In terms of recoil, drop, drift, ass, velocity, yada, yada. I figure you gain in one spot, you lose in another.

I'm at 260/123's.......

What say the masses?

270 / 130's. The classic western load.
264 WM / 140's. A bit more performance for little or no increased recoil.

There's a bunch that come to mind, but I'm going to settle on the 260/130...8 twist. To me, it gives the most for the least compromises.

Tough choice.. Maybe my .270, but that is something I am not worrying about..

70's in .22

W

6.5 Grendel loaded to bolt action pressures with 123 grainers.

Totally un-biased opinion here but it would be the 6.5x54 m/s with a 140 to 160 gr bullet.

It has a fair history of game taken throughout it's career.

.30/06 and 180 gr Nosler Partition.

400 Whelen. A 400 grain bullet at 2150 fps. The most whomp for the dollar from an 06 case. And still hittable at 300 yards.

That was my first thought, but then thought about the 270 win and 130 gr. pills.... Hmmmm..

22 LR

Gotta be the Hornet. 40 VMax at 3000 fps with less than 13 grains of Lil Gun.

708 w/162's might be hard to beat. A 270 with 130's is pretty close to a 260 with 130's and 1/3 the powder.

Either one will work.

Some are missing the part about least. No way a o6 hull full of powder pushing a 180 grain bullet with a low bc is even in the running.

Now that doesn't mean it's not a fantastic chambering and load that's more than capable of doing more than most of us will ever do.

I'm pretty pleased with the 6 creed right now with 105's. For where I live and deer size game it should be pretty efficient in the most least running.

Nope,killed this Red Hartebeest at around 350 yds with a .30/06 and a 180 gr Nosler Partition.

It's not the bc that kills,it's the bullet penetrating to the vital organs and expanding while doing so.

7mm-08 with 140s.



P

Be honest... Are you Ingwe's brother????

Maybe....

Ofcourse bc doesn't kill a good shot through vitals does. I'd expect that o6 180 load to kill everything!! I said it was a great chambering.

The topic was most for the least. BC is a advantage just like a good scope trigger or steady rest. All can be advantages but none the end all be all.

He has the brains,I got the dashing good looks.

223AI with 75's.

BC for me,is a meaningless number. I want a bullet to do the "job" it is supposed to do,penetrate and expand. It's my part to place it correctly.

I wouldn't say meaningless, but physics is what I was thinking more about. 6BR and 105's could go on the list too.

This was my thought, but I would also consider the 7-08 with 120s.

donsm70

My vote is a .270 or a 7mm/08.

In all reality, it'd be hard to beat the .243

The Bob with a premium 100gr bullet.

7mm-08 of course............with 140 gr. Partitions for pure killing efficiency. For longer range use, the 162 gr. Amax. But, I'm just playing favorites........

.7-08 and 140's....

.243 with 105's....

.223 with 75's....

In that order.

I'm looking to try the 150 ScenarL in my 7-08. Might be a great all around one.

308/165

My pick is the 280 Ackley for all the reasons Jarrett stated on his web page.

Me too, except 162 or 168 for the 7mm-08.

I know nothing on the .260 Rem as I don't own one, or the 6.5 CM. However looking at the data on several sites, the CM does the same with the 123 as the .260 but with less powder. Both are pushing the same weight bullet to nearly 3000 fps.

22-250 and the 75 A-Max.


Travis

i think you may be on to something, , , ,

ked

250-3000 with an 87 grainer in a Mdl 99. Giant slayer.

6.5 SAUM with a 130 JLK.

I learned some important lessons on the last two "ammunition runs". First, its a great way / excuse for manufactures to raise the price of product. Remember when a tray of primers use to cost $1.99?

Second, never have a "favorite" caliber. There were days I couldn't find powder so reloading was not an option. Purchasing factory ammo was like playing the lottery; which caliber were they going to have today?

There were days I couldn't find 30-06 or 270 but hey there is a box of 300W$M and one for the 6.5x55 SM. Carry as many calibers as you can afford.

"What cartridge / bullet combo has the most for least?"

