New member today.
After a 9 month wait I finally went to the range with New member today.
After a 9 month wait I finally went to the range with my Kimber 84M Montana .308. Leupold VX-3 2.5-8x36, Tally ultralight one piece. Wheeler torqued correctly. Two factory ammunition choices used: Nosler 165 Accubond and American Eagle 168 OTM. Weather: 50 degrees with 5mph variable. Results at 200 yards: 8-10 inches. I'm bad at many things but shooting has never been one of them. I'm used to MOA accuracy. I need help. Technique, ammo selection, etc.
Thanks in advance...

Gunbroker

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/9285942


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8486078/Montana_tinkering

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8495458/1

Have had 5 Kimber MT 308's, and been around a couple others... all would shoot something sub moa, a couple would shoot most things sub moa, one shot nearly everything sub moa.

8-10" groups... the problem is elsewhere, not the rifle.

Wow....

W

Id look at the scope and/or mounting system. That seems more logical than the rifle itself...

I must add that I waited @5-10 minutes between shots to allow the barrel to cool. As far as the previous post, why would anyone own 5 rifles of the same type and caliber?

]

Go to the above referenced threads and follow them. Your rifle probably has some or all of the issues that are addressed on those threads. Kimbers are great little guns but sometimes need to be "breathed on" a bit in order to settle down. Let us know what you find and Welcome to the Fire.

grab the fore end and squeeze it to the barrel, you can see how easy it touches with very little force. Rest the rifle as far back toward the trigger guard as you can, hold on to it well, 8-10 inches seems unreasonable. I have never done anything to mine, just reload for it, it took me a while to figure out how to shoot it from a bag.

It's fun to bed them, tweek them, load for them and wring them out on game.

It's part of loonyism. Hang around and you might figure that out.

Best guess is you don't know how to shoot a light rifle. But it may be something else as well.

Call Kimber and find out what their guard screw torque settings are - you mentioned a Wheeler torgue wrench - check those settings - wood or synthetic, if those screws are too soft or too hard, then you'll have problems like you're seeing.

Front screw, 45 ft-lbs, rear 35 ft-lbs.

It doesn't make that much difference... the problem ain't the rifle or the torques settings.

I appreciate all the feedback. I must restate the following: 8-10" at 200 yards is 4-5 MOA not 8-10 MOA. Before I undertake modifications to the rifle and void the warranty, I must exhaust all non-invasive techniques and then deal with the factory. After that, what do I have to loose?

Id try a new scope before all else.

I'd try unbolting the rifle from the scope and revolting a Tikka T3 under the scope.

Its the easiest way to get under 1" groups from a Kimber!


Shod

I'll go $700

I have, among my currently 35 rifles, SEVEN .338WMs of which four sre custom stocked P-64 Mod. 70s, one stainless Classic custom Mod. 70 and two custom stocked Dakota 76. All of these are identical in controls, very close in weight and balance and have similar mounts and scopes.

WHY??? Because, I WANT TO!!!!

Light rifles require a more consistent technique than heavy rifles. I don't let them free recoil. Go,through stuff above in the posts then work on technique.

You're going to strip something...

Read the links cited above. Then read 'em again before checking items off the list. If it's resolved in accord without a manufacturing FUBAR, bedding fore and aft of the mag well so as to fully float the spout combined with fodder tailored to an individual rifle have resulted in exceptional results with these dandy little rifles....

Run though the list.

go through the threads, but it sounds like a loose scope mount, or something similar.

But I also have a borescope, and I'd probably steal a glance at the bore, too.

I'll give you $600 for it.

No doubt

haha.. I wasn't going to say anything.

If the scope and mounts are solid (try a scope that has proven itself and carefully check the mounts) I would skim bed the action then make sure the action does not ride on top of the mag box. If the mag box have no movement when the rifle is assembled you should remove some material to create some space for the rifle to bed properly. Also check if it free floats properly.

I would do that first and shoot a few weight and powder combos and see how it does.

I honestly do not think a 308 has so much recoil (even in a Montana) that it will create groups of that size. As long as you do the same thing consistently over and over again.

