"Mastering The Lightest of Rifles"

American Rifleman September 2015 by Dwight Van Brunt.

Article both confirms campfire discussion and expands upon topic.

Gee, what would we do without writers.

Why so many need affirmation is beyond me.

Steelie - " Why so many need affirmation is beyond me. ". Yeah they do...don't they. But I'd rather give JOC or Keith an 'atta boy in print than today's HUG anytime. Writers need to pay bills too.
Homesteader

I read the article.

Makes me want to run out and buy a really lightweight rifle that I need to call Mr. Forbes for instruction on how to shoot it. Otherwise, I might end up shooting sika deer in the head.

Good grief.

I read the article and I'm going to use some of the tips shooting my M70 feather weight. It's the first light weight rifle I've owned. I admit there's much I don't know. I'd rather learn even if it's from print than stay ignorant and not shoot as well.

Also - all of us shooters and hunters haven't ....

learned everything

or

know everything.

Only a few know it all! !

Jerry

I don't get American Rifle but instead, American Hunter. What does the article say?

I haven't read it, but I'd guess it says that lighter rifles are harder to shoot small groups with and are more finicky about consistent holds and shooting technique.

That would be correct.
One of the tips he offered is to hold the rifle down with your hand on the scope. While that may possibly help to stabilize the rifle on the bench and give you some indication of the accuracy potential of your rifle, I can't see using that technique in the field and would expect that your POI would change when shooting from field positions. IME you are better off to hold the rifle as you would shooting in the field.

"IME you are better off to hold the rifle as you would shooting in the field."

Absolutely! My buddy bought a Kimber Montana after my love affair with them in 7-08 and told me this damn thing won't shoot. We met at the range and I told him, hold the forearm not the scope. Wouldn't you know it, the crappy gun shot a group around 1/2"-3/4" .

It was an ok read though....

I found that some of his points were pretty good, but some of it was nonsense.
The part about being square behind the rifle, and not allowing any side pressures when shooting from a bench is dead on. That applies to not so light rifles as well, and from field positions.
But his comments of about shooting with a sling is simply nonsense. His comments about shooting off of a bipod were only a little better.
Sure, some rifles with flexible stocks, including some that have bedded barrels, do shoot off when using a shooting sling. BTW, using less pressure on the shooting sling might allow the bullet to land closer to your bench zero, but it usually still pulls the rifle off of it's zero.
The solution(s) is/are simple. One can free float the rifle's barrel, or one can use a stock that doesn't flex so much. Or one can use a shooting sling, like the Safari Ching Sling, that pulls down instead of to the left like the classic military version. Whatever one does, above all, test the rifle from the field positions that you will be using. I don't find many benches in the field.
It's called learning how to shoot the rifle so that one hits what needs to hit, consistantly. Or one can call it realistic testing. Something checking one's zero ever so often. E

We'll I've had my 300 WM Nula for 6 years now,great rifle and accurate is a understatement. Killed multiple animals with it, some free standing some braced against a tree some from the prone position. I shoot my lightweight rifle just like I shoot my heavier rifles, firm hold, and in the right position. The best thing though is TO SHOOT THEM nothing else will help.

Originally Posted by Steelhead

Gee, what would we do without writers.

Why so many need affirmation is beyond me.

I think it is a good idea that the shooting public is informed that the lighter rifles require more effort to shoot accurately. I know when people have expressed interest in shooting my 84M's (708/223) a few helpful tips made for a better experience.

For some, that article may be information more so than it is affirmation.

It's too bad that everyone wasn't born as reptiles are, knowing every damn thing.

Learn from others - even if it's their mistakes - as you'll never live long enuff to learn EVERYTHING on your own . . .

Originally Posted by woods_walker

Originally Posted by Steelhead

Gee, what would we do without writers.

Why so many need affirmation is beyond me.

I think it is a good idea that the shooting public is informed that the lighter rifles require more effort to shoot accurately. I know when people have expressed interest in shooting my 84M's (708/223) a few helpful tips made for a better experience.

You're right, it's good to have stuff in print for the stupid.

Interesting enough article. I've tried the hand on the scope trick and don't think all that much of it. Full length neutral bedded Nula's and the same with a re-barreled Kimber tell me free floating a LW is not how I want it done. Shooting from the bench with any rifle I don't have a heavy cheek on the comb.

Agree with his thought on keeping bounce to a minimum with the LW's. However, it seems to be a good idea with any rifle.

