At my local shop somebody has traded in a Ruger 77 synthetic/stainless 338 WM. Now I have little to no use for one (yet) but I feel it would round out my rifle battery. I've never given recoil much thought before. Largest centerfire rifle I own is a m700 30-06. I've shot it exclusively for deer since I was 14-15 years old. After 15-20 rounds through it on the bench I admit, I can feel it.. (I'm about 150#) doesn't give me the flinches or anything but my shoulder does start getting a bit tender.

Skip to the 338WM- I feel I can get this rifle for a decent price..around 4-450. I would like to work up a load for it and shoot it a bit but never having shot anything of this size before, I wonder if buying it would be a waste of $ die to recoil and not shooting it much.

For those that shoot 338s regularly, how do you feel the recoil is compared to ..idk a 30-06 slinging 180s?

I'd hate to maybe have an unexpected brown bear hunt fall into my lap and not have the rifle

I hated the one I had, and that's the only reason I haven't bought the pre-64 338 in the classifieds. On the other hand, I love shooting 300 Win's.

Each person/gun is different. See if they'll let you take it to the range for a test drive if you buy a box of ammo from the store.

In my experience it recoils a lot more than a .30-06 throwing 180�s in same weight rifles, particularly if you go up to 225 or 250 grain bullets. I�ve shot Model 700 BDL�s in .30-06 for close to 40 years, that was my mainstay rifle for decades. For a while there a 180 grain Nosler Partition at 2750 fps was my go to load for everything big and small. It was fine to shoot. 50 rounds in a day's shooting session was pretty normal. It wasn't like shooting a .22 all day, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't painful or overly tiring.

Got a Model 700 BDL in .338 Win Mag so comparing apples to apples, and it flat out kicked. Not an insurmountable amount, but I did not find it pleasant or easy to shoot from the bench or from standard field positions. 15 to 20 rounds was more than enough practice. I was 5� 11� and around 175-180 for comparison. Lots of folks do shoot them well, depends on their physique, rifle weight, stock fit and all those other mitigating factors. And lots of folks will say, �hell, I shoot mine in shirtsleeves 500 rounds per day�, but they�re not you. You seem to like to shoot a lot, I do too, and based on your description of shooting the .30-06 I think you will find a .338 too much for real volume practice.

Besides, if you ask Phil Shoemaker I believe he would tell you your .30-06 is just fine for bears in case one happens to find its way into the garden.

Love mine. It's my go to rifle for African plains game. I've shot everything from Jackel to Eland with mine. I shoot handloads pushing a 225 Gr. Nosler Partition and it plain just hammers game. Recoil is a step up from a 30/06, but it certainly is less than my 375 H&H. Mine is a Rem. 700 BDL stainless/synthetic. It's on the light side for a .338 Win. Another nice thing about my gun is it shoots 225 gr. Hornady Interlocks to the same POI as the Noslers with the same powder charge.

My 338 weighs 8.5lbs and fits me well. I run 200gr bullets over 65gr of RL15 and recoil is not horrible. With a towel or sissy pad on my shoulder, it is no beast from the bench. I also worked up loads and sighted in my fathers M77 .338WM with 210's at 2,900fps. His is not bad either, especially after I had a Limbsaver installed. We have no need to run the heavier bullets and look at the 338WM as somewhat of an overgrown 30-06, making similar speeds with about 40-50gr more bullet.

Yep! My Ruger definitely needed a new pad, but that R15 recipe works and IME kicks much less than the 4350 loads I was using previous (65gr. vs 72gr). Don't know how fast mine's going, but it definitely gets a critters attention more with 200/210gr Noslers than my 30-06 with 165gr bullets. While it does recoil, I don't think it's as bad as 3" 12ga turkey or waterfowl loads. YMMV...

