I see these mentioned frequently. I grew up in the 60s and 70s and don't remember any Sakos before the Garcia days.

When did Garcia begin importing Sakos And why are they considered to be lesser rifles?

1972.

Many think that having "Imported by Garcia Corp" on the barrel made it less than desirable compared to the ones prior that did not have that stamp.

IIRC, they were first imported around '66, but I might be wrong on that date.......the 1st one I bought was in '68, a brand new 338 Win Finnbear Deluxe with Bofors stamped barrel.

MM

Sample rifle was Sako Finland from 50s with barrel marking .375 Magnum. It had commercial FN Mauser action, medium weight barrel with 100m, 200m rear sights and stock very similar to late 50s Model 70. It handled better than later made Sakos and Mauser action is preferable to later Sako actions. Since I had no use for .375 H&H a member of Accurate Relaoding picked it up.

Pre-Garcia.....love em. If a rifle can be sexy, that's one right there!

Another good one I have seen was mini actioned Woodsman or similar name. Anyhow wonderful little rifle, but I could never buy one because of half a dozen I have seen over the years were all chambered for that stupid ,222 Remington round. Wish I could find one in .22 Hornet or .223 than I could feel good about buying one.

Man, that factory hooded rear sight was a work of art and marvel of engineering.

Huh??!!

Please pm me when you find any more stupid woodsman (forester) vixen .222's. Thanks man

My "Stupid .222 Remington round" Sako Vixen.

I have't seen one in over a year. I'm almost certain last one I have seen had Mannlicher stock. If I find one or something else worthy of buying like old Zbrojovka Brno Fox Mini Mauser you will be the first to know.

LOL , a very good friend of mine has that gun and it will never be pried from his hands.

Any Of the two-lug Sakos are fine, accurate, rifles. The newer ones, at least the Model 75s are too, I believe, but I have no experience with them. Based on what I've read here, there are some issues with the 85s regarding ejection and with getting them repaired.

I purchased a .223 Vixen, a Garcia import, about 1972 for $257. It was an excellent rifle, but the stock edges were a little sharp and the grip a little too tight for me. I mounted a Lyman 8X scope in Redfield bases and rings as I knew nothing about ringmounts that fit directly on the dovetails. It was quite accurate, considering my reloading skills, and functioned flawlesly. I foolishly traded it off for something I thought I wanted more (turns out I didn't).

Last summer, I purchased a circa 1965 Bofors Steel-marked .243 Forester online. It's a bit worn around the edges, but the bore is good, and it's a fine shooter. It came with a factory peep sight, which I sold, and now wears a VX-2 2-7 in Leupold ringmounts. I carried it during our rifle season and shot a spike buck with it. It's quickly become my go-to deer rifle, largely because it carries and fits me so well.

Comparing the two, the .223 was a lot shinier and had a better-looking trigger guard and floor-plate. The stocks are styled almost identically, but as mentioned, the .223 seemed a lot sharper on the edges. It also had a free-floated barrel. Garcia or not, I would be happy to have it back.

Anyway, if you're looking for a really nice, blued-and-walnut rifle, either vintage would be well worth pursuing and paying the price for. The Bofors guns are somewhat more collectable, but as shooters, either will do just fine.

Fire guru Shrapnel is the main Sako man here, I believe, at least when it comes to .222 magnums.

Sako has to be the best made production rifle you can get your hands on. They were built by craftsmen and hand fitted to perfection. I say were, as I wouldn't even consider owning a new Sako.

The pre-Garcia is an era of rifle making that appeals to the real rifleman. The Garcia era guns carried on with that tradition until around the early 70's, when they did some changes that weren't accepted well by the Sako shooters.

Bofors Steel is regarded as some of the best barrel steel you can get, and Sako used it until around 1973. There is a ton of information not known about Sako and I don't want to add to that confusion, but if you want the best rifle from a production facility, a pre-Garcia in any chambering will be the choice.

This is a list of models, serial numbers and years of production. It isn't the complete build history of Sakos, but it does show some models and years they were produced...