It depends on what you value most. There is no one right answer as it is a subjective opinion.

Least recoil goes to my Remington Model 24 that I inherited from Granddad. It shoots .22 Shorts.

Velocity goes to my .22-250, which hits over 4,000fps.

Least drift probably goes to my 7mm RM.

Least drop is probably the 7mm RM as well.

Best ass, don't know but for sure it isn't on one of my rifles...

You're very close. The 6.5 Jap is the real deal.

Closely followed by the 22 Jet.

Everyone else is WAY off base.

I was thinking along the lines of best balance, everything is a pile of concessions in one way it another.

223 with 75's
243 with 105's
260 with 120-130's
708 with 162's


The more I shoot my 243 with 105's the more the other stuff collects dust

BC: which 105s?

Hornady 105 BTHP


I've thought about buying some Booger 105's to try but I've not done it yet.

For deer, I've pretty much settled on 120's at 2900-3000. Could be 257, AI, or 25/06. No doubt 260 or Creed would be about the same.

Do they work with a 10" twist?

Not sure on the 10 twist, mine is a Rem 1/9.125".

My other 243 rifle is a Savage with a 1/10 twist that when you measure it is actually a 1/11 twist and it won't handle a 100 BTSP.

+1

No.

I LIKE the way you think! ! ! It's not as confining, aka restricting.

OR 6mm Rem, that in terms of "the most for least". The 6mms are NOT my favorite above all ( I have less 6s than other carts/cals)
but they do a lot for their size.

They worked outta the Tikka ten twist at 5000'.... but when the gun/loads got back to Commiefornia they wouldn't stay on paper.

I'm with 'bore.... .260/Creed/x47 is super efficient, hits hard enough for all my big game pursuits, and is easy to shoot all day.

123/.540/2950 is a pretty bad ass box score for only 40-45 grains of go fast.

Well, the 270 with 130gr NPs is tough to surpass.
The 6.5x284 with 130gr. ABs is up there.
I just started playing with a 257 Bob, so it may end up with top honors if it likes the 110gr ABs.
Tim

+1 It depends on conditions, barrel dimensions, and speed. I've had the 105AM shoot great out of 10" twist tubes, which is even longer than the HPBT...

Makes a 260AI (gulp) tempting. Can't believe I said that....

Yup x's 2.

I find the 7-08 vs 260 comparison interesting. The 260 140 grain Berger has a BC of .615. You have to go to a 168 grain in 7-08 to better that (.617). Given equal pressures, the 260/140 gives about 100 fps more out of equal barrels. Hardly a big advantage, but it seems that hitting over long distances gives the 260 a slight advantage. Considering recoil, a larger advantage. Thus the reason you see the 260 in competition and not the 7-08. The 260 is a pet of mine, but it seems that apples-to-apples, the 260 gives more for less. In addition, no animal that I would shoot with a 7-08 on purpose, could not be taken cleanly with a 260.

Anybody want to argue?

A 162 grain AMax in .284 is .625 BC, 2700 is very reasonable. The 260 which I have and shoot more than most any of my rifles, is in that velocity ball park with 140 grainers, which are a little lower BC.

Ain't any real difference.

Lots of ways to define most for least thus impossible to answer. I would suggest the good old trusty 30-30

A capable rifle for even larger game animals

Range adequate for 90+ % of shots one is likely to encounter.

Reloading is helped by lower pressures, gives 80-85% of most large 30's using approx 50% of powder

Factory ammo is probably the cheapest centerfire rifle ammo around with possibles exception of 223

6.5x68S or the 6.5x284 Norma

I would say anything in the 308 based case will give the most for the least. Where else can you get that kind of performance with 40 ish grains of powder.

Shod

I think you've got a good point even though I favor the 7mm-08 and 162.

In the Precision Rifle Series, the 6mm and 6.5mm chamberings are popular with few if any 7mm-08 being used. Maybe the 7mm-08 has less "inherent accuracy" but my guess is that recoil has something to do with it.