Does the rifle foul? and how bad?

Pieter

I was using 2 types of quality ammo and ran a bore snake down the barrel after every few shots. Because of this, I would not have noticed any fowling. The thing I find most upsetting was that between shots on the new Kimber, I was shooting my son's 30.06 on the very next bench, also at 200 yards. His M77 was grouping @2" or 1MOA. Then, I would turn right around and shoot 8" - 10" with the Montana. I used good benchrest technique for both rifles.

Too true!

The first thing I'd try is a different scope.

The next thing I'd try is grinding down that front screw on the Talley base.

The third thing I'd try is placing something under the action (slice of credit card, etc.) and seeing if floating the barrel more better causes any noticeable difference.

I'd also move things to the 100 so you can have a more consistent barometer throughout your trouble shooting.

And remember to change ONE thing at a time. Don't combine two changes at the same time or you're going to be left scratching your head.



Travis

Good list Travis, and likely the best order to try.

I'd also add, bedding the receiver forward of the magazine to the end of the barrel shank "can" really make a difference.

While not necessary, I bed all mine tang to barrel shank end (under chamber) as a matter of course.

Can't hurt and sure can help.

I'll offer $750

I agree, but he seems apprehensive about going balls deep due to warranty issues so I thought I'd list the least permanent changes first.

Anyway, I'll go $775.00.... grin.





Travis

I collect Ruger #1's, which are notorious for accuracy issues, and a cottage industry exists for various tuning tricks.

But I've learned if you get ones with good barrels, they tend to be a lot less fussy. And I suspect Montanas are going to fall in the same category

Ft/lbs. In/lbs. it's all the same ain't it?????????

I'll go $780

Don't do that.

And how would that keep you from noticing someone bird hunting on the rifle range?

$795.

I think that there should just be a Kimber problem section to this forum. That way the people that don't own or never will own kimbers can avoid it. Why doesn't Kimber fix this problem and why do people buy them?

I took some of the advice from previous posts and did the following. First. I cleaned the bore using a bore guide. I removed the Tally Lightweight rings and used the Wheeler torque screwdriver to reattach to Tally specs. I used the same new VX-3 scope since all of my other scopes are attached to rifles. Using American Eagle 168 grain OTM, I bore sighted at 25 yards and shot again at 100yards, this time with a lead sled. Once again: 4" to 4 1/2" groups which would equate to what I was seeing at 200 yards yesterday. I then removed the stock and placed a sliver of credit card under the barrel at the fore end and reattached the stock. Shot again and produced similar groups as before. I called Kimber, explained my situation, and they said to make no modifications. They gave me an RMA and told me it will be @ a 6 week turnaround. Depending on what they determine, I may send the scope to Leupold next. Thanks to everyone for the references for modifications. I may need them later...

Hope it works out for you.

They're great rifles.



Travis

6 week turn-around? ....A buddy sent a Montana in 7mm.08 back to Kimber about year or so back for similar accuracy issues and it took 3 1/2 months to get his rifle back with no explanation as to the work that had been done on the rifle.......the rifle's accuracy had improved but it was still far from an MOA shooter so he cut his loses and sold it.......I hope the guy that bought it was a gun smith maybe he figured it out...............Good luck........Hb

I'd move one of those proven scopes to the Kimber for a trial.

^^Yep, This^^

try a bulls bag and drop the lead sled.

Yeah, no lead sled. might damage your stock.

Try this, "The next thing I'd try is grinding down that front screw on the Talley base."

Check your mag well. make sure it's not in a bind.

These are easy checks and fixes.

Wish you luck.

Damn, now I need to go get 6 weeks worth of popcorn...

OP, Please keep us updated with the progress of your Kimber.

Craig

Sounds to me like you did the right thing.

You told us about the rifle, but never made any mention of how the new member worked out for you ... or what happened to your old one.

With all due respect Brad......with the numerous threads on Kimber shooting problems, I highly doubt it's anything but the rifle. It may very well be killer after all the required tweaking, but I'm not sure how you can say for certain it's not the rifle?

