I am looking to add to my gun cabinet with a rifle that will be used for whitetail deer hunting at close range in thick cover. Think maximum of 75 meter shots and often at moving deer. The two I am considering the most are the Tikka Battue Lite and the Browning BLR. Caliber will be likely be 7mm-08 or 308 - both are offered in it.

Any and all opinions welcome. I have primarily been a bowhunter and am slowly transitioning into the rifle hunting world.

Either would work.. I prefer the 7mm-08.. Just have a real bias against the.308.. No reason... Just don't like it..

BLR 308. But if you can find a Savage 99, that would be great too.

From the title I was thinking .44 mag carbine. Turns out we're not exactly talking short range.

Try some out and see which one shoulders fast and feels best for you. For a brush gun I want something light and short throwing heavy lead. It needs to mount like a fine upland shotgun.

I was going to build one for myself next year. Probably far from your needs but I was going to take a 308 Montana and cut it to 20" and have it bored for the 358 Winchester.

To me a BLR feels like a heavy 2X4 but get what feels best to you.

If you don't want to stay with those calibers, look at a Marlin Guide gun in 45-70.

The BLR is the ugly duckling of the levergun world. Balances the worst, and has one of the $hittiest triggers.

For that short of range, anything will work. Get a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem or 444.

Or if you do not want to scope it, get a Win 94. Either are great for short range, thick cover, running deer.....

Buy a Savage Hog Hunter. Heck of a rifle for the price.

75 meters is quite doable with a .44 mag Carbine.

I like the way you think.

I have one of these and also a .44 mag carbine, both are excellent for woods hunting. Loaded with (.44 Mag) 300 grain WFNs or 435 grain WFNs (.45-70), both are capable of knocking big holes in animals.

44 mag carbine or how about a 760/7600 carbine in 308 . Kinda hard to beat any of those in the brush.

I second the marlin 444, for a short range stopper this is as good as it gets!.

Light weight bolt guns or for that matter any gun that is muzzle light suck hind tit for off hand shooting. The old Remington model 7's with the walnut stock and 18.5 inch barrel in particular was heralded as a great "woods" rifle and in fact was so poorly balanced for offhand shooting as to be laughable. A Marlin 336 or Winchester 94 is far superior. With a full magazine they are not too light and just enough muzzle heavy to hold steady and swing smoothly.

Something like this. I chose a Ruger Predator in 308, but any short barreled lightweight bolt gun in most any modern cartridge will do. This weighs 6 3/4 lbs; less scoped than my lever 30-30's do with irons. With the scope on 1X it is faster to get on target and the optics make it easier to pick up game in poor light. On 4X it'll keep 3 shots under 1" at 200 yards.

I like a 308, 243, 6.5, 7-08, etc over traditional brush cartridges. Even at close range trajectory matters in brush. Bullets will be no more than 1" above or below line of sight from the muzzle to 120-130 yards and only about 2" low at 200 yards. Makes it easier to thread bullets through baseball size openings in brush.

Something like this. I chose a Ruger Predator in 308, but any short barreled lightweight bolt gun in most any modern cartridge will do. This weighs 6 3/4 lbs; less scoped than my lever 30-30's do with irons. With the scope on 1X it is faster to get on target and the optics make it easier to pick up game in poor light. On 4X it'll keep 3 shots under 1" at 200 yards.

I like a 308, 243, 6.5, 7-08, etc over traditional brush cartridges. Even at close range trajectory matters in brush. Bullets will be no more than 1" above or below line of sight from the muzzle to 120-130 yards and only about 2" low at 200 yards. Makes it easier to thread bullets through baseball size openings in brush.

223 sounds about right to me. Nice to see what happens after the hammer falls.

Not sure how to shoot running sheit at 75 yards in heavy brush without hitting heavy brush.

I shot a 262 lb. buck in heavy timber. It was flippin crazy. Was pointing the muzzle at him while he ran in my general direction. Nothing but tree after tree after tree. Last thing I recall thinking, and I recall it very vividly, was this SOB is gonna get past me and I am never going to get a shot.

I picked out a tree, and when he got to it, I shot. Hit his azz right in the heart and watched the blood pour out. He ran straight at me, I stuck the muzzle in his face. Damn near run me over. He went down and died 30 yards behind me. Very memorable hunt. Not the only deer I have shot in really thick $hit, but the biggest.

I honestly feel such shots are far more difficult than say hitting an egg or such at long range. The nerve factor is higher, and the clock ticking........

I'd just get a pre64 Win70 with a low comb stock and standard barrel contour, and hunt it with the open sights.

A fun gun would be a Remington 7600 carbine in 35 Whelen with open sights.

I'm using a 300 Blackout for the short range stuff. Pick your host and suppressor of choice and kill quietly with minimal recoil.

22lr

2much, you have that right..

Yeah, it ain't easy. Everytime I have done it I have felt "lucky". That big boy was chasing 2 does at once, and all 3 coming in my general direction, around trees and such.....

I've shot a few that way where I thought they would have ruin me down if I hadn't shot them. I've had one turn and kick dirt in my eyes.I didn't get him.