Not sure I buy the 100 fps advantage with the 260 vs the 7-08 though. I think they are probably close enough to be a wash. The 7mm-08 does have the advantage in bullet weight, but with the added recoil. Two peas in a pod really.

Back to the PRS, in 2014 the 6mm Creedmoor was the most popular with competitors and the top 3 averaging cartridges were all 6mm per PRSblog... 6x47, 6XC, & 6mm Creed. The 6.5mm chamberings were close but the .260 wasn't as popular as the 6.5x47 or 6.5mm Creed. Indian or the arrow? We know the Indian has a lot to do with the results, but I find it interesting that the 6mm has become so popular with the PRS guys.

The 243 with 105 (or 6mm Creed, etc), 260 with 123 or 140 (or 6.5 Creed, etc), and 7mm-08 with 162 or 168 all seem to offer the most for the least. Just need to juggle the trade-offs... bullet mass, barrel life, and recoil.

A better question might be, "What gives more for less compared to the 6mm/6.5mm/7mm short actions?" Assuming relatively light hunting rifles, not chunks.

Jason

I will add the 9.3x62

I'd also like to vote for the .223 and the 50gr V-Max.

Seems to have much longer legs than one would think.




Travis

The B-29 outdoes them all, by a long margin.

CCI Mini-mag 36gr HP

6.5x55 Swede with 140 partition.

Seems you can go 108's and make a 260 close to 243/105's and 140's and be in the 7-08/162 ball park.

I don't think there's more ass out of a 308 based case than a 162 Amax.

The short action 6.5mm and 7mm stuff is impressive. Nosler's online load data now shows the 129gr LRAB at nearly 3,050fps in the .260Rem with 45 grains of RL17. That's a 26" barrel, but still...

If I could choose a two-gun most for the lest pair... it'd definitely be .22-250/75s for fun, and 7-08/162s for killin'...

For one-gun most for the least... it's still the .260/123s...

I think MM has the 208s/215s rolling 2550-2600 in his .308s... that's a whole lotta ass outta a .308 case too...

For like the 5th, or 6th time.....7mm-08, 140's.

For the 8th time... you're wrong....

.260 will do what the 7/08 will do with 140's... simply by virtue of superior bullets alone... thereby being more for less... which is the point after-all. A discernible difference in "ass" can be seen when you step up to the 162/168 in the 7/08... though drift is a wash and recoil is increased... making it the only high Spade in the 7/08' hand... though it very well could be the Ace.

I am really enjoying the 243AI and 105's, look forward to the 6x47L in the works. The AI is averaging 3075 out of a 22" barrel and in the lands.

Have a 260 planned but I am somewhat thinking about a 6.5x47 and 120-140's but don't think it will do anything better than the 243AI.

9.3x62 AI

But only in a fancy Ruger!

We all KNOW the bullets you cite only work on paper... Moot point... Grin...

While I haven't crunched numbers.... A150 Skinner/7-08 combo seems like tits too.

A page ago I said anything in a 308 based case. Why does this thread continue? Does anyone around here listen?

Shod

Hmmm, 22-243AI stuffed with Amax's?

55gr CoreLoxs and 1:14 twist and you're there....

108 Scenars are so close only your barber will know the difference.

.223 Rem. Cheap brass. Cheap bullets and efficient. If tight twisted, can work well on medium game.

16B,

How fast can you push those 108's in a 260?

We know a 105 can get close to 3000 fps from a 243 for comparison. The HPBT has a .530 G1; the Hybrid is 0.547. A 105 Hybrid at 3000 fps seems like a lot for little if you can bear a Burger

Jason

270 win with 130 at 3200 fps.

I put over 1000 rounds thru my 223 RAR in the past few months, mostly out to 500+ yards. Been using the 75gr AMAX at a measly 2900 fps. Not a ton of rounds, but I think I've learned more with that cheap 223 than all my other rifles combined. Amazing for such a low round count.

Shooting in wind with minimal recoil has been a great learning tool. I've seen a bud make some great shots with the same rifle, after struggling with more recoil from more "manly cartridges" at half the distance. Trigger time and round count make up for speed and BC to provide a path to shooting skill.

