This thing sucks... definitely won't group 150 Ballistic Tips.













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150 Ballistic Tips don't kill elk either...

Brad, what velocities are you getting with the 150 and Var-jay?

Hey, why fling one bullet when you can fling 2?

Few more lousy groups...

The bull only took one... the upper hole in his side is where he impaled himself with his 5th when he dropped. Seriously. Have never seen that before, and it took some work to get him untangled!

Depending, high 2,600's to low 2,700's.

Nosler Brass, Fed 210M's.

Everyone knows a 150 NBT is too tough for deer though...

I was just messin' with ya.

But it does sound totally possible.........

Oh I know you are... sure looks like a bullet hole, yeah?

Darndest thing I've seen in a long while.

Bull took the 150 in the ribs, bullet angled forward through 32" of elk and was under the offside Scapula. Bull trotted 50 yards, and piled up. Stone dead when I got to him a minute later.

Of course

Hey Brad,

It's those darned ballistic tips. Everybody knows they don't shoot and blow up on the hide of a cottontail...

As for the elk impaling himself, I hear that deflave does it regularly. Wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of GIYs on the campfire...
The elk isn't the only guy to suffer damage from a fifth either...

Thank's for the tip on Mchale. It's in the works...

Right on John... looking forward to the results.

Nice shooting...what velocity are you getting with 2000mr?

43 of 2000 MR gave 2,730

Let's keep facts out of this conversation. Kimbers never shoot and that is the end of the story.

I've heard it here for years, and every time mine shoots like that I tell myself "that did not just happen".

Sheesh, now on to the Kimber bashing>

Power, all 16 Montana's I've had would shoot something sub moa. A couple of them shot darn near everything sub moa.

I bedded all mine but I have never "resorted" to a pressure point. All barrels were free floated, but all shanks/chambers were bedded.

Montana's can be finicky, no doubt. But if you're flexible and allow the rifle to tell you what it likes, rather than try to force it to like something you want, you'll find something very accurate.

This 7-08 for example will not group a Partition... but loves a boattail. And it definitely prefers bullets heavier than 145 grains, even though I have more than a few tiny groups with the 140 NBT. It's far more consistent with the 150 NBT!

Nice shootin' Brad!


I am still trying to decide between a 7-08 or a 270.

If you ever get another one in 270 I call dibs!

Sammer, knowing your love for the 270 and the fact you have a 243 I'd say 270. That's about as perfect a Montana (the state!) pairing I can think of. Granted, I prefer the 84M action slightly over the 84L, but it's a gnat straining thing.

Get the 270, cut the barrel to 22" or 23" and put up some great photos!

I think the 150BT being more accurate than the 140BT is pretty much across the board with all rifles.

Brad, regardless of chambering they are great rifles!


Sure they might take a little tweaking but it is obviously worth it in the long run.



I'm beyond over my (current production)Sako phase.....grin

Totally agree... have seen it often enough to know it's true.

Wondered when the Finnish-Anvil phase would end

Still hunt with the lightweight A7 but the 85 hasn't seen the light of day in a couple years.





Just checked Shedhorn online and no MT 270, was gonna sweet talk you into picking one up and giving it a tune-up but you're off the hook.....grin

Nice shootin' Brad. You've got me wanting to develop a 150BT load for my 7-08. I have Varget, R15, H414, and Big Game. Oughta find something that will work.

I've only shot one big buck with the .284 150 NBT (ballistic silver tip actually), and it performed very well, entering right rear flank, found under skin in front left shoulder. Shot was fired from a 7mag at 3200fps @ muzzle, Deer was very dead at 150 yards.

Damn that Kimber crapshoot!
My four all shoot similar and only one has been tweaked!

Yeah, you have a real problem case there. I'll give you $700 for it....

I've had several that were great out of the box and several that needed a little work. I also had one that was a total loss and needed a new barrel. They are a nice rifle but acting like Kimber Roulette isn't real would be naive.

Dang, I better try the 150s then, because mine shoots 140's about like Brad's shoots 150's. Know where I can get some 2000 MR? I just got some 150 Scenars, gotta give those a try too.

It shoots 120 BTs best though.

Hey Brad, I know this is the "7mm-08" thread but what was your most accurate .308 bullet in your multiple Montana's?

Every one of them would shoot either a 165 or 168 NBT sub-moa with Varget or RL15.

A shame those Montanas won't shoot. Yours looks pretty picky with powders too.

Yeah, it's sort of an embarrassment of riches when it came to powders for this particular rifle... I didn't put up pics with Big Game... that worked great as well.

And the 308's... well, you could load them with rocks over dirt and they'll still shoot!

Thanks....

Now if I could just figure out how to get 180 BTs to shoot well in mine I'd be a happy camper. It's the one I want it to shoot well but it doesn't. ...yet. Shoots them ~1.25" and I've tried different powders, primers and seating depths.

I can see a 7-08 Montana in my future.

prm, you tried 200 NBT's?

You have darnest time with these rifles.. I don't understand why you don't just sell'em all.... if it comes to that let me know



^^^ I think this is very wise advice, that I don't think enough people accept.. dont try to force something if the rifle doesn't want it.

Be Safe,

Having owned one Kimber, a 338 Federal SuperAmerica, I'm no expert but.......

It is a very light rifle and needs to be held tightly when shooting off bags or in the field.

Mine hated all factory ammo I tried and the 160 TSX. Finally with the 185 TSX and 4198 I had a 1" 3 shot gun. Only killed a cow Elk with it. Broke both shoulders and flop. Bullet went into the mud bank behind her.

Finally woke up to the fact that when you have horses, rifle weight is somewhat immaterial except that a 9 pound 300 H&H is a better hunting rig than a 6.5 pound 338 Federal. So the Kimber went down the road and I now have 5 300 H&Hs.

Not with this rifle. I have not been able to locate any to try in awhile. They are on my to-do list though.

How much were the BG loads charges? Speeds? Thx.

Recently bought a 270 but have yet to shoot it (I have only seen it once...). Your view on the need for a barrel chop please.

TP, I mis-spoke. Meant to say "Hunter" rather than Big Game.

49.0 Hunter with the 150 NBT gave 2,745 fps., and gave the highest velocity with that bullet by a wide margin.

I think it's generally safe to run the 150 at 2,660 - 2,700 max with Varget, H4350 or RL17.