This may be a Mr. Obvious epiphany, but I think people have a certain recoil threshold, be it ft lbs of recoil energy, recoil velocity or both, with each person having a different limit. Up to that threshold, recoil is �not bad�, then suddenly you cross that threshold and it �kicks like hell�. For some, an 8 pound .375 is still below the threshold, for others a .30-06 might be over it. For me that 7 3/4 pound Model 700 .338 crossed the threshold. A 9 pound .375 H&H was still below it albeit coming close.

Based on shooting large calibers in heavy rifles (.458 WM, .375 H&H) vs. smaller, faster calibers in lighter rifles (think .300 WM or .338 WM) I tend to think it is more recoil velocity related. The big caliber, heavy rifles certainly rocked me � that �slow push� everybody talks about � but did not unduly punish individual body parts. The lighter rifles hit me with a solid jab in the shoulder that just plain hurt.

I�d never dissuade anyone from getting another rifle, but if you get the Ruger you might want to invest in a really good recoil pad. The recycled tank treads they put on their butt stocks are not known for recoil reduction.

I have a 338WM in a Vanguard Sum-Moa (one of the old models) and love it. Granted, the Vanguard is a little heavy but I also download mine for the time being. If you reload, you can safely start at 60% max load of H4895 (per Hodgdon) and work your way up until you're satisfied with muzzle velocity and/or recoil.

contrary to what some may think, you don't need to push every bullet to the brink of light speed to kill safely/humanely. Just my humble opinion of course...

Two identical rifles one in .300 wm one in .338 wm I would choose the .338 everyday.
More of a push than a snap.
I know this for a fact.

If the ought-six "almost" gives you issues, the 338 Win Mag most likely will. Of course, it's all relative to weight of the rifle, weight of the bullet, how hot it's loaded, etc. To put it in perspective, an 8 lb. 30-06 slinging a 180 gr. bullet generates about 20 ft. lbs. of recoil energy. An 8 1/2 lb. 338 Win Mag slinging a 225 gr. bullet can generate up to 35 ft. lbs of recoil energy. For many people, that's approaching the upper limit of tolerance. Of course, you can always install a muzzle brake. I have one that came with a Savage that I can turn on or off as desired, which sure helps the shoulder at the range.

35 ft/lbs huh? I never bothers to look up how much it generated... I really wish I knew someone close by that has a 338wm so I could give it a test run. Maybe what cfva recommended is worth a shot. The store might let me do that.

My thinking is this. Even if it gives me hell on the bench, I'm thinking that in a hunting situation, off hand, standing, sitting, whatever the situation calls for I don't think it will be nearly as bad. Just speaking from experience with my 06 here. I know that in actual field positions (which is how I do 95%big my practice) rifles don't seem to hurt nearly as bad as when shot hunkered over a bench. So with a good pad (not a muzzle brake fan) and a padded shirt/towel or something I would only have to put up with it off the bench for initial load development. After load development it wouldn't be shot off the bench again unless checking zero or switching loads.

If I can score it for the right deal, I think it would be worth a shot.

I posted a similar question not long ago and got some very useful opinions.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...0/Re_Recoil_300Win_vs_338Win#Post7217790

You're right, of course, about perceived recoil when hunting versus the bench. I have some very stout recoiling guns that can punish you at the bench. When hunting, I'm seldom aware of their recoil because I'm so focused on the shot. This can get you in trouble, too, occasionally. I was once so focused on making the shot on a big bear, which was about to exit the scene, that I held a .338 a little too loosely, and the hinge of a stupid flip-up scope cover bit me. I don't know who bled more -- me or the bear (which fell to the shot)... Anyway, it was a classic brain fart moment. I've since relegated all flip-up scope covers straight to hell, and take a bit more care with my stock-to-shoulder mount with big kickers.

My iPhone is substituting in some goofy chit...I apologize if it's tough to read lol.

I appreciate all if the input thus far...Im going to see if I can't weasel my way into that rifle...

You can always load it down, and go from there. 160 grainers can howl from that tube. 180's can be loaded down close to 30-06 velocities.

R.

