Just ran into a T/C carbine length (21�) tapered barrel in LNIB condition. I like thumpers and looking at the load data, it appears this round approaches 35-Remington ballistics, with a 158 gr. JHP. Wiki states no one manufactures the ammo any longer due to pistol �top straps� separating. Should be a snap to reload!

Anyone with real world experience using the 357 Max in a rifle configuration please chime in.

Thx,


DMc

I've only had revolver experience with it in a Dan Wesson. My brother had a Ruger #3 in 357 Mag that he reamed out to Max. You are right, it did duplicate 35 Rem ballistics.
Sorry, don't have his load data and he has passed on.

Blacktailer, my sincerest condolences regarding your brother.


DMc

I have a Savage 24V combo gun in .357 Max/20ga. I have primarily shot the old Hornady 180gr SSP and the XTP 180gr in front of Winchester 680. That powder is defunct so will likely go to AA 1680 after I run out of 680. Velocity is in the 2000 fps range. The couple deer I have shot with it did not like it....

I got real world experience.
I had a tc contender super 14 pistol one time, killed lots of deer with it and right now I have a 18" MGM bbl for my son in .357 max.
He's killed a few with it and so has a friend.
What do you want to know about it?

Tom,
With no personal real-world experience regarding this caliber, a certain amount of hype is always present in the media you pour over. Is it a thumper as claimed? Pet loads? Brass sources? Are you running 158 Gr, or 180's? Is it a snot extractor or mild-mannered in a 5lb. rifle? Is it a favorite field gun or a backup? Accuracy?

DMc

For my son who is 10 I have been loading 158 grain WW hp's in front of 20.5 grains of lil gun for a velocity around 2100-2200 if I recall correctly.
Yes it is the thumper they say it is, so far this rifle (which weighs around 5lbs) has accounted for 5 one shot kills on whitetails and every one except one dropped in their tracks and the one that didn't went 40 yds and died.
As far as recoil it isn't bad until you start pushing the 180's real hard and then it gets noticed also I have some 215's for it but haven't loaded them up yet.
The rifle is a 14" twist and gets around 1 inch groups almost all the time with whatever loads I'm running but just a few weeks ago I was shooting it and at 100 it was tearing 1 hole groups......a fluke? I don't know...maybe I was ON that day but it impressed me.
I got my brass from. Local guy, he had a 100 for something like $15 so I snagged them.
It is remington brass.
I preferr the .357 max over the .44 mag as I think it kills deer faster and I have killed deer with the .44 mag too.
The reason I chose this cartridge for my son was because I could start him on the .38's then to the .357 mags on to the .357 max all in one barrel.
I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer at 150 yds with my current setup too.

Great info Tom


Thank you


DMc

Your welcome

I shot a friend's H&R Handi that was reamed from .357mag to max. It is super easy to reload for, and hit shot great.

I was going to get a .357 mag and rent the reamer, but when I tried to find brass it was unavailable at any reasonable price.

I went with a Handi in 44mag and am happy with that.

FWIW, the Max that I shot was damn close to a 1" at 100 yards rifle while my 44 mag is a 2" rifle with a nicer scope than the Max had.

I got lucky with the barrel and snagged 30 live rounds & 20 brass. 50 should last. (All Rem headstamp)


DMc

Occasionally, you will find a source for 357 Max brass. I picked up a couple hundred in this way and likely won't need any additional. Also found some factory ammo in the same way. I'll shoot the Hornady 180 SSP's in mine. Speaking of mine, it's a CVA Apex with a 222 Rem barrel that was re-worked to the 357 Max and cut to 21". The weight of the rifle helps and I don't notice much recoil, but am still shooting factory ammo.

Most of the loaded ammo I have ever found for the max was usually a mom and pop hardware store.
Also check gunshows.
The nice thing about the max is it can be reloaded using standard .38 special dies.....of course you have to adjust accordingly.

I got a .357 Max barrel for one of my kids T/C carbine 20 years ago. 18 inch barrel from Fox Ridge Outfitters, which was T/C's custom shop back in the day.

As mentioned, you can approach .35 Rem ballistics. I didn't even try any 158 grain bullets. My first handloads were with the 180 grain Hornady XTP and the Speer 180 grain flat point. Accuracy with the Speer was mediocre. I wound up with a near max load of IMR 4227 under the XTP, (don't remember the charge) getting right at 2100 fps and good accuracy, 1.5" groups with a 2x Leupold scope.

Also, as mentioned I use 38/357 dies. But when seating bullets the bullet seating die was backed out til it was just about to come apart. So I searched and bought a Redding custom seat die, part number 92284. Much more better...

Also tried H110, got more velocity but not near as good accuracy.

The XTP at 2100 killed deer quickly but rarely exited the animal. I experimented a bit and settled on a load of 18.9 grains of IMR4227 under this bullet. This gives 1670 fps, 1" groups are possible, and on deer the bullet does not expand quite so violently and holds together better. We get exit holes sometimes and they still die real quick.

