I had a ring and base set done by Birdsongs

They look great but as I was installing them last night I had my driver slip two times and scratched the rear base all the way to the metal.

So this made me question if getting an entire rifle done in black T would be a good idea.

I have no experience with ceracoat and just this small experience with black T


Thoughts?

I would also be interested to hear from someone with first hand experience with both...

Yeah.....my first thoughts on the black T was not good

It shouldn't scratch to bare metal as easy as it did

I thought the Black T like bonded with the metal or some science thing like that.... maybe a call to them is in order. I agree scratching it off with a screwdriver slip is cause to worry.

Ceracoat is indeed much tougher than Black T. However if Black T scratches-it will not rust underneath

It scratched through to bright shinning bare steel

I have had rifles done in both. I go with cerakote now. Take what you want from that. Nothing against Black T, Cerakote just seems bulletproof to me.

My .35 Whelen is SS covered in black Teflon. The only problem I've seen is when using Wipeout bore cleaner the teflon loosened up on the end of the barrel. Once dry it is back solid and hardened back up and adheres to the steel.

Have only recently had anything cerakoted, 870 Wingmaster, so don't have enough use on it to know yet.

Mike

baked on cerekote is bonded with the metal......it will eventually wear off in areas such as the bolt raceways and such.....our buisiness partner has had a couple powder coating businesses and has told people to make damn sure on what color of cerekote they want cause if your not happy with the color the best way to get a a differnt color once applied is to go buy a new gun and try again cause its near impossible to get it off the gun once applied....

I don't know enough about either to comment. I will say that I have had three rifles, and three sets of rings and bases done with Robar and everyone of them has far exceeded my expectations.

My oldest is pushing 20 years now, and is the loaner rifle my clients use in RSA. It has a few scratches and dings in the finish.

However, compared to the same leupold scope that has been on there all this time, the finish is better on the gun then the scope. My matte finish scope is silver around every edge and the caps now.

When it comes time to do another rifle for me, it will be Robar again.

I have rifles that were cerakoted 8-10 years ago including stocks and they don't have a scratch,nick or dent anywhere on them,IT'S WONDERFUL STUFF.

Gimme Black T every time.

Mine failed......so

My experience with Cerakote is not the same as others. The coating is gouged where hulls have bounced off of the receiver from extraction on the receiver. While I think it's OK stuff, it's still just a coating that can come off.

My cerakoted rifle does have some scratches on it. I was a bit surprised to see them. I will try Black T next time, just to see. The rifle was already coated when I bought it, so I have no way of knowing who did it.....

Tom

I've got both finishes. The Teflon is slick and parts require little extra lube. Cerakote has no lubricity but has better scratch resistance than most other coatings. I'd send your scope base back for a respray and move on. Teflon is good stuff.

Yes. But in fairness, it failed the "screw driver test". Kind of like dropping your rifle on rocks. What's tougher, the rocks or the finish.

In fairness, I have neither on any rifle but based on the actions i have felt with ceracote felt awfully gritty to me which is the main reason I consider black ice to be a better option.

Face it, both are coming off in conditions you posted above.

I have sprayed a lot of cerakote, (only the bake on) and I have owned a few guns Black T'd and a few guns coated with cerakote by others. I agree with you on the lubricity of the Black T, but not on it being less scratch resistant. All coating scratch off if you try hard enough, but give me blackT every time.

I wonder how many guns have been coated with norrel's and pawned off as back T given some of the responses. I know of a smith in VA that was doing exactly that. It was cheap for him to bake on some norrels and charge his customers the full price of BlackT and it also gave him a lot more time to complete rifles because of the built in excuse "parts are at the coaters."

I like Black T a lot, though I've only use it on handguns thus far. It has held up very well.

IMO, the best is Roguard by Robar. Extremely scratch and rust resistant. If you combine Roguard with Robar's NP3 on the bolt and internals, you have an excellent self lubricating wear and rust resistant package with a very slick action. It is a bit pricey compared to the others, but you get what you pay for.

Teflon is just too soft and is quite susceptible to wear and scratching.

I have found the actions on Cerakote finished bolt rifles to be too sticky for my taste.

I like Black-T because it can be applied to many small parts, like small pins and springs in trigger groups, without affecting the function at all. Like others have already said, Black-T actually penetrates the metal and is slick as snot. More guns (actually way way more) have been coated by Birdsong than all the others combined.

I've only had a Williams Oberndorf type floorplate done in NP3 so I can't really speak to it's durability, but I was very pleased with the way it turned out as far as appearance. I had it done to closely match the SS finish on my 700 SS BDL in 280 Ackley.

Black-T on barreled action and scope mounts (rings and bases).



Robar NP3..

Scratching it with a screwdriver is hardly failing IMO. Is there a coating out there that's as slick and thin as Black T that wouldn't scratch under those conditions?

Can't speak for other teflon coatings, but I have some years of experience with black t. I have never had an issue with foaming cleaners making it loose. Ever.

The rigs we have it on have been used a lot and there are some surface scratches, particularly on the bolt knobs. It is a very tough finish, but granite rock will scratch it. As has been noted, a screwdriver would also put a hurt on it.

For me the only down side with Birdsong is the turn time. Have talked to the guys at Black Ice a few times and am leaning that direction on next one. My expectations are that when that rig hits granite, it is going to get scratched though.

I've had several done in Cerakote, only 1 in Teflon (Black Ice). I like both of them but both will scratch/wear. Teflon seems slicker and thinner and all the little stuff can get coated. Cerakote may be a bit tougher as it's thicker but I can't say for sure...it does seem to make the bolt a bit rougher in the action. Lot's of color choices in the Cerakote.

Either is a good option and I think how well the person preps/applies it can make a big difference. Had cerakote in the past from one gunsmith that just didn't perform as well as the rest that has been applied by Karl or Eddie.