Ed, for me it's an aesthetic thing... the barrel is just too darn long to my eyes in relation to the forearm length. It's "snouty!"

My rule of thumb is the barrel should be 2" to no more than 3" longer out front of the forearm than the actual length of the forearm itself.

So in other words, if the forearm is 9.5" long, I don't want there to be more than 12.5" of barrel out in front of it, and 11.5" is nicer to my eyes.

Subjective thing and obviously gnat straining, but there it is.

Would also add, since it's a no.1 contour, cutting the 84L's barrel shorter (stiffer) with a nice step crown is not anything that can hurt, and likely can help.

If I get another 84L MT its barrel will get cut to 22 or 22.5".

Here's a 30-06 84L MT with 23" barrel... as you can see, it's still pretty long in relation to the forearm:





270 w/ 23" barrel:

FWIW.......(and a bit of a derail here) The local Gander Mountain in Tonawanda NY had a BARELY used 30-06 Montana with Leupold bases for $899 less 10% the other day. $810 sounds pretty good and IIRC they'll ship their guns to another GM for zip.

The gun did not look like it had been shot..........

Brad, great backdrops to those last two pics, very pretty country.

84L or 8400 30-06 Montana?

The 8400 is not a rifle I favor at all...

Thanks for clearing that up, I was kind of wondering about that since the Nosler manual switches from BG to Hunter when you go from the 140 to the 150. BG gets the best velocity with 140's in mine by far, right at 2,900 with no apparent pressure issues. That's gotta be pushing it though. I don't shoot that load because Varget although slower is more accurate.

Gonna try the 150 Scenars with Hunter and see what happens.

I got one in December and shot one load (Lake Schitty brass, CCI 200, 44.5gr's of RL 15 and the 155gr. Scenar.) it went 1 1/2 MOA right out of the box.

Took it home and did the same schit I've done to just about every other factory rifle. Check mag box, screw lengths, bed and float, blah, blah, fuggin'-blah.

Same load did this:



It's no secret that light guns are tougher to shoot and that is what I attribute all the Kimber woes to. I could be wrong, but that is what I think contributes to a whole bunch of people's problems.

The [bleep]'s are LIGHT. And they are a fantastic bargain IMO.



Travis

All of the above, including "tweaks" (what factory rifle doesn't need tweaking?)!

Have said it for a long time, a LOT of the supposed Kimber "inaccuracy" is the nut behind the butt.

Are these groups you guys are showing with the Montana's at 100 yards?

How do they do when you wring them out at 400-600 yards?

Thanks -

Greg, mine are all 100 yards.

Shooting out to 500 yards is often, though not always, moa with the better loads. Some of mine have been consistent out to that range, others haven't maintained moa at longer range (past 300 yards).

It depends...

Will say too, I often throw a shout out of a Kimber group. These rifles are darn light and require VERY consistent bench technique... something I don't always posses!

A Kimber MT in 308 at the bench is around 5lbs 13 oz's... just like a supertanker is more stable on a heavy sea than a dinghy, so a heavier rifle is less prone to human vagaries.... and yeah, the Montana is a dinghy.

Those are the 1, but it has been grouping ridiculously well @ the 2 and 3 as well.

I've been shooting it at least once a week (on steel) since I got it up and running and I shoot it to the 500 regularly. It do well.

I don't have any pics because there has been snow on the ground and my vagina does not like to post-hole more than once per range session.


Travis

If I want to shoot clay pigeons @ 600yds, my MT isn't what I would grab. But if I want to hit milk jugs from the 1-500 with the lightest rifle, and least complicated fashion, I can't see finding anything better than the MT.

The biggest drawback to them is I haven't figured out how to fit my dong into the chamber. Yet...



Dave

That excessive headspace can be a bitch.

Like putting a .22LR into a 25-06 chamber, huh?

Good question, I didn't know there was a difference. Google answered that for me! If someone is interested a phone call could answer that question. If I get over that way, I'll check myself.

Probably would be a lot easier to reach if they hadn't put the chamber 3" in there.

Shod

Well, it's a distinction non-Kimber-nerds usually don't make!

However, hold an 8400 30-06 MT in your hands and an 84L 30-06 MT in your hands and it's like holding Rosie O'Donell vs Audrey Hepburn...

It's the elevated discussion that keeps bringing me back to the Campfire...

Most be the definition of "doesn't fit" in Texas.

Color me shocked.

(not really)



Travis

Thanks guys -

Just curious -

Greg,

This was 500y with 120gr bullets... TTSX or NBT, I don't remember which now. Some wind, but not too bad with 6x42 M1. 3-tight, dropped one, and have no clue what happened with the far right (obviously shooter).

Jason

Switched to the 162gr AMAX a few months ago, once they went online again. Same 6x42 M1 in Talleys. 100 yard 3-shot cherries.

Replaced the 1" 6x42 FX3 with a SWFA 3-9x MQ. Same AMAX load.

JB mentioned 5-shot groups as a better standard, and Formi says anyone can get lucky with 3-shots. So 10-shots at 100y. That's a lot of pressure on the shooter, and I get stage-fright.

The extra weight of the SS has made the overall recoil characteristics different... in a good way. The rifle is much less finicky about hold. With the 120gr loads, the rifle jumped alot and needed a tighter hold... with FX3. Same with 162gr and FX3.

With the SS it still doesn't like free-recoil but I can shoot with my offhand resting on top of the scope and not holding the fore-end. MUCH easier to shoot, and weight/handling are still decent.

Just for the record, the rifle was made early 2013 IIRC.

I went thru the "List" and it didn't need a thing. Screws were shortened just a hair, but really didn't need it. Still has the slave bedding.

Don't know about anyone else but I got a little, uh, elevated after reading about Flave's attempted dong chambering.

In a totally non Brokeback way.

270 lover...

I'd always pictured Flave as more of a 223.

I am.

Wait...




Dave

The sheep call it "comfortable".

I checked; 8400 and it does have a fat Rosie belly.

Man, I've got a hankering to shoot something with a 7mm08 this fall now...

LOL... I wonder why?

Yes it does.

Flave could probably chamber the Rosie perch belly no problem.

Why, it the Rosie perch belly a 3"?