Also, most info in the manuals for this cartridge claim that a firm roll crimp is absolutely mandatory for this cartridge. I found I get better accuracy without any crimp at all. Go figure!

The 180 Nosler Partition shot to the same point of impact as the XTP with the same powder charge, and was THE bullet for this cartridge. Of course, as soon as I discovered this, Nosler quit making them! My kids are grown now and this barrel sits unused in the safe. But I've got a grandson that I'm hoping will one day pop a few bambies with the thing.

Have you ever tried cast bullets at those velocities?


DMc

No sir, just the three bullets in my post. I would think that a hard cast would work, though. Try it!

When I shot my DW in IHMSA I used 180gr gas checked cast bullets. Got the moulds from RCBS. Out of an 8 inch revolver they were traveling at about 1450fps using 4227. They were as accurate as any factory bullet I tried.
Sure wouldn't mind having a carbine barrel for my Contender in 357 Super Mag (the correct designation).
BTW the reason the loading mauals tell you to crimp heavily is because this cartridge was originally chambered in revolvers and the bullets in the cylinder would back out under recoil which is not a problem in a single shot.

This is a paper patch adventure waiting to happen.

357 Maximum (.357 Super Mag) brass is still listed by Jamison International Brass and Remington at www.grafs.com you can login to be advised when it is available. This brass is a seasonal production item, so grab it when you can.

I purchased one of the earliest Ruger Blackhawk revolvers chambered for the .357 Maximum for use in IHMSA Silhouette matches. With a 10" barrel and target sights it was (is) one of the most accurate revolvers I ever shot, bringing home many trophies.



I still have a supply of the original Federal brass from the contract order from Elgin gates and IHMSA in 1980, the brass is marked with the ram target logo.



Here the load page from the Reloading Guide for Handgun Accuracy by G. Riley, J. Shaver, B. Stringfellow, 1982. Note the designation is still .357 Super Mag, which IIRC Remington refused to use due to copyright issues with S&W which owned the Magnum appellation, hence the later Maximum designation when it was put into commercial production:



As other posters have noted AAC 1680 will be the powder of choice. I never found anything better than W-680 with jacketed bullets. I would shoot 10 shot cloverleafs of .750" at 50 yards using the Sierra bullets using Win-680. There are numerous loads for the .357 Maximum (Super Mag) at www.loaddata.com and AAC 1680, along with cast bullet loads. I also found that Win-296/H-110 did not work in the Maximum.

The claim that the Maximum cut through the top strap of the Ruger was poppycock. Flame erosion of the top strap stopped after about 50 shots and never amounted to much, but gun writers being what they are had to hype it out of proportion. Eventually Ruger withdrew their offering. Bill Ruger refused to lengthen the cylinder another 1/8" as Elgin Gates recommended, which would have solved the problem.

This is a fine cartridge that filled a particular niche in a specialized game, it is quite suitable for mid-range hunting of up to deer sized animals, but will probably never see a return of popularity. Shame really, but it is interesting.

Excellent contribution here WranglerJohn.


Thx
DMc

I used a .357 Max on my Encore frame for deer hunting in Iowa when I lived there. It was a great option to avoid using a shotgun and have great accuracy and cheap practice. I used very few jacketed bullets in mine, as I love to cast boolits and picked up a couple of ideal molds - a Lyman 358627 215 gr. checked and lubed, and Ranch Dog's 359-190-RF Both hammered deer with authority and I could run them at 1600-1800 fps, depending on the load, from a 15" barrel w/brake. I used RL7, 4227, and 1680 for powders. I've still got the Ranch Dog mold, sold the Lyman. If you get the barrel and want to try some cast boolits, send me a PM and I can hook you up. 100 yd MOA groups were the norm from a bench, scoped, of course.

Sel,

The reason I inquired about cast bullets was "shortleade" spoke of penetration issues with jacketed bullets. Using the velocities he mentioned it seemed to me he could sub a hard cast checked bullet without encountering leading.

The WikiLeaks summation regarding the demise of the 357 Max fingered hot-loaded 125 gr and lighter bullets at 2300-2400fps were the real culprits for flame cutting pistol top straps.

While most here on the Fire would be primarily interested in 158gr and heavier bullets for deer sized game, my infatuation is for off-season plinking of 15+lb snapping turtles that happen to be over-populating a little 6 acre trophy bass lake.

My experience with this goes back well over 40 years, when I stuffed some 158gr 357 bullets into .358 Winchester brass and declared war on the turtle population. Holy Crap. Until you've witnessed the devastation, (which resembles little hand-grenades), simply has to be seen to be believed. Sure a .22 short would do the job but this is like shooting canon's at un-opened coke cans. Perverse? Maybe, but equates to prairie dog sniping where there ain't any prairie dogs.

Those flame-cutters in a rifle barrel ought to be purty dern fun!


DMc