In such situations scope is as important as the gun. I want a 2X maximum with a great eyebox so I am looking through it as soon as it comes up.

One thing I know for certain. The most challenging hunts are the ones I remember best. I have bang flopped tons of deer. More than I can recall. But the ones that were not "gimmes" are the ones I remember everything about.....

I would go with a .308 for the job you described! That way you have lots of bullet selections. Maybe a savage 99, or 760! You can go heavy as 220gr and light as 130gr bullets, and everything in between, good luck with your selection!

BLR in .358 Win! Thank me later.

Or build a M7 .358.

.358 is easy on the meat but knocks them dead with authority.

I used my Rem 760 in 308 for many years in PA woods. It works well for short range and out to moderate ranges. I have no qualms of making drives with it all the way to sitting on a logging road or hay field. It worked well from 20 yards to 340 yards in my days there. I still have it, and will likely take it for some nostalgia hunt soon.

R H Clark...Isecond the LWT Bolt Action in .358Win...ScottyO. PS I have a mauser custom .35-284 Win. That just Pole-Axes Big Deer and Black Bear in thick cover at spittin distances...

Yep,I agree with you and Jeff O as to caliber. I want something shooting heavy bullets at close range in the thick stuff. I've never thought that there are brush busting calibers,as in bullets that shoot through brush, but I do feel that on the far end of the spectrum of a 55 grn hyper velocity round verses something like a 45/70, that the 45/70 would have a better chance of clipping a limb and still making it to the target. It just stands to reason that more mass would be less affected by another mass.

I've just never liked the stock dimensions of lever actions. With most of them,I have to raise my head just to look through iron sights,and I have to raise it twice as high with a scope. I like low power scopes at close range because I feel they are faster than aligning two sights. They are only faster however if I don't have to make any head adjustments on a fast mount,and lever actions don't allow that for me.

2muchgun generally does. Having followed his posts for years he very specific opinions which are based from having used some nay different rifle platforms in the the woods and not just on the bench.

His time in the deer woods speaks for itself.

Doc

Of course. I've killed at over 100 yards with mine. I meant we aren't talking short range rifles here.

OK, Now I understand.

I have a little Howa in .308 that is handy in the woods but can reach out if needed, and it's only slightly longer than an M94 Winchester. But, much more versatile.

I hunt the same conditions you are describing daily during our deer season. If I wanted to carry a lever it would be either a BLR in .308 or .358. They do have a heavy trigger pull but I had the guy in PA go over both the .308 and .358 and now they are pretty sweet. Other options for a lever action include a Marlin GBL 1895 in 45-70. 18.5 inch barrel so its easy to maneuver in the thickets. Finally don't dismiss the Winchester 94 30-30. It most likely leads the pack with deer kills in thick stuff over the last 75-100 years.
Bolt actions....my choice would be one of three if you are right handed. Either a Ruger Hawkeye in 300 RCM or 338 RCM or a Winchester Compact 70 in 7mm/08 or .308.

Are we discussing deer or brown bear?

^^^^^^^^^ this

My Lipseys Limited Run Ruger Hawkeye RSI 30-06
Weather Proofed with Cerakote and Micro Slick
scope Leupold FX-II 3x20 with Heavy Duplex

I hunt in thick brush in western Washington. The most important thing is that the rifle has to fit you--when you bring it up, you should see the crosshairs superimposed over whatever you were looking at without having to wiggle around or shift anything. See the target, see crosshairs on it, press the trigger, get out your knife. You can reach that level of proficiency with almost anything if you practice enough, but I had my best luck with a pre-64 Model 70 FWT in 308 and a 4x Leupold that Jim Cloward put into a Pacific Research stock. Inside of 100 yards, pretty much any bullet weight will do, since deer don't have armor plates and the bullet is still moving pretty fast.


Okie John

A marlin carbine in 35 Rem. would be the cats ass.

Take your pick. Just about anything will work at those ranges, from pistols to any centerfire cartridge I can think of. Which one can you afford to practice with the most? Shots like that are apt to be quick so practice will make a huge difference on whether you get the shot in a timely fashion or watch the deer walk away in the brush.
Don't leave out a shotgun with good slugs and a slug barrel. Perfect environment for the serious knockdown power of a slug, IMHO.

Bob

I beg to differ. That's the second most important. THE MOST IMPORTANT thing is that the rifle have enough weight and the correct balance to hold steady for offhand shooting and swing smoothly for shots at moving game. It also needs a light, crisp trigger so as to get those offhand shots off at precisely the right instant those crosshairs are pasted in the sweet spot. I've primarily hunted thick woods and brush for over 40 years and exclusively for the last 20. I've killed over 150 deer in that environment, on the ground and on my feet. Over the years I've tried about every damn rifle there is at one time or another and you won't find any of these lightweight or flyweight rigs in my woods rifle collection today. What I do use would all be considered at least mid weight and some run to the heavy side. Lightweight portability is of far less relavence than the fact that I can consistently put my bullets in a 2" circle at 65 yards offhand and I'd like to see how many of these guys on here could do that with the ultra light rifles they seem so fond of. Particularly when their heart rate is at least slightly elevated from the exertion and excitement of the hunt. I'd bet heavy coin not very damned many.