I've heard a little bit about Montana 7-08's that won't shoot;)

Just a random picture from one famous POS 7-08

SAS, you know the saying. If at first you don't succeed...

And you're a legitimate witness of a bang, bang, bang group with that rifle!

That's a good one.

Thanks

I read somewhere, here on the 'fire perhaps, that three shot groups are, well, ugh, tell us little. Which one is the flier?

Out of the hundreds of thousands of Kimber Montana's produced most of which only shoot average or sub par groups I'm glad to see a couple of you got one that shoots decent.

If everyone on this site posted groups shot by rifles costing MUCH less there wouldn't be enough bandwidth to show them all.

But if you then filtered the list to rifles that carry as well in the mountains, fit and point as well, had controlled round feed, three position safety, etc., the list would get pretty short.

Actually that list would include exactly 1 riffle. Kimber 84M/L Montana!

No other production rifle has a petite, ultra-lightweight crf action with 3-pos safety and one of the very best, if not THE best, production closed trigger on the market.

Try to find a crf action the weight of the Kimber 84M/L at any price.

Add a laid (not chopped) fiberglass stock with aluminum pillars and 1" decelerator pad.

Call the stock $550. Call the bbl'd action $550.

That's $1100, which is what they can be bought for new.

Now go try to replicate it for that price. I double dog dare ya!

NOT POSSIBLE

The Kimber MT is THE best value in a lightweight production rifle there is. Nothing comes close.

And BTW, Kimber America hasn't made rifles in the multiple 100's of thousands. They "might" have reached a bit over 125,000 with all models.

I've had 16 different Montana's and could put up similar groups with all of them. Not one didn't have at least one bullet weight/style that would shoot like the 150 NBT groups I've posted.

I'm just sorry for those that can't shoot a lightweight rifle... and/or are too impatient to find out what their rifle likes, or are too stubborn or cheap to try a variety of bullets.

Say it ain't so! Oh how I hate reality.

So true... misinformed rants are so much easier.

I'd love to see someone build a rifle costing MUCH less that is comparable to a Kimber Montana.

Ain't happening.



Travis

The Cliff Notes version. Nicely said.

Greg, my 308 with 155's did some pretty good things at 300-500 yards. No sub 1/2 MOA barn burners, but reliably around MOA or a bit better off a pack and rear rest. There's 2 groups on this plate after an elevation change to bring POI closer to center... 500 yards....



Tanner

Please......If you want to discuss LIGHT WEIGHT a NULA is lighter. If you want to discuss ACCURACY lots of brands costing a LOT LESS than a Montana are just as accurate and many are more accurate.

I've got a $250 Steven 200 in 223 that will embarass most Montana's when it comes to accuracy.

Keep drinking the Kool Aid and convince yourselves how great your Kimbers are. Been ther done that. I wised up.

Anybody that hunts and enjoys rifles should own at least one Kimber Montana.

A NULA is twice the cost of a Montana and hardly a production rifle.

If you want to talk ACCURACY of lightweight rifles, the first order of business would be to take that POS Stevens and throw it in the trash.



Travis

And the NULA action isn't CRF, doesn't have a 3-pos wing safety, isn't stainless, and its Timney trigger isn't as good as the Kimbers IMO.

And yeah, costs one hell of a lot more. Actually 3x as much.

I think this guys posts on this subject fall under the category "unencumbered by actual thinking."

Nicely said.

Nice Tanner.

I miss my 308 MT so much a guy from the campfire was kind enough to send it back to me in the exchange for a fair price.

And that's why the Campfire is, what it is...

Exactly!

Maybe you can ring them up and have them turn a run out in left hand.

Pretty hard to argue with that..

Im probably gonna get chastised for this, but a Kimber love-fest isn't something you see very often....


I am truly glad you guys are having good luck with yours.

Ingwe, no chastisement from me, but my experience with Kimbers leads me to believe the problem isn't the rifle, but is "the nut behind the butt."

Thats the issue with most rifles that have a "problem".....

I took my Kimber Classic from 1 1/2" shooter to 3/8" shooter. It took a 23" Broughton 5C SS barrel.

DF

Oh I have managed to shoot an excellent group or two from my 7mm-08. If I warm up the barrel first, and space the shots just right, so the barrel stays about the right temp.

But from a cold barrel, it's going to scatter them. Which makes it pretty useless as a hunting rifle. And the borescope says, "rough barrel"

Ruger Americans have earned a good reputation in a short time, for shooting well. I realize Kimbers have a lot of custom features for the money, but if Ruger can sell $400 rifles that have good barrels...

I agree, and I am too, and more power to all the Kimber guys. Just thinking back though, since I became hooked on big game hunting in 1971, I've never had a cartidge feeding problem from a non-crf design.

Had a Kimber in .204 Ruger and 22LR,if I want a Winchester M70 clone,I'll just buy a Winchester M70 instead.

Those two Kimbers shoot real good,just couldn't warm up to them.

I get it if you couldn't "warm" to them... they are a bit of a mattel-esque rifle in Montana guise... but an M70 can't be made as light.

Really two different rifles...

So,a M70 can't be made as light,doesn't bother me in the least.

This Featherweight 7x57 Mauser weighs just under 8 lbs and that is perfect in my mind.

Take a T3 Lite out of the box, mount a VX3, grab some factory ammo, and do the exact same thing with a Kimber. I'd lay money on which one will perform better.

Once again, I'm all for buying whatever floats a guy's boat no matter the cost. But this Kimber love fest as the Poobah says is really strange. It's almost like "Well I went and bought one, now I have to love it" kind of deals.

JFC.

It's the same comments every time a Kimber comes up. You can't compare a Tikka to a MT. They're not comparable.




Travis

Ingwe to be honest some I've had have been just great...and others have caused head scratching and it was a matter of figuring them out.If I felt like it...


But how hard I have been willing to work on them is likely the real issue.....

I am not as patient with rifles after 40 years of working with them, that I no longer have the patience with the things that I did before. Really....I don't care,I have better things to do with my time than mess with fussy rifles.....(like go fishing during off season or playing with grandkids).... and that applies no matter who makes the rifle,so if they don't do what I want I just get rid of the damned things.


Been years since I've been emotional about rifles and cartridges.I appreciate them but they are just tools.