A good barrel along with having it assembled correctly goes a long way in eliminating problems. Much the same as a normal weight rifle.

AlaskaLaunch mentioned wrote here that when shooting at a basket ball sized target he is willing to accept a little less accuracy from his LW's, which is something most here seem to ignore.

Had a .338Fed Kimber that bounced around a lot on the bench and on average stayed around 1.5. In the field it hit stuff as well as the others that shoot much smaller groups from the bench. Funny how that works.

Addition: With the Nula's I've found that cleaning every 4 groups-as the writer mentioned-is not necessary. Much the same with the re-barreled Kimber. Nor does the Nula POI move around all that much when shot hot. The Kimber a little more so, but nothing that would cause a miss. If a second shot is necessary, I doubt if I will have 3minutes all that often to get it off. So it seems a little contrary to wait 3-5minutes between shots as the author recommends to find out how well your LW performs from the bench and equate it to the field.

Originally Posted by battue

1......AlaskaLaunch mentioned wrote here that when shooting at a basket ball sized target he is willing to accept a little less accuracy from his LW's, which is something most here seem to ignore.

2.......Had a .338Fed Kimber that bounced around a lot on the bench and on average stayed around 1.5. In the field it hit stuff as well as the others that shoot much smaller groups from the bench. Funny how that works.

Battue -1. Target shooting 'CAN' be relative to the TARGET size. Very Good Point.

2. Funny isn't it? We really don't NEED a comp. rifle/load/bullet to hit LIFE SIZE game.

Don't get me wrong, I strive to get the most accuracy I can find from hunting rifles.

Jerry

Personally, I like it when people don't know stuff like this. I've picked up several Kimbers and other light weight rifles at super prices because their owners didn't know how to shoot them and thought they were bad guns. Of course that's not what they told me when they were trying to make a trade with me.

Originally Posted by Blacktailer

That would be correct.
One of the tips he offered is to hold the rifle down with your hand on the scope. While that may possibly help to stabilize the rifle on the bench and give you some indication of the accuracy potential of your rifle, I can't see using that technique in the field and would expect that your POI would change when shooting from field positions. IME you are better off to hold the rifle as you would shooting in the field.

I was coming to type the exact same thing; well said and correct in my opinion.

Originally Posted by jwall

Battue -1. Target shooting 'CAN' be relative to the TARGET size. Very Good Point.

2. Funny isn't it? We really don't NEED a comp. rifle/load/bullet to hit LIFE SIZE game.

Jerry

Yes. Hitting a Deer, Moose or other big game in the shoulders, doesn't take the same accuracy as one used for Groundhogs to be successful.

Problem for most of us is BG hunting time is limited. Bench time not so much. No fun to sit at the bench and shoot 2in groups while your Buds and the internet are kicking your butt with small groups. So most naturally move to expecting little groups along with thinking it is a requirement. For all but extreme ranges it isn't.

Originally Posted by Micro_Groove

For some, that article may be information more so than it is affirmation.

It's too bad that everyone wasn't born as reptiles are, knowing every damn thing.

You're right, nobody was born knowing everything.

However, people who think they were born knowing everything are everywhere.

I didn't read the article.

My K1 weighs 6.5# with a Loopy FX3 6x42 and a round in the chamber.

I practiced. A lot.

The rifle shot 1.25" at 200 yards. Many 1/2" groups at 100.

Whatever happened to practice?

Originally Posted by Blacktailer

That would be correct.
IME you are better off to hold the rifle as you would shooting in the field.

My view too, especially with light rifles. I hold the fore end when zeroing, and rest the back of my hand on the rest, just as I would when using an improvised rest in the field.

I do agree with what the author of that article said about the importance of consistency in your hold though. Things like getting the buttplate on the same place each time, your elbows in the same place each time, do make a difference. After all, the bullet is in the barrel as the rifle starts to recoil, and if the rifle recoils differently each time it is apt to send the bullet in a different direction, especially with a light rifle.

Originally Posted by battue

If a second shot is necessary, I doubt if I will have 3minutes all that often to get it off. So it seems a little contrary to wait 3-5minutes between shots as the author recommends to find out how well your LW performs from the bench and equate it to the field.

Some rifles do walk their shots as they warm up, and it is worth knowing about (and doing something about if you can). My little drilling (6lbs bare) starts to walk its shots after the first two or three, for example, unless given a bit of time to cool down. You won't know that it does if you never try.