I'm a long time user of leveractions for this type of work but am interested in putting something together very similar to the rifle above.

You got me. I stand corrected. My rifle had those things and I overlooked them.


Okie John

Here in the Northeast you don't have to go far to find thick woods. I hunted with leverguns, in particular Marlins in just about every configuration and caliber they made. They worked well and then started shooting and hunting with lighter weight bolt actions, especially in a carbine version and have never looked back. Good balance with a little weight forward that fits you well. As for cartridge, I use to believe in the bigger is better and the learned a a good bullet from .243-.308 in the right place takes them down just as quick. Favorite being a 7mm-08. For speed on follow up shots, its amazing how fast you can work a bolt action when adrenaline is pumping and deer are running

How about a 30-30 or a 35 Remington?

All over the place on this one...

Deer in the brush says to me:

A compact bolt rifle like Rem 7 7-08 with Leupold 1.5-5 Heavy Duplex.

or

Rem 722 300 Sav with receiver sight.

No need for medium bores. Just deer? 223, 22-250, 243.


2013 Whitetail rifle thread

Remmy 760/7600 in 35 Rem ought to do it well, just make sure you get lits of practice shooting rabbits with an 870 prior to deer season 😀

You lost me at "75 meter".....

Close range/thick brush...this is what I use.



If I was buying new I'd give the Mossberg 464 a look. I've handled a couple and they seem to be dandy little rifles.

Or in an 06 or 308, they kill as good close as they do longer ranges

Just to keep the discussion going, another option would be a Ruger Mini 30.

But what happens if you have to make a long shot with a close range rifle? Or a close shot with a long range rifle? Or a timber shot with a bean field rifle? Or a bean field shot with tree stand rifle? Or a ground blind shot with a truck rifle? Or a husband shot with a wife rifle? Or a wife shot with a kids rifle? Or an expensive shot with a budget rifle? Or a light rifle shot with a heavy rifle? Or a rainy shot with a blued rifle? Or a varmint shot with a dangerous game rifle?


Quite a conundrum....

Not really an issue. Just pick the best tool for the job at hand and stay within it's limitations and your own abilities.

Browning BAR

http://www.browning.com/products/fi...n/bar-mk3-mossy-oak-breakup-country.html

True dat' I just have a penchant for 35 Rem pumps, ideal platform for the 35...

Just to throw something out there: here in Northwest Louisiana, the cover is very much like it is in East Texas. By that I mean thick, heavy, dense pine forest. This requires a rifle that is small and maneuverable as well as powerful enough to drop a deer or a pig fast, as it's a pain in the rear to track them down through the undergrowth. Shots are rarely more than 60-70 yards. I use an H&R Handi Rifle in .444 Marlin for most of my hunting in such conditions. Topped with a fixed 2.5 power Leupold, and with a pretty short overall length, it's the perfect brush boppin' gun. I don't have to worry about it being anything fancy that I'm dragging through the pine boughs, and it forces me to value each and every shot, since it's a single shot. The .444 is way more than enough for medium sized whitetails, and in fact, cast bullets will punch right on through, so bullet choice is important. I like the setup a lot for what it is, and it does exactly what I ask of it (which is the same thing you seem to be describing). I'm not comfortable with it past about 120 yards, honestly. For the sake of comparison, another of my rigs is a Remington 700 chambered in 308 Win. It's got a Leupold 2-7x33 on it. It's a much longer rifle, and it's got more weight than the H&R. Obviously the 308 is a terrific cartridge and it's got enough "ummph" to bag most North American game at pretty respectable distances. Now then, I have toted the 700 around the woods and does it work for deer at 60-70 yards? You betcha. Does it work for deer at ranges out to 200 yards or even farther? Also yes. Is it in general a more versatile weapon than a single shot shorty in 444 Marlin? Heck yeah. If you choose a long, heavy 30 caliber bullet, it has plenty of energy out of the muzzle and under 100 yards, just like the 444 does. So, even with the 308, bullet choice can be very important and make a big difference. Basically, I prefer the 444 Marlin for the kind of shooting you're talking about, but with some smart load development, there won't be any noticeable terminal issues with using a 308 instead. Despite being a bit longer, it's by no means impossible to tote a Remington 700 through even the nastiest cover. The added benefit is being able to have a little extra versatility in case you get the chance to take some longer shots on deer/hogs or to try popping some 'yotes at longer ranges. You won't go wrong with it. However, if you're certain that you won't be doing anything like that or if you already have a rifle to do that kind of shooting (in other words, you're looking for a completely dedicated short-range deer rifle) you cannot possibly go wrong with a straight walled big-bore cartridge of some kind or another. Short barrels won't significantly hurt ballistics and they pack the up-close energy to drop any deer in its tracks in heavy woods.

I didn't think it was all that difficult. And nobody has mentioned scopes yet....

Or is it open sights? Or peep sighs? Or a red dot?

