I have recently gotten a Mauser and know very little about it. I was hoping someone could help me find info on it (model, age, value, rarity). I know it is a Czech and 7x64. It is a half stock. Site isn't letting me upload pictures because they are too big. If anyone can help me figure out that part I would be happy to load. If not then any ideas on how to get it to work? It also has waffenwerke brunn aktiengesellschaft on side of round receiver.

cool!

Brunn is now called Brno

This looks like a cool reference book
http://www.amazon.com/Mauser-Original-Oberndorf-Sporting-Rifles/dp/0889352305

now out of print, and maybe too limited to oberndorf to be fully useful to someone with a Brno.

This is GREAT
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...e-books/mauser-bolt-rifles-prod1692.aspx

and WOW its on sale for a great price. Just a little info in it on sporter mausers lots of history of mil mausers and discusses all the non-german makers. I loaned my copy to a new shooter who loves my mauser so I cannot check specifically to see if there is anything on Brno sporters.

Poole

Dang cool and I think Bill helped you..

Welcome to the campfire.
Might try Mauser central Lots of knowledge there.. I don't have any of my books handy....

Email the pictures to yourself, that will usually downsize them.

Sounds like maybe a BRNO 21h, in a very rare and desirable chambering. Does it look like this:



The butterknife handle, the schnabel, weird left side safety on the shroud, double set trigger, elegant trigger guard tend to be the give away features.

It is a small ring 98 model mauser, mostly produced in the late 40s. The side rail markings you describe were produced during the german occupation but the parts were still used for a while after that. early post war had round rings, later they switched to square bridges.

It should have a 2 digit date stamp on the left side of the receiver, near the barrel.

If you have an unmolested one in 7x64, you got lucky. I for one would like to see some pics. They are sweet guns.

Enis,

Welcome to the fire. From your simple description, you could very well have a fine rifle.

There is not a great deal of written material on these specific rifles that I can find at least, and I have learned most of what I know from other individuals. There is still much I dont know.

These rifles are one of my favorites and I have been lucky enough to round up a few.

Post some pictures and we will help you understand what you might have.

I posted some pictures of one of my 7X64's for you to compare.

Mine does not have the butter knife handle, but other than that does look like your Whitebird.

The 2 digit number on left side of receiver is 43.

Still trying to figure out how to post pics. Will keep trying till I figure it out. Not real computer savy so taking little longer than it should.

Mine does not have the butter knife handle, but other than that does look like yours Whitebird.

The 2 digit number on left side of receiver is 43.

Still trying to figure out how to post pics. Will keep trying till I figure it out. Not real computer savy so taking little longer than it should.

Also my email address is [email protected]. If anyone can send me an email I can reply and send pics that way also. Thank you.

Excellent- stamped during the war! It has been surmised by some, albeit without proof though it does seem logical, that the only sporters coming out of those factories during the war were for german big whigs. I really look forward to the pictures.

Here's a link to really long thread on another forum on the subject of early post war BRNOs-

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?335607-BRNO-21

I replied with pictures to the email. If they didn't come through let me know and I will resend.

A lot of the BRNO's have been modified over the years by gunsmiths to "improve" them. You might have one of those. The spoon bolt handle seems to be the 1st thing cut off the old BRNO's followed by the addition of a recoil pad.

Is the safety on the left or right side of the action? Is it a large or a small ring action?

The 43 on the action is interesting and makes me wonder if it's a 21H at all, assuming the 43 is the date of manufactor.

I don't think they offered this model for sale until 1945. On this I could be wrong as the history on these rifles is sketchy at best.

Yes, calling it a 21 may be a stretch, the designations for this family of guns is a little murky to begin with because some of the charactaristics weren't all consistent. And I don't imagine there was much commercial production during the Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia. In fact I have read that the BRNO plant was more or less run under a forced labor regime. But I have seen 3 examples of war time sporters marked on the side rail with the german designation for the BRNO plant, so obviously some non- military rifles were being produced. I have heard conjecture that these rifles were for Nazi Elites, no proof on that. But considering the drastic change of regimes between 1943 and 1946, I would be very surprised if these were being offered or marketed under same monicker (21h) during the Nazi occupation as after.

The safety is on the left side. Not sure what you mean by small or large ring action? Nothing on it looks oversized so I would guess small ring. Sorry.

Did the pictures of the rifle come through email to you?

Enis;
Welcome to the 'Fire from just across the medicine line sir.

