garlic powder, black pepper, and Tony Chacheries Creole seasoning. Mix ingredients together add BB backstrap, marinate for 24 hours. Take it out cut butterfly steaks, grill over mesquite coals 3 minutes on a side and SCARF.

Best
GWB

I don't know what it is about that tinny little [bleep] but i really love them! they taste good too! my eldests...

oh, btw, 223AI 64 gr PP formed load. still have the bullet! kids love that rifle!

Outstanding.

Great picture. Fine looking youngster. Enjoy every minute you can with him. The simpler and more one on one the better. They grow up so fast.

My oldest is now 30. He started hunting with me when he was six. I had the pleasure of putting him on this buck this year, it was his Christmas present.



He took it at 30 paces with his crossbow.

I now have a 3 year old grandson. He makes everything new again. We're trying to do our part to raise him right. I've got about thirty mounts upstairs in what I call my "game room". It has become his nursery. Before we put him down for a nap, we name the animals,and tell them nite-nite. Lately when he has been staying the night, we take a flashlight, sneak upstairs and hunt the different animals. What a blast.
Best

GWB

that's awesome! my boys still hunt all my mounts though the oldest is getting too cool for that but it's still fun!

Great pics, Paul and GWB!

Actually yours too Boxer.

I know I've said this b4 Paul but that's easily one of top best pics ever on the Fire!

Well done

Dober

Nice pics!

'dubya,

Bless your heart...the Texas version of "Hunting" sure as schit ain't.

Still groovin' on the windage adjustable rears and how very suited they are to your "hard core" needs!

I bet you are a gate opening Ninja and plum sinister at reloading a feeder.


Laffin'!



Nrut,

Pardon my typical morning's realization,fueling your Imagination...it's how I roll.

You'll always have Pretend.

Bless your heart.