Sorry, the post was typed on my iPhone and I saw the mistaken intro after posting. I am the new member and I had a 9 month wait for the Kimber.

Make sure to use a sharp knife and don't let the bull see you. Watch your toes when you drop the sled.

I'm glad I don't buy rifles that I don't feel comfortable doing whatever I want to, and never give the warranty a thought. Maybe that's dumb to some, but it's just me, and I'm fortunate enough to be able to work on my own chit. Good thing about most guns is that you can cut 'em loose and not be in the hole too far-- Kimbers qualify.

Only rifle I ever had that didn't need some tweaking was a Tikka. Of course, I tweaked 'em anyway.

Will stay tuned for furhter developments...

$810. Pikers.

I would do both of these prior to boxing it up.

Hurricane,

The credit card should go under the action in an effort to raise the barrel out of the channel. Not under the barrel.

Just an FYI for when it comes back.

And do switch the scope and I would not use a sled.

Did the Leupold on the Kimber ever get used in conjunction with the lead sled?



Travis

$820.

The guy came here looking for advise and obviously isn't savvy to rifle tinkering and with all the wise ass replies he remains and is trying to learn. Hurricane1997 good for you stick around and read you will learn much here

Kudos to Travis,you've been more than helpful without busting his balls....are you feeling ok?

WWJCD?




Travis

Forget the lead sled and Buy a T-3 Tikka.

Turn his Kimber to wine?

He would have got a good one

Thanks for all the support guys. I must admit, it has been a bit much to take in. Then again, I must have been blessed in the past as I have never really had any significant problems with my other firearms. Several notes: I did check the depth of the forward most base screw this morning for depth to ensure it would fully seat without touching the barrel threads. I only used the lead sled today since I was beginning to doubt my ability to shoot the rifle even though I was MOA with the M77 yesterday on sand bags. Therefore, I doubt the lead sled would have affected the scope since I was having similar groups using sandbags with the Kimber yesterday. The stock today is another matter as I have since read. I did not see any issues with it after the fact though and will not use the lead sled with it again. I don't like the thing anyway since it "removes" the human from the gun somewhat. It does not make for realistic practice and dial-in but it usually is accurate. Lastly, when I removed the stock this morning, everything seemed to go back together without issue. No binding observed. I really did not want to take a scope off of my other rifles. Just me, but once something is working really well I did not want to tinker with a working item. The gun is on its way back to Kimber. If they don't find anything, the Leupold will be off next. If that does not work, I will resign myself to 9lb rifles for the long term. At least I know I can shoot them well. Once again, thanks to all.

Send the leupy in anyway!!!!!! It is a free check-up and you have no need for it.

Isn't the American Eagle ammo about the cheapest you can buy? At least try some match grade ammo before sending it back.

The AE 168 OTM is regularly used in CMP programs. Not as good as the Sierra Match King but still good. I was also shooting Nosler 165 Accubond as well yesterday. Similar results with both.

My experience with Kimber MT's (16 total) is they're generally pretty particular when it comes to bullets.

Id bet if the OP could find some Federal Match 168 ammo he'd find MOA bliss. I've yet to have a MT 308 that wouldn't shooot it well.

That is, if his scope isn't fubar.

Also, I guarantee the front base screw is too long and is burying into the barrel threads. But that may be a red herring as I only recently figured that out (thanks SAS) and all mine from the past still shot something sub-moa.

I just got a Kimber Montana .308 a couple weeks ago, it is for my father but I have been getting it up to speed for him. I used Talley mounts and a spare 3.5-10x40 Leupold to get it broke in.

I only put 10 rounds (blue box 150 grain Federal) down the tube so far but the last 3 went into an inch at 100 yards.

If Kimber made these left handed 10 years ago I probably wouldn't have any NULA guns.....................I'm impressed to say the least.

Hopefully the OP gets his squared away.

Federal Blue Box anything is some of the least appreciated factory ammo, period.

That's a hint to the OP too!

Follow SAS's tips for Kimber accuracy. I have two Montana's and both had accuracy issues until I floated the barrel and bedded the recoil lug. I would check for binding of the magazine and front screw on the talley mount first.

