Whew, after reading through 34 pages of some crazy-ass [bleep] in the 'other' .223 thread (god, my head hurts), I wanted to get some useful info. I never thought I'd be considering a .223 rifle, but I also thought that of the .308 and my T3 SL really changed my mind (the 5R didn't hurt, either).

So for those of you WHO ACTUALLY HAVE ONE AND USE IT , I'd like some input. I'm not looking at going full blown custom and after schlepping both the T3 and 5R around I want a light, rough and ready to go banging around rifle.

I had actually been thinking about a .243/AI (Stick gave me some good info)with the 105 Amaxes or, in .224 cal, a .22-250/AI but I keep coming back to the cost of shooting the .223 vis-a-vis the others. Components are awfully cheap and I'd be using it for varmints and steel.

Anyway, rifle-wise I've been looking really hard at the Tikka T3. It has the 1-8" and is svelte enough for my taste along with typical Tikka accuracy. Why they don't twist their .22-250's at 8", I don't know (or at least offer the option). My local Sportsmans Warehouse has a Superlite in .22-250 and if it had a 1-8", it probably be home with me by now.

Sooner rather than later, I would send the rifle down the road to be AI'd. Is this a simple reamer job with barrel on or do they remove the barrel? I'm asking b/c I would be primarily shooting the 75 gr A-Max and figured if they remove the barrel they could set it back a tad and throat for the 75 Max at my mag length (correct?). BTW, anyone know the COAL for the .223 T3's? The conversion would be primarily for the reason of less/no trimming while gains in velocity would not be looked upon with disfavor!

Any other suggestions? I'm not really a gas gun guy so am looking at bolts that are eminently carryable. It prolly won't be hunted with as much as my other rifles so I'm thinking the Montana might be a bit pricey for a 'fun' gun, but the Kimbers are sweet. I'm kinda looking at going 'cheap' right now and upgrading later, if warranted. Is there any reason NOT to seriously go the Tikka route? Perhaps a Remmy (although they're twisted 9, I believe, and then I need a new trigger and stock).

Any info and experience (good/bad/mistakes/wish-I'd-done-this) would prove invaluable and save me time and money.

Try not to hijack this thread with dick/vag/do-nothing/insult-trading/etc. B.S.--you can add it to the other thread or hang out with the pretenders in the Religious/Political/B.S. forum (aka Campfire). Although, hot chick pics are never not appreciated!

Pictures of all .223/AI and game taken with such would be welcome.

TIA

BTW,

Make sure to give me the particulars of your rifle and post pics so as to give me maximum food for mental mastication.

One other thing...I kindly ask SEAFIRE, BLACKHEART, JEFFO, OKOK, WAGESLAVE, DEFLAVE, and others not to respond to each other or Boxer when he replies (as I assume/hope he will). Keep that chit to yourself. Post only YOUR EXPERIENCE with the .223/AI--thanks.

You left out the Ruger MKII/Hawkeye! They're 9 twist, CRF, 22" barrel, hinged floor plate and have goodstocks and triggers available for them. I was going to buy an SS when I was looking at .223's but I gave in and went with a Montana. I havent AI'd it (yet) but this 9 twist with 75 amaxs "kissing" and leaving the muzzle around 2900-2950 fps group just dandy. Of course 8 twist would be the cats azz, but that'd mean shooting a T3 or worse, a Savage.



Another cool thing about a 9 twist .223 is it'd make a perfect rechambered barrel in .22-250 AI on down the road

Archie,

Didn't leave out any specific rifles on purpose--just figured people would give me their input. One thing I really liked on my T3 .308 (and was a big factor in choosing it) was the stock and trigger were far better than the Rem so I figured that into the price.

I am certainly not adverse to a Montana. Yours does quite well, obviously. Do your rounds feed through the mag at kissing length with the 75 Maxes? And for reference sake, what is that COAL?

Thanks

And yet another thing...

Give me your load data, esp. with the 75 Amax (COAL, jump, powder, etc). Seems H335 and TAC are popular. After whittling down my rifle battery, I just have mainly Varget on hand which works great in everything I have (but not the .223, I believe).