See through rings. Allows the use of iron sights as well as the 6-24x50 AO scope which has an extra ring with small pic that a red dot mounts to above. Needs to be quick detach for the fixed 2.5x backup scope.

TFF.



Dave

I'd be hunting with an AR.





Clark

Arkansas?

How 'bout a genuine PA Deer rifle, the Remington 760? I have one for sale, a Deluxe version. It's in 30-06...I'd shoot 200gr round-nose Core-Lokts to dump a deer right now. It even has the see-thru scopemount. Hey, they've been getting the job done for years!

$575 shipped







[img]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Biebs52/760%20007_zpsnrlhhmke.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Biebs52/760%20008_zpsr3wggj0v.jpg[/img]

The see-thru mounts what makes it deluxe?

See through mounts are great when your blister pack Bushnell quits working.

Amish assault rifle.

Damn Beibs that's beautiful very tempting!

I've been lucky, hunting is 99 problems and the rifle ain't one.


Just sayin yo.....

The Deluxe had better wood, Monte Carlo stock, basketweave checkering, and a few other tidbits.

Caliber: 35Rem or 358Win. Platform...whatever you feel most comfortable mounting, sighting, shooting, taking 2nd shot (if needed.)

This is about as good as it gets. My dad hunted with one for many years and took his share of deer with it, brush country or wide open spaces. My nephew still hunts with it and it shoots great for a slider. His shot around 1 1/2" groups just about any day with factory ammo. And the 30-06 has about the most versatile line up of projectiles available in any caliber, IMHO.

Bob

Put a close range timber rifle together this summer. Sent a 30-30 336 Marlin with a bad bore off to be re-bored to 38-55. Added a Skinner peep, fibre optic front sight and 250 gr cast bullets at about 1400 fps. Early season doe proved the thing works great, hoping for a regular season buck to go with it.

There are multiple good choices. When I first saw the title, I immediately thought of my Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum or my Guide Gun in .45-70, although my Ruger American Compact stainless in 7mm-08 would also work great.

Other options would be: Marlin 444, Remington 760 or 7600 Carbine, a short-barreled (18-20") bolt gun, or a Savage 99 or Browning BLR.

Throw maybe a Leupold VX3i 1.5-5x20 with heavy duplex on and go hunting!

Were I you, I might well go for this:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/600284434

I'm interested in something similar, I shoot Weatherby Vanguards, 24" .30-06 and 6.5 Creedmoor with 3-9 scopes, and a 20" .223 with a 2-7.

I'm thinking about their .308 Carbine, it comes Cerakoted with a 20" #1 contour barrel. With 180 gr Partitions and a 2-7 scope I think it would do well as a woods rifle and be useful as a 300 yd mountain rifle also.

I'm also jonesing for their .375 H&H with a 1.25-4 scope which would also do well in the woods and be useful for Nilgai, big hogs, and if I'm ever lucky enough to go on a bear hunt. It's a bit on the heavier side though.

Call Randy's gun shop in bad axe Michigan

He has ruger american 450 bm rifles

Special for Michigan

He's selling 100's of them.

I can't believe how accurate

Just came in from hunting after a few drinks with a bud. Read this and LMAO. What a grin.

No offense to the OP. It is a nice rifle. And the older Jap Bushnells very under rated scopes. Nothing wrong with them either.

I have thrown out more see thru rings than I can recall. From scopes I mounted for people who "caught on". Anyone who wants some see thrus let me know. There is still a pile of them here that I never got around to disposing of....

Not a bad way to go right there. I am very familiar with Randy's. They are good to go.....

I only mentioned it because as a youth I hunted with dog hunters who insisted on see through mounts on their $20 Bushnells. They always bragged about those mounts as the only thing to use and I'm sure they often needed them. It just brought back some memories for me.

Get a good short action bolt rifle and have it rebarreled with a 20" light tube chambered in 338 Federal or 358Win. You will find no better short range deer rifle.

There are a few out there already chambered in these cartridges but they are a little scarce.

Its missing something...needs one of these to be the complete package


Just razzin ya Diebs, thats a clean 760.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/f...s-in-bad-axe.575116/page-19#post-6093001


OP, please read on the 450BM Ruger American

You pretty well defined my first 20 yrs of deer hunting. My answer was a pre war Savage 99F with 20 in light barrel, receiver peep sight, in 30/30.
Substitute any of the traditional lever actions in 30, 32, 35, or 44 caliber and you're in the money.
No scope needed at the ranges you're talking, but if you have to scope keep it low powered.
Relatively short bolt guns will certainly work (I'd go short action and 22" or shorter barrel), but a nice slick lever gun gets you that second or third (or fourth!) shot at a running deer much quicker.
Calibers below 30 fell out of favor in our little hunting circle due to too many wounded and lost deer. Hard to get perfect bullet placement on running deer, the larger calibers allow a little more error.

How about a Remmy 742 carbine in aught 6?

I hope I read that wrong. If I did, I apologize. If I read it correctly and you hunted after a few drinks, I'm glad I wasn't around as I have seen these scenarios and sometimes they don't end well. But, again, if I read it wrong I apologize.