I've been late to the 223 & 75 AMAX party so might be preaching to the choir

As much as I love the 270/130 combo...I'm gonna roll with 8x57/200gr...

3,097 FPS so far with RL-15





Same here, except its a Tikker....

Although I did get swooned by a RAR 17 Hummer that'll get SWFA'ed. Load development should be cake.....

Looking forward to your thoughts on that RAR 17 and Super Bird combo. If it can fill the gap between 22lr and 223 beyond 200-300y I'd have to get one. 223 is going to wear out my reloading gear

Are you going elevated rail?

Nah, should be plenty of turret/dots to reach 500. Wind will be a whore though. I was monkeying with SWFA - 10/22 chunk, but at 10+ lbs it was pretty much useless for anything other than bench time. Dropped it back into a Hogue and stole the 16" .920 tube off my daughters rig. Threw some new fangled Redfield tacticool scope on and Talleys and shaved it to 7#. Might go aluminum Tactical Solution tube down the road.

Chunk parts and rail coming to the classifieds soon..

Who cares 16?? All you do is dream and live vicariously...

Run whatcha bring... hint.....

I smell gravy....

Just took a 10/22 out of a heavy KKC Frankendork and put it in a Hogue to make it more handy-dandy this past weekend.

I've had a couple TS pistol barrels but I'm pretty sure they are still using an Alu breech on all barrels. Check out the Kidd lightweight barrels. They have a steel breech face. I'll probably try one soon. I've been impressed with the Kidd trigger and other parts.

bud has one with a can that's an interesting unit.

You smell a do nothin worthless phuqing Clint, like yourself. Keep doing nothing, as always, your doing grate!! Daddy will save you soon.....

Keep that pack f2f or your " hard charging ways... it is funny....

You're funny....

No I'm a hunter, obviously.....

16, you try waaaaay too hard, hint... buy a 30/06,come out west and kill some stuff... re hint...

I've done way too much with a 22 LR.

From livestock, wild animals, to steel at 200 yards with a wheelgun....

But if pressed, a 44 or 45 caliber handgun with simple cast bullets north of 200 grains probably has covered more ground if the shooter can apply it.

a 17 Hornet is pretty damn thrifty. 3650 with 20 grainers and 700+ rounds per pound of powder.....

It's fairly funny, this day and an age somebody would want more for less.....

22 magnum with it's great bc' s is a giant killer

I had a 25-06 for a while and it seemed to put deer down impressively with not much recoil.

Oh yea Bore... das da ticket a .260Ack 8"twist loaded UBER !!! ScottyO.

243 Winchester
6.5 Creedmore
260 Remington
Think these three get you the most for least.
7-08 is in there also.

Don't know about the 108, but the 6.5/123 Skinner has the BC to match the 6mm/105 Hyb (both around .540)... and most 22"+ barreled .260's will clock 2900-3000 with 123s. Em's CTR is running them at 2850 in a 20" barrel with only 39 grains of 4064... that's pretty efficient.

Dope for my 23" .260 running 123 Amax was almost identical in both drop and drift with dope from the 24" .243 running 105 Amax. But, there's a definitely a difference on impact... the 6.5 123 hits noticeably harder and flings goo further.

I can see how PRS type guys gravitate toward the 6mm's... as it's simply about making hits, and a lot of them, over the course of a day or two. They don't have to knock anything down... or chase a plate for miles after a close "miss". Steel ain't tough to kill...

Most for least? Definitely anything based on the Hornet case. Anything from cast lead plinker/small game loads to full snot varmint scratchers, they can be loaded for a ridiculously small percentage of anything else. If deer-size game were thrown into the mix, then a .223 would get the nod. Again with a crazy selection of bullets from cast bullet plinkers up to heavy weight game killers- what's not to like? Moving up to heavier game, then the arguments really get interesting.

Humdinger...

Enabler....

Looks good 16B. That rail is strange looking though. Is it hanging off the back and can you spread the rings, or no?

Daisy red rider and a cartridge of copper looking critters I think it was 500? The vackum would have a better count.