I'd like (another) Kimber Montana 7/08 for hunting back east here.Not cause i love them, but because they are light.

Nope, not even close.

I consider the Kimber MT a mountain rifle and it suits my style of hunting. They aren't for everyone but it's hard to find a better light rifle for the money. It really doesn't take too much to get them to shoot well.

Edited your post a bit Bob.

Personally I'd not sit in a deer stand with anything but a blued, finely stock rifle. Something to admire passing the time. In that scenario I could care less about what it weigh's within reason.

The raison d'être of the Montana is packing a rifle long distances and up high. Guess that's why they called it "Montana." Shocking.

The Kimber is a specialized tool, not a general purpose one.

There are likely better rifles for most hunting, but there are very few for the Montana's niche.

And blued, wood-stocked rifles that weigh over 7.5lbs ain't one of them.

I agree, the Tikka T3 Super lite has a lot smoother action, a better trigger, and a better barrel.

However the T3 super lite does weigh 8 oz more so if you piss before you hit the mountain you'll weigh the same.

OK....Group Hug!

Shod

They are smooth. Until you put rounds in them.

Trigger? You're smoking bat schit.

If you're gonna drop coin on a quality push feed that comes close to low-weight, it should be on old Sako Foresters.



Travis

They are smooth. Until you put rounds in them.

Trigger? You're smoking bat schit.

If you're gonna drop coin on a quality push feed that comes close to low-weight, it should be on old Sako Foresters.


Travis [/quote]

Well at least I got the barrel part right.

That's pretty good for an Oregonian ya know!

Shod

Kimbers suck, Big time.

And they will continue to suck ginormous,

until I'm holding a lefty.

Discriminatory Racist pricks........

+1 on the Foresters. And a huge +1 for the Nosler 48 Patriot. All the Tikkas I've used over the past 15 years are smooth as silk, feeding cartridges and all.

I'm with Bob here. I have no desire any more to fiddle with a fussy out-of-the-box rifle.

I like the looks of the Kimbers and I generally like their features, especially their weight, and their price. In fact when I built a 340 on a Rem 700 action I had a Sako extractor (I had had a Rem "thumb nail" extractor break on me) and a 3-position safety installed along with a tuned Timney trigger as it was to be an "Alaskan gun." It had a Brown Prec stock and Pach pad -- sort of Kimberesque for a heavy medium at 8.5lbs all up.

I have nothing against the Kimber rifles having never had one; it's a moot point for me as I'm a lefty but this CRF affectation is kind of lost on me. CRF is about as necessary in the "lower 48" as mammary glands on a boar. I won't argue about it as it's been beaten pretty well here and elsewhere. P-Fs have been used successfully everywhere including Africa. It's. It's not that I don't like CRF but neither do I dislike P-Fs.

It's just when it's held up to be a redeeming feature of a rifle and superior to the same with P-F that I wince.

That I can agree with.

For a guy that doesn't like fiddling with rifles, you sure had a lot done to that 340...

As far as CRF, that's not even a factor for me. There still isn't anything that can touch a Kimber Montana. CRF or otherwise.



Travis

Yea, that rifle is just one of the reasons I'm through fiddling.

I'd put a $500 bill on my Tikka 270 and 500 yd groups.

I'd put $1000 on anyone interested in seeing who will top the mountain first and I might even throw on a 20 lb pack just to make it fair.

Shod

For me, a "real" rifle is CRF... I don't pretend that's rational, or that CRF is necessary. It's just my personal bias, pure and simple and I'm very clear on that.

Push Feed rifles are perfectly "adequate."

But no PF feeds as well a "right" CRF... problem is very few CRF's are "right!"

USRAC M70's can be pretty spotty.

A good Mauser chambered in 7x57, etc., can be flatly amazing.

Generally it's just easier for a mfg to make a PF than a CRF action.

After I contacted Kimber in the summer of 2004 and pointed out I thought their feedramp was too steep for good feeding, I was re-contacted and told I was indeed correct, and that by their calculation it was 10* too steep. The ramp was changed on CAD and the design change was slowly implemented after the remaining actions were used up (the old couldn't be re-machined).

If you have an older Kimber (the early 8400 WSM's or early 84M's) you can emery and polish the heck out of the feedramp and it will really help. The WSM's however, because of their case geometry, suffered far worse from the steep ramp than did the 84M's.

Current production Kimbers feed beautifully and I've yet to use any M700 that feeds as well! A 700 is good enough tho.

However, as good as the Kimbers are, nothing beats a pre-64 M70 chambered in a 270 or 30-06!

Well I'm a fan

I don't like to fiddle but anymore but I am Polly Annish and have enough experience with them to believe they will shoot.

For me the attraction is simple. They are like a M70....safety in the same place, operation is the same,stocks intelligently designed and made of good materials.

I do like that it's sort of a CRF because I don't care for plunger ejectors, like a bit more extractor beef on the rim.It mounts a scope low and the stock fits good with a scope.

It's lighter than a M70,so provides a light weight alternative. I like a M70 trigger better but the Kimber trigger will do.

If they chambered it for nothing but a 7/08 it wouldn't bother me at all...the cartridge kills like a 270 and the Kimber is lighter to boot.

What I don't like is that set screw that controls firing pin protrusion but it seems to be not too big an issue. The short action is a meaningless feature to me,but that doesn't mean the 7/08 isn't a good package.

It isn't hard to like.

A response to trigger comments from previous posters...

The Kimber trigger is the best factory trigger on the market today. I've played with every factory adjustable trigger currently on the market. The Kimber wins hands down.

With that being said, I'm still a fan of open triggers. The old Winchester design is still my favorite. Ruger's design isn't far behind if you know how to polish it up.

I'd take a 1-1.5 MOA Kimber over a .5-1 MOA Tikka Uberlanche any day.

Yessir! Anybody who claims the Tikka trigger is better than the Kimber trigger hasn't spent much, if any, time playing with both.

Sweet! You're welcome any time! BTW, what does a $500 bill look like?

Kimber group

I think the proof is in the pudding not on the internet.

Shod

That group will beat my Tikka Jordan, my Tikka routinely will do 3" at 500 yds.

Is that a factory tube on your Montana?

If it is then Yes.....your on.

Shod

Let me guess.

You've never owned a Kimber Montana?