Me and the buddies use to have this conversation at Deer Camp, in No Wisconsin.. where we hunted a lot of thick cover and swamp...

After enough hunting it, I came to the conclusion the best firearm for thick cover isn't a rifle at all...

I come to the conclusion the answer was a good 12 gauge pump with a magazine of 8 deer slugs in it...

Why is that? Honestly interested in why it works better for you.

As the OP asked, the Tikka is a very good choice in 308, I generally hunt in thick laurel and timber. A 75 yard shot is long. I carry a Sako Finnlight because the barrel is not long to get caught up in the brush and it is on the light side. It is also stainless and synthetic, and that helps with the wet underbrush, and bumps and bruised as I slip and fall every hunt. The bolt locks in place so I don't lose a round when it gets tangled up. I started out a zillion years ago with a Marlin 336 in 35 rem, and it flattened many deer.

That's what I hunted with at Ft Bragg when I was a kid...
and it worked pretty darn well... with Deer Slugs or Double Ought Buckshot...

used it several times in Wisconsin in swamps with success...

Seemed to work in thick cover better than my 30/06 with 220 grain RNs did...

so I use to carry both my 06 and my Rem 870 with me deer hunting in Wisconsin and MN... used the 870 when I went into brush on deer drives...

Just wondering if it had anything to do with the shotgun's quick handling capability.

My theory is that a brush gun should come to your shoulder like a fine upland shotgun. I have found that it is possible with a rifle but it needs to be set up correctly and fit you perfectly.

After having spent my youth with southern dog hunters my conclusion is that way too many deer are never recovered when shot with buckshot. I know it's 99% the hunters fault for shooting too far, but that is never a concern with the close range rifle.

Marlin 30-30 336C. Small, little lever action perfect for close quarters and follow up shots if you need 'em. Guess I'm a little partial since it was my first deer rifle.

I own a number of good useable calibers for deer and even larger game...30-30, 25-06, 7mm-08, 300 Win Mag and a 9.3x62. Hands down, my favorite deer rifle is my Ruger M77 Hawkeye in 358 Winchester. I would not hesitate to use it in brush or at longer range at up to 300 yards for deer and up to 225 to 250 yards for elk. Using a stout load of Ramshot TAC with 225 grain Nosler Partitions, I have a lot of confidence in this rifle.

I just posted a picture of my Remington 141 in 35 Remington in another thread and then saw this one. It was made for this type of hunting! The 141, to me, is one of the fastest handling and easiest pointing rifles made. I use it hunting whitetails in close cover where a long shot would be 50 yards and most will be under 30. The 35 Remington is a great cartridge for deer up to 150 yards without being over kill.

Much wisdom here. My .358 is a Model 7. I have killed a bunch of blacktail with the 200 grain Hornady SP, which is a wicked little ashtray, and a bunch with the 225 Partition You are spot-on with the TAC recommendation; it ends the compressed-loads stuff.

I had tremendous success with RL-7 and 200's, easily driving them to 2650 fps with eternal brass life and no pressure signs. Also no powder compression.

The 225 Partition isn't going to jelly lungs and so on. It makes a big, polite hole through the deer and is easy on the meat. The 200 Horn SP is going to smack them harder. Either works great. The 225 NP has a usable BC that lets you stretch it into a 300-yard plus rifle if you choose to do that. No way with the 200 Horn- it's a butterfly in the wind!

The 225 Sierra is a good practice stand-in for the 225 NP. Sierra told me it was too hard for .358. I haven't used it on game.

Nothing wrong with a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington for quick, close range hunting. Maybe add an X S Sight (ghost ring) and you are ready to go. I've got those on my 45-70 and they are quick.

this^

Well that old 870 sure does come up easily also.. and probably quicker than a bolt action 06...

but I think at the time, I really don't think about it.... kinda the same way you are too busy aiming at a deer, to feel the recoil of it when in the field...

This year for me my "close range" deer rifle will be a Marlin 1895 in .40-65 or a Winchester 94 Eastern Carbine in 25-35. In the past I've used .30-30s, 35 Remingtons, .375 Winchester, .45-70, 7.62X39, 6.8SPC, .223s, 22-250, .250 Savages, .358 Winchesters (one was Remington 760 carbine rechambered), 30-40 Krags, .350 Remington Magnum, Shotguns (buckshot or slugs, whatever was available) of course two old standbys 270 & 30-06 etc....)- guess the point being pretty much anything will work and work well if you can get the projectile(s) there. It is more about what you feel comfortable with.

Good Luck!
PennDog

Great loony thread!

Were money no object, I'd love to run a Blaser R8 Professional Tracking model in 9.3x62. Use an Aimpoint T1 w 2-MOA dot.

If I really wanted a light walkabout crusher, a Beretta 1301 Tactical w RDS and stuffed w Brennekes would work.

In all honesty that RAR Ranch in .450 Bushmaster could have been used on 90 percent of the deer I've killed.

I've never noticed them being too hard when using my .358.

Absolutely noting wrong with a Merkel K1 in my favorite, 7x57.