Almost looks like the rail is backwards, and as a result the rings have to be super tight together. Not ideal.

Too funny, there is a 10/22 25moa rail sitting on the shelf behind it. Rings are as far apart as they can go. I'll see how it goes as is. Should be plenty of reach with the dial and dots though.

That explains! Looking forward to your shooting report. Hopefully you can stretch its legs a little.

Hah, the optical illusion got me, too! I'm betting the rig shoots, despite the ring spacing

6BR

Or 6-47 Lapua

I think it would be .270 130 grain as it would do everything from gophers to elk with the right construction.

Most for the least?

About a decade ago, you can look it up, I got hold of a software package at work. It was a super-duper Optimizer add-on for Excel called Evolver. They wanted me to test it out. I got the bright idea of downloading a large part of Hodgdon's reloading database and then asked the Optimizer to basically find the best bang for the least amount of recoil.

One of the problems was what measurement of "bang" was best for my needs. I used a version of the Taylor TKO that favored sectional density called the Bekker KOV, The important feature of this experiment was that I took all the MAX load and then let the Optimizer take up to 8% of the MAX in doing its calculations, much like any reloader would.

The results were interesting:

Eeeets Alive Pt I

Eeeets Alive Pt II

Based on what I found, I did not mean to send everyone out to buy a .280 REM, or for that matter the 6.5X55 Swede. Rather, it suggested to me:



It also bolstered my belief that slightly-off-MAX loads deliver a lot of punch with much less recoil.

Physics, statistics, and Excel is how this mess got started. Every combination has its own set of concessions and the importance (or lack of) is up to the guy yanking the trigger. Across the SA chamberings, 260 won for ME everytime, and 7 RM is my thumper of choice. Albeit it the newbie in the rack and will probably see the least use. But 162 Amax at 3,000 FPS does give some warm and fuzzy....

The .260 has to be a strong contender.

That said, while the .308 probably is not the best in any single category, Every game animal I have hunted, from coyotes to elk seems to tip over dead.

For an all around practical rig, a lightweight .308 with a high quality piece of glass and good sling is really hard to beat from my experience.

9.3x62 topped off with a 250 grn TTSX loaded to 60k

On the contrary I don't believe 16 tries to hard at anything. This schit comes easy to folks like 16.

Are you here to take notes apply same and learn...........Hint.....or is simply grabbing the 30/06 your only move.....Re-Hint

Please tell us all about the one rifle you've always had....all the places you've almost taken it......

Thank you for the vagina monolog you've provided us with and we feverishly await your next installment of how to lick windows while applying vagisil.

Please we are laughing so hard right now!

Wow+P+

How'd I do?

Shod

I'm surprised more people aren't thinking like this - with recoil involved per the OP. I'm thinking something like this or a 22br w/ 77s/6br w/ 105s.

280 Remington and the 150 Partition.
Here is why:
+ more than good enough for what most of us do (heck it is just an improvement on the 270 AND the 30-06)
+ most folks can handle the recoil
+ allows you to argue with your 7x57 friends
+ allows you to argue with your 260 and 7-08 friends
+ allows you to ignore your 270 friends
+ Federal offers it in factory ammo and has for years (are they on to something?)
+ allows you to win the bullet weight argument with the < 270 crowd
+ for the >= 30 caliber friends, you just ask them what are they compensating for?

There isn't a gnats ass worth of difference between 150 Partitions in a 270,280, or 30-06. Difference would be what else you could run in those chamberings.

I have another vote...

If you're killing vermin from 50-250ish, nothing gives you more for less than the .17 Remington.




Travis

lol

Inside 150 yards I vote for a .45-70 pushing a 350g hardcast to 1091fps using 13.5g HS-6. 935fpe at the muzzle, 937fps/683fpe at 150 yards.

Accurate as hell in my rifle and penetrates 12 water jugs.

I need to try an appropriate similar recipe in my 444...

^ this with a 115gr Partition.

That was my thought progression as well. There isn't much that can't be done well with a .30-06 and 180NP's. And then I thought that a .270 with 130 or 150NP's would also handle about anything that wasn't dangerous.