Travis

Bit early to be talkin' to yourself.



Travis

There really has to be something in the water down there.




Travis

Bit early to be talkin' to yourself.

Travis [/quote]

Now hold on pard, I'm not just talking, I'll show up with cash in hand.

I need a reason to get out to Montana anyways and yes Im pretty sure I'd have a sporting chance.

If I loose the $500 in the shooting competition I'll get it back during the climb the mountain test.

Shod

And.............I'm not even drinking......buy I'll do that with you fellas when I get there.

Shod

I've had only one rifle that I couldn't find one thing to tweak or improve. That was my Ed Brown Damara.

My Kimber shot great after fitting a new barrel.

Regarding Tikka, I could post the Fire link of JG's Safari. Check it out.

Each of us has his own experiences which don't negate those of other Fire contributors.

They are what they are...

DF

Ok.

Now listen. Real careful.

Are you ready?

Because posing questions like this to a Texan, is akin to asking them to watch two episodes of Jeopardy. They just can't take it. And seeing you live in Oregon, I don't want you to read this question and start bleeding out your fuggin' ears.

So again, listen careful.

Make your Tikka weigh sub-6lbs, with glass and rings and bases. Then go shoot it for groups. And when you get done shooting it for groups, post how much money you have into it.



Travis

I just made a wicked green tea moonshine concoction, herbal remedy...


I used to think Kimbers sucked ass, but that was 6-7 years ago and the opinion was based purely on internet reports.

Then I bought one, and then another and now I want another one.


Didn't touch my 257 Roberts and it has shot some awesome groups from the bench(out to 400 meters).

Have never shot my 243 from a bench but it does just fine from a bipod or over the hood of a pickup. Currently +200 rounds down the barrel and it hasn't been cleaned(accuracy is still uber) so the barrel quality must be getting better.

It might foul a little more than the factory Sako barrels but certainly not enough to worry about.




If you want a simple, lightweight, blind magazine hunting rifle there is nothing better for the price than a Kimber Montana.

If you prefer plastic, a magazine and maybe touch better accuracy then the obvious choice is Tikka.

I will gladly take your thousand bucks.... your mountain or mine....20lb packs are for chicks, just saying....

I have a Spring break coming up BTW....

Tanner

"If you want a simple, lightweight, blind magazine hunting rifle there is nothing better for the price than a Kimber Montana."

Gotta agree Sam!......Bought an 8400 over a decade ago and it's so damned reliable and accurate.

I bought that rifle after making a wish list of all the features I wanted for a custom build and then discovered the Kimber for half the $$$......added three more since.

No damned floor plates nor box magazines either.

Only dorks watch and hour of Jeopardy.

You don't think I know 20 lb packs are for chicks? I pack a 28lb saw along with another 25 lbs of wedges Axe and falling rigging on coastal ground that's straight up and down with brush so thick you have to saw your way through it for 6 hours a day all year long.

Then on the weekends just for fun I sign up to go fight in the local ultimate fighting competitions. But...I'm not really that touph....I'm only ranked the number seven welterweight in the nation. That might have something to do with the fact that I've never been in the ring with the other fellas yet.

Tanner, I'll take you up on that Mountain climb.

I'll even bring the beer

And Travis can come help us drink the beer.

And bud...it's hard to read someone on the internet so just so you know its all in good fun.

I will take you up on that though and I'm sure it'd be a great time. Probably even make a new friend.

Shod

I will challenge Travis to a good old fashioned beer drinking contest.


Throw in an Indian leg wrestling match.
(no dry humping allowed...)

You know he's going to give you the listen real close speech.....

Then he'll throw in some lame excuse about why dry humping should be allowed.

Shod

Is that what they teach in your schools?

Certainly explains Bart starting a thread about whether he should, or should not, commit to the reading of an entire book.



Travis

Vern, exactly!

Your being a fighter certainly explains why you can't differentiate between 7.5lbs and sub-6lbs.



Travis

I hump. Therefore I am.



Travis

PS- Real beer. None of that Bud Light/Tikka-grade schit.

Its cause fighters isn't that smart.

What I can't figure out though is why any who needs a sub 6 lb rifle to get up the Mountain would challenge someone like myself to a mountain climbing test!

Sheesh, and they say schooling is suppose to make ya more smarter.

Shod

That's what people outside of Texas and Oregon refer to as an "assumption."



Travis

I've been outa school for 33 years. I don't think they teach anything relating to Jeopardy though but I'll check on it. Do you play scrabble at deer camp?

SNORK!


Travis playing scrabble!

That's the truth, Tikka's are ass-ugly!

I'll challenge any one to a game of Jeopardy...Tijuana no condom, 1st one to take penicillin looses

You challenged everyone to a mountain climbing contest, not vice versa... You are the baddest mofo on the internet though, so I guess it makes sense.... #7 welter-weight and #1 Bullschitter...

Tanner

I hereby challenge everyone to a GFY contest.

I just won.

Seriously.

I have never climbed a real mountain or shot a rifle but I did beat up the #6 Welter-weight one time.

No smiley face? Doesn't seem all that friendly.

And you said I'm a bullschiter?

OK Tanner.....You tell me when and what mountain!

Shod

+1. The Kimber trigger smokes the Tikka's.

It's a factory barrel made UBER by Flave precision.

Though if I had said it was a Bartlein you would have believed me and backed out of the arrangement

Sorry buddy, I forgot your smiley face... I promise I'm just funnin'....

I don't know of any mountains and there are none nearby so you're gonna' have to choose... Please no big ones though..

Tanner

Shodd,

I enjoy a GOOD fhuqking laugh,so thanks in advance for the pending humor!

Perhaps wax eloquent and a few extry 1000 words via pictures,to really ring the bell on your Day Hacking/Pecker-Pole Chopping "Adventures". I know...I know,it's a really "tough" Show and pushing the 071 Madill and the Christy Carriage to it's "limits". Laffin'!

Where do you AMAZINGLY stupid fhuqks dream this schit up?!? Say a leetle sumptin' about the sweet "satisfactions" that are your's,in slashing loads that go 50pcs...and if it helps,please do so in Spanish. Re-laffin'!

Now don't let the cat get your tongue,nor the couch your kchunt and PLEASE use as much Imagination and Pretend as you dare,to formulate "excuses" for the "surprising" lack of pictures! Re-re-laffin'!