I really like the concept of the K1. I have never handled one but just by looks it seems to have way too much drop in that stock. I think I would like it a lot with a straighter stock so I could mount a 1-5X or 1-6X down low and have good cheek weld.

If I'm planning on pussyfooting around in close cover (like I did today) I will grab my late uncle's pre-64 M94 in 32 Spl. with a peep site with a large aperture. It's light, very maneuverable, easy to carry in one hand and just plain fun to carry. As an added benefit, it a connection to the past and for me these days, that's as important as shooting a deer.

That's meaningful.

Alot of talk about big bore crushers here. I've used a few myself over the years. A bunch of 12 gauge slug guns with a bunch of different full bore and saboted slugs. A Marlin .35, a Marlin .44 mag., a Remington 760 .30-06 with 180 gr. RN core lokts. And have found them largely irrelevant to success and of dubious increased effectiveness compared to smaller rounds. Meaning a hit through the lungs with a 12 gauge or a .44 or a .30-06 generally runs aways before it falls and with a shot through the shoulders, spine or head they drop right there. The results with a .30-30 or .243 are pretty much the same. The only advantage the bigger guns MAY provide is a better chance of a heavier blood trail and the ability to reach vitals with an azz shot, which is a shot I won't take anyway.. Neither of those advantages are carved in stone either, depending to a large extent on bullets used and location of hit.

I'd roll with a lever gun in just about any cartridge offered. A Marlin Guide Gun platform, in .45-70!would fit the bill nicely.

Sako 85 Black Bear .308
Kahles KX 2-7 4A
Shortened to 18" plus suppressor
Lapua cases, 150gr Lapua Megas, Fed LR Match, 45gr H4895
Capable of .5 MOA, or less, all day long
Great in the tight stuff although a little heavy for mountainous terrain.

Good to know. Sierra rep told me it was designed for .350 mag and Whelen speeds. I just used the NP's on game.

I revamped my .358 (new barrel profile, soon a new stock, new scope) this year and it's going to be fun to take it out in its new guise. Love that thing.

Before I knew any better, I killed a bunch of deer at handshake range with a Ruger M77 in 250 Sav. Rifle was topped with a 4x Weaver (Leupold now), and stuffed with 100 grain Core-Lokts. Can't remember ever having one go very far.

I carry a 7600 carbine a lot now. While I like the rifle, you certainly don't need an 06 to kill deer.

My brush guns are
Rugee 44 carbine, cz 527 carbine in 762X39, and. Lever 30-30.
Th cz is just right but the 44 for follow up is the winner.
If I ever wanted more it would be 45/70
Or pump 35 Whalen

Something like a 243 or 7-08 with a scope that can go down to about 2x and top out in the 7-8x range.

No need to have a rig that excels at 50 yards but short changes you at 250-300 if you have the chance to hunt a place with open spaces.

I use a 22-250 or 6mm for 99.9% of my hunting which is done in heavy oak timber that does not offer a shot of over 50-60 yards. Either of these will work as good at 50 yards as they do at 250, cannot say the same of some of the traditional so called "brush guns".

Never felt handicapped in short range situations with a longer range gun but could very easily feel handicapped if shooting a shorter range gun and a longer range shot presented itself.

No problem with regular rounds, but for brush at close range it be smart to keep the barrel length down.
And good call on Low power scope.
This is why my 06 has 2.5-10. It can do all.

If by, "close range" you mean something that shoulders quickly and can throw a lot of lead in an adrenaline filled situation, such as a late season deer drive, a Remington semi-auto 742 in 30-06 is hard to beat.

in KS we have a late doe only season where we push the brush and my little 742 carbine mounted with a Leupold VX-3 1.5-5x20mm is my go-to deer slayer .

It may not be pretty- the years have been rough on 'er, but, it has never failed me and has accounted for at least 2 dozen deer.

Agree; I'd add that it's nice to keep the MV down too in my experience.

Hell......MV won't hurt you in the close stuff. Just use a good bullet and problem solved.

270-130 NPT at 3100 fps. 40-50 yards. That's the exit. It works that way just about every single time.

I have a Winchester 100 rifle in 308 with the barrel cut down to 17". It is really handy, allows for quick follow up shots, and is mounted with a Leupold 2-7x33 with a heavy duplex reticle. If I'm planning to hunt deer in tight cover, it is my preferred rifle.

In Iowa it's slugs and shotguns. My longest shot was about 40 yards. I would really like to try my Chilean Calvary carbine in 7x57 but I'd have to go out of State to do it.

kwg

I bought a 20 gauge Remington 870 rifles barrel shotgun to shoot deer in Mills and Fremont Counties in Iowa.

Ironically, the best/biggest whitetail buck that I've seen this year was chasing a doe just south of the Wal-Mart at 180th Street and West Center Road about 9AM this morning. Hope to see his equal, or better, across the river.

Good luck. I've killed 2 deer with a 20 gauge. They are quite capable.

Kwg

I have a Merkel SR 1 30-.06 semi auto with a 20 inch barrel and plenty of extras sort sale if anyone is interested.