Well, you don't have to run the thing full bore either, you know? A nice rifle like a Ruger can be restocked into a nice McMillan with some cast to it and at 8.5-8.75 lbs all up could be a nice hunting rifle. You could start with some 210s and hunt everything you'll ever want with that or throttle back some heavies so long as it's still accurate and I bet you'd be fine.

Good luck!

Many good comments and opinions in this thread.
My personal findings are:

First time I shot a centerfire hunting rifle was my friend's Ruger M77 tang-safety .30-06. OUCH! Must've been the factory stock.
Same day, a sporterized .30-06 Springfield with a metal buttplate. Hmmm. Not too bad!
Same day, my brand new 1989 Remington 700 BDL-AS 7mm Rem.Mag. WOW! I LIKE IT! The recoil was exactly what I wanted! It felt GOOD, no, GREAT!

Later I tried my other friend's same RUGER M77 in .338 Win.Mag. OUCH! It wasn't the recoil...as THAT actually UNDERwhelmed me. Now I knew it was the wood stock on those M77 tang-safety models.
Followed that with a 3" Magnum Slug by Winchester in my Beretta 1201FPG3 M&P semi-auto shotgun. YEAH! Now THERE'S some RECOIL~! Much more than the .338 WM.

Always wanting a .375 H&H, but never getting one, I traded off the Remington 700 BDL-DM .338 that I'd bought and was UNDERwhelmed with...for a Remington 700 BDL .375 ULTRA MAG.
HEY! This was like the Beretta shotgun with the slug...BAM!
Yes, Sir! I found my .375 with what I'm sure is a PAIN at BOTH ends! This rifle will let you know you fired a hard-kicking, fast-moving projectile.
I'd venture to say I'm one who actually ENJOYS recoil.

The .338 WM vs. the 7mm Rem.Mag. really puzzled me, as I didn't seem to notice a big difference.
There's a HUGE difference between those two and the .375 RUM, however.
ALL THAT SAID...the .338 Win.Mag. is one of the finest cartridges ever devised for hunting. I just don't like the idiot that introduced it to me. We're no longer friends, and that's pretty much why I gave it up, besides its UNDERwhelming recoil factor ( to me ).

I really should try the .375 H&H someday...I think I'm missing something of a legend there.

Good shopping & shooting!

That outfit may just be the PERFECT Alaska rig......impervious to weather and sufficiently powerful for the big bears.

That said, the .338 WM's recoil will get your attention, especially with the heavier 250-gr bullets loaded hot. In actual hunting conditions, I doubt you'll notice the recoil, but you can wear a PAST recoil shield under your jacket to mitigate the kick. In addition, the 210 Nosler may be the most useful bullet for the .338, and it kicks noticeably less than the 250 and works as well IME. Many have spoken favorably about the Barnes 180, but I can't say, as I've never gotten around to trying them.

I would jump on that rifle to fill out your battery for North American hunting.

I recently acquired a Winchester Model 70 classic sporter in 338 win mag. Having never shot one I was a little concerned with recoil but it was to good of a deal to pass up. I have shot a lot of 300's however my main hunting rifle is a Winchester Model 70 30-06. With that being said I thought that the 338 had no more noticeable recoil than my 30-06. I might also add that the 338 has the thin, red recoil pad supplied by Winchester. Needless to say I was pleasantly surprised and found it to be a very shoot-able rifle.

I agree about getting the rifle.
Stock selection may be a consideration.
Light and fast(er) in a .338 WM may be a great solution to mitigating the recoil, if you're sensitive to that sort of thing.
My 'ex-buddy' used the 210-Nosler ( soft 's' in pronunciation, BTW ).
( This is the guy that blew up a RUGER Redhawk .44 and almost blew up a 1911 with his handloads...I NEVER shot his handloads!
His technique of reloading to save powder is well known to be the reason many guns and cannons have blown up...the primer shoots its spark over the top of the underloaded/low-powder charge and gives a 'shaped-charge' effect to your hand-held firearm.
OOPS.
Dangerous idea. Mike Venturino wrote a couple of articles about this, including smokeless poweder in a black powder rifle...if you didn't tamp the load down...your barrel ended up looking like a flower. )

I would look for the BIGGEST bullet and slowest powder, or whatever gave a nice, long, pushing BOOM!
Or, a .375 RUM. For a punishingly satisfying experience!