Model Change First date First number

Last number Last date


P54 12.08.1954 20001 44052 24.05.1972
P72 09.02.1972 00101 03246 09.05.1974
M78 Stamp change P72==>M78 12.06.1979 711755 719490 15.08.1983
M78 Hornet 18.12.1979 712716 713685
L46 ja L469 25.09.1946 1 57000 25.09.1962
L461 26.09.1962 57001 134252 27.12.1973
L461 Numbering change 09.05.1974 134253 156953 30.09.1977
L461 Stamp change L461==>AI 30.09.1979 156954
L461 Change of the rear part of the receiver 03.05.1982 174331 179589 08.01.1985
L461 Action manufactured by CNC-machines 09.08.1985 179701
L461 Two part trigger guard 08.03.1989 187382 191580 28.01.1991
L461 PPC Numbers mixed with L461 03.11.1987 183762 191245 04.01.1991
L461 PPC Special numbering in cal. 6 mm PPC 03.08.1987 A-001 C-180 15.02.1990
L461 PPC Special numbering in cal. 22 PPC 10.08.1987 A-001 A-553 15.04.1988
L461 Common numbering 05.02.1991 800049 823847 19.05.1992
S491 Change of model and stamp AI==>S491 25.08.1992 827162
L57 14.01.1957 1 10090 09.10.1959
L579 29.01.1960 10091 118961 15.02.1973
L579 Special numbering 24.05.1973 1 310
L579 Numbering change 09.05.1974 300001 327115 27.12.1977
L579 Stamp change L579 ==>AI 03.11.197 327116
L579 Change of the rear part of the receiver 03.05.1982 351081 359880 28.12.1984
L579 Action manufactured by CNC-machines 22.05.1985 360001 372629 27.06.1989
L579 Two part trigger guard and new magazine opening 04.05.1989 380001 385127 31.01.1991
L579 Common numbering 06.02.1991 800316 821799 01.04.1992
M591 LH New model and stamp M591 18.10.1991 816120
L61R 31.01.1962 1 90954 12.09.1973

The Sako Vixen in the pic has this #97XXX.

Slavek must be synonymous with Pollock.



Travis

Sako Vixens in 222 can be sent this way.

Like to have a nickel for every woodchuck that went to Clover Heaven by way of mine or the wee little Anschutz 222........with 6X scope

Without peer as a varmint rifle/cartridge in more settled eastern places.

Who wouldn't feel good about a $2,000 Hornet?

This guy definitely needs one in 218 or 7mm Sako.....

Garcia took over importation of Sako in 1972(maybe 1971). Pre-Garcia rifle is synonymous with Pre-1972. Very similar to how gun enthusiasts designate pre-64 Winchesters from post-64. It was a time period when Sako rifles underwent some changes that were not universally accepted by Sako aficionado's.

Generally, a pre-72 (pre-Garcia) rifle, will have a 3rd locking lug at the rear of the bolt, a higher polished blue, generally a lighter more svelte stock ( pistol grip cap) and a lighter contour barrel (roughly .600" vs. .650" at muzzle) and most likely have a Bofors stamp and a fixed sling mount, no swivel. They will not have an importers mark on the barrel. Many believe their fit and finish is better. Value is very dependent on the model (deluxe or standard) and obviously condition.

Most of this matters more to collectors than hunters/shooters. The Garcia era rifles are excellent as well.

Thanks to all...

I occasionally see stuff here that gets me wondering. Hope I never get too smart to ask, as this is surely a place where answers can be had...

Well, opinions certainly!

Get it re-chambered That made me chring.

Yes the old ones were superior to old Winchesters but not to Zbrojovka Brno, Mannlicher Schoenauers, Weatherby of J.P. Sauer or before era or old FN Browning bolt guns. Interestingly some Brownings in smaller calibers were made using Sako actions.

I love my heavy Sako 22-250 marked 'Firearms International, Washington, D.C.' That one's a beauty and near perfect condition.

There was a Sako in 222 Rem Mag on Gunbroker. I messaged the seller to warn him of the POS he owned and made a generous offer to take off his hands at reasonable value less the cost to rebarrel to a real chambering. Must've been one of the regulars her selling it because the only response was GFY

Always had a thing for pre-Garcia Mannlichers....

You really are a polack...

Kirk, I used to shoot my friends older Finnbear in 7mm Rem Mag and it was probably one of the most accurate factory rifles I've ever shot. Even using factory Federal loaded with Nosler Partitions, it would consistently shoot 3 shots touching each other @ 100 yrds. It was made around the mid to late 70's I believe. After he bought that rifle, I bought Husky 8000 ( the fancier one with nice walnut with a rosewood forend tip and grip cap) and while it too was a beautiful rifle with a super smooth action, it couldn't match the accuracy of the Sako.

My Sako collection is a 1966 'Forester', bought from the original owner, mint. The second is a Model 75, also mint, both in 243.