Its tough to pick one, but the .257 'Bee and .264 Win mag sure seem to pack in a lot of killing power and flat trajectory for a very little recoil. Another would be the .270 Win.

.22 RF

gmdr.com and the Oregon Trail Cowboy Data is your friend.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

To see the load data, click on the .444 bullet weight you want to use.

Note that the data is for Oregon Trail bullets.

Years ago I chose the 7x57AI for my hunting rifle. I get 280 velocity out of a 57mm case and 3050fps w/a 140gr bullet. I can shoot the 150gr 2900+ and it has never let me down. It really is for me the most bang for your buck. powdr

In terms of big game I agree whole heartedly with the very efficient Grendel in a bolt action despite not having one yet.

Six mm Remington is nothing to sneeze at either with a wide range of bullets. The Six MM Rem has been my favorite rifle for the majority of my hunting life 100 grain BTHP stand out in my mind.
When thinking of varmints I may think of terms of a 17 hornet up to 25 grains inside of 200 yards. Truth be told I prefer the 17 Fireball with 25 and or 30 grain hollow points. Either one pack way more punch than you think they should. With the velocity those little 17's produce the wind drift can be very manageable.

Spent a quit a few years primarily interested in archery hunting. Still work in that school of thought a lot. What I mean by that is the hunting sport for me is a whole lot less about how far a shot I can make. No for me Hunting is more about how close I can present the opportunity for the shot.

Depending on the game you are after and the terrane you are hunting the definition of close can vary widely.

In each class:

22 lr, 40 gr
223/5.56, M855
6.5 creedmoor, ?
308 win, 168 gr
338/06, 225 gr
9.3x62, 286 gr
458 win mag, 450 gr

.22 Short

Granddad's old (1931) Remington Model 24 (J.M. Browning's semi-auto take-down design) is qery good at busting clay pigeons on the 100 yard line. Grandma used to head shoot the chickens with this rifle and Granddad used it to put dinner on the table more times than I can count and was doing so for 20 years before I came into the world.

Those shorts shoot surprisingly flat and are more than enough for small game.

I have to go with the classic western vs some of the "newish" sexier combos. Here is the reason why. In the past 15 or so years the industry has seen at least two shortages of ammunition and reloading components. In that time, I would take what I could find and make it work. I could always find 30-06, 270, 0r 243 brass. I could usually find some kind of .308, .277, or .243 bullet decent enough for a (non-California) hunt. Never loaded H414 until it was the only powder I could find.

For my money the most for least has always come down to what can I find ammo for today? YMMV

Good points but has nothing to do with the original question. Lots of answers have nothing to do with questiins asked though not just this thread.

If you’re referring to HaYen’s post, of course component availability has something to do with most for the least. It’s hard to get the most out of something when you can’t even find frigging components. In fact, getting the most for the least would also apply to component prices, not just cartridge efficiency. For instance, Lake City 308 or 223 brass can be bought cheap; more bang for your buck compared to a round that only has Lapua brass availability. Funny thing is I’ve never seen an actual difference in the hunting field between guns shooting the two. Maybe a bit more accurate on paper with the Lapua, but not enough difference to matter in real life (i.e. hunting/varmints).

Lots of good answers. 22-250 and 75's mmmmm......

Talking about two separate things again. It doesn't matter if the cartridge is only shot 3 times a year. Most for least has nothing to do with how often it could be shot. I agree and mentioned he made good points as do you about cheap brass. Thing is it's not the original question. Question was is about most for the least. A best choice for hunting rifle would be component avalibility prices recoil fun factor high quality etc.

Not sure if it's been mentioned

9.3x62

Has anyone mentioned the 43 Egyptian yet?

Wow I had to look that one up!!!

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?275920-43-Egyptian

Great news, boolets, Die's, and brass can be obtained from Midway and GOEX is still made. No need to find a Rolling block, a gunsmith should be able to cut a TC barrel.

A 410 grain boolet traveling at 45ACP 230grn speeds is nothing to sneeze about

I have always found that the 25-06, 280 Remington and the 338-06 are hard to beat.