I am fairly immune to recoil but I would easily say the least enjoyable combo I have ever fired in a high powered rifle was a Tikka T3 Lite in 338WM with Federal High Energy 250 gr Partitions. There was zero manageability after the shot , especially if you weren't standing. It just plain pounded the snot out of you. On the flip side my Ruger M77 Stainless 338 bedded in a McMillan with reg fill was quite enjoyable to shoot and shot real well. I wouldn't say that there was a whole heck of a lot of difference between it and my 375 Ruger also bedded in a Mcmillan, they were very similar. Good stocks make a big difference!

Good post Tom.

.338 recoil is about as pleasant as medium recoil can be. No need to fear it. Then again I've only shot Rem's, a Browning, and 200's-225's. Dunno about no Rugers.

Pends on the stock and you. I have a 06 that hurts but sure is purdy.

Ok, I've read thru some of your posts and think you need a 9.3x62mm. I recently bought one and love it. I've been a long time fan of the 338 win mag and hate the 300 winny (which kicks harder IMHO)....If you reload, the 9.3x62mm will give you what you are looking for...Trust me...However, that wasn't the question so I'll revert back to the 338 win mag is one of my favorites and mine (as well as all the others I've owned) happens to be a Ruger M77 mkII. I know where one is at a local gunshop myself, but I'm not going to pay the $650.00 he wants for it!!!!! The best piece of advice I can give you if you buy that Ruger IS GET a limbsaver or pachmeyer decelerator for it right away!!!!! It will make all the difference in the world. Bed it and rock on, I bet it will be a shooter...

Main thing is the stock has to fit. I have a 7.5 lb Tikka T3 lite .338 win mag and a 8.25 lb Browning Abolt .338 win mag. I probably shoot close to 250 rounds a year from them and they don't bother me at all. When I go hunting, it is with one of these rifles. Both will shoot less than 2" groups from a bench at 200 yds. I did put a Pachmeyer Decelerator pad on the Abolt and a limbsaver on the Tikka.

As mentioned above, Barnes 160 gr TTX and 64 gr W748, and 185 TX with 61 gr W748 reasonable accuracy and tolerable recoil. The 160 around 3000fps and the 185 around 2850. With the Gentry brake installed the 160 kicks like a 25-06. With factory WW200gr CT about like a 270. This is in a 7 1/2# rifle. So, think 7RM recoil with an unbraked rifle. I don't care to shoot much past 300 yards, hunt before the shot, so somewhat lesser BC doesn't matter. Noted with 60gr of powder lots of soot with the 185s, none with the 61 gr load. So, the complaints of W748 being dirty depends on the load. Noted that 748 didn't meter as well with 60+ grains of power as it does with less than 40 grains. Granule density is all I can figure is the cause. Had to weigh every charge, anal about that. Hey, Coni Brooks seems to use the 185s on everything. Just look at current and past Barnes Manuals. Not conventional wisdom, but�.

Estacado

I have used a 338 to take roughly 30 head of african plains game from hippo, croc and eland to warthogs impala etc. The first safari I shot 250 gr Nosler partition, the next 250gr A frames, the last 225 TSX. No discernible difference in performance...game went down and stayed down if I did my part. I also have used it on Elk and mule deer. I have settled on the 225 TSX as my goto load when I need or feel I need a 338 which brings us to the recoil question. I also use a 300winmag and have settled on 180 TSX as my load of choice. There is no way that my experience echos those who claim snap over shove. When on the bench I use a Past recoil sheild (shotgun model)with both rifles..in the field I don't notice any recoil (not so with my 416 Rig), The 338 kicks more than the 300, the 300 more than the 280, the 280 more than the 243. Everything kicks more when I haven't been to the range in some time. The 338 is a hammer..use whatever you need to control recoil on the bench...you will love the results in the field. However, in all candor, I find myslef reaching for my 300 more and more often. There isn't much I'm going to hunt that a 180gr .308 TSX launched at 3025fps won't handle.

