I've seen double-lunged deer not leave more than a drop or two for 50yards, and make it 100....especially with guys using the early FTXs. Never said they weren't found, and never said I was there to do any tracking, until they asked for help. Evidence and cleaning showed they weren't expanding as much as some other C&C stuff. I've killed plenty with those myself, but just don't see the same results as with regular old blunt nosed stuff. The others were maybe Speer 170s, but can't recall and don't know how fast it was running, but they penciled as well. I've heard later FTXs expand well. I agree that there's lots less that'll do, and the 30-30 with a corelokt or PP is generally just fine.....but sometimes I've seen others have less than ideal results for finding a deer quick, in the dark, in Louisiana thick, and too warm to not find fast. Sometimes it was on them. Sometimes, I've seen where more expansion would've helped. Maybe it's all anecdotal, and they're dead, anyway. Then again, I've seen perfect and less than perfect results on otherwise dead deer, with everything from rim fires to 45-70s.... It's just a discussion.