Having said that, I usually take my time when at the range, in order to minimise bore erosion.

I go slow at 100 yards. I'm looking mostly for zero and groups,just to see what it will do.

Next stop is 300 yards field prone,without the bags. I cycle three in quick succession,as you might want to do on an animal. Light rifle or heavy does not matter, I treat them the same.

What happens at 300 yards is way more important than 100,which gives a hint but does not tell a whole story.

A good stress relieved barrel will take that sort of treatment in stride,even a "0" to #2 contour,without throwing crazy shots.

That is a good test. I like to practice off hand at 50 yds., sitting at 100-250 yds. and some sort of supported position at 300.
In all cases, I try to shoot at least twice for an 8-10 inch group as fast as I can hit it. I like to start from standing with the rifle on safe.
This where I get reminded that if I use a shooting sling, my shooting from 100 yds. out gets alot better. Both faster and better groups. E

Originally Posted by Oheremicus

I found that some of his points were pretty good, but some of it was nonsense.
The part about being square behind the rifle, and not allowing any side pressures when shooting from a bench is dead on. That applies to not so light rifles as well, and from field positions.
But his comments of about shooting with a sling is simply nonsense. His comments about shooting off of a bipod were only a little better.
Sure, some rifles with flexible stocks, including some that have bedded barrels, do shoot off when using a shooting sling. BTW, using less pressure on the shooting sling might allow the bullet to land closer to your bench zero, but it usually still pulls the rifle off of it's zero.
The solution(s) is/are simple. One can free float the rifle's barrel, or one can use a stock that doesn't flex so much. Or one can use a shooting sling, like the Safari Ching Sling, that pulls down instead of to the left like the classic military version. Whatever one does, above all, test the rifle from the field positions that you will be using. I don't find many benches in the field.
It's called learning how to shoot the rifle so that one hits what needs to hit, consistently. Or one can call it realistic testing. Something checking one's zero ever so often. E

I have highlighted important factors in getting the game. For me the first shot is the most important and most frequently all that's needed!

Groups are for my target rifles.

Hunting rifle accuracy:

[Linked Image]

Funny schit!

Dumb Fhuqking Don hasn't been outside in DECADES!!!

CBS.

[Linked Image]

CBS.

Rest assured you are missing everything,if'n you gotta read about YOUR rifle. Pun be intended.

Hint.......................

I find it interesting that we come to a forum like this to "share" information; yet, we make light of those who read the same (and elsewhere) and ask questions to better themselves and to learn. Heck, most here would make light of those same people if they didn't read and learn, if they didn't ask questions, because the information is so readily available to all.

Originally Posted by TheBigSky

I find it interesting that we come to a forum like this to "share" information; yet, we make light of those who read the same (and elsewhere) and ask questions to better themselves and to learn. Heck, most here would make light of those same people if they didn't read and learn, if they didn't ask questions, because the information is so readily available to all.

Agree. It's a shame some think they elevate themselves by putting others down.
There is a wealth of knowledge here but you have to pick through some crap to get to it.

Whiners will RELIABLY...Whine. Congratulations?!? Furthermore,Whining Clueless Kchunts reliably skirt all things The Rifle. For obvious fhuqking reason(s). Hint.

It's never been tough to cypher who shoots more than a smidge,from who don't. Spent primers remain THE Supreme Tutorial and proficiency cain't be purchased or borrowed. Hint.

IF you have to read about a rifle that's already in in your fhuqking mitts,you are a dumber dumbfhuqk than I had wagered and to be concise,I bet BIG. Laughing!

Passed up a fair to middlin' Buck this morning at the 456yd line,with but 1/2 value wind and let's just say a certain Montucky 20" Baby BR weren't "nervous"...had his backs been stronger.

Not every rifle rates sleeping inside the tent,with me. Rest assured this itty-bitty bastard do.

Schit! It's rude not to Post a pic. He was in the saddle below the fog.

You ladies need to pry your kchunts from the couch.

Just sayin'.................

see what I mean?
Hint............

Don't mind Big Stick, aka Boxer, he means well. He just doesn't know how to show it. Aside from trying to decipher his "hints" and removing all of his excessive blather, there is usually something useful in his bloviating and chest thumping. He just doesn't know any better. At least he entertains himself.

You Do Nothing Kchunts are a hoot!