Mine shoots the 210 and 250 gr. Partitions better than anything -- both sub-MOA. It shoots 225 gr. TTSX right at an inch. It does not like Accubonds. Of course, YMMV.

IMHO, the .338 is the one rifle in my battery where stock design is critical to shooting it comfortably. Throw in a GOOD recoil pad and you're golden.
I have 2 338's- one is a pre 64 '06, rebarreled to 338 with a custom stock on it. I've taken many elk and African game with it and it is not unpleasant to shoot. I've since moved to a Win. 70 Stainless classic with synthetic stock which is slightly uncomfortable to shoot at the bench for long stretches but doesn't really bother me when shooting at game.
Both have good recoil pads, but the crappy Winchester synthetic stock just sucks for recoil management. It will be getting a McMillan this month and I'm quite sure it will be more managable at the bench, judging by the other McMillans I've shot on my brother's identical rifle in 300 WM and others I've had a chance to shoot.

If you want one and need to shoot long stretches at the bench for load work-up, practice, or just plain fun, get a Past recoil pad and wear it. They really do make a big difference.

Bob

I have two .338s--a custom, built on a Springfield '03 action with a Pacific Research synthetic stock, and a Ruger No. 1-H with the factory stock. The Springfield weighs a shade under 8 lbs with scope and sling, while the Ruger weighs a little over 9 lbs. Both have 3/4-inch Decelerator pads.

I can shoot the Springfield from the bench comfortably for quite a few rounds, but if I need to shoot more than a few with the Ruger, I have to break out the PAST pad. I don't know how old you are but, as I approach my 70th birthday, I find that I really don't like to shoot either of them as much as I do my lighter recoiling rifles. I will probably try to sell both of my .338s sometime later in the winter or early spring.

Many years ago, I had a thing for the .338. I suppose that I read too much Hagel and Keith. I was never without one. They do recoil more than an '06, but they are doable, especially with lighter bullets. I used a lot of 200 and 210 grain bullets. My most accurate loads, however were accomplished with 250 grain bullets.

I tried a variety of Blaser, Sako, and Winchester bolt guns and had several Browning BARs. Those were the most pleasant to shoot and were just about as accurate with good load tinkering.

After several years of this, I finally realized that I had never drawn blood with any of them. Except for the Blaser, they were all just too heavy to roam the foothills with. I finally wised up and went out of the .338WM business.

I must confess that my craziness did not exactly go away overnight. It took three .338-06 rifles to wind down to the great .30-06. I also admit that I am looking for a doner to make another .338-06. I do not need it, I just want it. Jack

As ADNA said, stock fit is critical. Anything that doesn't fit can hurt. A well fitted stock that doesn't bash your cheek, is made so recoil goes straight back to your shoulder and has an adequate LOP with a good pad will do a lot to reduce felt recoil.

Assuming that the two rifles are of equal weight, a .338 WM firing a 225 grain bullet will generate more recoil energy than a .30/06 firing a 180 grain bullet.

The trajectory of the .338 WM loaded with 225 grain bullets is comparable to a .30/06 firing 180 grain loads.

I have two .338's. One is a full custom built on a pre '64 M70 action with a Swarovski Z6i. It weighs about 9lbs loaded and recoil is not bothersome at all.
The second is a Blaser R93, also with a Z6i that weighs about a pound less. The Blaser has less perceived recoil than the M70. Go figure.

The .338 WM is a great cartridge and is excellent for PG. My standard load is Federal factory 225 grain TSX's, which shoot less than an inch in both rifles. For leopard, I use a 225 grain partition.