COAL was stumpy out of the box. 2.25 or some such non-sense. Last week I took the mag box to work and proceeded with the chop-cut-rebuild to 2.5". A few pm's with Stick and its now back in action



It would kiss stuff like 55 vmaxs and FMJ's but an AMax needs around 2.45", Im not sure exactly what the lengths are as I don't measure COALs anymore. I just Kiss or if a kiss cant happen I load out to mag constraints.

I havent tried 335 or TAC although they obviously are great choices as proven by many on here. 25-26 grains of Varget under a kissed Amax net you 2900+ fps launch speed and do well. That is of course in non-AI form...I know nothing about the AI, but I'm sure you and me both will learn a lot once the AI guys chime in

I just bought a pound of RL15 to try with them as its supposed to be another dandy powder.

Archie,

Excellent info, thanks.

Got to remove my foot from my mouth--I see your groups were shot with Varget and just checked Hodgdon's site and Varget gives the best velocity with lowest pressure with the 75 JLK's. My 7th ed Hornady manual doesn't list a load for the 75 Max in the .223 (prolly, figured to be too long). I thought assumed, (erroneously), that Varget might be too slow even in AI but seems like it would work great which would please me not having to keep another powder in stock--just buy some more bulk Varget!

In regards to OAL, my fear is that the Tikka wouldn't 'work' with the 75 Maxs unless you could alter the mag and/or bolt stop and I don't know how feasible that is. I have read on other threads where the blind box rifles can usually be modified (Rems, Kimber, etc.) That was also the impetus behind my reaming question. If they can set back my barrel and throat to my specs maybe that will solve any problems--unless that just puts the 75's too deep in the case. Hopefully, someone in the know will chime in on that.

Here are a few links that I found helpful.

223 AI (1)
223 AI (2)
223 AI (3)

And a pic of my 223 AI, currently with eddief getting a few improvements done. Haven't gotten to shoot it much

Mojo,

I believe Rancho Loco modified his Tikka mag box, and posted a thread on the mods.

Regards,
Marty

Mojo...

Ive got two .223AIs but mine are considered more 'pedestrian' as they are the loose twist 1 in 9 on a Rem M7 Predator and a 1 in 12 On a Remington 700 stainless.
I havent gone the 1 in 8 twist so I could shoot a 75 grainer for a couple reasons...My loose twists were more cost effective to create ( used factory take-off Bbls...) they shoot better than I'm capable of shooting them, they shoot fast and flat out to 300 yds, inside of which 99% of my game is killed...and lastly, shooting 50 Gr Barnes TTSXs and 53 Gr TSXs..they have quickly killed everything Ive pointed them at...
Also the faster, lighter bullets have not neccesitated any mag mods...
Besides...I have a .243 that shoots 80 grainers..... ( If I feel the need for something that 'big'...and I havent in three years...)

The M7 Predator...



The 700 Stainless

Here's mine. I've had a few over the years.



Rem 700 Stainless SA (moly Coated black), BDL
Pacnor 1:8 at 21" in a Lilja #2 contour
Bansner sheep hunter stock, 13.5" LOP with a decelerator pad (stock work done by me)
Tuned factory trigger
Leupold 3.5-10x40 with M1 knobs in Talleys

I shoot mostly 75 AMAXs in it, and can get around 3050fps under 26.2gr of RL15

Best I can do right now. Patiently waiting, the ship date is actually the order date.

Looks like it should be a good one. Only mistake I see is the LOP is a little short... I like about 14-1/4".

I don't have a 223AI but I still like Mojo's Avatar.
"AAAAchmed the Dead Terrorist" Funny stuff!

I don't wanna turn this thread sour like the other one..


But I think you suck....


just sayin'......

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that all americans are bound together by a shared genetic mutation - that produces unusually short arms.

Yeah, looks to be a very nice rifle when done. Hope it turns out great.

Don't make me post more pics of Toby!!!! He is getting a little high headed. Keeps hitting the "My Stuff" header with his paw, then goes straight to his pic. When I move him off the chair to get on the computer, he is giving me this low growl....Just sayin'

I'm about to bring another dog in...but it'll be a couple years before he can kick anybody's azz....

14" or a tad more is just about right until I get some heavy winter clothes on. Then I'm neck stretching.

More than just a little jealous here!

Don't want to hijack a thread, but when are you going to post some trout pics?
Always has been one of the summer highlights for me here.


Addition:....and I sure do miss seeing Ingwe Dog helping out.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments.