Grabbed a shower,put some gear away and got talked into a Hasty Buck Looking Jaunt. Had the Baby BR out to the 952yd line and am thinkin' that if the weather swings as it's supposed to tomorrow,I'll sluice a Booner Bear with it. Hint. Laughing!

I'm thinkin' sumptin' like this.

As opposed to sumptin' like this.

Hint.

Film at 11:00.

Laughing!.................

... bear with the Buck Remover....? Say it isn't so.....

It's despicable to disparage the whole learning process around shooting. Whatever level of competency you have achieved, there's no way you started there. To hear you guys congratulate yourselves one would think you invented the whole sport on a high mountain of spent primers. Not bloody likely!

Try this- contribute something instead of stroking yourselves and each other publicly.

I myself have only recently started working with my first light gun, a really beautiful BSA featherweight sporter in 06 which scoped and loaded is 7#. When I got it, the barrel was un-centered and rubbing on one side in the channel so I floated it without ever firing it (oops). At the range I got very inconsistent results, good groups as well as horrible vertical stringing. Noticing how flexible the forearm is (it's thin and hollow) lead me to experiment with moving my front rest back near the action which settled the strings way down. So now I have added a pressure point with epoxy near the end of the forearm, but I haven't made it back to the range yet.

I am glad to learn these things thru experience, but I don't mind reading some of this stuff either, in a book, a magazine or online. It save money and time and some of the tricks you pick up would be hard to invent.

Peator,

Perhaps you'll set THE benchmark and be the FIRST Clueless Kchunt to have Bitched herself happy? My fingers are cross for you and your "hard charging" ways.

That was REALLY compelling Testimony you submitted,about the piece of fhuqking schit BSA,in the piece of schit chambering and it's piece of fhuqking schit stock. How long do you figure folks will have to wait,until you actually shoot it and weigh back in with your cuttin' edge findings? Laffin'!

Now maybe say something about the piece of schit glass,the piece of schit base and the piece of schit rings you are sporting on that Goat Fhuqk,then quip some ammo "particulars"...as it WILL be fhuqking funny. Show NO "mercy". Laffin'!

Bless your heart.

Great time for you to shut the fhuqk up,take notes and apply same. Someone who "knows" as "much" as you,is always going to be best served by asking questions,instead of giving "answers". Re-hint.

Don't let the cat get your tongue,nor the couch get your kchunt,as you flaunt more of your Imagination and it's "fulfilling" Pretend.

Just sayin'.

Laffin'!

Originally Posted by Peator

It's despicable to disparage the whole learning process around shooting. Whatever level of competency you have achieved, there's no way you started there. To hear you guys congratulate yourselves one would think you invented the whole sport on a high mountain of spent primers. Not bloody likely!

Try this- contribute something instead of stroking yourselves and each other publicly.

I myself have only recently started working with my first light gun, a really beautiful BSA featherweight sporter in 06 which scoped and loaded is 7#. When I got it, the barrel was un-centered and rubbing on one side in the channel so I floated it without ever firing it (oops). At the range I got very inconsistent results, good groups as well as horrible vertical stringing. Noticing how flexible the forearm is (it's thin and hollow) lead me to experiment with moving my front rest back near the action which settled the strings way down. So now I have added a pressure point with epoxy near the end of the forearm, but I haven't made it back to the range yet.

I am glad to learn these things thru experience, but I don't mind reading some of this stuff either, in a book, a magazine or online. It save money and time and some of the tricks you pick up would be hard to invent.

Peator, you are just polishing a turd working on that stock. Toss that flimsy POS and bed your rifle to a good handle. You'll be miles ahead and won't need to learn any tricks to get it too shoot.

Nice insults boxer! So generic too, you could use those in almost any situation again and again. A few verbs and some weird spelling, presto.

Another way to go would be a little more specific. Like this- I bet you are actually a repressed homosexual, (don’t get me wrong, it’s the repressed part you need to work on, it’s fine that you’re gay), with at least one failed marriage under your belt and probably estranged from at least a few members of your family, your dad was probably not very nice to you, he almost certainly knew and just didn't know how to handle it. If you deny it it’s an obvious lie, and if you dismiss or avoid the topic, it’s obviously true. Actually it’s already obviously true, so just skip ahead to the part where you start misspelling cuss words again. That’s so amazing!

Back to the rifle I am curious how folks would have handles that, pressure point or full length barrel bed?

Heavy Walker- Good advice, thanks, I am sure that would work, but it's a pretty nice looking gun and I am partial to originality, I will struggle with it for a bit longer before I yield/give in to another stock.