Of late, I have begun to wonder whether all the sturm and drang of more potent cartridges is worth the bother. In my personal experience, given a well constructed bullet and PRECISE SHOT PLACEMENT, a .30/06 will kill them just dead as anything else. Except for very specialized use, a .30/06 and a .375 are really the only two rifles a hunter "needs". Another good pairing for those who have Africa in their plans and can shoot them accurately is the .338 WM and the .416 Rigby.

This.

Just shot 40 rounds off the bench with my .300 Win and having done the same many times with a .338 Win I find the opposite to be true. The .338 at the same weight IME kicks harder.

A lot of that is in how you load for those cartridges. I've had identical rifles and the 300 kicked harder...However, I ran fast 200's (2,900 fps) in the 300 and slow (2,600 fps) 250's in the 338 and the 338 was less punishing on the shoulder.

Yeah,i can see that. I don't think anything about shooting my 10 ga loads. 750 grains of shot at 1550 in a 9 lb gun. More of a shove.

I shoot a 338 Winchester myself, its a Sako 75 SS that I had for some 17 years now. The trick to shooting a 338 or any cartridge is don't shoot till it becomes uncomfortable. It might be only two shots or ten. Then stop for the day. In time you will master the rifle cartridge and be able to shoot one well. It dose you no good if you can't put the bullet were it needs to go. Buy the rifle if you must. Shoot small amounts of ammo at a time. I never shoot more than 10 shots at a time on range day, but I shoot more often. its better to shoot less per range day but have more range days then to say shoot 40 or 60 rounds one day and not shoot for a few months in-between.

Ky221,

I certainly can't answer for everyone,as there are too many variables,but my wife has used one exclusively since the early '90's running 225 grn. bullets. She doesn't enjoy shooting from the bench, and only does so to verify zero. But, she loves it as her "go to" rifle for all of our hunting. She doesn't shoot it much in practice, but uses other rifles for that. However, her one shot kills ranging from around 30 to 400 yrd. now total around 8 or 9 in a row. I guess you can say ,"it works for her"! memtb

You make a great point about practicing with other rifles. I do the same and generally do my practicing with my 308 and 30-06's....You don't have to shoot something punishing like the big magnums to get your practice in (something many don't get). I check my zero and my poi to make sure they are right where they are susposed to be and the 338 gets shot very minimally. However, I have shot 40 rounds in practice with it along with my 300 wsm and 30-06 in one sitting. The 338 win mag is managable but it doesn't take too long before the recoil starts taking effect. My threshold is around 40 rounds downrange with mine (I know I'm a puzzy) . I shoot a plain ol Ruger m77 MKII that I bedded, did some trigger work and threw a pachmeyer decelerator on and she shoots great:

3 shot group with my "go to" elk load: 250gr. sierra gameking bullet:


Here's what I mean by reaching the threshold. I shoot left handed and pulled the last shot. Notice how I didn't go for a 5 shot group :



Shooting offhand or at game, however, you barely notice any difference between it and a good ol '06......

I took an old nasty Ruger MK II to Africa,hunted for two weeks with it.Kilt stuff wearing a t-shirt,love the round!!
A 225 grain Nosler Partition is the best kill pill for it.....

The 225 partition is an excellent bullet (probably the best for the 338 win mag). I just choose the 250 sierra gameking because it is cheaper, my rifle loves them and I know it works everytime. It kills elk dead!!

Recoil is an individually experienced thing and your experience may vary, but I shoot a 338wm and while it does kick more than my 3006 I don't find it unpleasant. I was asking around before I built mine a few years ago and finally borrowed one to see for myself - after all the build up on the recoil the actual recoil was an anticlimax.

I pretty much shoot 250's for consistancy in POI. Lots to like: accurate, good penetration, doesn't bloodshot, and good range.

Adding a good muzzle brake will tame the rifle significantly if your first outing leaves you too sore.