Just purchased a bolt action .308 for hog and deer hunting in the South and Midwest. As far as scopes go I'm leaning towards a Leupold fixed 4X or their 1.25-4X with illuminated reticle. What do you think? Would something like a 3-9X be a better choice? Thanks.

I like 4x scopes. You don't need more to hit anything out to 400 yards and better. In fact, you don't need that much scope to do it.

Think of it this way� You could hit a gallon milk jug at 400 with a 4x or 6x. So a deer's shoulder or heart/lung kill zone would be easy to drill..

I agree. 1X per 100yd is ample. 1.5X is nice. 2.5X @ 400yd is marginal but doable in decent light.

You will not regret the Leupold FXII 4X. Weaver has 4X (K4) might want look at that.

Having both 1.5 x 4s and straight 4 powers... I am finding that I like the 1.5 x 4 better...

I usually have it setting at 2.5 or so.. and anything within 200 yds ( were 99% of all game are taken) it has always been more than enough magnification...

4x Nikon on my 308. Seems to work just fine.

Great....thanks! Glad to get some advice from guys that have actually done it!

I find 4X to be too much scope most of the time. I see no advantage to being stuck with a fixed power. A 1-4X or 2-7X gives some very useable low powers and enough magnification for some precision at longer ranges. A 3-9X is as big as I would go and would probably recommend a 2-7X as about perfect on a hunting rifle. I use 1-4X's on my AR's for fast close range shooting.

There was just one of these in the classifieds

I had a VX-II 1x4 on my 7600 and an M8 4x on my Sako. No issues. I say had as I sold the 7600 and changed to a 2x7 on the bolt. No real reason other than to try something different. I guess if push came to shove, I'd say I preferred the M8 for the sight picture and brightness, especially in lower light conditions, dreary days, and swamps. Not much difference in reality though.

I'd opt for something other than the 1-4x scopes to get a bigger objective. The 20/24 mm objectives are not bright enough to do a good job on deer in poor light at the end of legal shooting hours. The exception to that might be high end Euro scopes. A Zeiss/Swaro/S&B 1.1-4x24 MIGHT be bright enough. I know for a fact that my VX3 1.5-5 and my VX-II 1.1-4 are not bright enough to suit me and cannot begin to compare to my 1.5-6x42 Euros. Just a casual glance in low light makes the difference obvious.

I would for absolutely certain get a first focal plane reticle.

Miles,

Where do you draw the line in the last few minutes of legal, with regard to possible recovery problems; distance, cover?

Passed on a Buck this year in the last few minutes at around 150 in an open field. Too much chance of a run off and not being able to follow. Leupold 1.5-5 on 5x.

Something over twenty years ago, I picked up a pair of 4X Zeiss scopes that someone traded in as not enough scope. One of them went on a .308 and it is still there. I have been perfectly happy with it and I have witnesses to verify a bit over 500 yard kill with it. Agree, too far, and I will not do it again, but it does work. jack

I've spent my whole hunting career with fixed 4X's. I've had variables but seldom ever on hunting rifles. A fixed 4X gets the job done but with that said I'm switching to a 3-9X for this year. It will be nice to be able to crank up the power ring for a change.

You are on the right track with a Leupold 4x. I've come full circle back to mostly fixed power scopes. You will find a 4x perfectly fine on even long shots at big game. I'm also a big fan of the Leupold 6x36 as my eyes are no longer what they used to be.

The first high power metallic silhouette match ever held in the state of Missouri (August 1979) was won with a 30/06 on which was mounted a Leupold M8 4x28. I had no problem holding on the 500m rams nor on the 385m turkeys.

The only downside to a fixed 4x these days is that it is almost a specialty item and a nice 2-7x that is just a light and pretty much as reliable can be had for generally the same or less money and is much easier to find.

I don't see much of 4X scopes still being manufactured except by Leupold.

MM, I did the same thing,.hunted 4X for 30+ years bought a 3-9 Nikon and now I'm looking to go back to a 4X

The Weaver is really nice except for that funky front bell shape that really limits mounting range.

Battue,

This is one of the hardest questions anyone ever asked me about hunting.

A few years back, the gel layer at the back of my right eye was peeling. I think I passed on at least half a dozen deer I had set up on, all inside 200 and some inside 100, for the sole reason that I could not focus on the cover well enough to know pretty much exactly where the deer was so I had a good idea of where to start looking for blood if things went sideways. I have never lost a deer I put the first bullet into and rather than shoot, which I could see well enough to do with the cross hairs, I wound up not shooting one that year.

I hunt adjacent to willow swamps with chest high grass in them. You can literally stumble over a deer and still not see it. The next year I shot one in the last seconds of legal light almost 300 yards out in a cut hayfield. The scope made it easy, but by the time I unloaded, climbed down and walked out to her it was so dark I could not range the box stand I shot her from. I knew pretty exactly where I'd have to start looking for her blood, but I still gave up a little meat and high shouldered her so she did not run.