You're never too young to write a will. Scott with two T's

We dont even start fishing till late july here, so fresh pics will be a little while yet...Yep, I hate that Ingwedog gets left home, but IngwedogII is great on trout and Im training her successor this summer....

IngwedogII...



IngwedogII is 58 pounds...which would make that trout about 4 lbs...

I'll let you fill in Your bill to info, but I'll you My ship to info...

Dober

Too late...I already called Mel and told him I was battue'.......

Scott,

You were one of the first to give me some great advice here and to this day I appreciate it. I know you would put it to good use....

Here's my "opportunity rifle", it's done filled a few arks....grin

I use 50 TNT's and 53 TSX's and it's done fine for me.

To me the Ack thing means that ones been listening to Dogzapper is is one of his disicples, one wants another 150 fps or so and that can't stand trimming. Trimming's the one that pretty well put me over the edge and into the Ack camp.

Dober

Dogzapper, no trimming and Steelhead did it for me too...

Bastids have cost me some dinero!!

Took awhile to track the pic down, but this is the real reason for me to order one. I swear he is afraid he is going to lose that thing,,,,

Ingwe,
Have you noticed any difference, accuracy wise and in killing power, between thos two bulletes?
Do you prefer one over the other?
Thanks!
BBerg

Bberg: I havent honestly noticed any verifiable differences in performance between the two, and Ive shot a number of deer and antelope with them...
Go with what you like

Just got word that my Remington 700 SA is headed back from Pac-Nor with a SS Super Match 8 twist 223AI tube installed. Was going to sell it but may just have to order a McMillan and some brass & bullets.

My 223AI is just a factory Ruger 223 that I had Gre-tan rechamber. I am hitting 3900fps with 40gr Sierras out of a 22" tube. It actually outperforms my 204.

Is that SamO? I swear I saw him in that hat...and in a pose like that....

Yeah, +1 Battue!

good info, guys. Still hoping Steelhead and Boxer chime in. Between Archie and Ingwe I'm thinking maybe a 9'er aint too bad. Sportsmans here usually has good deals on the Rem SPS Stainless. Perhaps have the barrel chopped to 21" when i have it AI'd--put a Timney in and a better stock and go.

Ingwe had a good point--I could still shoot 75's but my .308 will handle any 'heavy' lifting. Anyway, I'm still planning so thanks for the info.

Here's my "Halibut" blueprint 223 AI



Rem 700 SA
Pacnor ss 3 grooove 1-8" twist #2 contour @ 22"
Mcmillan Rem classic
Talley LW
Leupold 3.5-10x40 M1 Turret
Moly 75 Amax kissin' @ 3050 via R15
Moly 53 TSX kissin' @ 3600+ via Benchmark

STOOPID Accurate...

Why the 223/223AI over a 22-250 or AI version?

I see a lot of guys use the PN 3 groove 1-8"--must be good. My goal would be 3000 with the 75 Max (with great accuracy, obviously). I'm thinking a 21" should get me there.

Some great looking rifles, guys. Keep 'em coming.

Lots more for minimal gain. Something said for modest appetite with big performance. Oft times more is just more and enough is enough.

#2 douglas 1-8 twist @ 21" in a Ti take off.

Scott knows the specs on this one better but it's a howa Pac-Nor 1-10 @ 21".

M7 Pac-nor 1-8 twist #1 @ 22"

M7 Pac-Nor 1-8 LW Contour @ 21".

22-250AI Howa 1-8 #2 ???

Agreed! Fast twist 223 AI's can do soooo much with sooooo little...

If'n i need a leetle more grunt i reach for my 243 AI...

Tho i wouldn't say no to a slick 22-250 AI *grin*

Broughton you Pole....

RidgeLine;
Is that a 50Black/50Red swirly?
Thanks,
BBerg

Why do people like this round,ho so do I.

BBerg that'd be 60%Black 20%Orange 20%Red...

I knew that. Just testing you.grins

a beauty it is.

Here is my cheaply done 223 ackley. It is a Remington 700 ADL that I had ackleyed and barrel cut back to 21 inches. Not counting scope I have about $550 into gun, brass, dies, and gunsmithing. It makes a great pickup/4wheeler gun cause Im not worried about banging it around. The rifle shoots everything I have tried in it up to 55 grain bullets. I havent tried anything heavier in it. My bullet im shooting now is the 40 grain noslers as its flat shooting. Its going to be my predator calling rifle this winter. I may put it in a different stock not sure yet. Im shooting the 40s cause I figure if it gets to windy for those I will just pull out the 25-284 im having built right now.