Is the scope in the bottom picture the same one in the upper two pictures?

Originally Posted by 260Remguy

Is the scope in the bottom picture the same one in the upper two pictures?

No, bottom looks to be a Vari-X-II while the top is clearly a bushnell.

I switched that Japanese Bushnell out for a Vari X II, 3-9x. Both are great, it really just come down to I like the looks of the leupold a little more.

You posted while I wrote- correct, the top is a bushnell banner 2-7x, Japanese, and a really nice scope. The leupold is just a little classier and seems period correct as well.

I like light rifles. This one is a 6.25 lb 284; buck was at five hundred yards.

[Linked Image]

Bear was at about a hundred yards.

[Linked Image]

Handles well and is accurate.

[Linked Image]

Finally, some Krylon touch-up>

[Linked Image]

Peator,

No need to come crashin' outta the closet...it weren't my intent to horn you up. Hint. Bless your heart.

That piece of fhuqking schit,is an even bigger POS than surmised,which is VERY fhuqking impressive. Congratulations?!? Wow +P++!

NICE forked-horn.

Sooooooooooooo fhuqking Laughing!.................

'3rd,

Was on a Cast & Blast today,looking to start another Legend...but got hung up Castin'.(grin) The Sleeper BABLR 7-08 is a hoot!

Had Sister pass a Bear with it at 50yds,that I might notta should have let her given the pass to. Wasn't fretting 162A-Max at a 2500fps launch,doing their thang on Booners.

Tryin' hard not to scratch it's pristine paint................(grin)

Stick, don't you have a Marlin 336 in the pile somewhere?

Originally Posted by George_De_Vries_3rd

Handles well and is accurate.

[Linked Image]

Someone drew a dick on your target.

I feel ripped off. That’s a lot less weird cuss words. I guess you just lost your mojo for a minute? Did you cut back on my account?. Man, I was just fooling around with you B.S. I think more is better. Bring Back the cuss words. More weird cuss words! They're so clever- like "cast and blast", must feel good to share neat stuff like that around the net.

Kidding aside- gun safety Dude! I hate to see a young person with a loaded gun in her ear.

Stick: I love those pics of the big fat blacktails.

Only hunted the Columbian version, and they aint as big, or as fat...not to mention those orange horns.

However, I look better in the pic with them than you do......

'Groove,

Marlin doesn't and never has made anything worth a fhuqk...other than the 39 and it's lineage.

I've got (3) of 'em.

Tough to get offa the Anschutz channel.

A centerfire that won't eat good boolits,is simply a POS...................

Peator,

I'll feign my "surprise" that if a Do Nothing Dumbfhuqk's best move is to wax eloquent on a piece of fhuqking schit BSA,in a piece of fhuqking schit chambering,wearing a piece of fhuqking schit stock,suffering piece of fhuqking schit bases/rings...that they also schelp around the fenced pasture with a round chambered in the spout. Congratulations?

I remain fairly certain,that even if you could arrange that much fhuqking STUPIDITY...that a BLR's hammer must be cocked. Don't let that horn you up. Laughing!

After you make such a "Big Change" on a POS such as the Goat Fhuqk you suffer,generally how long do you have to wait to shoot it? Days,months or years? Laughing!

Another 162 Booner,if only to fuel your Imagination and bolster your Pretend.

I hear good thangs about a right proper Cast & Blast and it seems that light/handy rifles get the most exposure. There just might be a pun,intended. Google it. Laughing!

[Linked Image]

Not that a pistole doesn't have it's place. Just sayin'.

Actual use,is how Legends are born. Hint.

[Linked Image]

Hoping the cat don't get your tongue,nor the couch your kchunt,as you relate more from the EXCITING World of The Do Nothing Dumbfhuqk Chronicles.

Laughing!.....................

Dude this is getting pretty lame. I say your gay so you say Im gay, I say bring the cuss words, all the sudden there’s less cuss words, I point it out and now we’re back to lots of cute words. I say gun safety and all the sudden you’re defending your gun safety. The trick is not to let your opponent pick the subject, you look weak.

Another trick is when the winner say it’s over, it’s over, and everything that comes after starts to sound like a desperate attempt at catch up. You can go that way or just let it go like I am about to do.

Over.

Why do you have to look at it as being "opponents?"