Sweetheart...you can bullschit the fans,but you can't bullschit the players and kudos on your wanton desires to be THE 12th "man".

Bless your Do Nothing heart,you sappy Day Dreaming Dumbfhuqk!

Just sayin'.

WOW!!!

I have never been invited to a deer camp.

No surprise math, grammar, history, geography, art, and music are omitted from the Texas curriculum.

They must skip straight to isolation and pretend awesome.



Travis

What scope should one mount on an inaccurate Kimber 84M Montana 7mm-08?

6x Leupold with dots.


Or a turret if you're a fancy LR sniper.

The one you want to use.



Travis

Nope.



Dave

I concur with Sammer... it's what resided this fall on my 7-08. Works just fine out to 500 yards.

But light rifles aren't good for LR snipers, I heard.

Boxer, listen ya stupid phugger, I've probably been to prince of whales cutting timber just a time or two for Jim Byron and Bob Hilderbrant before he passed.

Last I heard you was working for Silverbay ya pbugging day wage slugg!

Myself I ain't never worked for that sort cause you see Bob @ Jim only hired the best of the phugging Jypo's. No day wagers allowed! I don't remember seeing you there?



Sincerly
Shod

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ew/1/Kimber_Montana_7_WSM_FS.....#UNREAD

K7man, here's a few scopes I've had on MT's:

2-7x33LR... snapped the pic one morning up high. Was -28*F





6x36LR:



2.5-8x36:



3-9x40 on a WSM:

Shodd,

Must everyone feign their fhuqking "surprise",that "all" your pics are a little too tough to "find"?!?

Ohhhhhhh...it's a real "shocker" too,in that your Imagination and it's fhuqking Pretend,grants you Delusions that you "know" me. EPIC fhuqking humor! In fairness,your taste in men isn't to be slighted and here's to the hilarity of you shooting for the stars!!!

Whatever happened to the "rugged mountains" and "all" that "big" wood?!? PLEASE do not tell me,that it isn't "so"?!?

Now bolster your Imagination and summons even MORE fhuqking Pretend and perhaps muse what sorta "bushel price" you are now currently "enjoying"...in your "hard charging" pursuits?

I'm fhuqking crying I'm laughing sooooooooooooo fhuqking hard! "Congratulations" upon dropping "names" of the two outfits that reliably paid THE least,as your "Trump Card".

NO wonder you can't afford a fhuqking camera!

Laughing!...................


( A STUPID fhuqking Shoddy 'dendum)

WooooHoooooooooo...am MUCH enjoying the notion that your "rugged mountains" are now in Northern Kalifornia and your Imagination and it's Pretend,grants you Delusions that I've never cut for PL.

Jeezus Fhuqking Gawwd your WannaBeTitude is offa THE fhuqking charts!

Looking forward to even more camera "excuses",as you Judy Chop the mirror in wellfounded angst.

Laughing!...................


LOVING this quote,from THE Day Dreaming Do Nothing Dumbfhuqk:

"You don't think I know 20 lb packs are for chicks? I pack a 28lb saw along with another 25 lbs of wedges Axe and falling rigging on coastal ground that's straight up and down with brush so thick you have to saw your way through it for 6 hours a day all year long."


WOOT...now it's 34 a Bushel in 1500bd "trees"?!?

LAUGHING!!!!!!!

Hey, now. If someone wants to tote an extra heavy rifle up the hill with a 2nd rate trigger to boot, I reckon we should let him. That means more Kimbers for ME.

For conversation, I own both in 7-08. I made a dummy round with a 162 Amax that kissed the lands of the Tikka. It was a full .2fucking5" longer than the mag allows.

The Tikka's for sale, by the way.

Good grief,what's next,glow in the dark rubbers and a "sword" fight.

While not surprised.. , I would be happy to have another pack mule in my deer camp. I can't spell, speak, and won't know exactly where we are though. I do kill lots of stuff though so I could use some help.

Brad, nice rifles, love the pics.

Thanks JG, one more:

You're not as funny as Deflave....

So what.

Kimber 84L 270 Win...

"Dumbphouc for $500 Alex."

"I believe 7.5 is the equivalent of, or lesser than 5.7."

"What is a Texan?"

"Correct."



Clark

Dear Stick, if'n you'd ever been to the northern California Coast then you'd know all about the choppin price there wouldn't ya. Oh, that's right! Phuggin hard charger like yourself ain't never been there!

Git her chunt off the couch and come find out for yourself.

OK...I'll tell you what you don't phuggin know since you've never been there. The price is $34 a thousand in timber averaging around 1500 board ft a tree. (Limited Buck)

If you can't make a thousand dollar bill a day don't bother showing up.

Would ya like a name and number to call?

I could just post a phuggin pic but that wouldn't make it so would it?

Shod

Is that a "no" then?

So you're Carlos Condit? I thought you were fighting out of NM?

Only other fellas I see ranked around #7 are Jake Shields and Matt Brown.

I'm fighting amateur not pro

Shod

http://www.iscfmma.com/ISCFAMRankings.htm

You suck...

Well yeah.

That rifle looks small.

I would love to join you.

I'll bring the Tikka so I can fit in.



Travis

I am not taking any sides here, but I just read through all 20 pages and must ask, if 2# makes or breaks a rifle, what happens when you shoot an animal? Does 2# in a rifle really matter when packing out 250#+ of elk meat? Do you shoot the smallest animal possible so it is easier to carry/drag out?

Adrenalin....

Have you ever been backpack elk or sheep hunting in the Rocky Mountains or elsewhere?

I usually make a beeline for the truck when I've got a pack full of meat. Not so when I'm scouring the hills and Rockies looking for critters...

Nope an extra 5 or even 10 pounds on my back has never made or broke a hunt.

That said if you have the option leave an extra 2# at home why would you opt to take it anyway?

No. That is why I am asking. I have never hunted west of Kentucky.

When you are counting ounces, a couple of pounds makes a difference. My daypack weighs 20-30 lbs., normally. Those mountains seem to be getting steeper these days.

2# in a pack, or 1# in a slung rifle don't make much difference especially on the flats.