This year I shot one at about 60 yards in the last seconds. I was using a specific load and velocity I was testing and needed to put the bullet in just behind the shoulder and through the off side shoulder to get a close comparison to a couple other deer shot with other test loads. I was close enough to be comfortable that the deer would die quickly. The deer did not give me a blood trail! By the time I had crawled +- 50 feet with a good light looking for blood I was pissed at myself. I held up and waited for one of my partners to show up and then we got methodical in the aspen cutting and found the deer dead ~100 feet away.

I've made golf ball size holes all the way through through deer and got a very sparse blood trail for my trouble, and cursed my bad judgement for leaving me the prospect of a hard night in the swamp on my hands and knees.

Generally, my stands are in or on the edge of a willow swamp and I am shooting at deer in a generous shooting lane or on a field. I get pretty twitchy about shooting when the deer has less than 50 yards to make it into that kind of cover and mostly pass. If they are close enough to clip the brain stem (under 50) and they oblige with a perfect angle and stand stock still I kill them.

I will say that just at sunset when the last rays are very flat, I will pass on deer even with a high end Euro because I often just cannot see well enough. A few minutes later Bambi may catch hell though if he sticks around.

I think the answer to your question is really if I am dead certain I can either kill the deer and drop it in its tracks or I can walk directly to where the deer stood without trouble or if I have snow, the distance is what it is. In fifty odd years I have never killed a deer past 300. I have given it careful consideration, and I have rifles set up to do the job, but all the right things just have never all come together to get me to pull the trigger.

My Leupy 1.5-5x20 is on my 30-30 because it's not bright enough to give me dead certain kills at 100 yards when it get to 29 minutes after sunset and my target might be in deeper shadow on the edge of a cutting. I do not want to "handicap" a rifle I am happy with at from 100 to as much as I might need then. I have only just decided my eyes need help even on the 30-30 which is mostly just used when I have to chase down a wounded deer.

I know where a Swaro 1.1-4x24 is that looks to be much brighter that I can snag probably for $600. I am thinking of moving the Leupy and buying the Swaro.

Thanks, appreciate the excellent reply. We are pretty much on the same page when it comes to this question. Only difference being the 3x, 1.5-5 and fixed 6x keeps me honest when I may be tempted to get weak.

Unless the game is close, the last couple of minutes of legal shooting time is shaky ground. Things change rapidly during those last couple minutes and nothing about it is good.

Battue,

Agreed

I should add one thought.

I keep a Coast LED lenser P7 in my pocket. That thing puts out 200+ lumens and will light up a 4 foot diameter circle as bright as daylight when it's defocused. Focused, it will allow me to finish one out past 100 yards if need be. The LED color is almost perfect for spotting blood.

Knowing that I have as good a light as I might need short of the sun and long battery life does affect my decision to shoot or not at times. I would say it has more bearing on the decision to shoot or not than the caliber of the particular rifle, or the optics I have on it, that I have at the time. If I forgot the light back in the cabin, I almost never shoot at last light. I can shoot five deer/year and I would much rather come back the next morning and hope for another chance than shoot one and have to leave it over night.

Using a few lumens during the last couple minutes of shooting here in Pa puts you close to a spotlighting arrest. Depending on the accuracy of your watch, the GW's watch, his mood or the report he was given. "Why Officier, I swear it was at least an hour past legal shooting time."

I would not hesitate in using one for following a blood trail at night. Shooting and using one as an aid to do so during the last couple minutes? More shaky ground.

I run a Leupold FX-II 4X on my Kimber Classic .308 and I couldn�t be happier for this application. From a benchrest it may not be ideal, but in the real world it does everything you need on this rifle.

Phil

As an over 50 yo I too have the Leupold 6x36 on my 30-30. Works great. Very simple set up.

Same thing here in Oregon. Now back to the ops question. It sounds like he doesn't have a lot of experience. My suggestion is, go for the 3-9x40 and call it a day.

I should have made that more clear. The light is not to help shoot them. But without it I pass on legal shots because it makes finding a hit deer much easier.

I wouldn't like shooting one that wasn't dead yet if I found/got close enough to finish it off using the light, but in the right circumstance I'd consider it. Even finishing off a wounded deer after legal hours is illegal here and it could cost you a pretty hefty fine, your rifle and any vehicle you used in the process.

A few years back one of the guys I was hunting with shot a fawn in the knee at the end of shooting hours. He called for help and by the time got there it was flat out dark. I spent an hour and some tracking it, and was pretty sure it was a leg hit and it was moving slow just ahead of us. I cut that search off because the deer was still moving and would need some killing yet, there were two people on the ground and we were hands and knees in a willow swamp where when you stood up you could only see each other maybe 20-30 feet.

I spend a lot of time alone in deer camp because I hunt during the week. Deer camp sits at the junction of three wolf pack's territories. Even with the wolves, we still have a respectable number of coyotes. Normally a gut pile is gone by morning after shooting a deer in the evening. Rather than burn a tag feeding coyotes or wolves, if I am alone and in more open cover I will give consideration to finishing one off after dark.

I can hunt deer where I live too, and the season runs the same days. I'd never even consider that at home, too many people, no wolves and fewer coyotes.