The Foresters and Vixens are just about perfect, I think. The long-actions are pretty heavy, about the right weight for a .338. I don't need a .375, but if I did, I'd try to find a nice Sako before I got something else. They come, I believe, in an even longer action, but I've never seen one.

Have two, a L579 .308 Mannlicher (my whitetail rifle) and a L579 Deluxe .243 I bought years ago for my youngest daughter. Sweet guns.

Yes, the pre-Garcia Sakos were fine rifles. Even the white-line spacers in their stocks were a cut above all but a few others (I know this from my own .222 L46, made around 1965). But to say they were the finest rifles ever made is a stretch. I suspect Slavek is being a little tongue-in-cheek with his comments on the .222, but several other European companies know how to make fine rifles, and made them during the same period as the pre-Garcia Sakos.

I must also comment that the most accurate out-of-the-box Sako I've ever fired was a 75 in .308. In fact it was one of those really boring rifles that was perfect as-is, with no need to tweak the trigger pull, bed the stock, or anything else, and shot more accurately than any custom hunting-weight .308 I've ever fired. But a lot of Campfire members would rather pay somebody a thousand or three $$$ to customize a Remington 700 (or 700 clone).

But I have noticed that several of Shrapnel's pre-Garcia Sakos were restocked, perhaps because he found the white-line spacers in the factory stocks unacceptable.

I do believe this is in your home state....

Nice one overpriced by about $400, but still few hundred less than Sako of same configuration....

When Don Moody was alive God Bless his soul he said these are rare.

I only have one Sako of any configuration that has been restocked. It is still restocked with an Original Sako stock that I had bedded and floated to preserve the stock that came on that rifle so I could shoot it. You were the one to tell me to do that...

The 338's & 375, at least on models up through the AV's, are all on the same action.

MM

I've had a few Sakos come through my hands and the one I'd be quite happy to have back is a mid 60s Forester in 243.(and not because of the cartridge particularly) Beautiful action and nicely proportioned to that case size. I'd love to put together a 7-08 on that action!
The larger actions (L61s) are just as nice but the rifles are typically way too heavy for std cartridges, for me. About right for a 300 or 338 mag, which I have no desire to hunt with any more.

So, tell me about the Colt Coltsman?
I have one in .264 WM. Looks like a Sako Super Deluxe. Very nice rifle.

There are a lot of variations of the Colt Coltsman depending on which model and the time period of its production. The earliest Coltsman was built on an L57 Sako action but did not have a Sako barrel. Later versions were produced on the L461/579/61R actions and may or may not have Sako barrels. I think the Deluxe models were mostly all Sako. The Coltsman is a fine rifle. If you have a chance, post a pic of yours. It would be cool to see a pic of that Coltsman Deluxe.

Obviously, the bottom one.

Holy F......LOL

mcm,

Wow, that is a sweet rifle. That's one of the nicest Coltsman's that I've ever seen! What stamp does it have on the barrel?

I re-barrelled it, so collector value is gone, but it was originally Bofors. 264 WM is a little rough on barrels.
Don't have it in front of me, but as I recall serial # is 159. I believe that would make it a 1961? About the same age as the Westerner above it.

Very cool rifle. You don't see those Coltsman Deluxes very often.

The 338's & 375, at least on models up through the AV's, are all on the same action.

MM [/quote/]

It's longer or bigger than the Finnbear, correct?
My brother had a .270. Nice, but HEAVY!

Not bad rifle but if I wanted a primadonna Colt Sauer or J.P. Sauer Weatherby would be my choice.

Yep, those are sweet rifles! As far as proprietary Sako's go, that Coltsman is a nice one.

The long actions were indeed heavy. The pre-garcia pictured below (middle rifle) is a 270 that weighs about 9.5 lbs all in. The one below that is a Sako AV 375 for comparison. The 375 weighs about 8 lbs.

The Finnbear 270 shoots lights out and is my favorite rifle, I just wish it was a pound and a half lighter.



-MJS

I understand completely. I bought a beater L61R 270 once and it weighed about 9 1/2 lbs scoped. Had it rebarreled to 30-06 and dropped it in a Mcm classic edge. It weighs 8 lbs now.

I've never been a fan of synthetic but I might have to do that to a 25-06 L61R. That would make a great package. Did the stock change amount for most of the lost weight or was the barrel change a factor too?

Both, the barrel contour was smaller as well.