I had a T3 Superlight and it was nice to carry on flatland or rolling hills. But when hunting coastal brush, you can't carry it slung so its in your hand. That 1# difference in weight and slim stock (blind mag) make a huge difference with the Kimber. The coastal hills aren't that tall, but dang near vertical in many places with vines that grab your ankles, booby-traps in the ferns, slickery blow-down, prickly things, and loose ground.

The Tikka is fine, but I find the 84M a lot easier to carry in those conditions.

For the record, I had five Tikklers before getting an 84M and suffered "Kimber Denial" for years telling myself that Tikklers are almost as light, cost less, Kimber Roulette, etc.

I have zero interest in owning another Tikka, but understand why some people like them.

Gothcya.

Reality is a funny thing and is different from cognition in front of a computer screen.

What I've found is an extra 1-lb of rifle is about like an additional 5+ lbs on my back in a pack. Not all "pounds" feel the same.

Thing is, a rifle is carried at odd, differing, and irregular positions.

The weight in a pack, if it's loaded and carried correctly, goes right to your hips, and conversely, your legs.

A rifle is a more dynamic burden, carried in a huge variety of positions, hence its weight is experienced "differently."

That's why I asked if you'd done any backpack hunting... like the old preacher said, it's one of those "better felt than telt" kind of things (aka, if you have to ask you wouldn't understand)...

I hear the bulllchit comment, "just lose an additional 5 lbs off your waist" all the time. That's usually offered by those without a solitary clue.

Frankly, I don't have one spare pound to lose. Really. I'm in as good a shape as anyone at age 53 can be, and my friends refer to me as a "genetic freak." Ie, I can walk most people half my age into the ground.

But that doesn't change the fact I'd always rather carry a 6.5 lb rifle than an 8lb rifle.

So maybe there's something to a light rifle

Yup, rifle weight matters... like hell it matters.

I'll carry a rifle in my hand 90% of the time when hiking/hunting the rough little breaks around here.

An extra pound or two that way makes a very noticeable difference.

Thing about carrying a rifle as has been said is if its strapped to the middle of a good pack which has had some thought put to it in its making, and centres the weight perfectly to your spine holding the force low down on your hips. A really good pack makes weight seem to disappear some. But when still hunting quietly slipping along in good game areas my rifle lives on my shoulder not in line with my back. And that bit of weight torqueing away all day trying to drop your shoulder off line all the time starts to get noticed and noticed a lot in steep ugly ground which there's no shortage of here. To me that's where a light or ultra light rifle makes the day a lot more enjoyable and my back is thankful.

Shodd offered up a $1,000.00 challenge...

LOL, bring it on.

I'm not sure how this turned into a Kimber vs Tikka thread, but I have three Montana's (.223, .308, .300WSM) and two Tikka T3 Super-Lites (.223 and .22-250) and each has their pluses and minuses, but I like them all.

One thing I can't figure out about Kimber is, their stainless steel sucks and is more prone to rust than any rifle I've ever owned, including blued/walnut.

Agreed... that's because of the higher CM content. Not a bad thing, but it is what it is.

FWIW, Rugers are the most "rust resistant" rifles, but smith's hate to work on them because they're so "hard."

There's no free lunch when it comes to SS, and ever maker makes that compromise slightly differently...

There are definitely times when I'd rather have an 8-lb-something rifle than a 6.5 lb. rifle.

Like after all the walking is done, I have to make a long shot, and the rifle is in position laying across my pack and I'm just about to pull the trigger. For everything before that, I'll go 6.5.

And I'm not even an MMA fighter, mountain climber, or genetic freak.

That's the way I see it too.

Jordan;
Good evening to you sir, hopefully the weekend treated you and yours well and you're ready for the upcoming week.

So as not to drag this too far off the trail we're on - I've cometo believe that unless one has habitually hunts mountains it's tough to understand some of the fascination with weight those that do seem to have.

As you said too, when the pack is full of meat we take the straightest AND least dangerous route to the crummy. Speaking of loaded packs and pickups, I snapped this photo one morning coming down from a little few hour jaunt. We always laugh how good whatever pickup we've parked in some skidder landing looks.


For me and my personal experience, you, Brad, Sam and Salty all articulated why I prefer a rifle that's closer to 7lbs than 9lbs.

It wasn't always that way Jordan, but I do clearly recall the afternoon I quit taking "little walks" with my Ruger No. 1.

I was in my late 40's then and as you know I'm not a giant by any stretch and never have been which might be a factor too, but anyway that rifle felt like lead in my hands and there was no comfortable way to carry it anymore. It's different weight somehow isn't it?

Oh lastly those that know me here can attest that I really don't have 10 lbs to lose or even 5 likely so that's not the answer in my semi-old guy's instance.

All the best to you and the rest of our 'Fire friends in the upcoming week Jordan.

Dwayne

I guess I don't comprehend the rifle weight thing being a timber faller. My saw is in the neighborhood of 25 lbs and it gets packed 6 hours a day on steep ground all week in my hands and it doesn't have a sling. Packing a 7 1/2 lb rifle ready to hunt is almost not noticeable. I know a very large number of fellas well into there 50s that do the same thing.

Shod

Great photograph, thanks for posting.

Pieter

If you can believe it, Kimber charges less than $450 for a replacement Montana stock.

7 1/2 lbs is as you say almost not noticeable. As long as it's the only thing you're carrying.

Given the choice to carry a 25 pound saw and a 25% heavier 31 pound saw, which one would you choose if you had a choice?

Same thing with a rifle for me, if given the CHOICE between a 6 pound rifle and a 25% heavier 7.5 pound rifle I will pick the lighter one everytime. Sure you can carry the heavier choices no doubt, but why if you can choose?

Inevitably, the conversation goes like this:

"My gun cost less and shoots really well."

"It's almost as light."

"I work out."

"The Kimber Montana should not exist."




Travis

Shod;
Good morning to you sir, hopefully this finds you well and keeping dry enough on this foggy, soggy morning.

One of the things I've learned over the years - albeit slowly I'll admit, but I'm trying to do better - is that as humans we're far from being created equally. This includes our physical capabilities along with mental and spiritual components too of course, but we'll deal with the first two and leave the third one for the main forum.

Anyway in my experience to remain in your line of work an individual will of necessity have physical conditioning and attributes that will exceed at least 95% of other people in your age group. I hasten to add there's no research numbers I can base that on - just living in BC for the last 31 years and personal observation.

