Help me decide...I have narrowed down my BG / DG hunting rifle purchase down to 2 or maybe a third?
Sako Kodiak or Brown Bear models in .375 H7H vs.
the CZ Magnum Express .375 H&H:

CZ:
The Safari Classics line from CZ-USA features the CZ single set trigger system set up to your specifications, matte or gloss blue finish on metal parts, #1 Fancy grade American Walnut stock with dual crossbolts and straight comb, glass bedded to the individual action, and a barrel band sling mount.
The rifles chambered in .505 Gibbs and .500 Jeffery include a mercury recoil reducer installed in the stock as well. We have also added several optional upgrades that you can add at the time you place your order. They include bolt jewelling, a muzzle brake, ebony fore end tip, rust or satin blue finish, weather resistant coating, and more.
CZ 550 embodies aesthetic elegance and ergonomic design. On closer inspection the heart of the machine shows its time honored features.
Mauser style claw extractor
Square bridge receiver
Hammer forged barrel
Single set trigger
The CZ 550 has a positive 2-position safety. All CZ 550's feature a classic square bridge receiver with a 19mm dovetail milled right into the receiver for the mounting of optics. For accuracy and long life these rifles are fitted with hammer forged barrels.
Price $2510.00 USD

Sako:[/b]
SAKO [b]85 BROWN BEAR has an action which is designated Long (L) action. The ACTION continue to offer traditional SAKO features such as: action sizes matched to cartridges; mechanical ejec- tion and integral tapered scope mount rail. Additionally there is a controlled feed on all models to ensure reliable cartridge feed to the chamber on all situations (Pat. pend.). The MAGAZINE is detachable and it can also be loaded through the ejection port. Magazine release is prevented against accidental release (Pat. pend.). The single-stage TRIGGER pull is adjustable from 1 kg to 2 kg (2 to 4 lbs). The SAFETY features a mechanism that allows loading and unloading of the rifle with safety engaged. The straight, classic STOCK is made of brown mattlaquered laminated hardwood and reinforced with two cross-bolts. Strong, extended recoil lug screwed on the fore-end. Band type front swivel around the barrel in front of the forend. SAKO 85 BROWN BEAR is available with adjustable open sights. Integral rails for the scope mounts are on the top of the receiver. The short, totally free-floating bull BARREL is cold hammer-forged.
TECHNICAL DATA
Action
L
caliber
375 H&H Mag
rate of twist
12�
Overall length L Barrel length L
Weight L Length of pull L
1065 mm (42") 540 mm (21 1/4") 3.6 kg (7 15/16 lbs) 355 mm (14")
Cartridge capacity L 5 rounds (1 in chamber, 4
$1,950.00

So they are around the same cost...well oddly the CZ is 'bout $500. more

It is the 20"(CZ) to 21"(Sako) barrel length and hence shorter overall, that I am interested in among other features...
BTW, some have said that the Sakos are NOT really "controlled feed"...though the Co. says they are...what gives ?

Go to a dealer that stocks both rifles. Pick them up and shoulder them. Close your eyes and shoulder them. See how the sights on each line up when you open your eyes. Which one feels and fits better? Which trigger do you like best? Which action feels smoother and easier to manipulate?

After performing this examination, buy the one that feels "right" to you. From a mechanical standpoint, both are fine rifles. The CZ is true CRF, the Sako 85 isn't ( it's a modified push feed and doesn't have a long claw extractor). The CZ has a floorplate, the Sako a secure detachable box.

In the end, it's all fit and feel. You won't go wrong with either one.

BTW, just to confuse you even more, while you're shopping, take a look at the new Winchester Model 70 Safari. It's a lot of rifle and costs less than either the Sako or the CZ.

Personally I'd go sako, but fit and feel will let you know.

I'd go with the Sako Kodiak. I don't have any CZ big bores, but the Kodiak is silky smooth and the the iron sights are great. It's a few hundred cheaper and stainless/laminate. The Sako isn't a controlled feed like the CZ but I've never had any extraction issues with a Sako. The smoothness of the action on a Sako vs a CZ gives me more confidence that I wouldn't hang up a round trying the cycle the rifle in a moment of panic.

Sako.