I had a broken collarbone and still wanted to shoot so I picked up a lead sled. I thought I'd be able to shoot very well with it. Not so! I shot measurably worse with it. It's for sale on Craigslist.

As for technique, let's face it, there's a reason bench rest/target shooters have heavy rifles. They are more forgiving. You do have to be very conscious of consistent, repeatable technique with a light rifle.

Are both lugs engaging? Is the mag binding? Make sure the stock is not contacting the barrel at the shot.

I think the least I would have done would have been to follow some of the earliest advice given and try another proven scope before sending it back to Kimber.

Why even ask?

Good luck..

g

No.

He would throw an interception.



Travis

Worst case it comes back with a clean bill of health and he can start over.




Travis

Absolutely. You WILL get the scope back before Kimber gets that gun back to you. Then that variable is out of the way.

No, he would feed thousands.

I currently own four 7 Wby's, five 280's & four 300 WSM's. At one time I had twelve 280's. Never felt guilty about it.

Eleven Swedes here and a TC barrel for same.

5 of anything is rediculous, 12 of he same is just lunieism at it's best!

I have four 22s, four 223s, three 308s, three 270s, two 260s, two 30-06s, and two 300WMs. Those are the only multiples I have in rifles. I'm sensible.

How can you sleep at night with so many duplicates?


LOL

Gentlemen, I see how my posting could be understood in a way in which I did not intend. The person in a previous post said he had 5 Kimber 84M Montana's which were all in .308Win. I'm sure plenty of persons have magnificent firearm collections but I was interested as to why he had 5 of the exact same rifle. I thought there may have been a reason. Perhaps issues with some of the rifles necessitating the purchase of an additional rifle(s). Sorry if I offended anyone or their collection.

OK Hurricane.. take a few deep breaths and lighten up... sense of humor works here. You are among friends

g

Friends with sharp teeth What's the last bid, $820?

Hurricane,

Brad goes through at least one Montana/year...

Unfortunately from what I have read of experiences I do not recall anyone sending a Kimber Montana in for warranty and getting it back a shooter.

I think in 3 months you'll likely get your rifle back with the famous everything is within spec letter and then you will proceed to go through the fix list.

Or you can always sell it to the highest bidder and get a Tikka T3 that will shoot bugholes out of the box, is still plenty lite for a pack rifle, and doesn't require a 100 point shooting course to learn how to shoot it.

Shod

This.

Who in the hell are you calling a gentleman?

Never apologize on the 'Fire. It's just too 'gemtlemanly'. You will be accused of shooting a .270 win.

Fixed it for ya. Welcome to the 'fire.

Ernie

They are a little rough around the edges with a few SOB's mixed in but this is the best site on the web. No worries here, just speak freely.

I have a .308 tikka that is very accurate and a 7mm08 Montana that is plenty accurate with the 120 nbt that I have fed it. I bedded it and to see if I could improve on how it shot and it now shoots around an 1-1.5" depending on the day. I think with more load development i would really be on to something as I get 2 touching with a 3rd opening things up. Accuracy is important but the feel of these to rifles is so different. The Montana just feels right the way a quality well fitting shotgun should. The tikka isn't bad but it just feels so forced when making quick shots on game. I actually much prefer the BC extreme weather stock on my Winchester to the tikka factory stock by a long shot. I may actually buy one of the BC tikka stocks someday but it is hard to justify since the tikka is a loaner or future kids gun.

Hurricane...Don't give up on your Montana, once she comes around you will find yourself leaving your other guns home. When you are on the move the Kimber will be somewhere useful like in your hands! The groups that were attained on the bench will be pointless when the buck jumps out of his bed at 40 yards.

I have seen it.....new barrel and new stock under warranty by Kimber. I bought it after it was returned to the original owner. It was a shooter. A 25-06, IIRC. I sold it....should have kept it.

My other Montana's.....all bought second-hand......have also been accurate for me.

I'm still waiting to get screwed by Kimber roulette. Keep rolling the dice...but luckily haven't crapped out yet.

That beats my offer.

Get the B&C. I really like mine. You may find yourself carrying it as much or more than your other rifles.