As well, the aging process is a rather sneaky one for many of us that had "colorful youth" phases. What I mean by that is that some days the car, horse and motorcycle wrecks don't have an effect on what I can accomplish physically and nowadays sometimes they do.

When I was in my '30's I still had the ability to mentally push my body into places it didn't want to go and could make it do things that it just doesn't do any longer in my early '50's.

Some folks don't have this happen until their 60's and some have it happen in their 40's, but again based upon personal observation it happens to about 99% of us.

When I answer anything here at the 'Fire then, I'm going to try to temper my answer with the knowledge that we're not all created equally and neither have the sum of our life experiences been the same. Hopefully that makes sense?

Long, long ago I was wrestling with a heavy task repairing a piece of farm equipment and my brother who is larger and 9 years older commented, "God didn't make you very big Dwayne, lets hope He made you smart" and then he proceeded to show me how to use mechanical means to assist my task.

For me, speaking personally as a hunter who turns 53 this year and is 5'6" on a tall day - a 7½ lb rifle does feel better than a 9 lb one and especially so after 6 or 8 hours on the mountain.

Again hopefully that makes sense Shod and gives a better perspective on my answers, etc. All the best to you in the upcoming week and do stay safe up there.

Dwayne

Favorite place to chase mulies photo added just because.

Very true. I even painted one of mine with rattle cans to try and improve on the ugly. Damn thing shoots, though. I carried it up and down sevral mountains this past Fall.

With that said, you azzholes about have me convinced to play the fuggin' Kimber lottery one more time. Maybe I will try a .308 this time since it seems tougher to fugg that chambering up.

About got me convinced to challenge Shodd to a fight, too. Right after he hikes the mountain faster, and shoots his Tikker straighter than anyone on the 'Fire with a Kimber...

This thread is an uber read.

Deernut,
Personally I kind of like doing a little minor tweaking on a rifle so Kimbers or any other rifle don't put me off if a little massaging is in order. Same reason I don't shoot factory loads.
You might be pleasantly surprised with Kimber roulette.
Best of luck!

Agreed. I really like playing with rifles and developing loads.

BUT

I don't like spending 1K+ on a rifle, and then have to re-barrel the thing. Having to do so on a $5-600 new or even used rifle is not really an issue. I guess I expect a ~$1100 rifle to shoot out of the box better than a Remington, Winchester, or even a Tikker would. That was not my last experience with a Kimber. Probably should have kept the thing, but it pizzed me off.

I will say that there always seems to be somebody that will take a Kimber off your hands for close to what you paid for it new.

I spoke to Melvin Forbes over the weekend and have been considering an order. But, I've seen some nasty stuff on NULAs lately. Of course, Melvin does not compare the NULAs to his hand-made guns...

Anywho....'Flave and others are right; a Montana is a deal if it shoots with a little tinkering.

The NULA's are Melvin's handmade guns. The Forbes Rifles are the production guns that seem to be having growing pains.

'Nut,
The NULA is Melvin's hand made gun. The Forbes rifle is not.

I'd rather spend $1500 to buy and rebarrel a Kimber if that's what it took. Thats just my preference.

As Steelhead once said, you only have yourself to keep happy.

Brad, there's no doubt if Kimber had rolled out some lefties I'd have one or would have had one.

Yea, I got 'em backwards. I fondled both. Trying to figure out if I should try a Forbes or give Kimber another shot.

It would have saved me plenty of scratch. I sure do like my NULA guns but probably would have been gunning Kimber's now.

Hoping some of you Kimber guys can help me out.

I just received my first Kimber Montana a 223 and it is my first CRF rifle.

When I close the bolt on an empty chamber the bolt gets fairly tight the farther I close it. Not effecting function but theres some noticeable resistance on the last 1/3 of closing the bolt.

Now what could be causing this? Is this just the CRF locking up tight or something with the bolt lugs and what can I do about it?

I appreciate it thanks

Might be a good idea to start a separate thread. Think you will get more info that way.

Pieter

Yea, it's kind of aggravating to go to the bakery and they'll only sell you white Wonderbread while the other guys are buying donuts, sweet rolls, and multigrain bread.

Closing the bolt on a CRF shouldn't feel any different than closing the bolt on a PF.



Travis

There is a set screw on the under side of the bolt that may have backed out. Pull the bolt and tighten screw with an allen wrench. This happened to my 708

Tag for load info

How I fixed my Kimber...which I now call "Kimnor"

Great post, very true.

This thread is hilarious.

Kimbers are the chit

What he said!

Co worker took his antelope at 320-yards with his new Kimber in 7-08. Can't believe the piece of junk even fired.....

7 lb rusty Remington 700 ADL that shoots 1" @ 100

6 lb any Kimber that shoots 2" @ 100

Easy choice

Getting to be about that time to see pics of dead animals with inaccurate Kimber Montana 7mm-08's...

I hope to shoot a buck deer with a 270 Montana here in a couple weeks. Bought the rifle from Darrik(Whittaker) earlier this year.

Way better than ANY Tikka.......

It started life as a 7-08. But it still managed to get this bull. Miracle, I know!

Ube.

Do 308's count?

Thats a nice Bull Brad!!!

Thx, 7x7... hard to tell from the photo.

Brad,
Nicely done! 165?

165 Speer HC.

Aside from the obvious, dead elk, how did the HC perform? The 200s (.338) are on my list to try next year.

tag

Speer HC is my favorite "non-premium" bullet. Worked great.

Is the geometry on the wood stock the same as the montana stock? For example the 84L select and a 84 montana

Nice bull. What scope?

I'm no Kimber nut, but I am interested. Can someone explain why the Montana 7-08 is not listed on their website? Is it discontinued?

Si. Discontinued.

David

Well seriously consider the .308 instead. Its a perfect package with the 84M setup.
A guy could hunt a wide range of big game and not be wanting for anything else.
Unless you are a rifle looney......................

There is a Montana 7-08 on Gunbroker right now.

Nice elk, hope all is well.

Congratulations.

The reality is that the Remington scoped will be 8 lbs and the Kimber still 6 lbs. Accuracy will likely be 1.5 for the Kimber at 100 yards.

Yes, easy choice!