Mausers and all of the minutia connected to them is a whole lot of information to absorb and truly sir, we all started from the start at one point in our journey.

If this works for me....


There we go, so that's the outside dimensional differences between a military large ring and small ring.

The BRNO sporter actions were large ring length but small ring diameter up front - usually..... I think.

See, even after 30 years of studying them, I'm only sure I've not seen all the variants out there yet.

Hopefully that was a wee bit helpful, again welcome to the 'Fire and all the best to you in 2015.

Dwayne

What would you say this model is? 8X57JS Stamped 42. SN 2894. Rifle has the Z stamped on the front ring. Jeweled bolt?

The 7X64 I posted above has a lower SN, same side rail marking, but no Z stamped on the front ring. The 7X64 has no year markings that I can find.

These rifles were from the same collection, and there were several others that were war time stamped as well.

Thoughts.... comments?

Wow- that's a blonde bomb shell there. The historic context, and the craftsmanship is just extraordinary. I'm no expert, there are some folks around that know way more about these guns than me. The obvious things are-

german sidereal marking, occupied Czechoslovakia- harsh occupation

Stripper clip slot- military receiver, deleted shortly after the war

Some bolts didn't have the guide rail- I don't know the rhyme or reason for that but yours does

Finely jeweled bolt- super cool, that looks factory to me

Round receiver rings- later these became square, 1950ish

I wish I could offer more info, as has been noted info on these gun is murky at best but they are super fine.

Here are some pics emailed to me from from the OP. The stock is quite unusual for this type of gun, much beefier- I wonder if it is original. It might be numbered inside, interested to hear if it is.

If it's not a model 21, how would I find out what model it is? If you look a couple posts down there are some pics from someone else that looks almost identical to mine. His shows a 42 where mine is a 43. It has the same mint mark as mine. Also his has butter knife handle and mine is bolt. If you look in post below his, the pics there are mine listed by another since I couldn't get them to load from my computer.

Ian- it's closer to a 21 than anything else, but realistically it might be that it wasn't produced with a model number in mind. It might have been built to a particular persons specifications, or not. The stock is not what is normally seen on a 21h, but it could be a replacement. Could be someone requested a heavier stock, the normal stocks are VERY light. what is the overall weight of your gun? My stock was numbered to my 21h, in the barrel channel. It will be worth checking that. Does the butt plate show a CZ insignia? Just bear in mind the BRNO guns don't all necessarily fit neatly not model numbers. It's a very cool gun, close to a 21h, but quite unusual in being produced during the nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia.

If you need tips on taking the barreled action out of the stock, let us know, it's not hard, but the right screw driver, and I mean the EXACT right screw driver is KEY> If you don't have a good variety of screwdrivers or tips, best to hold off on that.

IMO, I believe you and Whitebird basicly have the same rifle. The big difference is Whitebird has a pretty much original and your's i think has been modified by a gunsmith at a later date.

I have been doing some research on a BRNO ZKW 465 over the last few days and have found some interesting stuff concerning BRNO's. From what I've read sporting rifle production was supposed to have been stopped during the Nazi occupation but there have been more than a few sporting examples found from the war years. Some claim they were produced for the upper Nazi party members. While very interesting there is no proof of it.

The 21h line is said to have designed by Josef Jelen with input from Otagar Galas (designer of the ZG-47) and was called the 721 and 722 originally. These two rifles are so close to the 21h's and my guess is they are pre mass production examples.

Now, the reason I think your's has been modified is A. The bolt handle looks a little long and it has a dog leg shape. Most bolts from this era rifle the bolt stops before the bottom or even with the floor plate. Your's looks like it will hang a little lower than that when closed. It also has a dog leg shape which would be very uncommon for a rifle from this era. And B. The stock. I just don't believe that stock is era correct. I don't think the raised cheek piece came into vogue until the 1950's. Still a very nice and desirable rifle. I would be proud to own it.

Now keep in mind this is just a guess on my part. Like I said in an earlier post, a lot of these rifles have been modified over the years. Whitebird's rifle looks to be original I might be a little suspect of the jeweling but it wouldn't bother me if that wasn't original.

I think TC1 is most likely correct but I think it's worth checking out the barrel channel to see if it numbers, but he makes a very good point, not only does the stock not look like original- it really doesn't look period correct. Still worth checking the barrel channel to see if it numbers, unless of course the butt plate says Bishop or Fajen, which wouldn't surprise me.

TC1- since you mentioned ZKWs- heres one-

That's it! I'm getting one soon. Beautiful rifle.