If a person makes it his habit of projecting a non-collegial tone in all of his posts over the course of a decade, isn't that a trend? If a person's tone isn't collegial, or at least neutral, isn't it antagonistic, unsociable, unsocial, aggressive, argumentative, bellicose, belligerent, combative, contentious, disputatious, pugnacious, quarrelsome, scrappy, truculent; inhospitable, inimical, and/or unfriendly?

Yes; good synonym workout!

My point is the only thing the responder can control is how he responds--doesn't have to follow suit.

Correct me if I've misunderstood what you've posted, but are you saying that it is OK for some people to post in a boorish/offensive/rude manner, but not OK for others to respond in kind?

While you and I might prefer constructive, polite, and positive dialog, some people seem to lack the ability to respond in a like manner. There are likely many reasons for their lack of manners, but whatever the reasons, is there really any excuse for being discourteous/impolite?

Originally Posted by 260Remguy

Correct me if I've misunderstood what you've posted, but are you saying that it is OK for some people to post in a boorish/offensive/rude manner, but not OK for others to respond in kind?

While you and I might prefer constructive, polite, and positive dialog, some people seem to lack the ability to respond in a like manner. There are likely many reasons for their lack of manners, but whatever the reasons, is there really any excuse for being discourteous/impolite?

No, and no. PM sent.

Peator, it is a dance. Stick saw you wanting to be in the center, so pulled you out to promenade with him on the floor, strut your stuff.

Change the tude and follow the lead.

'gwe,

It's too early for Ruby Red Bruisers...but it won't be long.

They tend too look like this,now.

But it IS coming and won't be long.

If I recall correctly...it's a purty good time..............(grin)

Peator,

I'll feign my "surprise",that was only "news" to you...in regards to how amazingly fhuqking lame you are. The "trick" really ain't that tricky and all you gotta do,is pry your kchunt from the couch and good luck on arranging that! Bless your heart.

I find myself on pins & needles,awaiting the fascinating R&D you've bestowed your esteemed Goat Fhuqk and all the "findings" you'll be able to share. Give or fhuqking take. Laughing!

It's your Imagination and please feel to Pretend that which you most need to hear,as you continue your "hardcharging" and sort out being stumped by a piece of fhuqking schit rifle.

Don't let the cat get your tongue,nor the couch your kchunt,because you are doing "great".

Laughing!..................

260Gal,

Besides being a Whining Do Nothing Kchunt,you are also a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit...as you seemed to have "forgotten" yet again,about your Imaginary Pretend Ignore. Though in fairness,you do suck a mean ass. Congratulations?!? Laughing!

PLEASE find me "mistaken" and I will happily take the time to use words little enough,that even you will be able to understand,as I rub your nose in your INCREDIBLE fhuqking Stupidity.

Or set on your kchunt and Whine some more.

Laughing!................

3rd,

Point is,it's easy to cypher who do shoot a smidge and who don't. I get it that Joe Average is indeed a Clueless Dumbfhuqk,as soooooooooo many here eloquently attest obliviously. It'll come as a "surprise" only to them,that there is a faction of folks who have the faculties to accrue savvy and are rather at ease with facts being spelled out plainly. I'm rather at ease,in painting them purtiest of pictures and connectin' them dots happily,but some IQ is requisite and that of course is the greatest of hurdles and precludes everyone being able to play. That'd be THE funniest fhuqking part.(grin)

Whiners will ALWAYS find a fhuqking reason to Whine...if only because it's the only fhuqking move they've got. Funny how it actually works and I mean fhuqking FUNNY!

The Real Ninja Whiners,will go so far as to concoct Delusions of Imaginary Pretend Ignore,as frosting on their Hissy Fits,but the Poor Poor STUPID Kchunts cain't always remember said "decree" and making "the stance". FUNNY schit! I enjoy how "real" their Imagination and Pretend are to them.

For some reason,they ALL give The Rifle a wide fhuqking berth.................(grin)

Woof,

Only fair to let THE Dumbest of fhuqks,have as much slack on the rope as they wish. It'd be rude not to.(grin)

I just might enjoy leading folks to water and watching 'em not drink.

Rifles talk,yet noone listens.

Hint...............

That last pic does it for me.

Originally Posted by Colo_Wolf

Peator, it is a dance. Stick saw you wanting to be in the center, so pulled you out to promenade with him on the floor, strut your stuff.

Change the tude and follow the lead.

Was a simple Hokey-pokey and peator could not keep up.