Dink

I'm a Sako looney, but consider CZ first when pondering such a rifle.

Look at this route to bring your costs down and/or perhaps give you more for your money.

American Hunting Rifles

Sako or pre-'64 model 70.

I think the Plane Jane CZ 550 American Safari would be a LOT cheaper.

good luck

Yes, but Barrel & gun too long...4 or 5' more...

A gunsmith could cut/crown the barrel and re-install the sight. Might be more trouble and cost than it's worth, but thought I'd mention it.

There are still some Ruger Magnums in 375 H&H running around although I know that's not what you're looking at.

Gunbroker Auction - Ruger 375 H&H

Just throwing ideas at you. Of the two you mention, I like the CZ.

Not as smooth out of the box as the Sako the CZ will smooth up with use and is about as tough as a rifle can get.

I would start with a factory CZ and accessorize to taste

This is where AHR makes sense.

Of the two it would be Sako for me

I have the longer barreled CZ and it has never been a problem for me. I do hunt in the bush so am used to thick stuff. They smooth out quickly and are very accurate with the express sites.

I have both, Sako's and CZ's. To me a very hard choice. The Sako will indeed be smoother out of the box, but the CZ will get there with use. No idea what the issue is with the longer barrel? The CZ to me is the better DG rifle, but have never had a Sako fail to load or extract. I would pick the one that feels the best in my hands. Both will be accurate and well made.

A curious thing also...Also ...MANY others on other boards, are telling me that the SAKO is NOT a "TRUE CFR" ...not like a Winchester 70 or the CZ Safari...
...I don't understand that???...either it is "Push Feed like a Remington or Weatherby or it is "controlled feed" (CFR) like the Win or CZ / Mauser ?
What is not TRUE CFR mean[/B][/I]...SAKO lists it as CFR???
Either it IS or ISN'T...no?

The TWO (& only two) 85's I've seen are True CRF ... just they do it with a non-claw extractor. The cartridge just slides up into the boltface held in place by the extractor. Seems folks get there panties knotted if it doesn't have a BIG claw extractor ala CZ/M70/Ruger. Hell, a big claw extractor isn't a guarantee of CRF as some M77's came with claw extractors and were push feeds.

I again admit .... I have never owned one and have only witnessed them at the range, one 270, and the other an 06. It is also possible that those two were abnomalities .... ???

Sako calls their system a Sako Round Control System. It's not a traditional CRF in the sense of the Mauser design. It may very well be a reliable round controlling system, but I'm not qualified to say.

Here is a review on Chuck Hawks website: Sako 85 Rifles - Chuck Hawks

If you equate CRF with a claw extractor the Sako ain't the rifle for you.

Sako!

Sako all the way, Don't let these guys talk you into "true CRF" not being good enough to get the job done for Yogi's(PF/CRF is one of the most heated debates on this site). The Grizz will never know that it's not true crf.

I would carry either one with confidence and not think twice. Pondering over with one to purchase, now that is the fun part! I grew up shooting Mausers and Pre 64's so have a preference for them. I like CRF actions with claw extractors. That being said...I own remingtons, Sakos, weatherbys, Steyrs, and others that aren't CRF and would trust them all. To me a big bore rifle must replicate the bolt guns used in the early to mid 20th century used by the famous hunters we all have read about. Call me a purist or prejudiced, which ever you prefer! I like the CZ, if you like the Sako...good choice.

bullets4yogi,

I have never owned or fired a CZ rifle so I can't comment on them. I have owned several Sako rifles over the years. I currently have four. When the 75 Sako was introduced with the three locking lug design I was excited to hear that the weight of the rifle had been reduced. The 85 is considerably lighter than the 75. The change in the locking lug design on the 75/85 created what I consider to be a major engineering flaw. The fixed ejector on the 75/85 was move from the 8:00 position to the 6:00 position. This causes a spent round to be ejected UP then OUT. Unless you mount a scope high the ejected round will hit the bottom of your scope or the windage turret. I do not like a high mounted scope, so on several occasions I have ejected cases and found them lying on top of rounds in the magazine. This isn't a question of how much speed you use to cycle the bolt. This is true for the 75 and 85. This was never a problem on older Sako rifles. If you plan to use open sights on your .375 H&H it will not be an issue. It might not be an issue if you use high rings. I would not be concerned about using an older Sako large caliber rifle that has the fixed ejector in the 8:00 position, but not a 75/85 where I might need a quick follow up shot on dangerous game. I am not the first to bring this issue up on this forum. After having used older Sako's and the 75 and 85 I consider older Sako's to be superior (except the weight issue) to the 75/85.