I already have the bones for a good one: a 30-06 in a Remmy Model 6 (fancied up 7600) I bought for bear hunting. I'd shorten the barrel to carbine length of 18-20" and be happy. Remington used to make a 7600 with an 18" barrel. Not sure if they still offer that or not. I love a pump for fast and accurate follow up shots. The pumping action puts you right back on target.

Deer at a max 75 meters in thick cover" To me this screams for a lever or pump, with a lever being my preference.

Top to bottom:

Marlin 1895 .45-70
Marlin 375 .375 Winchster
Marlin 336C .30-30
Browning B92 .44 Mag

Scopes are in Warne Quick Release rings. Scopes are Leupold Vari-X II and VXII 2-7x and M*-4x (.30-30). All three have red fibre front sights.



For the job described I think it would be hard to beat the .30-30.

There are a lot of different opinions on caliber here and I have not read them all, but to me how the rifle handles would be more important than the calibers mentioned since all will do the job.

For my close range hunting I have used the 30-30 and a couple 35's. This year I switched to a Winchester FW in 7x57. The range was ~ 35 yards using Privi Partisan 139g factory loads. The whole going out was 1/2 dollar sized. I do like 2 holes since the deer can run and hide in the thick stuff making them difficult to find. Especially this year since there was no snow.

The 760 in 308 is perfect for this application. Fast, accurate and handle great.

Here's mine ......

This reminds me of the azz shot bear story.....

That is very nice

That's an interesting set up you have there. Is that can threaded on or clamped somehow? It appears that you would have to run threads over the fluting unless it is some sort of reflex arrangement.

I've never shot a deer that wasn't in "thick schit" My two biggest bucks were less than 10 yards away.

I've shot deer in the thick stuff with
.257R (2)
7x57 (1)
30-06 (tons)
.308 (tons)
.270 (1)
.280 (4-5)
.358W (1)
100gr Muzzy (tons)

How is that better than a rifle?

I'll take a .223 with one round over that ANY day.

X2! ...... Who takes 8 shots in thick stuff let alone any stuff?

I would never use a SG for deer hunting unless it was legally imposed on me.

I wasn't talking about taking 8 shots gentlemen... just because one uses a shotgun at times, doesn't mean they just fill the air with lead and hope to hit something...

evidently you boys haven't used a shotgun deer hunting in a swamp before...

on the other hand...

if I had to pick out a firearm for dedicated use as a close cover rig....I have been looking at Whittakers Web Site...

and that Howa Mini Action in a 6.5 Grendel is looking awfully good.... handloads and a good 1.5 to 4 or 5 Shot Gun scope on top...


Of course in the past, in those Northern Swamps... the good old 444 Marlin with a 2.5 power Weaver on top did pretty good at bringing "home the bacon", errr vinison....

I routinely hunt in thick stuff. Where I spent the past weekend was like deer hunting on Guadalcanal, only drier and colder. My guns of choice in that situation have barrels ranging from 20" to 24"- the longer barrels posing no handicap whatsoever IMO. What I cherish more than the gun being short and quick handling in the traditional sense are sights that line up the instant the gun is mounted. I definitely think a scope in that situation, when shots are measured in feet not yards, is a minor handicap. Heck, even though I'm an advocate of aperture rear sights, I feel an old fashioned English-style "express" sight is better- something with a wide shallow V, coupled with a big honking gold bead front sight. Certainly not a sighting arrangement conducive to making those bug hole groups off the bench we like to talk about, but when the target is the size of a dinner plate and you only have a second to get on it and shoot, who cares.

For me the ideal is an aperture rear sight with its slide easily removable in the field (and returnable to dead nuts zero when re-installing)- which eliminates most of them other than the Lyman 48- or a fold down tang sight, or quick detachable scope system. All of which can be gotten out of the way in order to use the backup express sights out on the barrel whenever one ventures into the thick stuff.

Sometimes it's amazingly easy to hit things out to 75 yards with slugs from a good pump shotgun and just a bead.
Try it and see if it works for you.

The trouble with a SG is that your are limited to close range only, where a 308 (or similar) carbine will allow you to take a longer shot if it presents itself.

Think walking out of a thicket onto a powerline.

Paul, didn't have that opportunity or chance to walk out onto a power line when and where we hunted in Northern Minnesota and Northern Wisconsin...

100 yds was pretty much a long shot unless you happen to be going around a lake and saw a deer on the opposite side... but shooting across a water way was illegal....so we didn't do that either...

I figured it was an idle brush gun as it was handy, carried a big slug, was quick handling...I loved my 870 when I was in a swamp...

The can is of the over barrel type made of alloy. It's 8" long of which 4" is rear of the muzzle. The threading is right near the muzzle itself. After removing 2" off the 20" barrel there was enough room to thread the muzzle end for the can before the fluting began. The barrel length including the can is 22" in length so still manageable in heavy cover.

This guy makes the suppressors and does a brilliant job.
http://www.dpt.co.nz/category.php?id_category=5

.444 Marlin

If you are an experienced bowhunter, you won't have a problem killing a deer with any firearm. Just get one that's easy to carry and shoots where you aim it.