That looks like it'll work just fine...and the 40s oughta be good on fur...
If you ever get a chance to clock it, Id like to hear about the speed..

Havent clocked my 24 incher yet, but Im getting 3403 with a 55 grainer out of a 22 incher..

The 40 oughta scream....

ingwe my 40s are right around 3850fps. I can push them faster but my brass last longer at this speed and 3850 is plenty flat shooting for a calling rifle. Now I need to get a meat getter load worked up for it. Hoping to fill a few tags with it this year.

Ingwe,
Even when started fast, these bullets shed their speed very quickly... When hunting deer, do you limit your shots to some 250 - 300 yards? What is the longest you have taken deer at? Have you noticed any significant reduction in the wound chanel at these long distances?
Thank you in advance for your advise/comments.
BBerg

Veddy good question...in the AI I DO limit my shots...300 yards is my "comfort Zone" Certainly I could hit them farther away ( I hit PDs quite a bit farther away...) but I do want to make sure I get the bullet performance. the vast majority of critters I shoot are 200 yds or under...on those exceptions I have truly not been able to detect any difference in bullet performance/wound channel...and I do all my own butchering/ autopsies
Got a big whitetail doe last year @275yds and an antelope at 308yds Both with 50 Gr. TTSX Both DRT. Those were as far as Ive killed with the AI...

pics...






Bullet must still be smokin' along pretty good at those ranges...didn't "catch" a bullet in either one of these...

Here is a picture of the easy route:



Travis

here is mine 700 LVSF rechamber



going to 1-8" here later this year. does pretty good with the 52gr A-Max.

[quote=Paul Walukewicz]M7 Pac-Nor 1-8 LW Contour @ 21".






Totally and absolutely one of the top 2 or pics to ever grace the Fire!

Dober

I could be liking that configuration.....alot

Been a good one for me, bought it new when the first came out shot a ton of shells through it and 4-5 years ago I had it rechambered, new firing pin and some fluting on the bolt. Since then it's formed 1200 rounds of brass and still can sling them in there. I wish that the sask gov knew that it could kill deer but I guess it will have to keep doing what it's doing.

I built a .222 on rthe LVSF platform and REALLY like it for varmints...Ive got another LVSF Barrel and a new stock...gonna hafta put something else together in that configuration....

I'm going to have an LVSF .17 Rem barrel before the year is up...


Travis

Hmmmmmmmmm.....

We should talk.....


After I get you good and drunk...............

All yours. Will cost you a beer though.

I have to stop posting on this thread now or the OP will get angry.


Travis

Yeah...me too....

Travis,

You're more than welcome on "my" thread--I love your posts. Just didn't want the pissing match to carry over from the other one!

I would like more info on your 'easier' route--barrel, contour, twist, stock, load data, etc. Like I said in the OP any firsthand info is welcome--I'm all ears.

PS. Ingwe, you're always welcome, as well. Again, it just seems some guys jump athread to attack certain posters and then all goes to hell. Makes for some entertaining threads but not when one is trying to learn something!

BTW,

Travis, did you ever get your 9.3 dies sorted out? Did the Reddings fix your firing problem or was it something else?

It is a 22-250 with a 1-8" twist. Douglas #2 finished @ 22". It is built on a Weatherby Vanguard and wears a McMillan Sako Classic. I have not had it very long but I am getting around 3,200fps easily.

I was on the fence as well. I have another rifle I was going to do a .223AI project with. But in the end I went with a SAAMI two-fitty due to my inherent laziness. No fancy throat, mag box mods, and I did not have to order another set of GD dies (which just doesn't bring me the joy it once did). I also have a good supply of 22-250 brass, and honestly, a bag of the 250 stuff only costs me about $6.00 more at the local gun shop.

Anyway, just some food for thought.


Travis

I am still partial sizing the Prvi brass that fire formed in my chamber right out of the gate.

I tried to order some Redding dies on my last Graf order but they were out of stock. I have to order some more A-Maxes though, I'll get the Redding's and some Hornady brass with that order.


Travis