The last couple minutes at around 140-150 with either a 3x or 6x. I can't remember. 100yards behind the Deer is where you definitely don't want them to go.

He was more in the open at the shot, but he walked off as if nothing happened. By the time I got to where he was standing and looked a little it was dark. I heard him go down or thrash and luckily took the right line.

A light was involved and I would have shot again if it was necessary.

The last few minutes of legal light is shaky ground and number of xxxx's has little to do with it.


Addition: I do remember the scope. It was a 2.5-8 probably somewhere between 6 and 8.

I have a Weaver Grand Slam 4.75 on a Ruger 77 MKII, don't feel handicapped at all

The Leupie 4x is the easiest scope to use in the world, IMO. When you pull the gun up, the scope is there, period, even from odd angles.

In that sense, it's only rival is the Leupie 6x42, but I find the 4x even easier to use.

I killed a nice buck at well over 400 yards with a Leupie 4x without much of any trouble.

For the money the VX-2 2-7X33 is a better choice.

The Op was also asking about the 3-9x40. That's where you insert your, "VX2 3-9x40 is the best scope for the money" slogan. Come on swampy, you gotta sell this thing

For some reason I always felt they should make a fixed 5X. I've often wanted a little more magnification than my 4X could give me and tried a fixed 6 for one season and wanted more field of view.

Yup, the 4x is all you need...Leupold or Weaver take your pick, both real nice.

The 2x7 is a very good compromise between a 4x and 3x9 as it does offer some versatility with a size & weight very close to a FXII 4x. I like them both.

FTR ... I own a total of four 4x scopes, two 2x7s and one 3x9 as well as other low powered variables.

Hi,

I do make mine what JoeBob write...!!! Nothving more, nothing less!
I have my big game rifles allready with two scopes, sighted, in quick detachable mounts:
My main rifle, a Mauser 1935 7x57 now with a Kahles Helia C 2,5-10x50 (one of the lightest, if not the lightest 50 mm scopes...) AND a fantastic Zeiss Diatal DA 4x32. Bought new in the early �70s
The other main rifle, the Win M70 Pre-64 (1954) .375 H&H. With a Zeiss Victory 1,5-6x42 AND a FANTASTIC Zeiss Diatal ZA (26 mm tube self centered reticle)...perhaps THE BEST 4x riflescope ever made.....as all the ZA Zeiss series scopes as well...
The other main rifle, the FN-AKAH .30-06 with the Zeiss Victory 2,5-10x50 AND an excelent Meopta steel tube 4x32.
I discovered in the end, I use MAINLY the 4x32 scopes as THE PRIMARY scopes...!!! The others as specialized items...

Best Regards

PH

I've hunted 4X Leupolds and a 4X B&L scope since 1972 in all sorts of places. They have worked alot better than I ever thought they would. That includes hunts above 11,000 ft., hunts in places where it rains 80-100 inches a year and places where it rains an average of 3.5 inches a year.
What has really impressed me was how they can take really nasty impacts - my old 4X B&L had my weight slam it into the rocks as I fell, the rifle hit the ground upside down - and still held it's zero. Both my old M8 Leupold an my newer FXII have the rifles they were on flipped off my shoulder so I could use both hands to break my fall. Neither changed zero. I understand the 4X Leupolds rarely show up needing repairs for anything.
All that said, I just bought a 1.5-4X20 VX-R Patrol for my .308. The small variable Leupolds also have a solid rep for taking a beating and holding their zero.
However, the 4X, FXII that has been on it are also going along on my hunting trips thanks to Leupolds excellent QRW rings. It's never a bad idea to carry a spare rifle scope.
BTW, a 20mm scope, to produce a nice bright image during low light conditions can't be set on anything much over 3X. But they can, and do work during such conditions. What they can't do is see as far as the more powerful and larger scopes. E

I just put a 4x Nikon on a ruger RS flat bolt I just bought. Gun was in newish condition. Great match, and I think it's a keeper. Leupold would have been just as good, but cost more.

I've thought the same thing. Five power would be perfect. Now all the variable fans will be on to tell us to get one and set it on 5x. Fixed power for me, either 4x or 6x.

Got several 4x's all on .22 rf or bb guns

After much research and input from you guys it's going to be a Leupold 4X or a Leupold 2-7 x 33. At least I have it narrowed down to those two. Thanks for all your help!

Didn't Zeiss make a 5X at one time?

I don't know about that but I don't think I'd want more than 4X in a fixed scope.

Cool

Doesn't sound like you've ever tried a fixed 6x...believe you'd be pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to use, even on close shots. The "all I saw was hair" stories are pure swamp gas.

Good choices....

I have fixed Leupold 6x scopes on a couple of my rifles. I don't have a lot of super close cover that I use those guns for so 6x is a better choice for my areas.

Burris made a fixed 5X for Browning in the seventies. I had one and liked it a lot, but back in those days I was chasing the perfect rig and rarely kept anything long term.

I got lots of experience but let some good stuff get away in the process.

Jack