Evidently you don't know what you're talking about. Seriously? I've lived in MN or WI my entire life. Everything I've hunted is a swamp. Why do you think I've shot so many deer at 20yds and less? There is no situation where I would take a slug over a bullet unless the law called for it. ZERO!



Yes, much better than a slug.

I hunted in a shotgun zone every year for over 20 years. Killed several dozen deer with about a half dozen different slug guns in both 12 and 20 gauge, some smoothbore and some fully rifled. There are no hunting conditions or methods for which I'd choose a slug gun over a rifle.

Agreed.

We agree!

yes we do !

My best friends son from Iowa hunted in our Wisconsin camp this year. Where he hunts in Iowa it is shotgun only. I offered him my Ruger 77 7x57, but he declined as he killed a lot of Whitetails with his slug gun.

He shot this nice buck at just a tad over 100 yards.

That thing should be in a Museum with a wool rich suit and Donald Duck boots. to show the world what a Deer hunter circa 1974 in Pa, looked like.....
The Deluxe even with the nice basket weave and Mile view shiny finish, topped off with Williams "Under/Over" Mounts and a Jamesway or Kmart bubble pack Tasco.....
These things should be labeled "Penna Dutch Assault Rifles " as more the the Amish carry them..... I knew people that had a .30-06 for bear season and a .270 for deer season........

I have hunted with a slug gun for 30+ years due to the state I live in, 12 gauge, 20 gauge smooth bore/rifled bore. Killed a few deer with them when hunting on State land. I pray every year that our State DEP will pass a law that you can use a rifle, even if it has to be a straight walled case. If so, my shotgun would be gone as fast as I could. I would rather hunt with a rifle any day of the week. On State lands, a long shot is 100 yards and though the shotgun slugs are effective, its no rifle

Marlin 336 35 Rem !

I don't feel handicapped using my Browning Abolt rifled slug gun out to 175-200 yds 3" group at 200 yds

Next year I'm setting up a close range gun. I'm going to chop a 308 Montana to 19" and have it bored to 358 Win. Nothing wrong with 308 but I want the 358 Win,just because.

I'm going to mount this scope with the green triangle.
http://swfa.com/Trijicon-1-6x24-AccuPoint-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P82966.aspx

Why a rifle? You got plenty rifles, right?

How about a Slug Gun with a rifled barrel and integral scope mount? 12ga. Lots of slug choices, practically a new industry with specialty slugs out there. Then you got options for Buckshot as well and the shot does take some spin from the rifling for hold together patterning; but gotta pattern em for your own shooting.


Not much need for a rifle in deep woods; not for hunting game that ain't gonna be hunting you if you wound them...


Even more options for a handgun. A Ruger Super Redhawk with a scope or electronic sight is very fast and the DA trigger pull is really decent right outa the box. Can make it better, of course... But point is, my Casull delivers 2" groups (5 shot) at 75yds from offhand, non-rested position. Full power handloads. Good groups. You got both hands free for clambering through the brush, or dragging out your meat. The .454 Casull or bigger S&Ws will deliver rifle accuracy and give you faster response time. For shooting deer, you can go .44 special or .45 Colt. Also got the .44 Russian and .45 Schofield cases for plinking or small game. Very Versatile, and w/the integral scope bases, very reliable.

Got a handgun with 6" or better barrel? Maybe you're already set, just have to cast some heavy flatnose bullets and load em up!

George dont get me wrong, I have a Savage 220 right now that is as accurate as many rifles I have owned and do not feel handicapped in that regard, but again to me, its not a rifle. Give me a Marlin in 44mag or 444, 45-70 or a host of other big bore pistol rounds. Guns handle better, accurate and ammo is a lot cheaper than sabot slugs for practice

Another of my go to short range deer and hog guns is a Stag Arms AR carbine in 6.8. Tried not to like it because I really like old wood guns. But find myself grabbing quite often

Agreed hence my loving my .444

I guess my whole point was about flexibility. Sometimes you need it, most times you don't.

dvdegeorge, that .444 has grown on you, hasn't it?

I kinda like the big-bore thing too, having a .44 mag rifle and a .45-70.

Man that is a real nice deer!!

to each there own....

but I've had plenty of success with a slug gun in swamps...as I had no problem getting into the thick stuff...

but stating I don't know what I am talking about.... just because I've had success with a slug gun.. and evidently you haven't as you hammer you don't use one...

but you kinda enjoy disagreeing with anything I have to say anyway....so I'll give it the credence it deserves.

you're experiences don't negate the experiences I've had...

Another vote for the triple 4...265 gr Hornady's or one of my 310 gr cast do work in heavy cover but it's not politically correct on the CF to call it a brush gun.

I got a 444 I might part with, if anyone is interested. Dies, brass, loaded factory ammo.

I doubt I will ever hunt with it again.

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.44-40

I've had very good luck ambush style hunting with my RUGER 96 in 44 MAG.

Sherwood

I just started shooting a Rem 700 LTR in 6.8spc and it looks to me ( so far...) to be ideal out to 200 yards, and maybe a tad more. Only shot pigs with it so far, out to 160 yards.