Regards,

G2

Gramps they don't all do it. I've had 3 85's now. 270wsm did it occasionally, 270win was horrible and wore the finish off my scope, and a 7mmRM that doesn't do it at all even with the lowest rings I have. Dunno what that means but many people don't have a problem with ejection on Sakos.

I have heard of ejection problems on the 75's and 85's.My 75 Finnlite has no issues.Maby I just got lucky.I don't think the mounts are extremly high.These are the Optilock Ringmounts.They only come in what they consider low.This is with a Conquest 3-9X40.

Not so.

http://www.sako.fi/optilockproducts.php?basesrings

Actually, RINGMOUNTS, only come in low. This is a link to the product that RH Clark mentions, not the separate base/ring set up that you link to, which does come in several heights.

http://www.sako.fi/optilockproducts.php?ringmounts

Ah! Sorry, misread the original post.

On the same token...you won't be able to mount anything low on a CZ rifle due to the high bolt lift. Their stock ring mount is ridiculously high. Talking about design flaws, the CZ has it from day one. A competent gunsmith can bend the handle a bit so it doesn't hit the scope's ocular bell. BTW I own CZ and Sako and love them all.

I say Sako ....but I never held a CZ. I love my Sakos.

I have never had an issues with any of my Sako m75 rifles with the Optilock ring/ bases or ringmount set up with cases being ejected. I thought this was more of a m85 issue.

I use "low" mount with Leupold 40mm scopes.

A Sako Kodiak would be a great choice for sure.

As mentioned, go and handle both, see what fits you the best.

Sako.

Good Evening to all,

I am glad to hear that some of you are not having any problems with your 75/85 Sako's. But for many like myself who use a low mounted scope, proper ejection is still a problem. I have looked at and thought about this quite a bit, and come to the following conclusion. Beretta could still have had their slick three locking lug design and no problem ejection by simply enclosing the face of the bolt except for the extractor cut insuring strength, and using a plunger type ejector on the bolt face. Spent cases would have been ejected at close to right angle never flipping upward.

Regards,

G2

I think the SAKO is the higher quality rifle and would go with that. It is likely the CZ would not feed reliable and you would have work to be done on it. The CZ is also un necessarly heavy.

I have had ZERO feeding issues with my CZ. The bolt was a bit stiff when new but is just fine now with some use. Sako's are a great rifle, I have and have had a couple of them. The CZ is a bit heavy, but in a large caliber that is not always a bad thing. Pick the one that fits best. I would say that PH's use the CZ BRNO more than Sako's.

I have a CZ550 chambered in 375H&H which was worked over a fair amount having a modified follower and mag box so it currently feeds reliably well. New out of the box, it was unreliable. Its main drawback, in my opinion, is the 550mag platform is too proud and heavy for a H&H chambering. It's a good rifle if made reliable and is fully vetted, but I feel it is better suited for the larger chamberings where you'd appreciate the added weight.

I also have a current M85 Black Bear in 9.3x62, which is basically a Finnlight with Rechnagel sights. This rifle is a handier package compared to the 550mag, and the 9.3 is not too far off the H&H in close range terminal performance. I've had a Kodiak in the H&H, but I currently prefer the handiness of the lighter Black Bear. This particular M85 is the single best feeding production bolt rifle I've handled straight out of the box. With or without a mounted scope, it is reliable to the extreme in the feeding/ejection department. Someone had previously posted a video of D'Arcy Echols testing one of his custom rifles for feeding at a blinding speed. My recent Sako was the first production rifle I ever handled that could duplicate this feat straight out the box. The CZ was a can crusher in comparison prior to the work.

Based on my experience, in chamberings such as 338wm, 9.3x62/66, or 375H&H, I'd have a preference for the Sako over the CZ.

Best